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[Paula] I walk outside
and I see typography everywhere.
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New York City is a city of signs.
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Sometimes things written by hand,
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mismatched,
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hung up in some peculiar way.
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You think, "Oh my God, can I get up there
and please readjust that sign?
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That's just absolutely awful!"
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The way numbers are on doors.
No two the same down the block.
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All messages are different,
and they're everywhere.
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Typography is painting with words.
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That's my biggest high.
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It's my crack.
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[funky music playing]
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[Lupton] Paula Scher
is the goddess of graphic design.
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Her stuff is everywhere!
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[Bierut] Paula's been able to come up with
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more ways to make type talk
than anyone else,
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and to create a distinctive body of work
just with letters.
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[Paula] When I go to work every day,
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I feel like I'm navigating myself
through a maze.
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-Hey.
-[colleague] How are you?
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Look at this! A real type book!
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-Can you bring this to Courtney?
-[colleague] Yeah.
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[Paula] I sit nose to nose
with my partners.
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My team is on the fourth floor.
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I have to run up and down steps
to see them.
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I actually like this.
I think you should move 'em lower.
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It's very quick paced.
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You're seeing something
that looks like this.
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I'm solving things on scraps of paper.
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Starting something, getting interrupted...
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-[colleague] Paula?
-Yeah?
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The interruption is great.
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I like the way the icons
also interrelate with the thing.
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Pentagram is a design cooperative.
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There's the benefit of a large firm,
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but everybody gets to act
like they're an individual.
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There's no boss. Just friends.
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[Bierut] Pentagram's a supergroup
of the most famous designers in the world
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doing the best work in the world.
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It's like an all-star team, and Paula is
the indispensable player on that team.
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That one's my favorite so far.
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[Bierut] We all have
our own individual style,
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individual way of working.
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[Paula] I could never walk into an office
and sit down at my desk to design,
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I would accomplish nothing.
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I can sit down at my desk
to read my e-mail.
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You go through your junk mail...
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A lot of crap.
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You throw it all out,
you make a little order on your desk,
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and then you go, "Oh, my God,
how am I going to solve this problem?"
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Then, you walk up the stairs,
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go into the ladies' room,
put on your lipstick and figure it out.
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[colleague] It's...
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I love it like that. It's very slurpy.
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-Slurpy, yeah.
-Don't you think?
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Yeah, I like that.
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[Paula] Ideas can be triggered
by working with my team.
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[Paula] ...optical illusion.
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I see more than I would see
if I was just doing it all by myself.
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It's fantastic.
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I think that you have to make
"Girls" and "Boys" the same weight,
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with the exception of the pointy things.
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And then figure out
how the other type intersects.
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And then we gotta figure out color.
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We're working on the Summer Festival
posters for the Public Theater.
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They put on free Shakespeare
in Central Park every summer.
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So, like here it says,
Taming of the Shrew inside the wrap.
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You don't have to do that work
with the whole name.
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You're putting this
in a kind of lozenge shape.
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-I think it'll be cool.
-Yeah, it looks really fun.
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So, give it a shot!
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I've been designing
for the Public Theater since 1994.
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My first project was
creating an identity for the Theater.
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When they hired me,
they had a name issue.
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[Wolfe] One of the things
that was very challenging
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about the Public Theater,
it had multiple identities:
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it was the Public Theater,
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and then some people called it
the Joseph Papp Public Theater,
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and then there was
Shakespeare in Central Park.
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I wanted everything
to feel like it was of one.
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That it was breathing fully
as an institution.
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[Paula] It had to be populous.
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I knew it had to be New Yorkish,
meaning it had to be loud and proud.
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I was flipping through one of my books
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on American wood type.
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I like American wood type because
it's powerful, and it has many forms.
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On this particular page were these Rs,
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and they go back to the skinniest form
or to the widest form,
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and I realized I could make the word
"Public" in the same kind of weights,
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and it would symbolize all of New York.
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Every type of weight was included.
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You can create
an identity for a whole place
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based on a recognizability of type.
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[Wolfe] Paula's work pulled people in.
You instantly knew, "The Public."
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It's a language that could be dissected,
taken apart, put back together.
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That's one the things
I think is thrilling about it.
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[Paula] Typography can create
immense power.
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You're working with things
that create character.
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You're working with weight.
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You're working with height.
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If you take an E,
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and the middle bar is the same length
as the ends of the E's,
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it feels different than if the little bar
is half the length of the E's.
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If you lift the little bar up higher,
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it will make the typeface look
like it was drawn in the 1930s.
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The same thing as
if you drop the middle bar lower,
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it will look moderne.
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If a font is heavy and bold,
it may give you a feeling of immediacy.
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If a font is thin and has a serif form,
it may feel classical.
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So that, before you even read it,
you have sensibility and spirit.
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And that, if you combine that
with a meaning,
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then that's spectacular.
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When I did the High Line logo,
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the goal was to make it look more like
a railroad track than an H.
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If you take the kind of weight that
might make the line for a railroad track,
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and you put two horizontal bars across it,
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it begins to look fairly industrial.
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It totally changes the spirit
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without having to create
any kind of illustrative narrative.
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I used to paint my fonts by hand,
when I was a young designer,
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and I really miss it.
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When we became fully computerized
in the late '90s,
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I didn't touch anything
and I didn't use my hands.
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In the past, I cut things up,
I ripped things, I pasted things.
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I touched art supplies.
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That physical loss was huge for me,
and that's why I started painting.
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Uh-oh. That's Utah.
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I deliberately began painting the maps
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because they would take me
a long time to accomplish,
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in some very rote way,
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and that's actually everything
that went away.
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These dotted lines are the distances
between two given points
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and the background is the zip codes.
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It's not factual, it's emotional.
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Like Wyoming doesn't have
very many people in it,
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but you feel it instead of know it.
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I'm not making
something designed to answer questions,
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it's more a design to raise them.
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This painting is
counties and zip codes.
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Why do some little states
have a million counties,
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and some big states have very few?
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Now this one is a demographic map:
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average age of people,
racial and ethnic breakdowns.
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To actually have any sense of it,
you actually have to sit and read it.
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But, the information is
equivalently complicated and ridiculous.
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I used to make complicated,
nonsensical charts
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and diagrams that were satirical.
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Silly information. Fractured information.
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And I did it to make points.
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Then I started charting
things that were not chartable.
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Mostly denigrating
my own physical appearance.
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I find it funny.
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Sometimes they're pithy
and more meaningful,
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like all my numbers on my credit cards,
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just to show how many numbers
were attached to my name
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and they're
in some computer somewhere.
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Later, they became political.
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Or nonsensical.
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Ultimately, it turned into my paintings.
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That one has a period,
maybe they should have periods.
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[director] So Paula, these paintings,
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they seem to have
a little obsessional quality to them.
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Yeah, I think they're quite obsessive.
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It's the act of weaving little bits
of information to make a bigger thing.
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That's definitely stronger than that.
This one needs to be stronger over here.
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It started when I was very young.
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I had this very high IQ score in something
called quantitative reasoning.
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My family thought it was going to be Math,
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but it wasn't.
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It was the ability to synthesize a lot
of information
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and come to a conclusion.
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A self-portrait.
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And I was happiest
when I was making things.
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1956, orthopedic shoes,
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1959, developed a contempt
for Girl Scouts,
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1953, discovered I'm Jewish.
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Every hairdo I ever had:
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the Blunt Cut, the Sassoon, the Shag,
180
00:11:46,581 --> 00:11:49,876
the Summer Blonde, the Platinum Blonde,
the Streaked Blonde, the Reddish Blonde,
181
00:11:49,959 --> 00:11:51,169
and No Blonde.
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I didn't really fit in very well
in high school.
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I mean, I was
a person who went to art classes
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instead of going to the football games.
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There's something wrong with you
if you do that.
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00:12:04,933 --> 00:12:08,728
Then I was at the Tyler School of Art
studying Illustration,
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and I fell in love with typography
in a way I didn't expect to.
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I was influenced by contemporary culture.
189
00:12:17,278 --> 00:12:18,947
Zig-Zag rolling papers,
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00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:20,198
Zap comics,
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00:12:20,281 --> 00:12:23,743
underground newspapers
and magazines and record covers.
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Especially record covers.
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Those were the things
that I really wanted to do.
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They spoke to me.
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00:12:36,547 --> 00:12:40,301
I got a job designing record covers
at CBS Records in the '70s.
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I'd combine the illustration
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with typography that related
to the illustration or contrasted it.
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[Bierut] I first became aware of
Paula's name in high school in the '70s.
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00:12:55,483 --> 00:12:57,777
I'd spend three hours in a record store.
200
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I'd stand at those racks
and look at the covers.
201
00:13:00,488 --> 00:13:03,408
I'd be like, "Wow,
I really like the way that cover looks."
202
00:13:03,491 --> 00:13:06,619
I'd turn it over
and see Paula Scher's name,
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00:13:06,703 --> 00:13:07,745
over and over again.
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00:13:08,454 --> 00:13:12,375
[Paula] I was a kid with the best job
in New York City.
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00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:15,169
I had recording artists
and their managers,
206
00:13:15,253 --> 00:13:17,380
all these people
coming in and out of my office.
207
00:13:17,463 --> 00:13:20,133
And always trying
to keep these balls in the air
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to get them to agree to some design
and get it to come to fruition.
209
00:13:25,263 --> 00:13:26,973
And I just became very good at it.
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Big recording artists were the things
the company cared about the most.
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00:13:39,318 --> 00:13:44,198
So I would do pretty much what
the recording artists wanted me to do.
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00:13:44,282 --> 00:13:46,826
Like for example,
here on this Bruce Springsteen cover.
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00:13:46,909 --> 00:13:49,495
It was shot by a friend of his
who was a butcher,
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00:13:49,579 --> 00:13:51,956
and I put
this typewriter typography on it.
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00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,500
Cheap Trick was a little bit different.
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00:13:54,584 --> 00:13:58,463
They weren't as big as Bruce Springsteen,
so I had a bit more control.
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00:13:59,047 --> 00:14:02,175
With jazz artists,
they got to be a little artier.
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00:14:02,258 --> 00:14:06,429
Like, this is a series of covers I did
for Bob James's label,
219
00:14:06,512 --> 00:14:07,764
Tappan Zee Records,
220
00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:12,393
and they were all single objects
that were blown up out of scale.
221
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My favorite was always this matchbook.
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00:14:16,105 --> 00:14:19,025
And then, of course,
the monster illustration, Boston.
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Six million copies, I think,
in the first month of sales.
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It was quite something.
225
00:14:26,783 --> 00:14:30,370
They wanted it to be something futuristic,
226
00:14:30,453 --> 00:14:34,999
so we came up with this half-baked idea
that the Earth was blowing up
227
00:14:35,333 --> 00:14:38,169
and all these spaceships were escaping.
228
00:14:38,252 --> 00:14:40,171
Guitar-shaped spaceships.
229
00:14:40,254 --> 00:14:43,132
And they left the planet Earth
and went up in the heavens.
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[Boston's "More Than A Feeling" playing]
231
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♪ When I hear that old song
They used to play ♪
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00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:51,599
[song stops abruptly]
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00:14:51,682 --> 00:14:53,976
The Boston cover is dumb.
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00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:00,191
I am still mystified by how something
like that really resonates in culture.
235
00:15:00,274 --> 00:15:02,193
I mean, it predated Star Wars.
236
00:15:02,276 --> 00:15:06,155
So we must have hit a zeitgeist
that was about to happen.
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00:15:06,239 --> 00:15:10,535
But when I die, it will say,
"Designed the Boston cover,"
238
00:15:10,618 --> 00:15:13,371
and I've lived
with this horror ever since,
239
00:15:13,454 --> 00:15:15,581
and I think it may wind up being true.
240
00:15:16,290 --> 00:15:21,295
However, if nobody cared about the album,
that's where I did typography.
241
00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:25,716
And that was what I liked doing most
because I was the artist,
242
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,762
I was the one that controlled
what these things looked like.
243
00:15:29,846 --> 00:15:32,098
So, Charles Mingus, One and Two,
244
00:15:32,181 --> 00:15:34,225
and he didn't care what was on the cover.
245
00:15:34,308 --> 00:15:38,479
This was a reissue of a whole pile
of Yardbird songs,
246
00:15:38,563 --> 00:15:41,566
and these things
I really, really loved making.
247
00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:46,821
Over a period of four or five years,
248
00:15:47,321 --> 00:15:50,366
the typography came forward
and the images moved to the background.
249
00:15:51,909 --> 00:15:54,036
I had made this radical shift
250
00:15:54,537 --> 00:15:58,291
and developed the way I would work
for the next 30 years.
251
00:15:59,584 --> 00:16:03,713
I'd learned so much about typography,
and became known for it.
252
00:16:11,929 --> 00:16:16,559
[Lupton] Paula was always
part of popular culture,
253
00:16:16,642 --> 00:16:21,689
but bringing a unique
graphic design voice to that,
254
00:16:21,772 --> 00:16:25,651
very much embodied
in her use of typography.
255
00:16:28,029 --> 00:16:30,490
[Paula] Ideas come all kinds of ways.
256
00:16:32,033 --> 00:16:35,828
I get my best ideas in taxicabs, you know,
like sitting in traffic, drooling.
257
00:16:40,291 --> 00:16:43,002
I'm allowing my subconscious to take over,
258
00:16:45,213 --> 00:16:47,632
so that I can free associate.
259
00:16:50,134 --> 00:16:52,011
You have to be
in a state of play to design.
260
00:16:52,512 --> 00:16:55,306
If you're not in a state of play,
you can't make anything.
261
00:17:07,985 --> 00:17:10,488
It should really start
like almost with that bar,
262
00:17:10,571 --> 00:17:13,115
like if you drop it down
about a sixteenth of an inch
263
00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:16,410
and then, when you put "Pier"
on the end of it, it's really nice.
264
00:17:16,494 --> 00:17:17,495
Mm-hmm.
265
00:17:17,578 --> 00:17:20,456
This is an identity for Pier 55,
266
00:17:20,540 --> 00:17:24,252
which is the park they're building
in the Hudson River.
267
00:17:24,335 --> 00:17:27,463
It is going to have three theaters on it,
268
00:17:27,547 --> 00:17:30,925
and the theaters are going to be
outdoor festival spaces.
269
00:17:31,425 --> 00:17:33,219
We started working with these fives
270
00:17:33,302 --> 00:17:36,430
and some of the fives are just made up
of geometric shapes
271
00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:38,933
that come from the park itself.
272
00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:43,104
For example, the forms come from
the amphitheater
273
00:17:43,187 --> 00:17:45,773
and then they create the 55s.
274
00:17:46,357 --> 00:17:51,028
This notion actually came from the fact
that the park sits up on these pillars.
275
00:17:51,112 --> 00:17:52,738
So these are the original sketches.
276
00:17:52,822 --> 00:17:53,823
Somewhere I knew
277
00:17:53,906 --> 00:17:57,159
that I wanted this thing to feel
like it was on water or underwater.
278
00:17:57,243 --> 00:18:00,079
Built these platforms
that this island's sitting on.
279
00:18:00,162 --> 00:18:02,665
This is actually a more literal
translation of them here.
280
00:18:02,748 --> 00:18:05,543
And then it started to abstract
and become open.
281
00:18:07,044 --> 00:18:08,254
These are really good sketches.
282
00:18:08,337 --> 00:18:09,547
[director chuckling]
283
00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:14,969
Mostly what I design are identity systems.
284
00:18:18,931 --> 00:18:21,892
They have to exist in lots, and lots,
and lots of ways.
285
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:29,442
I generally try to want to push something
as far as it can be pushed.
286
00:18:31,402 --> 00:18:33,154
For me, that's the fun.
287
00:18:41,662 --> 00:18:45,416
I've started trying to create
a process in the identities that I make,
288
00:18:45,499 --> 00:18:47,585
where I go back and revisit them
in five or ten years,
289
00:18:47,668 --> 00:18:49,337
'cause sometimes they need tweaking.
290
00:18:51,047 --> 00:18:52,965
It's hard to make that a guess,
291
00:18:53,049 --> 00:18:56,385
and so you want to design something
that can be adapted to its time.
292
00:18:58,888 --> 00:19:02,350
I've redesigned the Public Theater logo
three times, and nobody even knows it.
293
00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:05,728
I've tightened it up, moved it apart,
changed the font.
294
00:19:07,021 --> 00:19:09,982
I've had, like, a love affair
with the Public Theater.
295
00:19:12,443 --> 00:19:15,696
When Paula did
Bring in 'da Noise, Bring in 'da Funk,
296
00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:22,119
it really signaled a paradigm shift,
a new moment for the Public Theater.
297
00:19:22,203 --> 00:19:23,537
[tapping]
298
00:19:27,291 --> 00:19:28,292
And I think what Paula did
299
00:19:28,376 --> 00:19:32,213
was she figured out a way,
how to take what she saw on the stage
300
00:19:32,296 --> 00:19:34,548
and turn it into ink on paper.
301
00:19:34,632 --> 00:19:37,218
[tapping becomes faster]
302
00:19:37,301 --> 00:19:41,514
The type in those posters,
from top to bottom, filled with words.
303
00:19:41,597 --> 00:19:45,476
It's crazy, it's in your face,
it's just like New York!
304
00:19:51,607 --> 00:19:53,609
[Wolfe] Noise Funk was everywhere.
305
00:19:54,193 --> 00:19:56,987
It was aggressive, it was urban,
306
00:19:57,071 --> 00:19:59,365
it was elegant, it was evocative.
307
00:19:59,448 --> 00:20:02,493
And the Tony Award for Best Direction
of a Musical goes to....
308
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,121
Bring in 'da Noise, Bring in 'da Funk!
309
00:20:05,204 --> 00:20:06,497
[cheering, applause]
310
00:20:07,164 --> 00:20:10,459
Bring in 'da Noise, Bring in 'da Funk
really, really put her on the map.
311
00:20:12,253 --> 00:20:17,049
It was everywhere, and it was, like,
"Holy Shit! This is really good."
312
00:20:20,344 --> 00:20:22,805
[Paula] It was awful because everybody
began imitating it.
313
00:20:23,389 --> 00:20:26,225
It was like New York City ate
the Public Theater's identity.
314
00:20:26,308 --> 00:20:30,438
Literally, in a matter of three
to five years, it became the standard.
315
00:20:30,521 --> 00:20:31,897
It just made her crazy.
316
00:20:31,981 --> 00:20:36,610
She would be ranting around the office,
saying, "Can you believe they did this?"
317
00:20:36,694 --> 00:20:37,653
[laughs]
318
00:20:37,737 --> 00:20:43,451
I had to change the theater to...
not make it only that kind of typography.
319
00:20:44,744 --> 00:20:49,665
I remember I made these very dark posters
that had serif typography,
320
00:20:49,749 --> 00:20:52,460
just to do something opposite
to what I had done before.
321
00:20:52,543 --> 00:20:55,838
And I showed them to George Wolfe,
and I was turning 50 at the time,
322
00:20:55,921 --> 00:20:58,090
and he said, "Okay, Paula is turning 50.
323
00:20:58,174 --> 00:21:00,718
Let's have a year
of depressing posters." [laughs]
324
00:21:00,801 --> 00:21:02,428
[laughs]
325
00:21:02,511 --> 00:21:04,722
I'm not sure... Did I say that?
326
00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:08,017
She said I said that,
that's just framed bad.
327
00:21:11,812 --> 00:21:13,355
Okay, we're having soup.
328
00:21:14,148 --> 00:21:15,149
Soup with avocado.
329
00:21:15,232 --> 00:21:16,233
[dog whines]
330
00:21:16,317 --> 00:21:17,485
[both] Go away, Mimi!
331
00:21:17,568 --> 00:21:19,737
-Watch it.
-[Paula] This is not for you.
332
00:21:22,490 --> 00:21:23,491
It's bean soup.
333
00:21:23,574 --> 00:21:25,659
[Seymour]
Oh, a different design this time.
334
00:21:25,743 --> 00:21:27,453
Yeah, I put an extra country in.
335
00:21:27,536 --> 00:21:29,747
Things aren't going so well in Spain.
336
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:32,082
-What, the economy?
-You can tell, look!
337
00:21:32,166 --> 00:21:33,000
Oh! [laughs]
338
00:21:33,083 --> 00:21:35,503
I thought you were telling me
actual real news.
339
00:21:36,462 --> 00:21:40,049
Good doggy!
She's been amazingly well behaved.
340
00:21:40,132 --> 00:21:42,968
Yeah, except for me who she attacks.
341
00:21:43,052 --> 00:21:43,886
[both laughing]
342
00:21:43,969 --> 00:21:46,430
The dog loves Paula and hates me.
343
00:21:47,723 --> 00:21:51,060
That's not true. Mimi really likes
Seymour, but she jumps at him.
344
00:21:51,143 --> 00:21:53,437
-She hugs me.
-Hugs you and she jumps on me.
345
00:21:53,521 --> 00:21:54,980
And she jumps and bites him.
346
00:21:56,816 --> 00:21:59,068
I learned how to pronounce
Seymour's last name in school.
347
00:21:59,151 --> 00:22:02,780
I thought it was funny.
I thought it was a funny-sounding name.
348
00:22:02,863 --> 00:22:05,282
Was it "Schwost," is it "Kwost"?
All of that.
349
00:22:05,366 --> 00:22:07,743
But I thought "Seymour"
was worse than "Kwost."
350
00:22:09,537 --> 00:22:12,873
[Lupton] The whole love story
between Paula and Seymour,
351
00:22:12,957 --> 00:22:16,836
that's our Elizabeth Taylor
and Richard Burton tale.
352
00:22:16,919 --> 00:22:19,171
Graphic designers love that story.
353
00:22:20,172 --> 00:22:23,300
[Paula] Seymour was my design hero
when I was in art school.
354
00:22:23,551 --> 00:22:26,679
He must have been 39, 40? I was 21.
355
00:22:27,888 --> 00:22:31,517
Seymour was an illustrator,
but he's a sensational designer.
356
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,521
I thought his work was very funny.
Some of it was exceedingly political.
357
00:22:36,438 --> 00:22:40,484
In the late '50s,
Seymour founded Push Pin Studios
358
00:22:40,568 --> 00:22:43,904
with Milton Glaser and Ed Sorel.
359
00:22:43,988 --> 00:22:47,783
They developed
a style of design and illustration
360
00:22:47,866 --> 00:22:53,372
that combined pop colors,
wit and intellectual thinking.
361
00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:59,879
It's where I really started to understand
that type had spirit
362
00:23:00,379 --> 00:23:04,883
and did not have to be some clean,
mechanical-like thing
363
00:23:04,967 --> 00:23:07,011
that was simply doing its job.
364
00:23:07,094 --> 00:23:10,180
It could be this marvelous thing
to engage with.
365
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:16,604
Seymour has the studio above me.
366
00:23:17,187 --> 00:23:19,273
It's a bigger studio,
and he makes more paintings.
367
00:23:20,065 --> 00:23:23,152
He can wake up
and always seem to be able to work.
368
00:23:23,736 --> 00:23:26,697
[director] You guys are kind of historic
as a couple.
369
00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:29,783
Well, that may be,
but we don't really work together.
370
00:23:29,867 --> 00:23:31,285
That was actually my first question.
371
00:23:31,368 --> 00:23:33,537
-Never.
-Never. We can't collaborate.
372
00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:39,835
Washington looks a little pale.
373
00:23:40,919 --> 00:23:45,299
Well, it'll look more vibrant
when it gets a WA on it.
374
00:23:46,216 --> 00:23:47,426
I don't think so.
375
00:23:48,010 --> 00:23:49,553
[Paula] We can't collaborate.
376
00:23:49,637 --> 00:23:52,431
He can't work on my stuff
and I can't work on his stuff.
377
00:23:52,514 --> 00:23:54,767
I don't want to. [laughs]
378
00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:56,185
That's why we're not apart.
379
00:23:56,268 --> 00:23:57,436
[laughs] There you are.
380
00:23:59,772 --> 00:24:02,524
-[Seymour] Throw a good one this time.
-[Paula] Okay.
381
00:24:03,776 --> 00:24:04,610
[sighs]
382
00:24:04,693 --> 00:24:06,362
I love leaving New York City.
383
00:24:06,445 --> 00:24:07,488
You jinxed it.
384
00:24:08,238 --> 00:24:09,823
Okay, here we go.
385
00:24:10,866 --> 00:24:14,203
But I couldn't stay out of town that long,
I have to come back to town.
386
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:16,538
[both] Yay!
387
00:24:16,622 --> 00:24:18,582
Otherwise, I won't have any ideas.
388
00:24:19,249 --> 00:24:21,502
[traffic]
389
00:24:26,465 --> 00:24:29,009
When I started designing
environmental graphics,
390
00:24:29,093 --> 00:24:31,303
it let me design in the physical world
391
00:24:31,387 --> 00:24:35,099
and that was at a time when the most
interesting design had become digital.
392
00:24:35,975 --> 00:24:42,940
I was making large-scale lettering
on buildings to create a sense of place,
393
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,485
as well as to get somebody
to navigate their way through it.
394
00:24:49,905 --> 00:24:54,952
Design exists beyond screens.
It has an impact in real life.
395
00:24:55,995 --> 00:24:58,497
[indistinct shouting]
396
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,210
After Hurricane Sandy,
397
00:25:04,378 --> 00:25:08,882
the whole economy of Rockaway Beach
was devastated.
398
00:25:09,550 --> 00:25:14,096
The boardwalk was destroyed
and the beach was fenced off.
399
00:25:14,805 --> 00:25:19,017
So I was hired to create what I'd call
an emotional sign system.
400
00:25:22,062 --> 00:25:25,482
Beaches like the Rockaways invoke
a memory of a bygone era
401
00:25:25,566 --> 00:25:27,651
of wooden boardwalks and rollercoasters.
402
00:25:28,819 --> 00:25:31,196
It had to be
brought into the 21st century.
403
00:25:32,781 --> 00:25:34,783
While the boardwalks were destroyed,
404
00:25:34,867 --> 00:25:37,703
what the neighborhood still had
were the beaches.
405
00:25:37,786 --> 00:25:42,833
And that the beach looked unique
from every place that you entered it.
406
00:25:42,916 --> 00:25:46,587
If you entered it at 96th Street,
it looked different from 101st Street,
407
00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:48,338
because the view is different.
408
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,551
We created these large standing posters
with photographs
409
00:25:52,634 --> 00:25:55,846
that would help orient people
once they reached the beach.
410
00:25:56,346 --> 00:25:58,807
They helped emotionally connect
the community,
411
00:25:58,891 --> 00:26:00,893
while functioning as directional signage.
412
00:26:01,935 --> 00:26:03,937
There was so much pride from the signs
413
00:26:04,021 --> 00:26:07,274
that the city government made
this series of postcards
414
00:26:07,357 --> 00:26:10,527
so every town could have
their own picture of their own beach.
415
00:26:10,903 --> 00:26:13,489
You're getting your own icon,
your own logo,
416
00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:15,240
and it would give them identity.
417
00:26:18,327 --> 00:26:20,412
There's an emotional aspect to it.
418
00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:24,124
Design needs to take human behavior
into account.
419
00:26:26,877 --> 00:26:30,881
[people chanting]
Re-vote! Re-vote! Re-vote!
420
00:26:30,964 --> 00:26:35,177
[Paula] An example of terrible design
would be the Palm Beach Ballot of 2001.
421
00:26:39,014 --> 00:26:42,184
I actually did an article
on the Op-Ed page of the New York Times
422
00:26:42,267 --> 00:26:46,104
where I made a little diagram that showed
why the ballot design was wrong.
423
00:26:49,525 --> 00:26:52,736
[man on TV] For the woman who designed
Palm Beach County, Florida's ballot,
424
00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:53,904
life has changed.
425
00:26:53,987 --> 00:26:55,197
I keep thinking it's a nightmare
426
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,741
and I'm going to wake up one day,
and it's gonna be gone.
427
00:26:59,326 --> 00:27:01,286
[Paula] It was a butterfly ballot.
428
00:27:02,204 --> 00:27:05,874
The list of the names broken
into two columns.
429
00:27:06,375 --> 00:27:09,878
The designer could not make
one long vertical list
430
00:27:09,962 --> 00:27:12,089
because the names would be too small,
431
00:27:12,172 --> 00:27:15,509
and in the area of Palm Beach County,
there are a lot of elderly people,
432
00:27:15,592 --> 00:27:17,469
and they wouldn't be able
to read small text.
433
00:27:18,262 --> 00:27:20,889
So she thought she was doing a service.
434
00:27:21,765 --> 00:27:26,562
In the first column, George Bush was first
and Al Gore was second.
435
00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:29,148
And then on the other side
was Pat Buchanan.
436
00:27:29,231 --> 00:27:32,609
She had the holes that you punched
in the center,
437
00:27:33,193 --> 00:27:36,155
except for the holes weren't
where you thought they were going to be.
438
00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:42,035
You assume that if the first hole
belonged to George Bush,
439
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,497
that the second hole, right below it,
would belong to Al Gore.
440
00:27:46,081 --> 00:27:50,669
But in fact, it belonged to Pat Buchanan,
because the holes were staggered.
441
00:27:51,003 --> 00:27:53,172
So in Palm Beach County,
442
00:27:53,255 --> 00:27:55,883
one of the biggest
Jewish residences in the world,
443
00:27:55,966 --> 00:27:59,261
a big part of the population
voted for an anti-Semite.
444
00:27:59,344 --> 00:28:01,054
I can't go back and say,
445
00:28:01,138 --> 00:28:04,016
"Well, you know, if I would have done
something else differently,
446
00:28:04,099 --> 00:28:06,393
maybe the election
would have been different,"
447
00:28:06,476 --> 00:28:08,520
because you don't know.
448
00:28:08,604 --> 00:28:10,939
Absolutely.
Graphic Design threw an election.
449
00:28:20,824 --> 00:28:24,369
Right now, because I'm trying
to make an exhibit opening,
450
00:28:24,912 --> 00:28:26,538
I'm working really intensely.
451
00:28:26,622 --> 00:28:31,084
Like, I'll typically start
around nine in the morning,
452
00:28:31,168 --> 00:28:33,754
and I can work till midnight
or one or two in the morning.
453
00:28:38,175 --> 00:28:41,803
I used to paint to jazz
and I got sick of all my records.
454
00:28:41,887 --> 00:28:45,432
So then I started playing
old movies on television.
455
00:28:45,515 --> 00:28:49,269
I can do the dialogue right along with it.
It's sort of like singing while you work.
456
00:28:49,853 --> 00:28:51,480
[TV and Paula]
"When a man's partner's killed,
457
00:28:51,563 --> 00:28:53,690
he's supposed to do something about it."
458
00:28:54,441 --> 00:28:57,236
All About Eve. Fantastic!
459
00:28:57,819 --> 00:29:01,949
[TV and Paula] "Fasten your seat belts,
it's going to be a bumpy night."
460
00:29:03,033 --> 00:29:05,661
The Women, that's really good,
it's really good.
461
00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:06,912
Really good dialogue.
462
00:29:07,496 --> 00:29:09,331
When anything I wear
doesn't please Steven...
463
00:29:09,414 --> 00:29:11,166
[TV and Paula] "... I take it off!"
464
00:29:14,461 --> 00:29:16,838
There were no artist models in my family.
465
00:29:17,714 --> 00:29:20,425
The family was very well educated.
466
00:29:20,509 --> 00:29:22,511
All the women were schoolteachers.
467
00:29:23,345 --> 00:29:26,348
And my father was actually a mapmaker.
468
00:29:29,434 --> 00:29:34,106
He invented a measuring device
so that maps would be more accurate.
469
00:29:37,859 --> 00:29:42,698
When I was a little girl,
he taught me that maps were distorted,
470
00:29:42,781 --> 00:29:45,867
that they never accurately depict a place.
471
00:29:48,954 --> 00:29:54,334
My father actually thought art was stupid
and serious people became engineers.
472
00:30:02,175 --> 00:30:04,928
[upbeat piano music playing]
473
00:30:25,073 --> 00:30:29,536
[Lupton] Paula has created
a typographic language
474
00:30:29,619 --> 00:30:36,460
that is popular, it's American,
it's New York,
475
00:30:36,543 --> 00:30:38,837
that makes sense to people.
476
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,590
And it's part of everyday life.
477
00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:46,428
It's not an art form that is
in some other place.
478
00:30:47,137 --> 00:30:51,683
It's in the street,
it's on the shelf at the supermarket.
479
00:30:51,767 --> 00:30:57,522
Paula is the most influential
woman graphic designer on the planet.
480
00:30:59,274 --> 00:31:02,069
[Paula] I never thought about myself
as a feminist.
481
00:31:03,278 --> 00:31:06,073
Yet, when I was working
at CBS Records in the '70s,
482
00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:10,077
women in the design business
at that time were agents, they were reps.
483
00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:14,539
You'd sit there and think, "Oh, my God,
what are they going to do with me?
484
00:31:14,623 --> 00:31:16,041
What am I going to do with them?"
485
00:31:18,085 --> 00:31:20,879
It's quite wild when you see it firsthand.
486
00:31:20,962 --> 00:31:24,299
All of a sudden, you turn around
and you go, "Oh, my God, that was sexism!"
487
00:31:24,383 --> 00:31:25,634
You know, there it is.
488
00:31:25,717 --> 00:31:29,096
And it's like any other -ism.
489
00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:35,936
If I'm sitting with a new client,
I can see in the first glance
490
00:31:36,019 --> 00:31:38,397
that he's wondering
why he's got this old lady.
491
00:31:41,233 --> 00:31:44,986
I mean, I just thought,
"I'm a designer. Look at it."
492
00:31:47,531 --> 00:31:51,118
Hi! Nice to meet you on the phone.
493
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:55,205
I got your materials
that I've been looking at.
494
00:31:55,705 --> 00:31:58,250
What are you looking to do now?
495
00:31:59,918 --> 00:32:04,089
I have an overall plan
about how I'd approach work.
496
00:32:04,172 --> 00:32:07,217
Some of it is strategic
and some of it is intuitive.
497
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:10,637
Are you promoting the institution
or are you promoting the show?
498
00:32:11,388 --> 00:32:15,475
The strategic part
is absorbing information from the client.
499
00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:18,103
How many plays do you put on in a season?
500
00:32:19,271 --> 00:32:23,150
And do you have other kinds of festivals,
or smaller programs,
501
00:32:23,233 --> 00:32:25,152
or things like under the radar, or...?
502
00:32:26,403 --> 00:32:29,823
I want to understand
why they look the way they look.
503
00:32:30,323 --> 00:32:33,702
What's interesting is you seem,
from what I see here,
504
00:32:33,785 --> 00:32:36,413
to be a little bit all over the map.
505
00:32:36,496 --> 00:32:39,332
I think you should develop
a visual language.
506
00:32:39,416 --> 00:32:41,751
That's what we did
with The Public and Atlantic.
507
00:32:41,835 --> 00:32:43,795
You don't need
to see the logo to know what it is.
508
00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:49,718
You should be as powerful,
visible, understandable,
509
00:32:49,801 --> 00:32:52,095
recognizable as anything in town.
510
00:32:54,556 --> 00:32:56,641
You're not changing somebody.
511
00:32:56,725 --> 00:33:00,270
You're making them a more perfect vision
of where they started.
512
00:33:00,353 --> 00:33:03,982
So the job is to traverse
these different roads
513
00:33:04,065 --> 00:33:06,568
and try to get either an individual,
a group of people,
514
00:33:06,651 --> 00:33:09,488
or a whole corporation to be able to see.
515
00:33:09,988 --> 00:33:11,823
[applause]
516
00:33:14,201 --> 00:33:20,916
[Paula] In 1998, Citibank was merging
with Travelers Insurance Company.
517
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:25,212
They wanted a logo
that reflected the merger
518
00:33:25,295 --> 00:33:27,631
and they wanted to launch it
in the newspaper
519
00:33:27,714 --> 00:33:30,258
three weeks after hiring us to do it.
520
00:33:30,842 --> 00:33:33,220
Travelers Insurance Company
had a red umbrella.
521
00:33:33,303 --> 00:33:37,182
Citibank had type
that was in italic form.
522
00:33:37,641 --> 00:33:40,560
It took only a moment of time
to design the logo.
523
00:33:41,144 --> 00:33:42,062
There's a T.
524
00:33:42,145 --> 00:33:45,690
The bottom of a lowercase T
has a little hook on the bottom.
525
00:33:45,774 --> 00:33:46,900
It's a straight line.
526
00:33:46,983 --> 00:33:50,153
If you put an arc on the top,
that's an umbrella.
527
00:33:50,237 --> 00:33:51,780
There are two Is in Citi.
528
00:33:51,863 --> 00:33:54,616
It means the edge of the arc
can line up with the two Is.
529
00:33:55,325 --> 00:33:58,245
There were a million meetings
trying to get by 'em.
530
00:33:58,328 --> 00:34:00,247
"What if you do it this way, or that way?
531
00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:02,541
Show it to me on stationery,
show it to me on a card.
532
00:34:02,624 --> 00:34:04,918
It's got to be red on top
and blue on the bottom.
533
00:34:05,001 --> 00:34:07,796
What do you do with the blue wave?
Is it something you use in retail?
534
00:34:07,879 --> 00:34:09,798
What if you put that
back on the credit card?"
535
00:34:09,881 --> 00:34:12,801
Those were all the things
that were being worked out
536
00:34:12,884 --> 00:34:15,679
for nearly, I think, two years
before the thing launched.
537
00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:21,977
The design of the logo is never really
the hard part of the job.
538
00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:24,229
It's persuading
a million people to use it.
539
00:34:33,572 --> 00:34:35,824
So this is a diagram of a meeting.
540
00:34:36,491 --> 00:34:38,451
You are giving a presentation.
541
00:34:39,494 --> 00:34:45,208
This line is the line of the reasonable
level of expectation that everyone has
542
00:34:45,292 --> 00:34:47,210
when you walk into the room.
543
00:34:47,294 --> 00:34:51,381
I got to say that, to my surprise,
I very much like the black and white.
544
00:34:52,299 --> 00:34:53,592
[Paula] You begin to present,
545
00:34:54,551 --> 00:34:57,345
and you come above
the reasonable level of expectation.
546
00:34:57,429 --> 00:35:01,600
Everybody gets enthusiastic,
people begin to start asking questions.
547
00:35:01,683 --> 00:35:07,731
...a whole extra outline, right?
The others only have three.
548
00:35:07,814 --> 00:35:09,608
And about right here,
549
00:35:09,691 --> 00:35:12,402
you've reached the height
of the appreciation
550
00:35:12,485 --> 00:35:14,904
that you're gonna get
for this presentation.
551
00:35:15,447 --> 00:35:19,075
You will be putting them
on top of images where they create labels.
552
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:22,203
So it's like a label
smacked over a photograph.
553
00:35:22,579 --> 00:35:26,082
That's the... And we have...
The buses are behind you.
554
00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:28,418
And at this point,
555
00:35:29,377 --> 00:35:32,589
somebody's going to make
a rebuttal to your presentation.
556
00:35:32,672 --> 00:35:39,638
The contrast between the two
is more fun for me here than it is here,
557
00:35:39,721 --> 00:35:42,849
because it's just...
I feel the separation more.
558
00:35:42,932 --> 00:35:45,685
This, I kind of don't notice the contrast.
559
00:35:46,144 --> 00:35:49,731
[Paula] You're going to sink a little bit
below that line of expectation.
560
00:35:50,357 --> 00:35:53,318
You grab it back
and you make some concessions.
561
00:35:53,401 --> 00:35:56,529
You know,
I may have to pull this down a bit.
562
00:35:56,613 --> 00:35:58,782
Maybe it just has to touch it.
563
00:35:58,865 --> 00:36:02,118
The thing is that the horizontal read
is always better.
564
00:36:02,202 --> 00:36:05,789
Yes, see these are great,
the horizontal pops. I love that.
565
00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:08,625
[Paula] And you get up to about here.
566
00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:12,712
And at this point, this is as high
as you're ever gonna get.
567
00:36:13,838 --> 00:36:16,716
It's not as high as here, but it's good.
568
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,718
Will this actually play in this color?
569
00:36:19,552 --> 00:36:22,013
-[Paula] What, you don't think--
-I mean, I love it.
570
00:36:22,097 --> 00:36:23,807
But I'm worried
you're going to change it
571
00:36:23,890 --> 00:36:25,225
when you actually do it.
572
00:36:25,308 --> 00:36:26,559
No, I wanted that.
573
00:36:26,643 --> 00:36:29,688
Just to say, that's the thing
I'm most concerned about.
574
00:36:29,771 --> 00:36:31,648
I just think it needs to be larger.
575
00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:33,525
The meeting must end here,
576
00:36:33,608 --> 00:36:36,861
because what will happen
is a counter-rebuttal to your offer,
577
00:36:36,945 --> 00:36:40,490
it will go down
below the reasonable level of expectation,
578
00:36:40,573 --> 00:36:43,076
and then come back only nearly above it
579
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:46,579
and will continue on,
until you reach sudden death.
580
00:36:47,872 --> 00:36:51,418
They want proof that this is really,
really gonna work.
581
00:36:51,793 --> 00:36:53,753
The problem is there isn't proof.
582
00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:57,674
It's how do people see and perceive
and accept things.
583
00:36:58,299 --> 00:37:01,261
I feel like, as usual,
once I sit with them for a while,
584
00:37:01,344 --> 00:37:04,973
they really start to shout
in a very specific way
585
00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:07,517
and it just feels like, of course,
this is The Public.
586
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,687
Of course, it's grabbing the attention
that Shakespeare in the Park always does.
587
00:37:10,770 --> 00:37:12,522
-I think they're awesome.
-Fantastic.
588
00:37:12,605 --> 00:37:14,190
It's going to be a black summer.
589
00:37:14,274 --> 00:37:15,275
[laughter]
590
00:37:16,276 --> 00:37:17,902
-All right. Bye.
-Good to see you.
591
00:37:18,445 --> 00:37:20,655
-Terrific. Good work. Thank you.
-Thanks.
592
00:37:21,698 --> 00:37:23,241
-[Patrick] Perfect.
-Thank you.
593
00:37:33,084 --> 00:37:35,545
[Paula] I notice it more and more
as I get older.
594
00:37:36,212 --> 00:37:40,258
How important
the act of making stuff is to me.
595
00:37:45,096 --> 00:37:49,642
My father saw two of the paintings I did
before he died.
596
00:37:51,102 --> 00:37:52,812
I was sort of embarrassed to show him,
597
00:37:52,896 --> 00:37:55,023
because, of course,
it's totally inaccurate.
598
00:37:56,483 --> 00:37:58,401
And I brought him in
and showed him the map
599
00:37:58,485 --> 00:38:00,653
and I said, "I guess you think I'm crazy,"
600
00:38:00,737 --> 00:38:03,907
and he said,
"No, I never did anything that creative."
601
00:38:08,745 --> 00:38:10,830
[funky music playing]
602
00:38:24,969 --> 00:38:27,764
There's a moment, and it's in every job.
603
00:38:27,847 --> 00:38:30,642
It's like this incredible elation
and high.
604
00:38:35,605 --> 00:38:37,649
It's like we made magic for a moment.
605
00:38:55,583 --> 00:38:59,003
-How you doing, sweetheart?
-I'm standing! My feet don't hurt yet.
606
00:39:01,172 --> 00:39:02,966
[Bierut] Paula's inexhaustible.
607
00:39:04,425 --> 00:39:07,679
Forty-plus years of continuous effort.
608
00:39:08,721 --> 00:39:10,765
There's a virtuosity to that.
609
00:39:22,569 --> 00:39:25,905
[Paula] I'm driven by the hope
that I haven't made my best work yet.
610
00:39:29,701 --> 00:39:31,703
Making stuff is the heart of everything.
611
00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:38,167
That drive never goes away.
612
00:39:39,210 --> 00:39:40,712
What can I make next?
613
00:39:42,714 --> 00:39:45,675
[upbeat music playing]