1
00:00:29,131 --> 00:00:31,599
It's 1979.
2
00:00:31,601 --> 00:00:33,400
I'm 20 years old.
3
00:00:33,402 --> 00:00:35,769
I get an assignment from
Newsweek magazine
4
00:00:35,771 --> 00:00:37,204
to photograph this author.
5
00:00:37,206 --> 00:00:38,606
I'm like, "great, great",
6
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and they're like, "It's not
quite that easy this time, Mike,
7
00:00:41,811 --> 00:00:44,078
because he doesn't like
to be photographed.
8
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,147
We don't have an address
to send you to
9
00:00:46,149 --> 00:00:48,015
or a telephone number
to give you,
10
00:00:48,017 --> 00:00:50,618
but we do know he picks up
his mail in Windsor, Vermont."
11
00:00:50,620 --> 00:00:53,921
So, the first day after sitting
here for four hours,
12
00:00:53,923 --> 00:00:56,223
drinking Pepsi and
eating Cheetos,
13
00:00:56,225 --> 00:00:58,659
making myself sick...
14
00:00:58,661 --> 00:01:00,628
didn't have him.
15
00:01:00,630 --> 00:01:02,830
I decided it's 5:30,
the post office is closed.
16
00:01:02,832 --> 00:01:05,166
Nobody's going to come and get
their mail that day.
17
00:01:05,168 --> 00:01:09,170
Then I just walked the streets
of Hanover late at night.
18
00:01:09,172 --> 00:01:12,873
I started to wonder if
somebody had tipped him off.
19
00:01:12,875 --> 00:01:14,975
So the next day I
came back.
20
00:01:14,977 --> 00:01:17,611
One man came out of the post
office, I photographed him,
21
00:01:17,613 --> 00:01:21,482
wrote down the license plate
number, but it wasn't him.
22
00:01:21,484 --> 00:01:22,783
So I waited.
23
00:01:22,785 --> 00:01:27,087
And then this jeep pulls up,
but I don't see his face.
24
00:01:27,089 --> 00:01:30,925
He gets out and and goes into
the post office really quickly.
25
00:01:30,927 --> 00:01:33,027
And then as he
came back out...
26
00:01:41,703 --> 00:01:44,171
[Telephone rings]
27
00:01:44,173 --> 00:01:45,272
MAN: Newsroom?
28
00:01:45,274 --> 00:01:48,976
McDERMOTT: I got him.
29
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I got Salinger.
30
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Thinking back on the guys
who sat around the poker table,
31
00:02:25,781 --> 00:02:30,017
what distinguished Jerry
out of that pack
32
00:02:30,019 --> 00:02:34,488
was that there was in him
no doubt
33
00:02:34,490 --> 00:02:36,991
that he was going to be
published,
34
00:02:36,993 --> 00:02:39,760
no doubt that he had
an enormous talent
35
00:02:39,762 --> 00:02:43,264
and no doubt that everybody else
at the poker table
36
00:02:43,266 --> 00:02:44,698
was inferior to him.
37
00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:47,534
He was very, very tall,
and thin,
38
00:02:47,536 --> 00:02:50,804
sort of attenuated,
like a candlestick.
39
00:02:50,806 --> 00:02:55,809
And he had amazing eyes, sort of
the color of black coffee.
40
00:02:55,811 --> 00:02:59,313
Very intense.
Extremely intense.
41
00:02:59,315 --> 00:03:02,416
When he was writing a book,
you did not bother him.
42
00:03:02,418 --> 00:03:04,818
Claire was not
allowed to bother him.
43
00:03:04,820 --> 00:03:06,220
You couldn't call him.
44
00:03:06,222 --> 00:03:08,756
You couldn't go down,
knock on the door.
45
00:03:08,758 --> 00:03:10,624
You left him alone until
he came out.
46
00:03:10,626 --> 00:03:13,794
His work was ordained by God.
47
00:03:13,796 --> 00:03:18,198
His work was his way to
enlightenment.
48
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:23,003
He was put on this earth
to work, to write.
49
00:03:23,005 --> 00:03:25,272
"Catcher in the Rye"
caught my attention
50
00:03:25,274 --> 00:03:26,774
when it was first came out.
51
00:03:26,776 --> 00:03:28,976
There had not been a voice
like that.
52
00:03:28,978 --> 00:03:31,211
So personal.
So revealing.
53
00:03:31,213 --> 00:03:34,782
It seemed like somebody
stripping the layers
54
00:03:34,784 --> 00:03:36,550
away from their soul.
55
00:03:36,552 --> 00:03:38,652
MAN: It said on the cover,
56
00:03:38,654 --> 00:03:40,788
"this book
will change your life."
57
00:03:40,790 --> 00:03:45,559
And I bought the book,
but I was afraid to read it
58
00:03:45,561 --> 00:03:48,629
because I didn't want
my life changed.
59
00:03:48,631 --> 00:03:51,532
It's magical. You're literally
like how did he do that?
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00:03:51,534 --> 00:03:53,701
How did he put it all together
that way
61
00:03:53,703 --> 00:03:55,969
and lead me through it
in such a way that
62
00:03:55,971 --> 00:03:59,807
I would just land just like
that in that final statement,
63
00:03:59,809 --> 00:04:02,409
where you're just so grateful
to him
64
00:04:02,411 --> 00:04:04,345
and you want to go find him.
65
00:04:04,347 --> 00:04:05,946
Like you're doing now.
66
00:04:08,049 --> 00:04:11,151
MAN: It is an extraordinary
phenomenon,
67
00:04:11,153 --> 00:04:14,788
how many millions and millions
and millions of people
68
00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:16,357
came to that book.
69
00:04:16,359 --> 00:04:19,226
"Catcher in the Rye"
has sold 60 million copies.
70
00:04:19,228 --> 00:04:21,228
That's an
unprecedented figure.
71
00:04:21,230 --> 00:04:23,364
And continues
to sell, by the way,
72
00:04:23,366 --> 00:04:25,532
250,000 copies a year.
73
00:04:25,534 --> 00:04:28,869
It's defined who we are
as an American culture.
74
00:04:28,871 --> 00:04:31,171
A long lost sibling
had arrived.
75
00:04:31,173 --> 00:04:33,874
And he was,
there was Holden Caulfield.
76
00:04:33,876 --> 00:04:40,214
And he became part
of our conversation.
77
00:04:40,216 --> 00:04:42,449
Like a whole genermanual
78
00:04:42,451 --> 00:04:45,386
to how to be a teenage boy,
or a teenager.
79
00:04:45,388 --> 00:04:47,888
To be on the cover
of Time magazine in 1961
80
00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:57,731
was something that only went to
statesmen and Nobel Laureates.
81
00:04:57,733 --> 00:04:58,999
We've said you're one
82
00:04:59,001 --> 00:05:01,635
of the important writers
of the century, now come on.
83
00:05:01,637 --> 00:05:04,138
Let's have some more --
and then he doesn't give it.
84
00:05:04,140 --> 00:05:07,341
In American literature,
like Salinger's
85
00:05:07,343 --> 00:05:09,209
the greatest "no" ever.
86
00:05:09,211 --> 00:05:13,180
Jerry had scaled heights.
Big success.
87
00:05:13,182 --> 00:05:15,449
At the height of that
success, he disappears.
88
00:05:15,451 --> 00:05:17,818
No one said,
"Don't talk about this.
89
00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:19,052
Don't think that."
90
00:05:19,054 --> 00:05:21,388
I mean, you don't have to
to a kid.
91
00:05:21,390 --> 00:05:24,358
Kids pick up what the elephants
are in the room
92
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,794
that the family
is not talking about.
93
00:05:26,796 --> 00:05:40,741
He sort of became
the Howard Hughes of his day.
94
00:05:40,743 --> 00:05:42,509
[Typewriter typing]
95
00:05:55,023 --> 00:05:56,490
Mystery.
96
00:05:56,492 --> 00:05:57,825
We all like a mystery.
97
00:05:57,827 --> 00:06:00,694
We all like to say, you know,
what makes this guy tick?
98
00:06:00,696 --> 00:06:06,767
I've heard that he has a huge
bunker that he writes in.
99
00:06:12,207 --> 00:06:15,342
He wanted nothing to come
between him and his characters.
100
00:06:15,344 --> 00:06:17,377
They were
real for him.
101
00:06:17,379 --> 00:06:19,480
He moved them about
the stage like God.
102
00:06:23,117 --> 00:06:26,887
MAN: He dove into this well,
the Glass family, and drowned.
103
00:06:26,889 --> 00:06:28,088
MAN: They were kinda saying,
104
00:06:28,090 --> 00:06:29,690
"What happened with
J.D. Salinger?
105
00:06:29,692 --> 00:06:31,525
I think he's kind of
a crackpot."
106
00:06:31,527 --> 00:06:33,227
MAN: If everybody
has told you
107
00:06:33,229 --> 00:06:35,128
what a gift you're
giving the world,
108
00:06:35,130 --> 00:06:37,698
why is it that you actually want
to board yourself up
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00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:39,199
in this place and hide?
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00:06:39,201 --> 00:06:42,503
ALEXANDER: You cannot dismiss
the issues of his private life.
111
00:06:42,505 --> 00:06:47,374
He didn't exactly say that he'd
had a nervous breakdown.
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00:06:47,376 --> 00:06:50,010
MAN: How dare you turn your back
on us.
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00:06:50,012 --> 00:06:52,346
We're your fans.
You've gotten inside our heads.
114
00:06:52,348 --> 00:06:53,914
[Gunfire]
115
00:06:53,916 --> 00:06:56,149
What would I do
if a killer invoked
116
00:06:56,151 --> 00:06:59,553
something that I had written
as his defense?
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00:06:59,555 --> 00:07:01,622
He says, "You take any more
steps towards me
118
00:07:01,624 --> 00:07:04,291
and I'm going to shoot at the
ground right in front of you,"
119
00:07:04,293 --> 00:07:05,859
and he had his gun
in his hand.
120
00:07:05,861 --> 00:07:09,329
MAN: Perhaps, there's a huge
treasure trove up there.
121
00:07:09,331 --> 00:07:11,798
WOMAN: I've heard that he has
his manuscripts
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00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:12,966
locked in a safe.
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00:07:12,968 --> 00:07:15,836
I wanna believe.
I wanna see more of the work.
124
00:07:18,039 --> 00:07:20,173
But the great mystery is why
he stopped.
125
00:07:20,175 --> 00:07:22,976
What's in that...
that vault?
126
00:07:22,978 --> 00:07:24,711
What made him?
What formed him?
127
00:07:24,713 --> 00:07:27,347
What he's written for the last
[bleep] forty years.
128
00:07:27,349 --> 00:07:29,850
I mean, isn't that what
everybody wants to know?
129
00:07:29,852 --> 00:07:32,786
You son of a bitch,
why won't you give us more?
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00:07:35,356 --> 00:07:37,457
I guess I went looking
for Holden...
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00:07:37,459 --> 00:07:40,894
Myths have a way of vanishing
in a second.
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00:07:40,896 --> 00:07:43,163
...and I found J.D. Salinger.
133
00:08:01,916 --> 00:08:04,651
-Mr. A.E.?
-Well, there he is.
134
00:08:04,653 --> 00:08:07,321
How the hell did you
get here?
135
00:08:07,323 --> 00:08:09,890
It was the year after
the war ended
136
00:08:09,892 --> 00:08:12,726
and the only person I knew
who had a job
137
00:08:12,728 --> 00:08:14,561
was a man named Don Cogden,
138
00:08:14,563 --> 00:08:17,998
who was the fiction editor of
Collier's magazine
139
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,467
and we used to
play poker maybe twice a week.
140
00:08:20,469 --> 00:08:22,636
Nickles and dimes,
not much of a game.
141
00:08:22,638 --> 00:08:27,007
And one of the players
was a tall, lanky,
142
00:08:27,009 --> 00:08:31,211
dark gentleman named
Jerry Salinger.
143
00:08:31,213 --> 00:08:33,614
You remember down here
with Jerry?
144
00:08:33,616 --> 00:08:35,148
After the poker games?
145
00:08:35,150 --> 00:08:36,383
Well, of course.
Yeah, yeah.
146
00:08:36,385 --> 00:08:38,986
MAN: At the end of
the evening,
147
00:08:38,988 --> 00:08:42,055
we would go over
to Chumley's Bar and Grill,
148
00:08:42,057 --> 00:08:44,157
which is an old, old
hangout for writers.
149
00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,526
So everybody in here was
convinced that they were
150
00:08:46,528 --> 00:08:48,161
the next
Hemingway or whatever.
151
00:08:48,163 --> 00:08:50,697
Except for Salinger, who didn't
want to be the next Hemingway.
152
00:08:50,699 --> 00:08:55,202
Jerry himself said,
"There's been no great writers
153
00:08:55,204 --> 00:08:56,603
from Melville until me."
154
00:08:56,605 --> 00:08:58,038
He dismissed everybody.
155
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,474
Theodore Dreiser, Hemingway,
Steinbeck.
156
00:09:00,476 --> 00:09:02,676
They were all second rate
talents.
157
00:09:02,678 --> 00:09:03,977
And then it dawned on me --
158
00:09:03,979 --> 00:09:06,480
of all those writers,
Herman Melville was the only one
159
00:09:06,482 --> 00:09:09,149
that was dead,
so it was all right.
160
00:09:09,151 --> 00:09:12,986
WOMAN: He was the only writer
I ever knew
161
00:09:12,988 --> 00:09:15,689
who talked about his characters
162
00:09:15,691 --> 00:09:18,191
as if they were real people.
163
00:09:18,193 --> 00:09:20,560
And it was very strange,
this thing,
164
00:09:20,562 --> 00:09:24,297
because they -- he made them
real in his stories,
165
00:09:24,299 --> 00:09:26,199
they became real for him
166
00:09:26,201 --> 00:09:29,236
and because they were so real
for him,
167
00:09:29,238 --> 00:09:31,938
I began to think of them
as real.
168
00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:33,940
I began to see them as real.
169
00:09:33,942 --> 00:09:37,844
MAN: His attitude,
and he lived as if
170
00:09:37,846 --> 00:09:40,080
he was really one of us.
171
00:09:40,082 --> 00:09:43,116
Scrabbling and trying to get
along best as we could.
172
00:09:43,118 --> 00:09:45,819
And I was pretty shocked to
discover that he literally
173
00:09:45,821 --> 00:09:48,221
lived with his parents
in a very posh apartment
174
00:09:48,223 --> 00:09:49,723
on Park Avenue.
175
00:09:49,725 --> 00:09:53,960
That he had been to a succession
of posh Eastern schools.
176
00:09:53,962 --> 00:09:55,629
Kicked out of most of them.
177
00:09:55,631 --> 00:09:58,632
That he really came from
a country club society.
178
00:09:58,634 --> 00:10:01,835
But it didn't seem to make any
difference with him.
179
00:10:01,837 --> 00:10:03,670
He wasn't
impressed at all
180
00:10:03,672 --> 00:10:05,539
with the life that
he had lived.
181
00:10:05,541 --> 00:10:08,108
And I think that all
becomes very apparent when,
182
00:10:08,110 --> 00:10:10,077
eventually, he writes
the one book
183
00:10:10,079 --> 00:10:12,679
that he writes, and that's
"Catcher in the Rye."
184
00:10:19,854 --> 00:10:23,523
MAN: Salinger's father Solomon
was the son of a rabbi,
185
00:10:23,525 --> 00:10:25,592
an importer of cheese and meats.
186
00:10:25,594 --> 00:10:27,461
Very un-kosher.
187
00:10:27,463 --> 00:10:28,795
His mother was Catholic.
188
00:10:28,797 --> 00:10:31,231
Her name was Marie,
which she changed to Miriam
189
00:10:31,233 --> 00:10:34,468
to be accepted by her husband's
Jewish family.
190
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:38,438
WOMAN: He was very down
on education.
191
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,441
Don't believe everything
your professors say.
192
00:10:41,443 --> 00:10:43,376
They're just giving
you information.
193
00:10:43,378 --> 00:10:46,713
Get your own information
on your own terms.
194
00:10:46,715 --> 00:10:49,216
SHEEN: I think that Salinger
understood
195
00:10:49,218 --> 00:10:50,951
something about the culture,
196
00:10:50,953 --> 00:10:54,287
long before the culture
understood it about itself.
197
00:10:54,289 --> 00:10:58,225
He saw fakes
everywhere.
198
00:10:58,227 --> 00:11:00,260
MAN: After getting kicked out of
prep school,
199
00:11:00,262 --> 00:11:02,028
his father decided he needed
discipline.
200
00:11:02,030 --> 00:11:03,530
He needed structure.
201
00:11:03,532 --> 00:11:06,833
And he shipped him off to
a military academy.
202
00:11:10,438 --> 00:11:13,607
MAN: Valley Forge is important
for two real reasons --
203
00:11:13,609 --> 00:11:15,776
number one, that's where
Salinger
204
00:11:15,778 --> 00:11:17,677
really got his act
together.
205
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,181
And number 2, that's where
Salinger first began to write.
206
00:11:21,183 --> 00:11:25,719
MAN: Salinger wrote at night
by flashlight under the covers.
207
00:11:25,721 --> 00:11:28,288
He was always writing.
208
00:11:28,290 --> 00:11:31,191
What I have here is
J.D. Salinger's yearbook
209
00:11:31,193 --> 00:11:33,794
from the Valley Forge
Military Academy.
210
00:11:33,796 --> 00:11:35,028
It's an extraordinary item.
211
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:37,430
He signed it not only
in his own name,
212
00:11:37,432 --> 00:11:40,734
but he signed the names of
the characters that he played
213
00:11:40,736 --> 00:11:43,403
in the various plays in which
he performed,
214
00:11:43,405 --> 00:11:45,539
because he wanted to
be an actor.
215
00:11:45,541 --> 00:11:48,141
MAN: When he was in high school,
216
00:11:48,143 --> 00:11:51,077
he announced that his ambition
was to succeed Robert Benchley
217
00:11:51,079 --> 00:11:53,213
as the theater critic
for the New Yorker.
218
00:11:55,783 --> 00:11:57,751
WOMAN: His father thought
it was ridiculous
219
00:11:57,753 --> 00:11:59,085
that he was going to
write.
220
00:11:59,087 --> 00:12:00,720
And his father very much
wanted him
221
00:12:00,722 --> 00:12:02,923
to join him in the cheese
business.
222
00:12:02,925 --> 00:12:05,358
Which he had no
intention to do,
223
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,361
and I think that
caused a lot of friction.
224
00:12:08,363 --> 00:12:12,666
His mother, on the other hand,
approved of everything he did.
225
00:12:12,668 --> 00:12:17,437
UNRUE: Salinger enrolled in
Whit Burnett's short story class
226
00:12:17,439 --> 00:12:18,638
at Columbia.
227
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,174
It was a very a important move
for Salinger.
228
00:12:21,176 --> 00:12:24,845
Whit Burnett was also
editor of Story magazine.
229
00:12:24,847 --> 00:12:28,648
MAN: Story magazine published
the very first work
230
00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:31,117
of an extraordinary
number of American writers.
231
00:12:31,119 --> 00:12:34,454
John Cheever, Carson McCullers,
Tennessee Williams,
232
00:12:34,456 --> 00:12:38,358
Erskine Caldwell,
Jean Stafford, Peter Devries.
233
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,995
ALEXANDER: Whit Burnett ended up
being a father figure.
234
00:12:41,997 --> 00:12:43,263
And based on
235
00:12:43,265 --> 00:12:46,499
Burnett's encouragement,
Salinger went home and wrote
236
00:12:46,501 --> 00:12:48,668
a story
called "The Young Folks."
237
00:12:48,670 --> 00:12:53,173
Burnett accepted the story
for Story magazine
238
00:12:53,175 --> 00:12:55,475
and paid him $25.
239
00:12:55,477 --> 00:12:56,810
It was the first money
240
00:12:56,812 --> 00:13:00,947
J.D. Salinger ever made
as a writer.
241
00:13:03,618 --> 00:13:06,219
Salinger always had one goal
in mind.
242
00:13:06,221 --> 00:13:08,088
He wanted to be in
the New Yorker.
243
00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:10,190
MAN: The New Yorker
was considered
244
00:13:10,192 --> 00:13:12,492
the best place for a writer
to be published,
245
00:13:12,494 --> 00:13:13,994
in terms of prestige,
246
00:13:13,996 --> 00:13:16,763
for the simple reason that it
was hard to get published there.
247
00:13:16,765 --> 00:13:22,936
MAN: J.D. Salinger's entrance
into New Yorker was not easy.
248
00:13:22,938 --> 00:13:25,672
YAGODA: The response to
Salinger's early stuff
249
00:13:25,674 --> 00:13:26,940
was one word -- "no."
250
00:13:26,942 --> 00:13:28,642
No...no...no.
251
00:13:28,644 --> 00:13:30,911
You can go to the New Yorker
archives
252
00:13:30,913 --> 00:13:33,313
in the New York Public Library
and read
253
00:13:33,315 --> 00:13:34,814
rejection after rejection.
254
00:13:34,816 --> 00:13:38,551
"It would have worked out better
for us if Mr. Salinger
255
00:13:38,553 --> 00:13:41,054
had not
strained so for cleverness."
256
00:13:41,056 --> 00:13:44,457
"We think Mr. Salinger is a very
talented young man,
257
00:13:44,459 --> 00:13:46,660
and wish to God you could
get him
258
00:13:46,662 --> 00:13:48,528
to write simply and naturally."
259
00:13:48,530 --> 00:13:52,198
"If Mr. Salinger is around town,
perhaps he'd like to come in
260
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,968
and talk to us about
New Yorker stories."
261
00:14:00,608 --> 00:14:02,275
MAN: His reaction was,
262
00:14:02,277 --> 00:14:03,677
"They want me to write
263
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,312
an O'Henry type of short story,
264
00:14:05,314 --> 00:14:07,881
but I have to find my own
voice and this is it,
265
00:14:07,883 --> 00:14:09,382
and they'll catch up to me."
266
00:14:09,384 --> 00:14:12,619
YAGODA: He wrote a letter
to Walcott Gibbs, the editor,
267
00:14:12,621 --> 00:14:15,155
where he took the New Yorker
to task
268
00:14:15,157 --> 00:14:21,094
for not really publishing major,
big short stories.
269
00:14:21,096 --> 00:14:22,529
He said they were too tiny.
270
00:14:22,531 --> 00:14:26,266
I mean this was a kid
lecturing the editors
271
00:14:26,268 --> 00:14:28,468
of the New Yorker
on what they should publish.
272
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:31,638
WOMAN: He was published
in other magazines.
273
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,273
It wasn't good enough.
274
00:14:33,275 --> 00:14:35,041
MAN: He was determined
275
00:14:35,043 --> 00:14:37,544
the New Yorker was going
to publish me,
276
00:14:37,546 --> 00:14:39,079
and, by George, they did.
277
00:14:41,983 --> 00:14:45,952
He had a story accepted in 1941
towards the end
278
00:14:45,954 --> 00:14:48,955
called "Slight Rebellion
off Madison,"
279
00:14:48,957 --> 00:14:50,924
about a kid
named Holden Caulfield.
280
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:59,466
ROOSEVELT: December 7th, 1941,
281
00:14:59,468 --> 00:15:03,470
a date which
will live in infamy.
282
00:15:03,472 --> 00:15:05,672
MAN: Before they could get it
into the magazine,
283
00:15:05,674 --> 00:15:06,906
World War II broke out,
284
00:15:06,908 --> 00:15:08,775
and suddenly
this wonderful story
285
00:15:08,777 --> 00:15:11,011
about a young man named
Holden Caulfield
286
00:15:11,013 --> 00:15:13,580
and this personal rebellion
he was going through
287
00:15:13,582 --> 00:15:15,582
seemed trivial
and beside the point
288
00:15:15,584 --> 00:15:17,951
and, you know, it just didn't
seem appropriate
289
00:15:17,953 --> 00:15:20,854
to put in the magazine and so
they put it on the shelf.
290
00:15:20,856 --> 00:15:23,857
And Jerry was infuriated
at this.
291
00:15:23,859 --> 00:15:27,193
That was his whole thrust
in life
292
00:15:27,195 --> 00:15:29,763
was to be published by
the New Yorker.
293
00:15:40,875 --> 00:15:45,045
ALEXANDER: In 1941,
J.D. Salinger was 21 years old,
294
00:15:45,047 --> 00:15:48,148
living with his parents
in New York City,
295
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:51,951
when he met Oona O'Neill,
who was then 16 years old.
296
00:15:51,953 --> 00:15:56,022
Salinger was absolutely floored
with her beauty.
297
00:15:56,024 --> 00:15:58,858
DIRECTOR: Say something!
It's a silent film!
298
00:15:58,860 --> 00:15:59,926
Is it silent?
299
00:15:59,928 --> 00:16:00,927
Yes!
300
00:16:00,929 --> 00:16:02,629
Shall I turn over here?
301
00:16:02,631 --> 00:16:05,198
[Unintelligible dialogue]
302
00:16:07,701 --> 00:16:11,037
Oona O'Neill was the daughter
of Eugene O'Neill,
303
00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:15,375
still America's only
Nobel Prize-winning dramatist.
304
00:16:15,377 --> 00:16:22,315
He was a dedicated genius
and a really rotten father.
305
00:16:22,317 --> 00:16:24,784
And he always said
his real children
306
00:16:24,786 --> 00:16:26,953
were his
characters in his plays.
307
00:16:26,955 --> 00:16:31,724
Oona O'Neill was someone who was
clearly attracted to genius.
308
00:16:31,726 --> 00:16:37,397
WOMAN: Between the ages of 16
and 18, Oona dated Peter Arno,
309
00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:40,867
Orson Welles and
then J.D. Salinger.
310
00:16:40,869 --> 00:16:45,171
It's interesting to think
of a 16-year-old girl
311
00:16:45,173 --> 00:16:47,006
holding such fascination
312
00:16:47,008 --> 00:16:49,876
for such an illustrious
group of men.
313
00:16:49,878 --> 00:16:51,044
But remember,
314
00:16:51,046 --> 00:16:54,747
we're talking about
a young woman who was
315
00:16:54,749 --> 00:16:56,649
intellectually astute.
316
00:16:56,651 --> 00:16:59,352
Beautiful.
317
00:16:59,354 --> 00:17:01,454
Shy.
Loving.
318
00:17:01,456 --> 00:17:03,523
Quite an extraordinary
young woman.
319
00:17:03,525 --> 00:17:06,059
HADLEY: She was original.
320
00:17:06,061 --> 00:17:08,394
She wasn't like everyone else.
321
00:17:08,396 --> 00:17:11,731
I think this is why
Salinger liked her so much.
322
00:17:11,733 --> 00:17:15,268
Because the one thing that she
was never guilty of
323
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:18,071
was any cliches or any
banalities.
324
00:17:18,073 --> 00:17:20,039
She was totally original.
325
00:17:20,041 --> 00:17:22,642
He had a lot of things
going for him.
326
00:17:22,644 --> 00:17:25,378
He was handsome.
He was intelligent.
327
00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:27,981
He was published.
He was everything.
328
00:17:27,983 --> 00:17:31,117
After school, Oona would
do her homework
329
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:32,886
and then get dressed up,
330
00:17:32,888 --> 00:17:34,921
and she'd go to the Stork Club.
331
00:17:45,266 --> 00:17:48,568
Oh my, look at Oona O'Neill!
332
00:17:48,570 --> 00:17:50,803
Debutante of the year.
333
00:17:50,805 --> 00:17:54,474
They always photographed her
with a glass of milk,
334
00:17:54,476 --> 00:17:57,410
because, of course,
she was under age.
335
00:17:57,412 --> 00:17:59,345
It was a tremendous love story.
336
00:17:59,347 --> 00:18:01,814
They truly loved each other.
337
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:07,020
In 1941, 22-year-old
Jerry Salinger
338
00:18:07,022 --> 00:18:08,821
wanted to join the Army.
339
00:18:08,823 --> 00:18:10,623
But when
he went to enlist,
340
00:18:10,625 --> 00:18:13,193
the military
doctors rejected him.
341
00:18:15,196 --> 00:18:18,932
HADLEY: This distressed him
terribly.
342
00:18:18,934 --> 00:18:21,834
He got very angry about this.
343
00:18:21,836 --> 00:18:24,270
MAN: Salinger was determined
to serve.
344
00:18:24,272 --> 00:18:27,307
He wrote letters arguing
to be accepted, and then,
345
00:18:27,309 --> 00:18:31,044
in the spring of 1942, he was
finally allowed to enlist.
346
00:18:31,046 --> 00:18:35,548
[Bugle blowing Reveille]
347
00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:37,650
MAN: What a mind-set.
348
00:18:37,652 --> 00:18:42,088
To come from an existence
of absolute ease and luxury.
349
00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:44,224
And what do you aspire to?
350
00:18:44,226 --> 00:18:47,026
To being in the trenches.
351
00:18:47,028 --> 00:18:49,195
Oona loved hearing
from Jerry.
352
00:18:49,197 --> 00:18:51,397
He wrote
wonderfully seductive,
353
00:18:51,399 --> 00:18:54,000
totally delightful,
wonderful letters.
354
00:18:54,002 --> 00:18:57,337
MAN: Salinger bragged to all
his Army buddies,
355
00:18:57,339 --> 00:18:58,738
"This is my girlfriend!"
356
00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:01,341
And he showed them pictures
of Oona O'Neill.
357
00:19:01,343 --> 00:19:03,843
But when Oona moved to
California,
358
00:19:03,845 --> 00:19:05,945
she never answered his letters.
359
00:19:05,947 --> 00:19:08,448
He had to know something was up.
360
00:19:08,450 --> 00:19:10,950
WOMAN: in Hollywood,
361
00:19:10,952 --> 00:19:14,487
Charlie Chaplin was working on
a film that called for
362
00:19:14,489 --> 00:19:15,955
a very young girl,
363
00:19:15,957 --> 00:19:18,925
and he walked into a room and
Oona was sitting on the floor
364
00:19:18,927 --> 00:19:21,828
by the fireplace and the light
was playing on her
365
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:25,098
and she
looked up and he just, thk!
366
00:19:27,601 --> 00:19:34,874
When I went to Austin to look at
the Salinger collection there,
367
00:19:34,876 --> 00:19:37,210
I read a number of letters.
368
00:19:37,212 --> 00:19:38,478
And...
369
00:19:40,414 --> 00:19:45,285
I have to say that reading them,
I felt like a voyeur.
370
00:19:45,287 --> 00:19:47,820
I mean, I was reading Salinger's
letters.
371
00:19:47,822 --> 00:19:49,455
A number of them were about
372
00:19:49,457 --> 00:19:52,258
Oona O'Neill.
373
00:19:52,260 --> 00:19:53,393
Some of them were about
374
00:19:53,395 --> 00:19:55,061
Oona O'Neill
and Charlie Chaplin.
375
00:19:55,063 --> 00:19:57,864
And...
376
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,302
there were some
distasteful bits.
377
00:20:02,304 --> 00:20:04,737
ALEXANDER: Imagine
you're J.D. Salinger.
378
00:20:04,739 --> 00:20:07,206
You're in the Army getting ready
to fight
379
00:20:07,208 --> 00:20:08,808
in the great war in Europe.
380
00:20:08,810 --> 00:20:12,178
You've professed your total
and complete love to this woman
381
00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:14,047
and she goes off
and marries,
382
00:20:14,049 --> 00:20:16,215
on her 18th birthday,
383
00:20:16,217 --> 00:20:20,320
the most famous movie star
in the world.
384
00:20:20,322 --> 00:20:23,823
WOMAN: Chaplin was 53,
going on 54.
385
00:20:23,825 --> 00:20:25,158
The headlines
386
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,693
all over the world.
387
00:20:26,695 --> 00:20:30,530
ALEXANDER: Salinger found out
that he lost her
388
00:20:30,532 --> 00:20:32,899
by reading about it
in the newspaper.
389
00:20:32,901 --> 00:20:36,002
MAN: He was humiliated
in front of everyone.
390
00:20:36,004 --> 00:20:38,571
HADLEY: He was very upset
about this.
391
00:20:38,573 --> 00:20:41,240
He did speak about this.
392
00:20:41,242 --> 00:20:43,109
You could feel this anger.
393
00:20:43,111 --> 00:20:48,514
You could feel this terrible
anger about
394
00:20:48,516 --> 00:20:50,650
her rejection of him.
395
00:20:52,586 --> 00:20:54,387
ALEXANDER: For the rest
of his life,
396
00:20:54,389 --> 00:20:57,323
Salinger was haunted by
the love affair
397
00:20:57,325 --> 00:21:00,026
that he could have had,
that didn't happen.
398
00:21:08,235 --> 00:21:09,702
[Explosions]
399
00:21:09,704 --> 00:21:13,806
MAN: The second World War
created J.D. Salinger.
400
00:21:13,808 --> 00:21:17,577
It's the ghost in the machine
of all the stories.
401
00:21:21,115 --> 00:21:24,417
HADLEY: Well, I think,
in the beginning,
402
00:21:24,419 --> 00:21:26,686
Jerry felt very patriotic.
403
00:21:26,688 --> 00:21:32,759
I remember he said
it was extraordinary, you know,
404
00:21:32,761 --> 00:21:35,495
to feel that he was part of
something,
405
00:21:35,497 --> 00:21:37,830
doing good in the world.
406
00:21:37,832 --> 00:21:40,466
MAN: Of all the days for someone
to be initiated into combat,
407
00:21:40,468 --> 00:21:42,568
Salinger's was D-Day.
408
00:21:45,172 --> 00:21:47,840
You look out to the horizon as
far as you can see,
409
00:21:47,842 --> 00:21:49,475
it's just full of ships.
410
00:21:52,012 --> 00:21:55,448
MAN: Salinger told Whit Burnett
that on D-Day
411
00:21:55,450 --> 00:21:59,852
he was carrying six chapters
of "Catcher in the Rye."
412
00:21:59,854 --> 00:22:01,187
As a sort of
413
00:22:01,189 --> 00:22:03,256
a mystical talisman.
414
00:22:03,258 --> 00:22:07,994
That he needed those pages
with him -- to help him survive.
415
00:22:07,996 --> 00:22:10,763
MAN: Salinger was
in a landing craft
416
00:22:10,765 --> 00:22:12,799
coming in towards
Utah Beach.
417
00:22:12,801 --> 00:22:15,668
MAN: There is a roar of
the engine as you pick up speed
418
00:22:15,670 --> 00:22:17,670
and you know --
here we go.
419
00:22:22,976 --> 00:22:25,711
MAN: Most of these guys
were 19, 20 years old.
420
00:22:25,713 --> 00:22:28,514
Salinger was 25 years old.
Salinger was an old man.
421
00:22:30,984 --> 00:22:32,151
Shells were flying.
422
00:22:32,153 --> 00:22:36,222
The small arms
were still coming in.
423
00:22:36,224 --> 00:22:40,026
The artillery
shells were coming in.
424
00:22:40,028 --> 00:22:43,396
MAN: There was this tremendous
explosion.
425
00:22:43,398 --> 00:22:46,032
Landing craft hit
a mine and blew up.
426
00:22:46,034 --> 00:22:49,469
And there were
bodies up in the air.
427
00:22:56,109 --> 00:22:58,845
MAN: From the minute
that ramp dropped
428
00:22:58,847 --> 00:23:02,281
and Salinger ran out with
the others into the surf...
429
00:23:02,283 --> 00:23:04,717
[Gasps] cold, waist-deep water.
430
00:23:04,719 --> 00:23:06,552
...it was pure and utter
confusion.
431
00:23:11,058 --> 00:23:14,861
I lost my first man by a sniper.
Shot right between the eyes.
432
00:23:14,863 --> 00:23:16,562
You take a quick look.
433
00:23:16,564 --> 00:23:19,765
You know that that's it.
And you're off.
434
00:23:35,849 --> 00:23:42,455
At the end of the day, you can
sit back and -- whew, man...
435
00:23:42,457 --> 00:23:44,590
Hoagy's gone.
436
00:23:51,365 --> 00:23:53,332
MAN: The Americans thought
the landing
437
00:23:53,334 --> 00:23:55,001
would be the hardest thing.
438
00:23:55,003 --> 00:23:58,671
The day after D-Day, that's when
the fighting really started.
439
00:23:58,673 --> 00:24:02,008
When the Fourth Division,
that Salinger belonged to,
440
00:24:02,010 --> 00:24:05,745
went into the ancient
fields and hedgerows.
441
00:24:05,747 --> 00:24:08,748
They learned basically that
everything that they learned
442
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:10,650
in basic training
didn't apply.
443
00:24:20,394 --> 00:24:23,696
Every field was going
to cost them 20, 30 guys.
444
00:24:23,698 --> 00:24:26,499
One field,
100 yards by 100 yards,
445
00:24:26,501 --> 00:24:28,935
would sometimes cost
a whole platoon.
446
00:24:31,071 --> 00:24:33,239
Killing ground, absolutely,
for us.
447
00:24:33,241 --> 00:24:34,840
It was like a meat grinder.
448
00:24:36,209 --> 00:24:42,048
That's where our casualty rate
began to climb tremendously.
449
00:24:42,050 --> 00:24:43,649
This fight around Edmondville
450
00:24:43,651 --> 00:24:46,686
is one of the most bitter in
the entire battle of Normandy.
451
00:24:46,688 --> 00:24:48,888
At one point
they see a white flag.
452
00:24:48,890 --> 00:24:52,124
So the Americans think there's
going to be a surrender.
453
00:24:52,126 --> 00:24:53,893
The junior officers come forward
454
00:24:53,895 --> 00:24:55,628
to accept
the surrender honorably.
455
00:24:55,630 --> 00:25:00,700
And all of the sudden
the Germans open fire.
456
00:25:00,702 --> 00:25:02,835
The Americans become kill crazy.
457
00:25:02,837 --> 00:25:06,939
Such an act of treachery
had to be punished.
458
00:25:06,941 --> 00:25:09,609
It wasn't gonna be just
a matter of saying,
459
00:25:09,611 --> 00:25:11,477
"Well, we're not taking
prisoners."
460
00:25:11,479 --> 00:25:13,980
They're gonna hunt down
every German in the area
461
00:25:13,982 --> 00:25:15,815
and they're gonna kill 'em.
[Gunfire]
462
00:25:29,763 --> 00:25:33,165
MAN: Salinger was part of
the Counterintelligence Corps,
463
00:25:33,167 --> 00:25:36,769
whose job it was to interview
enemy prisoners and civilians.
464
00:25:36,771 --> 00:25:39,705
MAN: Salinger played a very
important role.
465
00:25:39,707 --> 00:25:42,308
GI's, young guys in squads,
466
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:44,810
being asked to attack
a village,
467
00:25:44,812 --> 00:25:46,612
they wanted to know
every single thing
468
00:25:46,614 --> 00:25:48,614
they could possibly know about
that village --
469
00:25:48,616 --> 00:25:50,449
where the machine gun
nests were,
470
00:25:50,451 --> 00:25:54,487
where the alleyways were, where
the avenues of fire were.
471
00:25:54,489 --> 00:25:57,556
Men like Salinger, their job was
to provide information
472
00:25:57,558 --> 00:26:01,861
that would have
kept more of those guys alive.
473
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:10,670
He had a lot of latitude to move
behind and near the enemy lines,
474
00:26:10,672 --> 00:26:13,639
to understand the culture,
to understand the people,
475
00:26:13,641 --> 00:26:15,141
to understand
what war did
476
00:26:15,143 --> 00:26:16,575
to the local people.
477
00:26:16,577 --> 00:26:19,245
It was a more intellectual,
probing war for him
478
00:26:19,247 --> 00:26:22,348
than the average grunt.
479
00:26:22,350 --> 00:26:25,751
My dad was actually 21
when he met Mr. Salinger
480
00:26:25,753 --> 00:26:27,453
and Mr. Salinger was 25,
481
00:26:27,455 --> 00:26:28,921
so he was four years
his senior.
482
00:26:28,923 --> 00:26:30,990
And they were in the
Counterintelligence Corps.
483
00:26:30,992 --> 00:26:33,125
The four gentlemen
you see here --
484
00:26:33,127 --> 00:26:34,927
Mr. Salinger, Mr. Altaras,
485
00:26:34,929 --> 00:26:38,030
Mr. Keenan,
and my father Paul Fitzgerald --
486
00:26:38,032 --> 00:26:41,534
they refer to each other
as "The Four Musketeers."
487
00:26:41,536 --> 00:26:44,170
They corresponded for nearly
65 years.
488
00:26:44,172 --> 00:26:46,772
And there is really a bond.
489
00:26:46,774 --> 00:26:50,176
My dad used to comment that
Altaras and Keenan would say
490
00:26:50,178 --> 00:26:52,912
there was really no time for us
to do anything
491
00:26:52,914 --> 00:26:55,448
because we always had to stop
for Salinger
492
00:26:55,450 --> 00:26:58,918
to sit by the roadside working
on short stories or his novel.
493
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,453
And my father took
494
00:27:00,455 --> 00:27:03,823
the only photo that anybody's
ever seen of Salinger writing
495
00:27:03,825 --> 00:27:05,991
"The Catcher in the Rye."
496
00:27:22,743 --> 00:27:27,279
MAN: I took five students
to Princeton.
497
00:27:27,281 --> 00:27:30,516
They wanted to see what they
could find,
498
00:27:30,518 --> 00:27:33,152
what they could discover of
Salinger at Princeton Library.
499
00:27:33,154 --> 00:27:36,822
After we got into
the reading room,
500
00:27:36,824 --> 00:27:39,658
we turned the last page of
something and came across
501
00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:47,399
a 3x5-inch light green
spiral notebk-bound paper.
502
00:27:47,401 --> 00:27:50,803
And I remember at that
moment
503
00:27:50,805 --> 00:27:52,838
everybody's pulse sort of
jumped because
504
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,074
it was handwritten...
505
00:27:57,544 --> 00:28:00,579
Ostensibly it was written
by Salinger
506
00:28:00,581 --> 00:28:05,284
about the Allies coming
into Paris.
507
00:28:16,730 --> 00:28:19,865
He talked about driving
in the jeeps into Paris
508
00:28:19,867 --> 00:28:22,334
and the Parisians holding
their babies up
509
00:28:22,336 --> 00:28:24,670
for the
Americans to kiss.
510
00:28:24,672 --> 00:28:27,740
And, he said that you could
stand on the hood of your jeep
511
00:28:27,742 --> 00:28:28,941
and take a leak on it
512
00:28:28,943 --> 00:28:31,243
and it wouldn't matter,
it would be okay.
513
00:28:31,245 --> 00:28:34,280
Anything you did
would be fine.
514
00:29:10,784 --> 00:29:13,853
I think one of the great stories
of literary history
515
00:29:13,855 --> 00:29:16,055
is the meeting of
Ernest Hemingway
516
00:29:16,057 --> 00:29:19,024
and J.D. Salinger in Paris,
during the liberation.
517
00:29:19,026 --> 00:29:21,393
Ernest Hemingway was his icon.
518
00:29:21,395 --> 00:29:24,730
He loved the way
Ernest Hemingway wrote.
519
00:29:24,732 --> 00:29:27,099
At the time that Salinger met
my grandfather,
520
00:29:27,101 --> 00:29:29,001
Ernest Hemingway,
in World War II,
521
00:29:29,003 --> 00:29:32,671
he was the most famous writer
of the 20th century.
522
00:29:32,673 --> 00:29:36,508
And so, you can see why Salinger
would seek him out.
523
00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:40,579
And I think that would have been
a kind of romantic vision
524
00:29:40,581 --> 00:29:43,549
for my grandfather to see
in Salinger
525
00:29:43,551 --> 00:29:45,584
a talented young writer,
in the infantry division,
526
00:29:45,586 --> 00:29:47,386
fighting during World War II.
527
00:29:47,388 --> 00:29:51,824
And Jerry actually gave him
a manuscript
528
00:29:51,826 --> 00:29:56,095
and asked Hemingway to look
at it.
529
00:29:59,299 --> 00:30:04,703
Which took a great deal of
derring-do on his part, really.
530
00:30:04,705 --> 00:30:07,673
But Hemingway saw what he'd
written and loved it!
531
00:30:07,675 --> 00:30:09,541
Jerry was thrilled
532
00:30:09,543 --> 00:30:13,479
that Hemingway
appreciated his writing.
533
00:30:13,481 --> 00:30:17,149
This was like getting
the greatest accolade
534
00:30:17,151 --> 00:30:19,818
he could possibly have.
535
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:25,624
I didn't think that Jerry would
ever push up to see anybody,
536
00:30:25,626 --> 00:30:31,597
'cause he seemed rather shy
and reclusive.
537
00:30:38,471 --> 00:30:42,908
J.D. Salinger is a recluse who
likes to flirt with the public
538
00:30:42,910 --> 00:30:45,210
to remind them that he's
a recluse.
539
00:30:45,212 --> 00:30:46,645
He's not a recluse.
540
00:30:46,647 --> 00:30:49,214
He appears
whenever he feels like.
541
00:30:49,216 --> 00:30:52,618
The Cornish Fair would start and
we'd see all our friends
542
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:53,919
and all our neighbors,
543
00:30:53,921 --> 00:30:56,221
and Jerry Salinger
was one of them.
544
00:30:56,223 --> 00:30:59,992
He came to all the fairs
and enjoyed them immensely.
545
00:30:59,994 --> 00:31:01,694
MAN: A friend of mine said,
546
00:31:01,696 --> 00:31:03,595
"Oh, I met
J.D. Salinger tonight,
547
00:31:03,597 --> 00:31:05,664
popped in
backstage to meet the cast.
548
00:31:05,666 --> 00:31:07,866
And he was very jovial
and very cheery."
549
00:31:11,571 --> 00:31:15,607
He's not reclusive in the total
sense of the word.
550
00:31:15,609 --> 00:31:18,510
He's in touch with people.
551
00:31:18,512 --> 00:31:20,913
He travels to Europe.
552
00:31:20,915 --> 00:31:23,349
He comes to New York.
553
00:31:23,351 --> 00:31:24,583
[Telephone rings]
554
00:31:24,585 --> 00:31:27,486
MAN: We were just hanging
around the house
555
00:31:27,488 --> 00:31:28,921
when the phone rings.
556
00:31:28,923 --> 00:31:30,055
I answered it.
557
00:31:30,057 --> 00:31:33,792
This male voice asks
for Lacey Fosburgh.
558
00:31:33,794 --> 00:31:39,098
Salinger has to do everything
exactly on his own terms.
559
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:42,968
The true recluse would never
pick up the phone
560
00:31:42,970 --> 00:31:45,471
and call a reporter
from The New York Times.
561
00:31:45,473 --> 00:31:49,408
MAN: Lacey was the first woman
to ever cover the police beat
562
00:31:49,410 --> 00:31:50,776
for The New York Times,
563
00:31:50,778 --> 00:31:53,712
and now working out of
the San Francisco bureau.
564
00:31:53,714 --> 00:31:56,849
She picked up the phone
and his first line was,
565
00:31:56,851 --> 00:31:58,917
"This is a man called
Salinger."
566
00:31:58,919 --> 00:32:00,753
He enjoys the game.
567
00:32:00,755 --> 00:32:04,256
Reclusivity is a great public
relations device
568
00:32:04,258 --> 00:32:05,791
among other things.
569
00:32:05,793 --> 00:32:08,427
By being out of the picture,
he's in the picture.
570
00:32:08,429 --> 00:32:12,664
And I think that is probably an
intentional paradox on his part.
571
00:32:12,666 --> 00:32:15,300
She goes [whispering],
"Salinger! It's Salinger!"
572
00:32:15,302 --> 00:32:17,403
This was the first interview
573
00:32:17,405 --> 00:32:20,372
that Salinger had granted
since 1953.
574
00:32:20,374 --> 00:32:22,408
"Piece of paper.
Get me some paper!"
575
00:32:22,410 --> 00:32:25,811
He says right off the bat,
"I can only talk for a minute."
576
00:32:25,813 --> 00:32:27,780
So I'm scurrying around grabbin'
some paper
577
00:32:27,782 --> 00:32:30,382
and she's furiously writing
notes on anything that's around.
578
00:32:30,384 --> 00:32:32,885
And of course the conversation
ends up being
579
00:32:32,887 --> 00:32:34,053
a half an hour long.
580
00:32:34,055 --> 00:32:35,888
He sets the scene --
it was a cold,
581
00:32:35,890 --> 00:32:38,724
wind-swept, rainy night
in New Hampshire
582
00:32:38,726 --> 00:32:40,426
as he was talking to her.
583
00:32:40,428 --> 00:32:42,628
And the
point of the call was
584
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:46,398
he was concerned that pirated
editions of his uncollected
585
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,235
short stories were
being sold across the country.
586
00:32:50,237 --> 00:32:52,137
J.D. Salinger paperbacks.
587
00:32:52,139 --> 00:32:53,472
Two little volumes.
588
00:32:53,474 --> 00:32:56,742
He referred to them as
the "gaucheries of his youth."
589
00:32:56,744 --> 00:32:59,678
The stories that he never wanted
published at all.
590
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,747
That he'd written
in the 1940's.
591
00:33:01,749 --> 00:33:04,550
He called her because he was
clearly upset
592
00:33:04,552 --> 00:33:07,186
about this pirate
publication.
593
00:33:07,188 --> 00:33:10,122
These were stories that he
did not want in circulation.
594
00:33:10,124 --> 00:33:11,256
He didn't have to do that.
595
00:33:11,258 --> 00:33:12,891
All he had to do was file
a lawsuit.
596
00:33:12,893 --> 00:33:15,561
One of the great coups of
the story
597
00:33:15,563 --> 00:33:18,997
was that she was able
to get Salinger
598
00:33:18,999 --> 00:33:21,066
to talk about what
he was up to as a writer,
599
00:33:21,068 --> 00:33:22,868
and that he was writing
every day.
600
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:25,370
Which was one of the great
mysteries
601
00:33:25,372 --> 00:33:28,207
of the literary world for
a decade or so.
602
00:33:31,444 --> 00:33:35,380
He paints this portrait of
someone
603
00:33:35,382 --> 00:33:38,684
who is completely devoted
still to his craft.
604
00:33:38,686 --> 00:33:40,752
Still turning out story
after story,
605
00:33:40,754 --> 00:33:42,221
novel after novel, perhaps.
606
00:33:42,223 --> 00:33:44,990
And she got him to talk
about his own feelings
607
00:33:44,992 --> 00:33:48,393
about publishing and being
published and being private.
608
00:33:48,395 --> 00:33:51,563
ALEXANDER: Salinger said,
"I don't have any intention
609
00:33:51,565 --> 00:33:52,931
of publishing.
610
00:33:52,933 --> 00:33:56,235
There is a stillness that comes
from not publishing."
611
00:33:58,171 --> 00:34:01,473
MAN: Lacey immediately got on
the phone with the national desk
612
00:34:01,475 --> 00:34:03,642
of The New York Times and says,
"Hey...
613
00:34:03,644 --> 00:34:05,644
I just talked to Salinger."
614
00:34:05,646 --> 00:34:08,247
He knew if he called
The New York Times reporter
615
00:34:08,249 --> 00:34:11,350
that story would be on the front
page of The New York Times.
616
00:34:11,352 --> 00:34:13,152
Which is exactly what
happened.
617
00:34:13,154 --> 00:34:15,187
MAN: Which was extraordinary
at the time.
618
00:34:15,189 --> 00:34:17,222
This was before the Times
format had changed
619
00:34:17,224 --> 00:34:20,826
and so running soft news
on the front page was
620
00:34:20,828 --> 00:34:22,394
a big deal.
621
00:34:22,396 --> 00:34:25,030
I didn't have a lot of money
in those days and I didn't know
622
00:34:25,032 --> 00:34:27,199
quite what was going on,
so I bought volume one.
623
00:34:27,201 --> 00:34:30,269
And when I went back to
buy the second one,
624
00:34:30,271 --> 00:34:34,006
not only was the book gone,
both volumes were missing.
625
00:34:34,008 --> 00:34:37,776
The store owners declined
to admit they'd ever sold it.
626
00:34:37,778 --> 00:34:40,679
Salinger had pulled them from
all the book stores.
627
00:34:40,681 --> 00:34:43,949
And this was a secondhand
bookstore on Telegraph Avenue.
628
00:34:43,951 --> 00:34:46,485
I couldn't even
believe he could reach that far.
629
00:34:59,966 --> 00:35:04,002
MAN: It was incredibly eerie,
almost sort of Medieval,
630
00:35:04,004 --> 00:35:08,373
prim fears came
out of the Hurtgen Forest.
631
00:35:08,375 --> 00:35:10,509
Salinger
experienced that first hand.
632
00:35:10,511 --> 00:35:13,078
It was basically described as
a meat grinder.
633
00:35:17,984 --> 00:35:21,787
Soldiers described that battle
as one where they wished
634
00:35:21,789 --> 00:35:24,456
they could
crawl inside their helmets.
635
00:35:24,458 --> 00:35:26,525
MAN: Whole companies
of 200 men
636
00:35:26,527 --> 00:35:31,363
would be down to 20 or 30
after four or five hours.
637
00:35:31,365 --> 00:35:35,734
MAN: Guys would literally have
their arms blown off.
638
00:35:35,736 --> 00:35:37,736
Half a leg missing.
639
00:35:37,738 --> 00:35:40,439
And they'd be laughing as they
were taken off in a stretcher
640
00:35:40,441 --> 00:35:42,374
because they knew they were
going home.
641
00:35:48,815 --> 00:35:51,717
The only way Salinger could have
survived an intense shelling
642
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,353
would have been to literally hug
a tree.
643
00:35:54,355 --> 00:35:57,122
MAN: To get close enough
to that thing
644
00:35:57,124 --> 00:36:00,192
and pray to God that somebody
else gets it.
645
00:36:26,552 --> 00:36:29,554
November 10, 1944.
646
00:36:29,556 --> 00:36:31,089
Dear M:
647
00:36:31,091 --> 00:36:33,191
This poor young man has been
bombarding me with poems
648
00:36:33,193 --> 00:36:34,626
for a week or so.
649
00:36:34,628 --> 00:36:37,629
It appears that he's serving
overseas.
650
00:36:37,631 --> 00:36:39,831
So everything becomes
more touching.
651
00:36:39,833 --> 00:36:44,036
J.D. Salinger and Louise Bogan
first crossed paths
652
00:36:44,038 --> 00:36:48,407
when he wrote to her
in November of 1944.
653
00:36:48,409 --> 00:36:50,142
He may have thought
654
00:36:50,144 --> 00:36:54,680
that she was the poetry editor
of the New Yorker.
655
00:36:54,682 --> 00:36:55,847
She wasn't.
656
00:36:55,849 --> 00:36:58,250
She was simply
their reviewer.
657
00:36:58,252 --> 00:37:00,986
And she passed the poems
along to her friend
658
00:37:00,988 --> 00:37:02,854
at the magazine,
William Maxwell.
659
00:37:02,856 --> 00:37:04,156
"Dear M.
660
00:37:04,158 --> 00:37:07,192
I send you another of
Sergeant Salinger's letters.
661
00:37:07,194 --> 00:37:10,495
I have written him, but it is
better if you write him, too.
662
00:37:10,497 --> 00:37:12,264
Perhaps this would help
stem the tide.
663
00:37:12,266 --> 00:37:14,099
Love, Louise."
664
00:37:22,608 --> 00:37:24,042
We don't really know
665
00:37:24,044 --> 00:37:27,079
what she thought about the poems
themselves,
666
00:37:27,081 --> 00:37:30,615
but she was deeply touched
that he had written to her
667
00:37:30,617 --> 00:37:32,718
and his life was
in danger.
668
00:37:55,775 --> 00:38:00,412
For a soldier like Salinger,
walking into a camp,
669
00:38:00,414 --> 00:38:06,084
there was a stillness to it
and a craziness to it.
670
00:38:06,086 --> 00:38:08,920
They were caught off-guard.
671
00:38:08,922 --> 00:38:10,956
These weren't liberations
in the sense
672
00:38:10,958 --> 00:38:13,325
of busting down the gates
or anything like that.
673
00:38:13,327 --> 00:38:14,826
These soldiers were
walking
674
00:38:14,828 --> 00:38:17,829
into a place open.
675
00:38:17,831 --> 00:38:23,502
This was like falling
into a graveyard.
676
00:38:25,671 --> 00:38:29,107
In the case of the camp
that Salinger saw,
677
00:38:29,109 --> 00:38:32,244
that was the Krankenlager,
the camp for the sick.
678
00:38:35,748 --> 00:38:37,983
WOMAN:
Naked bodies stacked up.
679
00:38:37,985 --> 00:38:41,853
Bodies that looked like
they were dead people,
680
00:38:41,855 --> 00:38:45,957
but sometimes discovering sounds
coming from the bodies.
681
00:38:45,959 --> 00:38:50,662
Salinger was an experienced
fighter by this time.
682
00:38:50,664 --> 00:38:53,965
But nothing prepared him for
683
00:38:53,967 --> 00:38:56,768
this kind of sight.
684
00:38:56,770 --> 00:39:00,038
This kind of desecration
of humanity.
685
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,442
WOMAN: The Germans had locked
prisoners
686
00:39:03,444 --> 00:39:06,778
into flimsy barracks
687
00:39:06,780 --> 00:39:09,648
and set them on fire.
688
00:39:09,650 --> 00:39:11,850
MAN: They were burned alive.
689
00:39:18,791 --> 00:39:23,962
The sentence that Salinger says
is, that you never really get
690
00:39:23,964 --> 00:39:28,233
the smell of burning flesh
out of your nostrils.
691
00:39:28,235 --> 00:39:29,968
No matter how long you live.
692
00:39:32,238 --> 00:39:34,072
The National Broadcasting
Company
693
00:39:34,074 --> 00:39:36,007
delays the start
of all its programs
694
00:39:36,009 --> 00:39:37,776
to bring you
a special bulletin.
695
00:39:37,778 --> 00:39:39,411
It was announced in
San Francisco
696
00:39:39,413 --> 00:39:40,712
half an hour ago
697
00:39:40,714 --> 00:39:43,048
by a high American official
not identified
698
00:39:43,050 --> 00:39:44,983
as saying that Germany
has surrendered
699
00:39:44,985 --> 00:39:47,686
unconditionally to the Allies,
no strings attached.
700
00:39:47,688 --> 00:39:51,289
MAN: There would be no more
firing, no more death,
701
00:39:51,291 --> 00:39:52,824
no more killing,
no more destruction.
702
00:39:52,826 --> 00:39:54,459
It was over.
703
00:40:04,837 --> 00:40:07,005
They could look forward
to life.
704
00:40:07,007 --> 00:40:09,274
The sacrifices that had
been made,
705
00:40:09,276 --> 00:40:12,711
the horrors they'd seen,
were over.
706
00:40:12,713 --> 00:40:15,714
V-E Day meant that they were on
their way home.
707
00:40:26,359 --> 00:40:30,996
MAN: On behalf of the commanding
officer and his staff,
708
00:40:30,998 --> 00:40:33,765
I want to extend a hearty
welcome to all of you.
709
00:40:33,767 --> 00:40:37,669
There's no need to be alarmed at
the presence of these cameras,
710
00:40:37,671 --> 00:40:40,772
as they are making
a photographic record
711
00:40:40,774 --> 00:40:43,008
of your progress at
this hospital
712
00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:46,278
from the date of admission
to the date of discharge.
713
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,213
As a result of the horrors
714
00:40:48,215 --> 00:40:50,882
that he witnessed
in World War II,
715
00:40:50,884 --> 00:40:53,885
J.D. Salinger suffered
a nervous breakdown.
716
00:40:53,887 --> 00:40:58,790
MAN: Salinger's stuff is all
about innocence, somehow,
717
00:40:58,792 --> 00:41:02,627
and the damage done to innocence
in the world.
718
00:41:02,629 --> 00:41:05,630
MAN: J.D. Salinger went
from D-Day
719
00:41:05,632 --> 00:41:08,433
all the way through
to V-E Day,
720
00:41:08,435 --> 00:41:11,002
299 days in combat.
721
00:41:11,004 --> 00:41:13,872
What Salinger experienced was
basically
722
00:41:13,874 --> 00:41:16,975
a continual assault
on his senses,
723
00:41:16,977 --> 00:41:18,910
mentally, spiritually,
physically.
724
00:41:18,912 --> 00:41:23,114
He would have been under
immense, unimaginable stress.
725
00:41:27,053 --> 00:41:29,387
The probability
of not making it,
726
00:41:29,389 --> 00:41:32,657
either by being killed
or wounded,
727
00:41:32,659 --> 00:41:35,827
was really there
from day to day.
728
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:40,198
And that makes people snap
later.
729
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,101
MAN: The statistic is that
anybody --
730
00:41:43,103 --> 00:41:46,071
it doesn't matter how
you were raised,
731
00:41:46,073 --> 00:41:48,306
how tough you are mentally --
732
00:41:48,308 --> 00:41:51,176
anybody, after 200 days,
goes nuts.
733
00:41:51,178 --> 00:41:54,479
After 200 days of combat,
you are insane.
734
00:41:58,217 --> 00:42:01,252
MAN: Shortly after he was
released from the hospital,
735
00:42:01,254 --> 00:42:03,121
Salinger wrote the first
short story
736
00:42:03,123 --> 00:42:05,090
narrated by Holden Caulfield.
737
00:42:05,092 --> 00:42:07,292
It was called "I'm Crazy."
738
00:42:13,666 --> 00:42:16,635
After his nervous breakdown,
739
00:42:16,637 --> 00:42:19,738
Salinger signed up for
a longer tour of duty
740
00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:24,275
so he could be part of
the deNazification program.
741
00:42:24,277 --> 00:42:26,611
Salinger got to be
a detective,
742
00:42:26,613 --> 00:42:28,713
detective in uniform.
743
00:42:28,715 --> 00:42:30,815
His basic job was to chase down
the bad guys,
744
00:42:30,817 --> 00:42:33,551
whether they be Nazis pretending
to be civilians,
745
00:42:33,553 --> 00:42:37,055
whether it was collaborators,
black market operators.
746
00:42:37,057 --> 00:42:41,459
He actually got to look into
the dark heart of Nazi Germany,
747
00:42:41,461 --> 00:42:43,128
and interrogate the people
748
00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:46,522
who committed the greatest
crimes in human history
749
00:42:46,523 --> 00:42:47,823
and bring them to justice.
750
00:42:48,746 --> 00:42:50,835
There has been a rumor for many years
751
00:42:50,835 --> 00:42:53,656
that one of the people
Salinger arrested
752
00:42:53,756 --> 00:42:56,545
and interviewed was a
women by the name of Sylvia.
753
00:42:56,545 --> 00:43:00,141
She was reported to have been
a member of the Nazi party.
754
00:43:00,143 --> 00:43:04,111
Salinger and Sylvia supposedly
fell in love and married.
755
00:43:04,113 --> 00:43:07,114
This has led me to travel
in Germany,
756
00:43:07,116 --> 00:43:09,917
following the footsteps
of Salinger
757
00:43:09,919 --> 00:43:13,220
to various places
where they could have lived.
758
00:43:13,222 --> 00:43:17,158
The hospital in Nuremburg where
Salinger was treated
759
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,026
for his nervous breakdown,
760
00:43:19,028 --> 00:43:20,494
but we drew blanks.
761
00:43:20,496 --> 00:43:23,097
So then we hit upon the idea
of looking at
762
00:43:23,099 --> 00:43:25,466
the passenger arrival forms
off ships
763
00:43:25,468 --> 00:43:27,802
arriving in the United States
in May and June
764
00:43:27,804 --> 00:43:30,004
of 1946.
765
00:43:30,006 --> 00:43:31,338
Eureka!
766
00:43:31,340 --> 00:43:33,808
When I first saw it,
I couldn't believe it.
767
00:43:33,810 --> 00:43:36,510
I actually jumped up and people
had to shush me.
768
00:43:36,512 --> 00:43:40,247
But there it is, we have
the passenger arrival form.
769
00:43:40,249 --> 00:43:44,752
Sylvia Louise Salinger --
age 27.
770
00:43:44,754 --> 00:43:48,389
Place of birth --
Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
771
00:43:48,391 --> 00:43:53,294
Now we know that woman really
was married to Salinger.
772
00:43:53,296 --> 00:43:56,430
American soldiers
were not allowed
773
00:43:56,432 --> 00:44:00,501
to marry German nationals
during 1945 and 1946.
774
00:44:00,503 --> 00:44:02,036
Salinger took enormous risk.
775
00:44:02,038 --> 00:44:04,104
He could have been
court-martialed.
776
00:44:04,106 --> 00:44:06,407
MAN: It's absolutely fascinating
that he
777
00:44:06,409 --> 00:44:08,342
would actually do the opposite
778
00:44:08,344 --> 00:44:11,478
of what any so-called decent
American would do,
779
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,848
which was to go and marry
a Nazi.
780
00:44:15,784 --> 00:44:20,821
It suggests that he really got
to a place intellectually --
781
00:44:20,823 --> 00:44:23,357
and emotionally, importantly,
782
00:44:23,359 --> 00:44:27,628
emotionally -- whereby he could
identify and sympathize
783
00:44:27,630 --> 00:44:30,764
with the victim
and perpetrator.
784
00:44:34,769 --> 00:44:39,640
HADLEY: He told me his first
wife was extraordinary.
785
00:44:39,642 --> 00:44:43,911
That they had a telepathic
communication
786
00:44:43,913 --> 00:44:45,346
and they met in dreams.
787
00:44:47,716 --> 00:44:50,784
MAN:
When Salinger brought Sylvia
home to his parents' house,
788
00:44:50,786 --> 00:44:53,687
she walked into
this Jewish household
789
00:44:53,689 --> 00:44:55,923
with a Nazi party affiliation.
790
00:44:55,925 --> 00:44:58,692
How he ever thought this would
work is beyond me.
791
00:44:58,694 --> 00:45:02,096
MAN: My father was best man at
J.D. Salinger's first wedding,
792
00:45:02,098 --> 00:45:05,532
and my father later on received
a letter from Salinger.
793
00:45:05,534 --> 00:45:06,834
"Sylvia and I separated
794
00:45:06,836 --> 00:45:08,769
less than a month after we
returned to the States.
795
00:45:08,771 --> 00:45:11,739
If I gave you all the reasons
for the separation,
796
00:45:11,741 --> 00:45:13,874
I would have to go straight back
to the beginning,
797
00:45:13,876 --> 00:45:16,110
as most of the details would
probably depress you.
798
00:45:16,112 --> 00:45:17,611
Almost from the beginning,
799
00:45:17,613 --> 00:45:20,848
we were desperately unsuited to
and unhappy with each other."
800
00:45:20,850 --> 00:45:23,350
MAN: Within months,
Salinger filed
801
00:45:23,352 --> 00:45:27,254
to have the marriage annulled
on the grounds of deception.
802
00:45:27,256 --> 00:45:30,024
Which may indicate that he found
something troubling
803
00:45:30,026 --> 00:45:31,859
about Sylvia's past
in Germany.
804
00:45:36,298 --> 00:45:38,599
The very next story that he
submitted to the magazine
805
00:45:38,601 --> 00:45:40,134
was one called
"The Bananafish."
806
00:45:44,139 --> 00:45:46,206
MAN: Salinger comes back
from the war,
807
00:45:46,208 --> 00:45:51,879
aware that the devastated
and shell-shocked tone
808
00:45:51,881 --> 00:45:53,614
is his tone.
809
00:45:56,284 --> 00:46:01,422
Just as the Civil War could give
us Mark Twain and Whitman,
810
00:46:01,424 --> 00:46:04,758
World War II gave us Salinger.
811
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,697
MAN: Jerry always said, "You
have to get away from fantasy.
812
00:46:09,699 --> 00:46:11,598
Write about something you know.
813
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,835
There is no passion otherwise."
814
00:46:14,837 --> 00:46:16,303
I remember his words.
815
00:46:16,305 --> 00:46:18,706
"There's no fire
between the words."
816
00:46:26,047 --> 00:46:29,650
"A Perfect Day for
Bananafish" is very much
817
00:46:29,652 --> 00:46:31,251
about a man who's suffering from
818
00:46:31,253 --> 00:46:33,454
having gone through
the Second World War.
819
00:46:33,456 --> 00:46:36,223
Seymour Glass, on the beach,
820
00:46:36,225 --> 00:46:39,226
talking with a charming
little girl,
821
00:46:39,228 --> 00:46:40,461
goes to his room,
822
00:46:40,463 --> 00:46:42,963
lies down on the bed beside
his sleeping wife,
823
00:46:42,965 --> 00:46:45,299
and shoots himself
through the head.
824
00:46:48,503 --> 00:46:51,071
[Big Band music plays]
825
00:46:55,477 --> 00:46:59,480
¶ You got to accentuate
the positive... ¶
826
00:46:59,482 --> 00:47:03,384
MAN: The story made
a huge splash.
827
00:47:03,386 --> 00:47:05,552
And it signaled a success
streak,
828
00:47:05,554 --> 00:47:07,021
a winning streak
for Salinger.
829
00:47:07,023 --> 00:47:10,491
HADLEY: Everyone was totally
captivated
830
00:47:10,493 --> 00:47:12,259
by his writing.
831
00:47:12,261 --> 00:47:15,362
We'd call each other on
the telephone about it,
832
00:47:15,364 --> 00:47:17,531
when the New Yorker came,
833
00:47:17,533 --> 00:47:20,134
and, "Have you read this?
Have you seen this?
834
00:47:20,136 --> 00:47:21,502
Isn't it wonderful?"
835
00:47:21,504 --> 00:47:23,003
MAN: People whom I didn't
even know
836
00:47:23,005 --> 00:47:26,173
were talking about,
"Did you read that story?
837
00:47:26,175 --> 00:47:29,243
That little girl --
isn't that remarkable?"
838
00:47:29,245 --> 00:47:31,078
It caused a great buzz.
839
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,480
MAN: 1948 was really
a turning point
840
00:47:33,482 --> 00:47:35,682
for Salinger
and the New Yorker.
841
00:47:35,684 --> 00:47:37,951
He published "A Perfect Day
for Bananafish"
842
00:47:37,953 --> 00:47:39,153
and two other stories.
843
00:47:39,155 --> 00:47:40,888
And from then on,
844
00:47:40,890 --> 00:47:44,058
he was known and identified
as a New Yorker writer.
845
00:47:44,060 --> 00:47:45,459
And Jerry was thrilled.
846
00:47:45,461 --> 00:47:47,661
He told me how much it had
meant to him
847
00:47:47,663 --> 00:47:49,630
to be published
by the New Yorker.
848
00:47:49,632 --> 00:47:53,734
Salinger was considered really
a shooting star.
849
00:47:53,736 --> 00:47:57,171
MAN: A New Yorker contributor
in Hollywood said,
850
00:47:57,173 --> 00:47:59,606
"Everybody out here talks
about Salinger.
851
00:47:59,608 --> 00:48:02,242
My god, that guy is good.
852
00:48:02,244 --> 00:48:04,978
Evenings are spent --
and this is on the level --
853
00:48:04,980 --> 00:48:06,947
discussing the guy
and his work."
854
00:48:06,949 --> 00:48:08,982
I would ask people who worked
with him,
855
00:48:08,984 --> 00:48:11,318
"Did he have a reclusive
personality back then?
856
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:12,453
Did you ever see him?"
857
00:48:12,455 --> 00:48:14,521
They said, "Oh, we saw him
all the time.
858
00:48:14,523 --> 00:48:15,889
We talked to him, you know.
859
00:48:15,891 --> 00:48:17,558
He was very warm.
He was Jerry."
860
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,294
MAN: He would call up
and say,
861
00:48:20,296 --> 00:48:22,529
"I'm going to
the Blue Angel tonight.
862
00:48:22,531 --> 00:48:23,664
Wanna come along?"
863
00:48:23,666 --> 00:48:25,933
So we would go to
the Blue Angel,
864
00:48:25,935 --> 00:48:27,367
which was a nightspot,
865
00:48:27,369 --> 00:48:30,270
where young talent
would try out.
866
00:48:30,272 --> 00:48:33,440
HADLEY: When we were at
the Blue Angel together,
867
00:48:33,442 --> 00:48:35,542
he was very sociable.
868
00:48:35,544 --> 00:48:38,445
He talked to people, he even
talked to the performers.
869
00:48:38,447 --> 00:48:40,747
MAN: Jerry was a different
person there.
870
00:48:40,749 --> 00:48:43,517
Jerry had a wonderful time
because he'd identified
871
00:48:43,519 --> 00:48:46,353
with these types who were
trying to make their mark
872
00:48:46,355 --> 00:48:49,423
just as he was trying to make
his mark with his writing,
873
00:48:49,425 --> 00:48:52,292
and he was very charitable,
he was very encouraging.
874
00:48:52,294 --> 00:48:54,361
But he wouldn't encourage
a young writer.
875
00:48:54,363 --> 00:48:56,396
That was different.
That was competition.
876
00:48:56,398 --> 00:48:58,699
He was pretty suave
with the women.
877
00:48:58,701 --> 00:49:00,534
He used to lie to them
and tell them
878
00:49:00,536 --> 00:49:03,670
he was a goalie for
a Montreal soccer team.
879
00:49:03,672 --> 00:49:06,874
But it was a very Platonic
"going out."
880
00:49:06,876 --> 00:49:11,345
I mean, he didn't try to kiss me
or hug me or squeeze me
881
00:49:11,347 --> 00:49:14,515
or anything the way
other people did.
882
00:49:14,517 --> 00:49:17,084
Maybe I was too old for him.
883
00:49:17,086 --> 00:49:20,487
I think he liked younger girls.
884
00:49:20,489 --> 00:49:23,524
I was only 7 years younger.
885
00:49:23,526 --> 00:49:27,828
I think maybe he preferred them
12 years younger.
886
00:49:27,830 --> 00:49:29,563
Or younger than that.
887
00:49:29,565 --> 00:49:32,566
¶ ...don't mess
with Mr. In-Between ¶¶
888
00:49:50,084 --> 00:49:52,219
We were in Daytona Beach.
889
00:49:52,221 --> 00:49:56,056
And I was sitting at
this rather crowded pool
890
00:49:56,058 --> 00:49:57,758
reading "Wuthering Heights."
891
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,661
And this man sitting next
to me said,
892
00:50:00,663 --> 00:50:03,697
"How is Heathcliff?
How is Heathcliff?"
893
00:50:03,699 --> 00:50:07,768
And I turned to him and I said,
"Heathcliff is troubled."
894
00:50:07,770 --> 00:50:11,205
He was in this terrycloth
bathrobe.
895
00:50:11,207 --> 00:50:14,841
He was very white
and his legs were white.
896
00:50:14,843 --> 00:50:18,045
He didn't look like he belonged
at this pool.
897
00:50:18,047 --> 00:50:20,414
MAN: It's the classic
veteran syndrome.
898
00:50:20,416 --> 00:50:24,585
You come back from a war
and see all around you
899
00:50:24,587 --> 00:50:27,821
people that don't understand,
don't have a clue
900
00:50:27,823 --> 00:50:29,957
about the first thing
that you did
901
00:50:29,959 --> 00:50:32,526
when you were over there
rather than here.
902
00:50:32,528 --> 00:50:37,030
His mind seemed to skitter
over various topics.
903
00:50:37,032 --> 00:50:39,099
He told me he was a writer.
904
00:50:39,101 --> 00:50:42,269
That he had published stories
in the New Yorker.
905
00:50:42,271 --> 00:50:44,938
And he felt that was
his finest accomplishment.
906
00:50:44,940 --> 00:50:47,708
We sat there for
quite a while.
907
00:50:47,710 --> 00:50:50,510
And finally he asked me,
"How old are you?"
908
00:50:50,512 --> 00:50:52,412
And I said, "14."
909
00:50:52,414 --> 00:50:56,016
And I do remember very clearly
his grimace.
910
00:50:56,018 --> 00:50:57,651
He said he was 30.
911
00:50:57,653 --> 00:51:00,821
He made a point of saying
that he was 30
912
00:51:00,823 --> 00:51:05,459
on January 1st, so that,
in a way, he was just 30.
913
00:51:05,461 --> 00:51:08,562
I finally left, and as I was
going away,
914
00:51:08,564 --> 00:51:10,797
he told me his name was Jerry.
915
00:51:10,799 --> 00:51:15,936
I saw him the next day
and we began these walks.
916
00:51:15,938 --> 00:51:20,641
We would walk down the beach
to this old, rickety pier.
917
00:51:20,643 --> 00:51:23,944
We did this every afternoon
for, say, about 10 days.
918
00:51:23,946 --> 00:51:26,747
We walked very slowly
down to the pier.
919
00:51:26,749 --> 00:51:29,149
It was as though
he was escorting me.
920
00:51:29,151 --> 00:51:32,653
And he would always have
his left shoulder behind me
921
00:51:32,655 --> 00:51:35,122
and lean down to hear
what I had to say.
922
00:51:35,124 --> 00:51:37,591
He was very deaf
in his right ear.
923
00:51:37,593 --> 00:51:39,993
I think something to do
with the war.
924
00:51:39,995 --> 00:51:42,696
But Jerry Salinger
925
00:51:42,698 --> 00:51:46,400
listened like you were the most
important person in the world.
926
00:51:46,402 --> 00:51:48,902
And he wanted to know
about my family.
927
00:51:48,904 --> 00:51:51,104
He wanted
to know about my school.
928
00:51:51,106 --> 00:51:53,840
He wanted to know about
what games I played.
929
00:51:53,842 --> 00:51:56,977
He wanted to know who I was
reading, what I was studying.
930
00:51:56,979 --> 00:52:00,414
He wanted to know whether
I believed in God.
931
00:52:00,416 --> 00:52:02,716
Did I want to be
an actress?
932
00:52:02,718 --> 00:52:04,618
He wanted to know
everything about me.
933
00:52:04,620 --> 00:52:10,190
We would end up at the pier
and we'd sit.
934
00:52:10,192 --> 00:52:12,326
We'd buy popcorn
and we'd buy ice cream
935
00:52:12,328 --> 00:52:15,462
and we'd feed popcorn
to the sea gulls.
936
00:52:15,464 --> 00:52:17,864
He was having
a wonderful time.
937
00:52:17,866 --> 00:52:22,502
MAN: There's an image
from "Esmé" which haunts me,
938
00:52:22,504 --> 00:52:24,971
and it's that image late
in the story where...
939
00:52:24,973 --> 00:52:28,508
Sergeant X feels his mind
dislodge itself
940
00:52:28,510 --> 00:52:30,277
and begin to teeter,
941
00:52:30,279 --> 00:52:32,779
and he compares that to luggage
942
00:52:32,781 --> 00:52:34,781
on and overhead rack
that's unstable.
943
00:52:34,783 --> 00:52:37,584
Think of "For Esmé--
with Love and Squalor."
944
00:52:37,586 --> 00:52:40,721
Surely there is no better story
in the half-century
945
00:52:40,723 --> 00:52:42,522
on either side of that novel.
946
00:52:42,524 --> 00:52:45,125
You're in a tea shop
in England.
947
00:52:45,127 --> 00:52:49,396
And an American soldier
is on his way to war,
948
00:52:49,398 --> 00:52:52,099
and he finds himself
explaining himself
949
00:52:52,101 --> 00:52:55,435
to a 12-year-old girl,
whose manners are too good.
950
00:52:55,437 --> 00:52:57,871
And this wish that she
expresses
951
00:52:57,873 --> 00:53:02,776
that he should return
from the battle
952
00:53:02,778 --> 00:53:05,812
with all his, she says
"f-a-c-u-l-t-i-e-s" intact.
953
00:53:05,814 --> 00:53:07,280
With all his faculties
intact.
954
00:53:07,282 --> 00:53:10,650
And then he makes this abrupt,
kind of shattering
955
00:53:10,652 --> 00:53:16,123
cinematic cut to this soldier
after he's been to battle,
956
00:53:16,125 --> 00:53:19,860
writing a letter to this Esmé,
and he has
957
00:53:19,862 --> 00:53:22,462
barely clung to
his f-a-c-u-l-t-i-e-s.
958
00:53:22,464 --> 00:53:25,932
He's barely hung onto his
intelligence and his powers
959
00:53:25,934 --> 00:53:28,402
and he's going to return
to America
960
00:53:28,404 --> 00:53:30,837
and he's going to be
J.D. Salinger,
961
00:53:30,839 --> 00:53:32,038
and he's gonna write.
962
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,842
WOMAN: I would do cartwheels
on the beach.
963
00:53:35,844 --> 00:53:37,811
And then I would whip off
into the ocean,
964
00:53:37,813 --> 00:53:39,246
and he would love that.
965
00:53:39,248 --> 00:53:42,015
I was fresh and new
like a breath of spring.
966
00:53:42,017 --> 00:53:44,451
And I knew
I brought him joy.
967
00:53:44,453 --> 00:53:49,489
I think he felt it was as close
to a perfect...
968
00:53:49,491 --> 00:53:54,694
maybe even direct moment
that he'd had,
969
00:53:54,696 --> 00:53:56,029
maybe ever had.
970
00:53:56,031 --> 00:53:59,933
These perfect moments,
they got him away
971
00:53:59,935 --> 00:54:01,935
from his melancholy,
972
00:54:01,937 --> 00:54:04,171
his angst about the war.
973
00:54:04,173 --> 00:54:07,474
On his very last day,
he asked me
974
00:54:07,476 --> 00:54:09,743
would it be all right
for him to write me?
975
00:54:09,745 --> 00:54:11,011
And I said, "Of course."
976
00:54:11,013 --> 00:54:14,915
He also said,
"I'd like to kiss you goodbye,
977
00:54:14,917 --> 00:54:16,883
but you know I can't."
978
00:54:16,885 --> 00:54:20,487
And then Jerry went up
to my mother
979
00:54:20,489 --> 00:54:22,856
and said very seriously,
980
00:54:22,858 --> 00:54:26,593
"I am going to marry
your daughter."
981
00:54:30,731 --> 00:54:36,803
Years later, he told me that he
could not have written "Esmé"
982
00:54:36,805 --> 00:54:40,006
had he not met me.
983
00:54:43,811 --> 00:54:46,513
Well, I remember talking once
to William Maxwell
984
00:54:46,515 --> 00:54:49,082
about what it was like
to work with Salinger.
985
00:54:49,084 --> 00:54:51,384
He said, "Salinger was
very specific.
986
00:54:51,386 --> 00:54:53,053
He was a very careful writer.
987
00:54:53,055 --> 00:54:56,189
He knew what he wanted, even
down to his punctuation."
988
00:54:56,191 --> 00:54:58,492
And Maxwell told me the story
of a piece
989
00:54:58,494 --> 00:55:01,094
that Salinger had written
that had been edited,
990
00:55:01,096 --> 00:55:03,063
had gone all through
the process,
991
00:55:03,065 --> 00:55:04,631
down to the final page proof,
992
00:55:04,633 --> 00:55:07,534
when they were getting ready
to publish the magazine,
993
00:55:07,536 --> 00:55:09,936
and a final proofreader found
a spot
994
00:55:09,938 --> 00:55:12,205
that he felt like
needed a comma.
995
00:55:12,207 --> 00:55:14,808
He went to Maxwell, and Maxwell
looked at it and said,
996
00:55:14,810 --> 00:55:17,143
"Well, it looked like it needed
a comma to me."
997
00:55:17,145 --> 00:55:18,945
They couldn't find Salinger.
998
00:55:18,947 --> 00:55:20,847
So they went ahead
and put the comma in.
999
00:55:20,849 --> 00:55:23,683
And when the story came out,
Maxwell said
1000
00:55:23,685 --> 00:55:26,520
Salinger was melancholy
about that comma.
1001
00:55:26,522 --> 00:55:32,492
Salinger's idea of perfection
is really perfection.
1002
00:55:32,494 --> 00:55:35,729
And it shouldn't be
tampered with.
1003
00:55:35,731 --> 00:55:40,634
MAN: Samuel Goldwyn was one of
the original Hollywood moguls.
1004
00:55:40,636 --> 00:55:44,738
And he became famous for being
the most literary
1005
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:46,740
of the Hollywood producers.
1006
00:55:46,742 --> 00:55:49,609
And it's a great irony
because he was probably
1007
00:55:49,611 --> 00:55:52,512
the most illiterate of
the Hollywood producers.
1008
00:55:52,514 --> 00:55:56,550
The Epstein brothers,
who had written "Casablanca,"
1009
00:55:56,552 --> 00:55:59,719
they came to Goldwyn with
an idea for a movie
1010
00:55:59,721 --> 00:56:04,024
based on a short story they had
recently read in the New Yorker.
1011
00:56:04,026 --> 00:56:06,927
And the story was "Uncle Wiggily
in Connecticut."
1012
00:56:06,929 --> 00:56:10,063
And the author was
a young J.D. Salinger,
1013
00:56:10,065 --> 00:56:14,234
who was just being talked about
a great deal.
1014
00:56:14,236 --> 00:56:16,369
So this appealed to Goldwyn,
1015
00:56:16,371 --> 00:56:19,406
who bought the rights
and turned it into a movie
1016
00:56:19,408 --> 00:56:21,074
called "My Foolish Heart."
1017
00:56:23,210 --> 00:56:27,147
I think, every time an author
sells something to Hollywood,
1018
00:56:27,149 --> 00:56:30,884
part of him says to himself,
"Well...
1019
00:56:30,886 --> 00:56:35,255
my work is so special --
mine won't get changed.
1020
00:56:35,257 --> 00:56:37,490
You know, and certainly
they're not going to rape it,"
1021
00:56:37,492 --> 00:56:41,294
as I think Hollywood did to
"Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut."
1022
00:56:41,296 --> 00:56:43,663
Gosh, what about the rest
of your life, El?
1023
00:56:43,665 --> 00:56:46,232
Please, darling,
don't you be crazy --
1024
00:56:46,234 --> 00:56:48,435
Mary Jane,
I'll never tell him.
1025
00:56:48,437 --> 00:56:54,541
The beauty of the short story is
how much Salinger left out.
1026
00:56:54,543 --> 00:56:58,445
And the great delight
for the Epsteins was
1027
00:56:58,447 --> 00:57:00,146
how much
they could put in.
1028
00:57:00,148 --> 00:57:02,215
That's a very aristocratic ear.
1029
00:57:02,217 --> 00:57:06,720
Salinger's response was
extremely violent, and he vowed
1030
00:57:06,722 --> 00:57:10,123
never to sell another work
to Hollywood again.
1031
00:57:10,125 --> 00:57:12,192
It's that protectiveness
1032
00:57:12,194 --> 00:57:16,229
that actually led to the end
of our friendship.
1033
00:57:16,231 --> 00:57:19,532
Eventually, I got a job
as an editor
1034
00:57:19,534 --> 00:57:21,735
at Cosmopolitan magazine,
1035
00:57:21,737 --> 00:57:23,670
which then was
a literary magazine,
1036
00:57:23,672 --> 00:57:25,805
before Helen Gurley Brown
got hold of it
1037
00:57:25,807 --> 00:57:27,340
for "Sex and the Single Girl."
1038
00:57:27,342 --> 00:57:29,643
And in the course
of our poker game,
1039
00:57:29,645 --> 00:57:31,811
Jerry handed me a story
and said,
1040
00:57:31,813 --> 00:57:35,048
"Here, I think this is a good
story for Cosmopolitan."
1041
00:57:35,050 --> 00:57:36,216
It was called
1042
00:57:36,218 --> 00:57:39,219
"A Scratchy Needle
on a Phonograph Record."
1043
00:57:39,221 --> 00:57:42,689
And he said, "But one thing --
you tell your editor,
1044
00:57:42,691 --> 00:57:45,458
not one word should be changed,
and that's up to you.
1045
00:57:45,460 --> 00:57:48,028
You've gotta watch it,
because they like to cut
1046
00:57:48,030 --> 00:57:50,163
and they like to make it
fit a space.
1047
00:57:50,165 --> 00:57:52,265
If they do that,
then there's no go."
1048
00:57:52,267 --> 00:57:53,900
He attached a note to it.
1049
00:57:53,902 --> 00:57:56,703
"Either as is
or not at all."
1050
00:57:56,705 --> 00:57:58,571
And it was all fine
1051
00:57:58,573 --> 00:58:03,076
but I forgot to check on
the title that they gave it.
1052
00:58:03,078 --> 00:58:07,180
Instead of "Scratchy Needle
on a Phonograph Record,"
1053
00:58:07,182 --> 00:58:10,684
they changed it to
"Blue Melody."
1054
00:58:10,686 --> 00:58:13,186
I thought, well,
the best thing I can do
1055
00:58:13,188 --> 00:58:15,755
is meet this head-on.
1056
00:58:15,757 --> 00:58:18,191
So I called him and I said,
1057
00:58:18,193 --> 00:58:23,063
"Can we have a beer at
Chumley's tonight," or whatever.
1058
00:58:23,065 --> 00:58:25,899
And I met him,
and I had the magazine.
1059
00:58:25,901 --> 00:58:30,270
And I had a tough time sort of
getting around to the topic.
1060
00:58:30,272 --> 00:58:33,606
And after hemming and hawing,
he even said,
1061
00:58:33,608 --> 00:58:36,443
"Get to the point.
What's bothering you?"
1062
00:58:36,445 --> 00:58:38,845
And I said, "Jerry, I have
to explain this to you.
1063
00:58:38,847 --> 00:58:44,984
I really very carefully attended
to the prose that you wrote,
1064
00:58:44,986 --> 00:58:47,120
so that nothing was changed.
1065
00:58:47,122 --> 00:58:50,423
But unbeknownst to me -- and I
have no control over this
1066
00:58:50,425 --> 00:58:52,792
because I am not
the fiction editor --
1067
00:58:52,794 --> 00:58:55,095
they put a different title on."
1068
00:58:55,097 --> 00:58:57,197
So he grabbed the magazine
out of my hand
1069
00:58:57,199 --> 00:58:59,265
and he looked at it.
1070
00:58:59,267 --> 00:59:01,868
And his face
1071
00:59:01,870 --> 00:59:03,503
turned...
1072
00:59:03,505 --> 00:59:05,572
apoplectic red.
1073
00:59:09,009 --> 00:59:13,546
And just spewed, uh...
1074
00:59:13,548 --> 00:59:16,983
an angry denunciation of me.
1075
00:59:16,985 --> 00:59:20,153
What kind of a friend was I?
How did I let this happen?
1076
00:59:20,155 --> 00:59:22,489
And I tried to get a word in
to say,
1077
00:59:22,491 --> 00:59:26,192
"You know I have no control over
what's done in the final edit--"
1078
00:59:26,194 --> 00:59:28,128
He said,
"You had to have control!
1079
00:59:28,130 --> 00:59:31,498
I told you you're in charge
of it and I trusted you with it
1080
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:35,034
and I'll never trust you again
on anything," and he walked out.
1081
00:59:35,036 --> 00:59:37,137
That's it,
left me with my beer,
1082
00:59:37,139 --> 00:59:39,172
sitting at the table.
1083
00:59:39,174 --> 00:59:41,274
And he took the magazine
with him.
1084
00:59:50,317 --> 00:59:54,154
When we next met,
after Daytona,
1085
00:59:54,156 --> 00:59:56,222
was in the spring,
1086
00:59:56,224 --> 00:59:59,359
when I was in New York
with my family.
1087
00:59:59,361 --> 01:00:01,060
I was 14
and I can remember
1088
01:00:01,062 --> 01:00:02,896
exactly what I had on.
1089
01:00:02,898 --> 01:00:06,266
I had a little tan suit on,
1090
01:00:06,268 --> 01:00:08,268
with little white gloves,
1091
01:00:08,270 --> 01:00:10,069
and a little straw hat.
1092
01:00:10,071 --> 01:00:12,572
And we were walking down
a street
1093
01:00:12,574 --> 01:00:15,642
and the straw hat blew off,
and I thought,
1094
01:00:15,644 --> 01:00:18,778
"Oh, how embarrassing," and...
1095
01:00:18,780 --> 01:00:21,548
he went tearing down
that street,
1096
01:00:21,550 --> 01:00:23,616
laughing and chortling.
1097
01:00:23,618 --> 01:00:25,051
He came back
1098
01:00:25,053 --> 01:00:29,889
and formally gave me my hat,
which was a little bit bashed,
1099
01:00:29,891 --> 01:00:32,458
and put it back on my head.
1100
01:00:32,460 --> 01:00:37,063
And he laughed about it
for about 15 minutes.
1101
01:00:37,065 --> 01:00:40,800
This is one of the letters
that Jerry sent me.
1102
01:00:42,570 --> 01:00:46,472
He was, at the time, writing
"The Catcher in the Rye."
1103
01:00:46,474 --> 01:00:48,708
He felt nervous
1104
01:00:48,710 --> 01:00:51,311
about Holden's language.
1105
01:00:51,313 --> 01:00:53,012
He was worried
1106
01:00:53,014 --> 01:00:56,516
about how it was going to be
received by people,
1107
01:00:56,518 --> 01:00:58,852
particularly people
he loved.
1108
01:00:58,854 --> 01:01:02,488
He wanted people to know,
absolutely,
1109
01:01:02,490 --> 01:01:06,359
that he was trying to write
a good book,
1110
01:01:06,361 --> 01:01:09,963
not just a best-seller,
a good book.
1111
01:01:16,270 --> 01:01:19,706
MAN: Along came the gentleman,
1112
01:01:19,708 --> 01:01:22,275
about six years younger
than I was.
1113
01:01:22,277 --> 01:01:25,144
And he had a big black dog,
then he told me
1114
01:01:25,146 --> 01:01:27,881
that all he would be doing
was writing.
1115
01:01:27,883 --> 01:01:30,650
No parties, no visitors.
He was a loner.
1116
01:01:30,652 --> 01:01:32,485
The perfect tenant for me.
1117
01:01:32,487 --> 01:01:35,521
And that's how I met a man
called J.D. Salinger.
1118
01:01:54,608 --> 01:01:58,578
And if his typewriter was going,
I knew enough
1119
01:01:58,580 --> 01:02:00,647
not to intrude into it.
1120
01:02:00,649 --> 01:02:02,849
This was his own world.
1121
01:02:17,331 --> 01:02:19,966
MAN: George Orwell once said
that writing a book
1122
01:02:19,968 --> 01:02:22,001
is a horrible, exhausting
struggle.
1123
01:02:22,003 --> 01:02:24,170
One would never undertake
such a thing
1124
01:02:24,172 --> 01:02:26,306
if one were not driven
by some demon.
1125
01:02:26,308 --> 01:02:31,311
And it looks to me that he had
demons that he was exorcising.
1126
01:02:36,183 --> 01:02:39,786
MAN: He came home and wrote
about this adolescent
1127
01:02:39,788 --> 01:02:41,321
at war with society.
1128
01:02:41,323 --> 01:02:45,291
MAN: That's when he found
the real Jerry Salinger voice,
1129
01:02:45,293 --> 01:02:47,460
so that he was Holden Caulfield
1130
01:02:47,462 --> 01:02:50,797
and he was able to transmit that
onto the page,
1131
01:02:50,799 --> 01:02:54,667
so that you get a real feel
of the frustration
1132
01:02:54,669 --> 01:02:57,370
of every kid that age.
1133
01:02:57,372 --> 01:03:01,107
WOMAN: Jerry said there was
a great deal of Holden in him.
1134
01:03:01,109 --> 01:03:04,444
MAN: Holden was rejecting
the whole world of his parents.
1135
01:03:04,446 --> 01:03:07,080
MAN: He hated these prep schools
that he had gone to.
1136
01:03:07,082 --> 01:03:09,282
WOMAN: He had disdain
for all these people.
1137
01:03:09,284 --> 01:03:10,750
MAN: Wealth, fame, career,
1138
01:03:10,752 --> 01:03:12,685
possessions, possessions,
possessions.
1139
01:03:12,687 --> 01:03:15,989
Salinger saw America
as this shopping center
1140
01:03:15,991 --> 01:03:18,491
that has lost
its mind.
1141
01:03:18,493 --> 01:03:21,461
It's lost its soul.
1142
01:03:21,463 --> 01:03:23,930
MAN: He hated phoniness.
1143
01:03:23,932 --> 01:03:25,765
He just hated it.
1144
01:03:25,767 --> 01:03:28,768
MAN: Is it possible to grow up
and not sell out?
1145
01:03:28,770 --> 01:03:30,269
MAN: They're all there,
1146
01:03:30,271 --> 01:03:33,272
all of the Salinger diatribes
and all of his prejudices.
1147
01:03:33,274 --> 01:03:35,375
They're all in that book.
1148
01:03:35,377 --> 01:03:39,679
MAN: He didn't spend just
10 years writing that book.
1149
01:03:39,681 --> 01:03:42,048
He spent 30 years writing
"Catch in the Rye,"
1150
01:03:42,050 --> 01:03:43,850
because everything in his life
1151
01:03:43,852 --> 01:03:46,552
up to that point
was funneled into that book.
1152
01:03:46,554 --> 01:03:50,490
WOMAN: A book takes
the time that it needs,
1153
01:03:50,492 --> 01:03:53,026
and you don't have
a choice about it.
1154
01:03:53,028 --> 01:03:58,197
But don't worry -- novels grow
in the dark.
1155
01:04:05,105 --> 01:04:06,839
MAN: It was a channeling.
1156
01:04:06,841 --> 01:04:12,445
MAN: It's some kind of miracle
of ink making flesh and blood.
1157
01:04:12,447 --> 01:04:17,216
You see the artist at the peak
of his powers.
1158
01:04:17,218 --> 01:04:20,053
WOMAN: Holden always imagined
millions of little kids
1159
01:04:20,055 --> 01:04:21,487
running in a field of rye
1160
01:04:21,489 --> 01:04:24,290
and having to save them from
going over the cliff.
1161
01:04:24,292 --> 01:04:26,826
The cliff of what?
The cliff towards adulthood.
1162
01:04:28,362 --> 01:04:31,264
MAN: It was an accumulation of
everything he had to say.
1163
01:04:31,266 --> 01:04:34,400
MAN: The great subversive,
antiestablishment
1164
01:04:34,402 --> 01:04:36,069
book of all time.
1165
01:04:43,110 --> 01:04:45,711
MAN: Salinger met with
an important editor,
1166
01:04:45,713 --> 01:04:47,747
Robert Giroux
at Harcourt Brace.
1167
01:04:47,749 --> 01:04:51,784
Giroux wanted him to publish
a collection of short stories.
1168
01:04:51,786 --> 01:04:54,520
He didn't hear anything from
Salinger for quite a while.
1169
01:04:58,725 --> 01:05:02,261
One morning,
Salinger walks in and said,
1170
01:05:02,263 --> 01:05:04,030
"You know, I don't think
we should publish
1171
01:05:04,032 --> 01:05:06,632
that collection
of short stories.
1172
01:05:06,634 --> 01:05:10,069
What we need to do is publish
my novel about this kid
1173
01:05:10,071 --> 01:05:12,972
who goes to New York
and has an interesting time."
1174
01:05:12,974 --> 01:05:17,343
MAN: Eventually,
Salinger did deliver
1175
01:05:17,345 --> 01:05:22,315
"The Catcher in the Rye"
in manuscript to Bob Giroux.
1176
01:05:22,317 --> 01:05:24,350
MAN: Giroux read the novel.
1177
01:05:24,352 --> 01:05:26,519
He loved it.
He was impressed by it.
1178
01:05:26,521 --> 01:05:29,489
And he said that he'd be
proud to publish it.
1179
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:36,395
But then Giroux showed it
to his boss.
1180
01:05:36,397 --> 01:05:38,631
MAN: Eugene Reynal,
1181
01:05:38,633 --> 01:05:41,000
who looked at the novel
and said,
1182
01:05:41,002 --> 01:05:43,669
"This guy's crazy: we need
to have this rewritten."
1183
01:05:43,671 --> 01:05:47,740
MAN: Bob Giroux got Salinger
into his office,
1184
01:05:47,742 --> 01:05:50,543
spent a lot of time looking
out of his window
1185
01:05:50,545 --> 01:05:52,011
and down into Madison Avenue,
1186
01:05:52,013 --> 01:05:54,280
then turned to Salinger
and said,
1187
01:05:54,282 --> 01:05:57,150
"But, of course,
Holden Caulfield is crazy,"
1188
01:05:57,152 --> 01:06:00,019
and there was no response
from Salinger.
1189
01:06:00,021 --> 01:06:02,788
But then, on closer inspection,
1190
01:06:02,790 --> 01:06:06,292
Giroux saw that Salinger
was weeping.
1191
01:06:08,095 --> 01:06:09,762
And he rose, went down
1192
01:06:09,764 --> 01:06:13,065
into the ground floor
of the office building
1193
01:06:13,067 --> 01:06:14,634
and called his agent and said,
1194
01:06:14,636 --> 01:06:16,669
"Get me out of
this publishing house.
1195
01:06:16,671 --> 01:06:19,805
They think my Holden Caulfield
is crazy."
1196
01:06:19,807 --> 01:06:21,874
Holden was, in fact,
Jerry Salinger.
1197
01:06:21,876 --> 01:06:26,946
So, to be told
that he was crazy...
1198
01:06:26,948 --> 01:06:28,881
meant that he
had to take offense.
1199
01:06:28,883 --> 01:06:32,485
MAN: Salinger came
to William Maxwell
1200
01:06:32,487 --> 01:06:34,720
at the New Yorker magazine,
1201
01:06:34,722 --> 01:06:39,225
to read him the manuscript
in its entirety.
1202
01:06:39,227 --> 01:06:42,828
MAN: Salinger hoped to have
segments of the novel published
1203
01:06:42,830 --> 01:06:44,330
in the New Yorker.
1204
01:06:44,332 --> 01:06:48,834
"Dear Jerry, the vote here went,
sadly, against your novel.
1205
01:06:48,836 --> 01:06:52,371
To us, the notion that,
in one family,
1206
01:06:52,373 --> 01:06:53,539
the Caulfield family,
1207
01:06:53,541 --> 01:06:55,775
there are four such
extraordinary children
1208
01:06:55,777 --> 01:06:57,210
is not quite tenable.
1209
01:06:57,212 --> 01:07:01,113
Another point -- this story is
too ingenious and ingrown.
1210
01:07:01,115 --> 01:07:03,616
Prejudice hear against what
we call writer consciousness."
1211
01:07:03,618 --> 01:07:06,018
WOMAN: If he thought
everything was phoney,
1212
01:07:06,020 --> 01:07:08,721
he thought the New Yorker
was anything but phoney.
1213
01:07:08,723 --> 01:07:10,289
They had the greatest status.
1214
01:07:10,291 --> 01:07:13,392
If you're published there,
you are a real literary person.
1215
01:07:13,394 --> 01:07:15,928
So when that was rejected,
he wondered
1216
01:07:15,930 --> 01:07:17,697
if he was
a middlebrow writer.
1217
01:07:17,699 --> 01:07:19,465
Salinger began to lose hope.
1218
01:07:19,467 --> 01:07:21,200
How could you pass up
on "Catcher"?
1219
01:07:21,202 --> 01:07:23,769
MAN: Pages of
"The Catcher in the Rye"
1220
01:07:23,771 --> 01:07:25,605
stormed the beaches on D-Day.
1221
01:07:25,607 --> 01:07:29,208
They witnessed the atrocities
of the concentration camps.
1222
01:07:29,210 --> 01:07:31,877
There was not way that
J.D. Salinger
1223
01:07:31,879 --> 01:07:35,181
was going to rewrite
"The Catcher in the Rye."
1224
01:07:38,352 --> 01:07:41,087
A short time after that,
he placed the novel
1225
01:07:41,089 --> 01:07:43,756
with Little Brown, and I guess
we might say
1226
01:07:43,758 --> 01:07:45,625
the rest is publishing history.
1227
01:07:45,627 --> 01:07:49,428
The publication of
"Catcher in the Rye" in 1951
1228
01:07:49,430 --> 01:07:51,764
was something of a revolution.
1229
01:07:51,766 --> 01:07:54,100
[Dramatic soundtrack plays]
1230
01:08:31,038 --> 01:08:36,075
He really wanted to be up there,
beyond Hemingway.
1231
01:08:36,077 --> 01:08:38,778
Uh...
1232
01:08:38,780 --> 01:08:44,216
A figure of such brilliance
and wisdom...
1233
01:08:44,218 --> 01:08:47,286
that we can only think of
people like Shakespeare
1234
01:08:47,288 --> 01:08:49,088
and Beethoven.
1235
01:08:49,090 --> 01:08:51,857
And that novel
was so popular,
1236
01:08:51,859 --> 01:08:54,460
it meant he was
middlebrow.
1237
01:08:54,462 --> 01:08:56,729
Here he was thinking he's saying
the most original things
1238
01:08:56,731 --> 01:09:00,166
that nobody's ever thought of,
and the entire world's like,
1239
01:09:00,168 --> 01:09:02,435
"Yes, that's exactly
what we feel!"
1240
01:09:08,041 --> 01:09:09,575
How many people actually read
1241
01:09:09,577 --> 01:09:11,711
"The Catcher in the Rye"
in this class?
1242
01:09:11,713 --> 01:09:13,012
That's pretty amazing.
1243
01:09:13,014 --> 01:09:15,648
There's only one person who
hasn't read it out of 18.
1244
01:09:15,650 --> 01:09:20,152
[Speaking Spanish]
1245
01:09:20,154 --> 01:09:23,022
When you're a kid and you read
"Catcher in the Rye,"
1246
01:09:23,024 --> 01:09:26,625
you're just like, "Oh, my god,
somebody gets it."
1247
01:09:29,129 --> 01:09:31,997
You suddenly realize that you
are part of a larger world
1248
01:09:31,999 --> 01:09:35,234
and that that larger world is
no longer reliable.
1249
01:09:35,236 --> 01:09:37,136
I remember that being
the first book
1250
01:09:37,138 --> 01:09:39,505
you'd take with you
when you walked around.
1251
01:09:39,507 --> 01:09:40,873
Just wanted
to have it with you.
1252
01:09:40,875 --> 01:09:43,342
I think we just all thought,
"Here's this cool guy.
1253
01:09:43,344 --> 01:09:45,411
He's such a bad ass,
he's such a rebel.
1254
01:09:45,413 --> 01:09:47,113
I want to date him."
1255
01:09:47,115 --> 01:09:48,514
I think "Catcher in the Rye"
1256
01:09:48,516 --> 01:09:50,683
is one of the funniest
novels ever written.
1257
01:09:50,685 --> 01:09:54,687
I reread it and I started
highlighting lines that
1258
01:09:54,689 --> 01:09:58,391
I thought were great, and almost
the entire book was yellow.
1259
01:09:58,393 --> 01:10:00,493
MAN: It just crossed
all the lines, on every level,
1260
01:10:00,495 --> 01:10:02,128
between old and young,
rich and poor,
1261
01:10:02,130 --> 01:10:04,697
black and white,
male and female.
1262
01:10:04,699 --> 01:10:05,998
Everywhere.
1263
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,634
-Millions and millions...
-"Catcher in the Rye."
1264
01:10:08,636 --> 01:10:10,369
Great book.
Read it as a kid.
1265
01:10:10,371 --> 01:10:14,774
[Readers speaking
various languages]
1266
01:10:18,145 --> 01:10:20,312
"The Catcher in the Rye."
1267
01:10:23,183 --> 01:10:26,652
The enormous impact
of "Catcher in the Rye,"
1268
01:10:26,654 --> 01:10:28,921
overnight, transported him
1269
01:10:28,923 --> 01:10:32,224
into a major writer
and personality.
1270
01:10:32,226 --> 01:10:34,827
WOMAN:
I don't think he was prepared
for the instant celebrity
1271
01:10:34,829 --> 01:10:36,896
of "Catcher in the Rye"
when it became
1272
01:10:36,898 --> 01:10:39,165
a Book-of-the-Month Club,
and there was a fantastic,
1273
01:10:39,167 --> 01:10:41,000
very soulful picture
on the back of it,
1274
01:10:41,002 --> 01:10:43,469
and he asked that that picture
be removed from the book.
1275
01:10:43,471 --> 01:10:45,237
It was unheard of
that an author
1276
01:10:45,239 --> 01:10:48,107
would not want his picture
on the back of the book
1277
01:10:48,109 --> 01:10:50,042
or on the back flap
of the book
1278
01:10:50,044 --> 01:10:53,078
and as big and beautiful
as you could possibly get it.
1279
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:56,115
¶ As I walked down
the street... ¶
1280
01:10:56,117 --> 01:10:58,818
I understand why
anyone wou want to --
1281
01:10:58,820 --> 01:11:01,353
who is becoming famous
would stop it.
1282
01:11:01,355 --> 01:11:04,156
You're born with the right
of anonymity.
1283
01:11:04,158 --> 01:11:05,424
You're just anonymous.
1284
01:11:05,426 --> 01:11:07,193
You walk the streets,
you do whatever
1285
01:11:07,195 --> 01:11:09,161
and you can actually have
private thoughts
1286
01:11:09,163 --> 01:11:10,830
while you're amongst
other people.
1287
01:11:10,832 --> 01:11:13,299
People who never had
that change in their life
1288
01:11:13,301 --> 01:11:16,135
don't think about it, don't even
question it, it just is.
1289
01:11:16,137 --> 01:11:19,605
WOMAN: He wouldn't go
on a book tour
1290
01:11:19,607 --> 01:11:23,409
or sign books
or go on television shows.
1291
01:11:23,411 --> 01:11:25,444
He didn't ever want
to be interviewed.
1292
01:11:25,446 --> 01:11:28,013
He always, always felt
1293
01:11:28,015 --> 01:11:32,918
that what people should know
about an author
1294
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:34,220
was nothing personal.
1295
01:11:34,222 --> 01:11:36,222
They should know the author
through his work,
1296
01:11:36,224 --> 01:11:38,123
and that's all that he was
willing
1297
01:11:38,125 --> 01:11:39,625
to give people,
his work.
1298
01:11:39,627 --> 01:11:42,394
So, I was rather surprised
to go to a cocktail party,
1299
01:11:42,396 --> 01:11:43,963
as we did in the time --
1300
01:11:43,965 --> 01:11:45,664
someplace on the East Side,
1301
01:11:45,666 --> 01:11:48,734
where the prominent young
publishers were there.
1302
01:11:48,736 --> 01:11:51,437
Some publicity people
and some editors.
1303
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:53,606
I remember Joe Fox
of Random House was there.
1304
01:11:53,608 --> 01:11:55,641
He and his wife Jill,
1305
01:11:55,643 --> 01:11:58,978
who were the ones that said,
"Salinger's here!"
1306
01:11:58,980 --> 01:12:00,479
And this was
terribly exciting.
1307
01:12:00,481 --> 01:12:02,348
And I thought,
is it that guy over there?
1308
01:12:02,350 --> 01:12:04,650
And then they said,
"He's coming to dinner,"
1309
01:12:04,652 --> 01:12:06,685
and I remember we went
to this restaurant
1310
01:12:06,687 --> 01:12:09,555
and they'd shoved tables
together, and sure enough,
1311
01:12:09,557 --> 01:12:10,823
he was there.
1312
01:12:10,825 --> 01:12:13,092
And I remember that he
sat down at the table.
1313
01:12:13,094 --> 01:12:16,061
We were all excited about being
in his presence.
1314
01:12:16,063 --> 01:12:18,397
He was really there,
the real Salinger.
1315
01:12:18,399 --> 01:12:20,799
And presently he got up
and muttered something
1316
01:12:20,801 --> 01:12:23,135
to someone that he had to make
a phone call,
1317
01:12:23,137 --> 01:12:24,970
disappeared
and never came back.
1318
01:12:24,972 --> 01:12:27,239
When there was this sudden
onslaught,
1319
01:12:27,241 --> 01:12:29,975
he suddenly realized,
"I don't really need this
1320
01:12:29,977 --> 01:12:33,012
and I don't want this,"
and I think that's the moment
1321
01:12:33,014 --> 01:12:36,882
he just turned on his heels
and disappeared
1322
01:12:36,884 --> 01:12:39,018
into the mountains
of New Hampshire.
1323
01:12:46,526 --> 01:12:49,995
MAN: When you read
"Catcher in the Rye,"
1324
01:12:49,997 --> 01:12:52,364
you just know,
someday, some way,
1325
01:12:52,366 --> 01:12:54,934
Salinger is going to end up
in a spot
1326
01:12:54,936 --> 01:12:57,236
that he considers
his seclusion.
1327
01:12:57,238 --> 01:13:00,506
WOMAN: It didn't mean that he
was a hermit, you know.
1328
01:13:00,508 --> 01:13:02,274
He just didn't want
to be with writers,
1329
01:13:02,276 --> 01:13:04,677
and he certainly didn't want to
be the toast of New York.
1330
01:13:04,679 --> 01:13:07,813
He was protecting himself.
1331
01:13:07,815 --> 01:13:10,749
His motives
were really very pure.
1332
01:13:10,751 --> 01:13:15,154
He wanted the peace
and quiet to do his work
1333
01:13:15,156 --> 01:13:18,290
and Cornish
is where he found it.
1334
01:13:27,801 --> 01:13:30,669
WOMAN: I was part of
the high school gang
1335
01:13:30,671 --> 01:13:33,872
that he used to take
in his jeep to ball games.
1336
01:13:33,874 --> 01:13:36,342
He was just
one of the guys.
1337
01:13:36,344 --> 01:13:39,244
With Jerry around, you could
just do what you wanted
1338
01:13:39,246 --> 01:13:42,114
and not think that you were
going to be reprimanded
1339
01:13:42,116 --> 01:13:46,652
or, you know, put down because
of what you were doing.
1340
01:13:46,654 --> 01:13:48,287
It was all laughter.
1341
01:13:48,289 --> 01:13:51,123
The whole time
was all laughter.
1342
01:13:51,125 --> 01:13:52,658
It was neat.
1343
01:13:52,660 --> 01:13:57,396
He's like the world's greatest
high school guidance counselor.
1344
01:13:57,398 --> 01:13:59,798
You know, that's him,
that's Salinger.
1345
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:04,370
WOMAN: There was a soda fountain
right in town
1346
01:14:04,372 --> 01:14:05,838
that most of us gathered,
1347
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,575
and Jerry Salinger used to come
right in and be part of it.
1348
01:14:09,577 --> 01:14:12,378
There was four or five
of us girls there,
1349
01:14:12,380 --> 01:14:15,147
and we were all just
wide-eyed over him.
1350
01:14:15,149 --> 01:14:17,916
He may have been older
than we were,
1351
01:14:17,918 --> 01:14:21,654
but he wasn't acting it,
he was acting like just a pal.
1352
01:14:21,656 --> 01:14:24,156
And this is
Kennedy's Pond,
1353
01:14:24,158 --> 01:14:26,792
where Jerry used to take us up
and drop us off
1354
01:14:26,794 --> 01:14:28,661
when we wanted
to go swimming.
1355
01:14:28,663 --> 01:14:31,997
The people did know
that he was a writer.
1356
01:14:31,999 --> 01:14:35,134
You know, nobody really gave it
much thought,
1357
01:14:35,136 --> 01:14:36,902
least of all us kids didn't.
1358
01:14:36,904 --> 01:14:38,203
Everyone keeps saying,
1359
01:14:38,205 --> 01:14:40,539
"Why did he hang around
with the kids?"
1360
01:14:40,541 --> 01:14:43,442
Well, because we didn't care
about what he did.
1361
01:14:43,444 --> 01:14:45,411
We were friends.
1362
01:14:45,413 --> 01:14:47,680
Until Shirlie Blaney blew that.
1363
01:14:49,015 --> 01:14:53,519
One of the girls that was part
of our group, Shirlie Blaney,
1364
01:14:53,521 --> 01:14:57,022
at one point she and Jerry
were pretty close.
1365
01:14:57,024 --> 01:15:01,093
She did a lot of newspaper work
during high school
1366
01:15:01,095 --> 01:15:04,129
and so they did have
this connection.
1367
01:15:04,131 --> 01:15:05,898
We all teased her about,
1368
01:15:05,900 --> 01:15:09,068
I mean, here was Jerry Salinger
the writer,
1369
01:15:09,070 --> 01:15:11,570
and who do you think you're
going to be seeing, you know?
1370
01:15:11,572 --> 01:15:13,539
And she said,
"You'd be surprised
1371
01:15:13,541 --> 01:15:15,340
what I'm
gonna do with this."
1372
01:15:15,342 --> 01:15:19,111
WOMAN: Salinger is having lunch
in a cafe and Shirlie Blaney
1373
01:15:19,113 --> 01:15:21,246
approached him as his friend
and asked
1374
01:15:21,248 --> 01:15:24,083
if she could interview him
for her high school paper.
1375
01:15:24,085 --> 01:15:27,886
WOMAN: He said, "Okay,"
but with the promise
1376
01:15:27,888 --> 01:15:32,691
that it would go totally
to the school paper, no further.
1377
01:15:32,693 --> 01:15:34,927
MAN: When asked if
"Catcher in the Rye"
1378
01:15:34,929 --> 01:15:36,829
was in any way
autobiographical,
1379
01:15:36,831 --> 01:15:39,732
Mr. Salinger said, "My boyhood
was very much the same
1380
01:15:39,734 --> 01:15:41,366
as that of the boy in the book
1381
01:15:41,368 --> 01:15:44,169
and it was a great relief
telling people about it."
1382
01:15:44,171 --> 01:15:45,304
It really went well
1383
01:15:45,306 --> 01:15:47,806
if it could have just stayed
that friendship,
1384
01:15:47,808 --> 01:15:51,210
but when Shirlie started
getting serious,
1385
01:15:51,212 --> 01:15:52,878
uh...
1386
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,048
and not just a friend but wanted
to be more than that,
1387
01:15:56,050 --> 01:15:59,451
I think that's when Jerry
put a stop to it all.
1388
01:15:59,453 --> 01:16:03,021
He gave her an interview
in good faith,
1389
01:16:03,023 --> 01:16:05,991
and she hurt him,
she used him.
1390
01:16:05,993 --> 01:16:09,595
She found a way to make
some fast bucks, I think.
1391
01:16:09,597 --> 01:16:11,430
WOMAN: The
Claremont Daily Eagle
1392
01:16:11,432 --> 01:16:13,265
published it
on their front page.
1393
01:16:13,267 --> 01:16:15,334
MAN: And then it snowballs
from there.
1394
01:16:15,336 --> 01:16:16,969
It becomes
a national story.
1395
01:16:16,971 --> 01:16:19,438
Then he didn't trust
any of us.
1396
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:21,540
Then he just w not
our friend anymore.
1397
01:16:21,542 --> 01:16:23,575
He felt betrayed.
1398
01:16:23,577 --> 01:16:26,345
I remember the word
"betrayal, betrayal!"
1399
01:16:26,347 --> 01:16:29,348
MAN: He literally built
a wall around his house
1400
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:32,084
and that was that.
1401
01:16:34,854 --> 01:16:38,724
I think the world was...
1402
01:16:38,726 --> 01:16:42,227
the world --
the buzz status group --
1403
01:16:42,229 --> 01:16:44,596
was waiting for...
1404
01:16:44,598 --> 01:16:46,999
a big novel.
1405
01:16:47,001 --> 01:16:48,667
Uh...
1406
01:16:48,669 --> 01:16:52,504
and I'm not sure that's
the way Salinger
1407
01:16:52,506 --> 01:16:54,339
really ever wanted
to write.
1408
01:16:54,341 --> 01:16:57,643
MAN: Everybody wanted him to
write a sequel to "Catcher."
1409
01:16:57,645 --> 01:17:00,579
MAN: He was the guy that wrote
"The Catcher in the Rye."
1410
01:17:00,581 --> 01:17:04,683
And he was the only one that
really knew what that took,
1411
01:17:04,685 --> 01:17:07,953
how much that cost him,
personally, and its true value,
1412
01:17:07,955 --> 01:17:11,957
never mind what the society
thought, or the literary world.
1413
01:17:11,959 --> 01:17:17,696
To him it was finished,
and he had to move on.
1414
01:17:17,698 --> 01:17:21,767
MAN: "Nine Stories"
begins and ends
1415
01:17:21,769 --> 01:17:24,970
with a sudden suicide
following a conversation
1416
01:17:24,972 --> 01:17:27,673
in which something couldn't
get said.
1417
01:17:27,675 --> 01:17:31,910
They are characters who want
to get out of the world.
1418
01:17:31,912 --> 01:17:36,148
And the stories end when they're
given permission to leave.
1419
01:17:36,150 --> 01:17:39,051
It's amazing.
It's a strange effect.
1420
01:17:39,053 --> 01:17:41,153
It's home movies of a family.
1421
01:17:41,155 --> 01:17:43,555
It's those old --
t-t-t-t-t...
1422
01:17:43,557 --> 01:17:45,557
we used to have --
they're 8-millimeter,
1423
01:17:45,559 --> 01:17:47,726
those movies our fathers
used to take of us.
1424
01:17:47,728 --> 01:17:49,228
T-t-t-t-t-t-t.
1425
01:17:49,230 --> 01:17:51,163
And you're in the swimming pool.
1426
01:17:51,165 --> 01:17:53,899
Then you're at a picnic
and then you're on a swing.
1427
01:17:53,901 --> 01:17:58,270
This is, to me, like
the 8-millimeter movies
1428
01:17:58,272 --> 01:18:00,005
of these
Glass children.
1429
01:18:00,007 --> 01:18:02,140
If they're not about
the Glass children,
1430
01:18:02,142 --> 01:18:04,109
they're about the people
who live next door.
1431
01:18:04,111 --> 01:18:07,212
In this neighborhood,
in New York,
1432
01:18:07,214 --> 01:18:09,381
after the war.
1433
01:18:09,383 --> 01:18:11,750
And, in an amazing way,
1434
01:18:11,752 --> 01:18:15,420
how that war so supremely
affected everybody,
1435
01:18:15,422 --> 01:18:18,090
and the loss of family members.
1436
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:22,761
In 1954, I was in college,
1437
01:18:22,763 --> 01:18:27,366
and Jerry would take me for
an evening in New York.
1438
01:18:27,368 --> 01:18:29,001
He would take me
to the Palm Room,
1439
01:18:29,003 --> 01:18:32,070
or we'd go to the theater,
we'd go to the Blue Angel.
1440
01:18:32,072 --> 01:18:33,438
I remember once
1441
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:37,342
driving back on that
East Side highway
1442
01:18:37,344 --> 01:18:40,979
and seeing
the George Washington Bridge,
1443
01:18:40,981 --> 01:18:43,715
and thinking how absolutely
beautiful it was
1444
01:18:43,717 --> 01:18:45,817
and saying
how beautiful it was.
1445
01:18:45,819 --> 01:18:49,421
And he laughed,
and he said, "Jean,
1446
01:18:49,423 --> 01:18:53,792
you've got to learn
not to say the obvious."
1447
01:18:53,794 --> 01:18:56,028
I thought, well,
you know, he's right.
1448
01:18:56,030 --> 01:19:01,099
I was still young, but here
was this fascinating man
1449
01:19:01,101 --> 01:19:03,168
who seemed to like me.
1450
01:19:03,170 --> 01:19:05,404
But in all those letters,
1451
01:19:05,406 --> 01:19:08,807
it says,
"My work has to come first."
1452
01:19:08,809 --> 01:19:12,144
And he's sorry to be
such an "unromantic man,"
1453
01:19:12,146 --> 01:19:13,345
and I'd have every right
1454
01:19:13,347 --> 01:19:15,147
to tell him
to go jump in the lake
1455
01:19:15,149 --> 01:19:19,518
and go off with some
less neurotic person.
1456
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:21,753
But once in a while,
1457
01:19:21,755 --> 01:19:23,588
he would come and fetch me.
1458
01:19:23,590 --> 01:19:27,659
And we'd drive up to Cornish.
1459
01:19:31,631 --> 01:19:36,201
We would take a walk
in the afternoon and talk.
1460
01:19:36,203 --> 01:19:38,170
And then dinner.
1461
01:19:38,172 --> 01:19:41,540
And then we'd look at television
by the fire.
1462
01:19:41,542 --> 01:19:43,976
Lawrence Welk or Liberace
or something like that.
1463
01:19:43,978 --> 01:19:45,143
And we'd dance.
1464
01:19:45,145 --> 01:19:47,512
I remember one night I said,
"Let's dance!"
1465
01:19:47,514 --> 01:19:49,147
It was fun.
1466
01:19:49,149 --> 01:19:51,883
We would look at the people
on the television dancing
1467
01:19:51,885 --> 01:19:54,186
and we just would waltz or...
1468
01:19:54,188 --> 01:19:56,021
laughing all the time.
1469
01:19:56,023 --> 01:19:58,957
He seemed filled with joy,
to me,
1470
01:19:58,959 --> 01:20:01,259
a great deal of the time.
1471
01:20:01,261 --> 01:20:04,629
But there was never
1472
01:20:04,631 --> 01:20:09,134
a inkling of anything physical
between us.
1473
01:20:09,136 --> 01:20:14,673
Jerry Salinger remembered me
always on that pier
1474
01:20:14,675 --> 01:20:16,341
in Daytona Beach.
1475
01:20:16,343 --> 01:20:19,745
I am the one who changed it.
1476
01:20:19,747 --> 01:20:21,980
We were in the back seat
of a taxi
1477
01:20:21,982 --> 01:20:24,016
and I turned
and kissed him.
1478
01:20:26,019 --> 01:20:28,186
Not soon after the taxi,
1479
01:20:28,188 --> 01:20:32,791
we went to Montreal
for the weekend.
1480
01:20:32,793 --> 01:20:36,228
We went up to his --
our room --
1481
01:20:36,230 --> 01:20:38,530
and we went to bed.
1482
01:20:38,532 --> 01:20:42,034
And I told him
I was a virgin.
1483
01:20:42,036 --> 01:20:44,803
And he didn't like that.
1484
01:20:44,805 --> 01:20:47,472
He didn't want
the responsibility of that.
1485
01:20:47,474 --> 01:20:50,475
I guess --
he just didn't like it.
1486
01:20:50,477 --> 01:20:55,981
And then the next day,
we're flying to Boston,
1487
01:20:55,983 --> 01:20:59,918
and me on to New York
and he on to West Lebanon.
1488
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:01,787
And somehow
in the airplane,
1489
01:21:01,789 --> 01:21:05,957
he was told
that his plane was cancelled.
1490
01:21:05,959 --> 01:21:07,993
And I began laughing,
1491
01:21:07,995 --> 01:21:09,528
because I was delighted
1492
01:21:09,530 --> 01:21:12,497
that we could spend
the afternoon together --
1493
01:21:12,499 --> 01:21:17,169
particularly after what had just
happened the night before --
1494
01:21:17,171 --> 01:21:23,075
and I saw this veil come down
on his face, just like this.
1495
01:21:23,077 --> 01:21:27,813
This look of horror
and hurt.
1496
01:21:27,815 --> 01:21:30,348
It was a terrible look.
1497
01:21:30,350 --> 01:21:34,619
It was a look that conveyed
everything.
1498
01:21:34,621 --> 01:21:37,322
I think all of the sudden
he saw me
1499
01:21:37,324 --> 01:21:39,524
in an entirely different light.
1500
01:21:39,526 --> 01:21:41,660
He hustled me right onto
a plane.
1501
01:21:41,662 --> 01:21:44,329
I didn't have a plane till
later in the day.
1502
01:21:44,331 --> 01:21:46,965
He went right to the desk,
got the ticket changed,
1503
01:21:46,967 --> 01:21:49,334
hustled me right
on the plane.
1504
01:21:49,336 --> 01:21:55,006
I knew I had come between him
and his work.
1505
01:21:55,008 --> 01:21:57,142
And it was over.
1506
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:13,658
Wow. How do you describe
Claire Douglas?
1507
01:22:13,660 --> 01:22:18,864
In many ways, Claire Douglas
will be the Widow Salinger.
1508
01:22:18,866 --> 01:22:21,032
You know, there were women
after Claire,
1509
01:22:21,034 --> 01:22:23,502
but she's the wife.
1510
01:22:23,504 --> 01:22:27,239
Salinger attended
a party one night
1511
01:22:27,241 --> 01:22:31,209
where he met this captivating,
attractive,
1512
01:22:31,211 --> 01:22:35,313
personable young woman
who was 19 years old.
1513
01:22:35,315 --> 01:22:40,485
And Salinger, who was 34, was
instantly attracted to her.
1514
01:22:40,487 --> 01:22:42,888
She's just the kind of a lady,
you think,
1515
01:22:42,890 --> 01:22:45,423
with a long dress
and a neat hairdo and...
1516
01:22:45,425 --> 01:22:48,059
and with a glass of wine
in her hands,
1517
01:22:48,061 --> 01:22:52,364
talking with lots
of New York people.
1518
01:22:52,366 --> 01:22:55,133
Yeah. Her role...
1519
01:22:55,135 --> 01:22:56,968
just didn't seem right.
1520
01:22:56,970 --> 01:23:00,505
Her childhood was not one
that set her up
1521
01:23:00,507 --> 01:23:02,908
with any kind of foundation.
1522
01:23:02,910 --> 01:23:06,144
She was sent off to convent
boarding school at age 5.
1523
01:23:06,146 --> 01:23:09,014
In and out of eight
different foster homes.
1524
01:23:09,016 --> 01:23:11,883
Off to another boarding school.
1525
01:23:11,885 --> 01:23:13,618
And...
1526
01:23:13,620 --> 01:23:16,488
the summer between her junior
and senior year,
1527
01:23:16,490 --> 01:23:17,989
met my father.
1528
01:23:17,991 --> 01:23:24,362
WOMAN: In 1955, I was in Daytona
at the Sheraton,
1529
01:23:24,364 --> 01:23:25,897
dancing.
1530
01:23:25,899 --> 01:23:27,699
And I looked out a window,
1531
01:23:27,701 --> 01:23:31,102
and here was Jerry Salinger
with this beautiful girl.
1532
01:23:31,104 --> 01:23:33,572
They looked
very comfortable together.
1533
01:23:33,574 --> 01:23:37,475
They were obviously out for
an after-dinner walk.
1534
01:23:37,477 --> 01:23:40,745
He saw me.
I know that.
1535
01:23:40,747 --> 01:23:42,280
Our eyes met.
1536
01:23:42,282 --> 01:23:44,049
He saw me.
1537
01:23:44,051 --> 01:23:47,118
And the next time I looked,
he was gone.
1538
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:49,421
They were gone.
1539
01:23:49,423 --> 01:23:53,124
MAN: Many critics contend
that Claire
1540
01:23:53,126 --> 01:23:56,361
was the inspiration
for Franny.
1541
01:23:56,363 --> 01:23:59,231
And on February 17, 1955,
1542
01:23:59,233 --> 01:24:03,101
J.D. Salinger married
Claire Douglas in Vermont.
1543
01:24:03,103 --> 01:24:06,404
Salinger gave a copy of
the story to Claire
1544
01:24:06,406 --> 01:24:08,206
as her wedding present.
1545
01:24:08,208 --> 01:24:12,277
MAN: "Franny" became
a national cultural event.
1546
01:24:12,279 --> 01:24:14,512
It had this kind
of cliffhanger ending,
1547
01:24:14,514 --> 01:24:16,915
where the main character,
Franny, fainted,
1548
01:24:16,917 --> 01:24:19,284
and people were wondering,
what happened?
1549
01:24:19,286 --> 01:24:21,519
Was she intoxicated,
pregnant, or what?
1550
01:24:21,521 --> 01:24:25,490
On December 10, 1955,
J.D. Salinger became a father.
1551
01:24:25,492 --> 01:24:28,326
And his daughter Margaret
was born.
1552
01:24:28,328 --> 01:24:32,631
The way he viewed Claire
changed after that.
1553
01:24:32,633 --> 01:24:37,836
Before that, she had been
the late-teen, early 20s woman
1554
01:24:37,838 --> 01:24:39,704
that he was fascinated with.
1555
01:24:39,706 --> 01:24:42,374
Now, she was a woman.
She was a mother.
1556
01:24:42,376 --> 01:24:44,542
And I think the birth
of that child
1557
01:24:44,544 --> 01:24:47,178
had a permanent effect
on their relationship.
1558
01:24:47,180 --> 01:24:49,347
When I started taking care
of his kids,
1559
01:24:49,349 --> 01:24:53,652
Claire was due
to have Matthew.
1560
01:24:53,654 --> 01:24:56,655
And Jerry knew me.
1561
01:24:56,657 --> 01:25:00,992
So he asked me to help Claire
with Margaret.
1562
01:25:00,994 --> 01:25:03,028
We called her Peggy.
1563
01:25:03,030 --> 01:25:06,598
I'd get there at 8:30.
1564
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,501
If there were dishes around,
I'd do them up.
1565
01:25:09,503 --> 01:25:12,270
Usually, Peggy was still with
mom in the other room.
1566
01:25:12,272 --> 01:25:13,772
And then she would come out.
1567
01:25:13,774 --> 01:25:18,276
And so we would either go
out and walk around
1568
01:25:18,278 --> 01:25:21,079
or we would get things out
for her to color.
1569
01:25:21,081 --> 01:25:24,182
We'd spend a lot of time
just chatting together.
1570
01:25:24,184 --> 01:25:25,417
She was a neat kid.
1571
01:25:32,558 --> 01:25:34,159
Jerry built a small building
1572
01:25:34,161 --> 01:25:36,995
down over the hill
from the house.
1573
01:25:36,997 --> 01:25:39,264
It was just
a little square house.
1574
01:25:39,266 --> 01:25:43,034
And that's where he would
go down, any time, day or night,
1575
01:25:43,036 --> 01:25:46,137
go in and shut the door,
1576
01:25:46,139 --> 01:25:48,907
and you wouldn't see him
for a week or longer,
1577
01:25:48,909 --> 01:25:51,976
'cause he got into
a writing mode
1578
01:25:51,978 --> 01:25:54,079
and had to be left
totally alone.
1579
01:25:54,081 --> 01:25:58,083
Claire was not allowed
to bother him.
1580
01:25:58,085 --> 01:26:00,685
MAN: Nobody could enter
the bunker.
1581
01:26:00,687 --> 01:26:04,222
It was the safe place,
and a sacred place for him.
1582
01:26:06,792 --> 01:26:10,562
Salinger installed cup hooks
upon which he would place
1583
01:26:10,564 --> 01:26:12,197
scenes he had written.
1584
01:26:12,199 --> 01:26:15,500
There were notes tacked up
all over the walls.
1585
01:26:15,502 --> 01:26:20,538
It was the place in which
Salinger became the characters.
1586
01:26:20,540 --> 01:26:24,442
It was the place that was his
and his Glass family's,
1587
01:26:24,444 --> 01:26:27,345
no one else's family.
1588
01:26:27,347 --> 01:26:31,049
WOMAN: The Glass family were
seven children, all geniuses,
1589
01:26:31,051 --> 01:26:33,385
who each appeared on a show
called "It's a Wise Child."
1590
01:26:33,387 --> 01:26:36,788
The sons and daughters of
two vaudevillians --
1591
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:40,091
Seymour, the oldest, was the
greatest genius of them all.
1592
01:26:40,093 --> 01:26:42,494
The most spiritual,
the most artistic.
1593
01:26:42,496 --> 01:26:44,863
And he commits suicide.
1594
01:26:44,865 --> 01:26:47,999
And that informs their entire
lives from then on.
1595
01:26:48,001 --> 01:26:51,336
"Franny" was quickly followed
by a wonderful long story
1596
01:26:51,338 --> 01:26:54,139
called "Raise High the
Roof Beam, Carpenters,"
1597
01:26:54,141 --> 01:26:56,508
about characters
of that same family.
1598
01:26:56,510 --> 01:26:59,711
[Typewriter typing]
1599
01:26:59,713 --> 01:27:02,247
MAN: The Glass family
and Salinger's real family
1600
01:27:02,249 --> 01:27:05,183
would actually compete with
each other for his attention,
1601
01:27:05,185 --> 01:27:08,420
and his affection.
1602
01:27:19,799 --> 01:27:22,834
MAN: How weird is it when
your father is gone
1603
01:27:22,836 --> 01:27:25,336
but you can actually see
where he is
1604
01:27:25,338 --> 01:27:27,238
but you can't go disturb him.
1605
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,192
What does that do to a child
psychologically,
1606
01:27:30,766 --> 01:27:33,362
when that's your childhood,
that's your youth.
1607
01:27:35,757 --> 01:27:39,192
WOMAN: By the time
Matthew was born,
1608
01:27:39,194 --> 01:27:42,028
you'd think Claire
was a single parent.
1609
01:27:42,030 --> 01:27:44,764
MAN: He put a cot in,
so that he literally
1610
01:27:44,766 --> 01:27:47,801
never had to leave
the bunker.
1611
01:27:47,803 --> 01:27:49,836
[Muted explosions]
1612
01:27:52,673 --> 01:27:57,744
MAN: You think about it....daily.
1613
01:27:57,746 --> 01:28:00,780
Uh, you have flashbacks.
1614
01:28:00,782 --> 01:28:05,018
There are times in which I can
be sitting in the living room
1615
01:28:05,020 --> 01:28:07,354
and, uh...
1616
01:28:07,356 --> 01:28:09,856
have artillery land
in my yard
1617
01:28:09,858 --> 01:28:12,492
or in my living room.
1618
01:28:12,494 --> 01:28:17,264
So you do get
those kinds of flashbacks.
1619
01:28:18,132 --> 01:28:21,601
I've told my wife that.
1620
01:28:28,758 --> 01:28:32,675
Sid Perelman, humorist,
Houston writer for the New Yorker,
1621
01:28:32,690 --> 01:28:36,092
did go up to see him
in New Hampshire.
1622
01:28:36,156 --> 01:28:40,692
Sid said, "He's got this
concrete bunker where he works
1623
01:28:40,694 --> 01:28:45,430
but he's got a great big statue
of Buddha in the garden
1624
01:28:45,432 --> 01:28:49,501
and he's got a lot of
Buddhist priests around him,
1625
01:28:49,503 --> 01:28:53,572
and they do
a lot of chanting."
1626
01:28:53,574 --> 01:28:57,375
And Sid thought this was
very strange.
1627
01:28:57,377 --> 01:28:59,878
MAN: Salinger's religion was
1628
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:03,181
the central concern
in his writing,
1629
01:29:03,183 --> 01:29:05,550
his championing the ideas
1630
01:29:05,552 --> 01:29:08,386
of Vedanta Hinduism
in his Glass stories.
1631
01:29:08,388 --> 01:29:10,722
The so-called
karma yoga concept
1632
01:29:10,724 --> 01:29:13,191
that comes from
the Bhagavad Gita,
1633
01:29:13,193 --> 01:29:17,062
that you should do your work as
perfectly as you possibly can,
1634
01:29:17,064 --> 01:29:19,664
with no thought of rewards.
1635
01:29:19,666 --> 01:29:23,001
And only that way can you be
a really happy person.
1636
01:29:23,003 --> 01:29:26,771
MAN: When Salinger submitted
the sequel to "Franny"
1637
01:29:26,773 --> 01:29:31,009
to the New Yorker, this novella
called "Zooey," in 1957,
1638
01:29:31,011 --> 01:29:35,547
the fiction editors unanimously
agreed to reject the story.
1639
01:29:35,549 --> 01:29:37,449
When I interviewed
William Maxwell,
1640
01:29:37,451 --> 01:29:40,051
who was one of the editors,
he said that the reason
1641
01:29:40,053 --> 01:29:42,487
was that the New Yorker
didn't publish sequels.
1642
01:29:42,489 --> 01:29:43,955
But, in fact, they had before,
1643
01:29:43,957 --> 01:29:45,724
and I think he was being
tactful.
1644
01:29:45,726 --> 01:29:48,259
I think the case is they just
didn't like the story.
1645
01:29:48,261 --> 01:29:52,097
William Shawn intervened.
1646
01:29:52,099 --> 01:29:54,699
He was the editor-in-chief
and he decreed
1647
01:29:54,701 --> 01:29:57,736
that the magazine would,
in fact, publish "Zooey,"
1648
01:29:57,738 --> 01:29:59,471
and since he was the one who
championed it,
1649
01:29:59,472 --> 01:30:02,080
he would edit it himself.
1650
01:30:02,105 --> 01:30:04,537
MAN: The New Yorker
was Mr. Shawn,
1651
01:30:04,563 --> 01:30:06,691
there was no other New Yorker.
1652
01:30:06,716 --> 01:30:08,850
He was it.
1653
01:30:08,878 --> 01:30:12,013
MAN: Salinger is
the perfect author for him.
1654
01:30:12,013 --> 01:30:17,089
Shawn is the perfect editor for
Salinger because they're both
1655
01:30:17,312 --> 01:30:20,413
strange, brilliant creatures.
1656
01:30:20,415 --> 01:30:24,283
William Shawn was a very shy
and introverted person.
1657
01:30:24,285 --> 01:30:27,119
He was a man who was riddled
with phobias.
1658
01:30:27,121 --> 01:30:28,688
Devoted to ideas.
1659
01:30:28,690 --> 01:30:31,023
He wouldn't sit in the front of
a theater
1660
01:30:31,025 --> 01:30:32,959
because he was afraid
of a fire.
1661
01:30:32,961 --> 01:30:35,027
Has had more books
dedicated to him
1662
01:30:35,029 --> 01:30:37,864
than anyone, probably,
in the history of publishing.
1663
01:30:37,866 --> 01:30:40,800
He carried a hatchet around,
reportedly, in his brief case.
1664
01:30:40,802 --> 01:30:43,336
He was always afraid he'd be
caught in an elevator
1665
01:30:43,338 --> 01:30:45,204
and he'd have to hack
his way out.
1666
01:30:45,206 --> 01:30:48,875
His whole life was really
wrapped up in the New Yorker
1667
01:30:48,877 --> 01:30:50,443
and his writers.
1668
01:30:50,445 --> 01:30:54,146
He wouldn't travel if he had to
go through a tunnel.
1669
01:30:54,148 --> 01:30:56,515
Salinger truly was grateful
to him
1670
01:30:56,517 --> 01:30:59,852
for the work he had done
and felt that he had found
1671
01:30:59,854 --> 01:31:01,921
a kind of soulmate in Shawn.
1672
01:31:01,923 --> 01:31:04,357
"Zooey" was so successful
that after that,
1673
01:31:04,359 --> 01:31:06,726
all his work was handled
by William Shawn.
1674
01:31:06,728 --> 01:31:09,528
He didn't work with the other
fiction editors
1675
01:31:09,530 --> 01:31:11,230
in the New Yorker anymore.
1676
01:31:11,232 --> 01:31:13,699
["Mony Mony" plays]
1677
01:31:13,701 --> 01:31:16,869
MAN: In the 1960s,
"The Catcher in the Rye"
1678
01:31:16,871 --> 01:31:20,106
takes off, becoming
a cultural phenomenon.
1679
01:31:20,108 --> 01:31:22,308
MAN: It literally is
a rite of passage.
1680
01:31:22,310 --> 01:31:23,876
It suggested that you had lost
1681
01:31:23,878 --> 01:31:26,078
your literary virginity
in a way.
1682
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,681
Everybody loved him --
kids, adults.
1683
01:31:28,683 --> 01:31:30,616
He was an idol,
a teen idol.
1684
01:31:30,618 --> 01:31:32,218
Salinger was
the national story.
1685
01:31:32,220 --> 01:31:34,854
MAN: In 1961, the big media
1686
01:31:34,856 --> 01:31:36,522
really pull out the big guns.
1687
01:31:36,524 --> 01:31:37,857
Time, Newsweek, and Life
1688
01:31:37,859 --> 01:31:39,926
sent out some of their best
reporters.
1689
01:31:39,928 --> 01:31:42,628
Newspaper people came
and did interviews.
1690
01:31:42,630 --> 01:31:44,597
They all started
coming in at Jerry.
1691
01:31:44,599 --> 01:31:46,599
He couldn't stop
for a cup of coffee.
1692
01:31:46,601 --> 01:31:48,100
They wouldn't allow it.
1693
01:31:48,102 --> 01:31:51,904
MAN: Time magazine tracked down
Salinger's sister Doris
1694
01:31:51,906 --> 01:31:54,040
at her job at Bloomingdales,
and in no uncertain terms
1695
01:31:54,042 --> 01:31:56,075
she basically told them,
"I would never do anything
1696
01:31:56,077 --> 01:31:57,476
my brother wouldn't
approve of."
1697
01:31:57,478 --> 01:31:59,645
There was so much attention,
1698
01:31:59,647 --> 01:32:03,883
so much heatso much light
being focused on J.D. Salinger.
1699
01:32:03,885 --> 01:32:05,851
Billy Wilder wanted to make
a movie
1700
01:32:05,853 --> 01:32:07,887
of "The Catcher in the Rye"
so badly
1701
01:32:07,889 --> 01:32:10,356
that he had his agents
hound Salinger.
1702
01:32:10,358 --> 01:32:13,125
I remember the whole talk
in New York at that time was
1703
01:32:13,127 --> 01:32:15,661
that Elia Kazan was desperate
to make a film
1704
01:32:15,663 --> 01:32:17,229
of "The Catcher in the Rye."
1705
01:32:17,231 --> 01:32:19,165
Jerry Lewis, who was like
a huge movie star,
1706
01:32:19,167 --> 01:32:21,334
publicly declared that he was
going to make a film
1707
01:32:21,336 --> 01:32:22,768
of "Catcher in the Rye."
1708
01:32:22,770 --> 01:32:25,905
And on a fairly regular basis,
he would call J.D. Salinger,
1709
01:32:25,907 --> 01:32:27,139
who would hang up on him.
1710
01:32:27,141 --> 01:32:29,375
MAN: Salinger showed up
unexpectedly
1711
01:32:29,377 --> 01:32:32,078
at Billy Wilder's agent's office
in New York
1712
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:33,579
and he starts screaming,
1713
01:32:33,581 --> 01:32:36,449
"Tell Billy Wilder
to leave me alone!
1714
01:32:36,451 --> 01:32:38,551
He's very, very insensitive!"
1715
01:32:38,553 --> 01:32:41,721
MAN: Elia Kazan, going on his
search for "Catcher in the Rye,"
1716
01:32:41,723 --> 01:32:43,556
knocking on the door
and saying,
1717
01:32:43,558 --> 01:32:46,025
"Mr. Salinger,
I'm Elia Kazan."
1718
01:32:46,027 --> 01:32:47,927
And Salinger saying,
"That's nice,"
1719
01:32:47,929 --> 01:32:49,362
and closing the door.
1720
01:32:49,364 --> 01:32:51,397
I hope it's true.
1721
01:32:51,399 --> 01:32:54,367
MAN: If they made a movie,
Holden wouldn't like it.
1722
01:32:54,369 --> 01:32:56,769
Enough said.
[Chuckles]
1723
01:32:56,771 --> 01:32:59,572
MAN: "Franny and Zooey"
instantly took off.
1724
01:32:59,574 --> 01:33:01,707
It was on the best-seller list
in no time.
1725
01:33:01,709 --> 01:33:03,576
It remained
on the best-seller list
1726
01:33:03,578 --> 01:33:05,578
for weeks and weeks
and weeks.
1727
01:33:05,580 --> 01:33:10,016
MAN: When J.D. Salinger appears
on the cover of Time magazine,
1728
01:33:10,018 --> 01:33:13,986
it's not a photograph,
it's an imaginary portrait.
1729
01:33:13,988 --> 01:33:18,024
It conveys the sense that
the author has enough integrity
1730
01:33:18,026 --> 01:33:21,160
not to be part
of the publicity machine.
1731
01:33:23,463 --> 01:33:26,599
MAN: I was assigned
by Life magazine
1732
01:33:26,601 --> 01:33:29,602
to go up and get a picture
of this man
1733
01:33:29,604 --> 01:33:31,337
who was very reclusive
1734
01:33:31,339 --> 01:33:33,939
and had refused to be
photographed, I guess,
1735
01:33:33,941 --> 01:33:36,275
for many years.
1736
01:33:36,277 --> 01:33:40,679
The challenge was to be
unobtrusive,
1737
01:33:40,681 --> 01:33:42,048
to not be noticed,
1738
01:33:42,050 --> 01:33:44,817
and to take advantage
of the terrain,
1739
01:33:44,819 --> 01:33:46,385
hiding in the bushes,
1740
01:33:46,387 --> 01:33:48,487
much in the way that one would
1741
01:33:48,489 --> 01:33:51,123
if you were
photographing wildlife.
1742
01:33:51,125 --> 01:33:52,892
You don't walk up there
1743
01:33:52,894 --> 01:33:56,128
with six cameras
hanging around your neck.
1744
01:33:56,130 --> 01:33:59,999
So I put my cameras
in a shopping bag.
1745
01:34:00,001 --> 01:34:02,968
I would find my little
hiding place in the bushes
1746
01:34:02,970 --> 01:34:05,137
and stay there
all day shivering,
1747
01:34:05,139 --> 01:34:08,574
and very cold and rainy.
1748
01:34:08,576 --> 01:34:10,976
I had a horrible cold,
1749
01:34:10,978 --> 01:34:13,045
bordering on the flu.
1750
01:34:13,047 --> 01:34:14,947
The editors said,
1751
01:34:14,949 --> 01:34:17,083
"If it's more than three days,
forget about it."
1752
01:34:17,085 --> 01:34:19,819
Then, lo and behold,
on the third day
1753
01:34:19,821 --> 01:34:23,456
he made an appearance
to walk his dog, very briefly.
1754
01:34:23,458 --> 01:34:25,658
He just emerged,
just for a few seconds,
1755
01:34:25,660 --> 01:34:29,528
just enough time for me to
get off a half dozen frames.
1756
01:34:29,530 --> 01:34:31,097
In fact, I was afraid
1757
01:34:31,099 --> 01:34:34,233
that I was close enough that
he might be able to hear
1758
01:34:34,235 --> 01:34:35,901
the clicking of the shutter.
1759
01:34:48,048 --> 01:34:50,449
MAN: I remember reading
about him in Life magazine.
1760
01:34:50,451 --> 01:34:53,119
I remember reading about
this man who lived in this house
1761
01:34:53,121 --> 01:34:54,887
who didn't want visitors.
1762
01:34:54,889 --> 01:34:56,889
Didn't want to discuss himself.
1763
01:34:56,891 --> 01:34:58,991
I remember sort of being
puzzled by that
1764
01:34:58,993 --> 01:35:01,127
because, again, you're
at that age where,
1765
01:35:01,129 --> 01:35:03,629
you're suddenly realizing there
are famous people
1766
01:35:03,631 --> 01:35:05,397
and then there's
the rest of us.
1767
01:35:05,399 --> 01:35:07,766
There are people who have
extraordinary lives
1768
01:35:07,768 --> 01:35:09,235
and then there's
the rest of us.
1769
01:35:09,237 --> 01:35:11,437
And here was a man who had
an opportunity to have
1770
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:12,538
what at that young age
1771
01:35:12,540 --> 01:35:14,707
you thought was
an extraordinary life,
1772
01:35:14,709 --> 01:35:17,543
and he was saying, "I'd
rather not; please go away."
1773
01:35:19,679 --> 01:35:20,880
When "Franny and Zooey,"
1774
01:35:20,882 --> 01:35:22,815
"Raise High the Roof Beam,
Carpenters"
1775
01:35:22,817 --> 01:35:25,451
and "Seymour: an introduction"
were published as books,
1776
01:35:25,453 --> 01:35:27,419
the literary knives came out.
1777
01:35:27,421 --> 01:35:29,722
Joan Didion wrote that he had
a fondness
1778
01:35:29,724 --> 01:35:32,658
for giving instructions to
people on how to live life.
1779
01:35:32,660 --> 01:35:34,059
John Updike wrote,
1780
01:35:34,061 --> 01:35:37,263
"Salinger loved his characters
more than God loved them."
1781
01:35:37,265 --> 01:35:40,366
Lionel Trilling, Alfred Kazin,
Mary McCarthy --
1782
01:35:40,368 --> 01:35:43,102
She wrote an essay
in Harper's magazine
1783
01:35:43,104 --> 01:35:45,905
called "J.D. Salinger's
Closed Circuit."
1784
01:35:45,907 --> 01:35:49,441
She saw the entire work he had
done as being narcissistic.
1785
01:35:49,443 --> 01:35:52,311
It is one person
reflecting on his own image.
1786
01:35:52,313 --> 01:35:55,881
You can't get so engrossed
in your own image
1787
01:35:55,883 --> 01:35:57,983
without it being
a dangerous thing.
1788
01:35:57,985 --> 01:36:00,786
Not since the creation
of the universe
1789
01:36:00,788 --> 01:36:03,856
has there been such powerful
forces at work
1790
01:36:03,858 --> 01:36:07,326
as this ghastly,
self-observant family,
1791
01:36:07,328 --> 01:36:09,361
going on and on and on,
1792
01:36:09,363 --> 01:36:11,730
about everything of importance
to them,
1793
01:36:11,732 --> 01:36:14,567
which they assume is important
to all the world.
1794
01:36:14,569 --> 01:36:17,069
The fiction went
over the edge
1795
01:36:17,071 --> 01:36:20,406
with "Hapworth" in 1965.
1796
01:36:20,408 --> 01:36:24,310
It's long on tone and absolutely
devoid of plot.
1797
01:36:24,312 --> 01:36:27,613
It was just
the brilliant Seymour
1798
01:36:27,615 --> 01:36:31,784
writing as a brilliant
7-year-old from camp,
1799
01:36:31,786 --> 01:36:33,419
and it was just too much.
1800
01:36:33,421 --> 01:36:35,821
It was impossible to believe.
1801
01:36:35,823 --> 01:36:38,824
That was just a little bit
too much, uh,
1802
01:36:38,826 --> 01:36:40,626
theology for most people.
1803
01:36:40,628 --> 01:36:45,998
MAN: Ultimately, Claire couldn't
stand it anymore.
1804
01:36:48,068 --> 01:36:52,037
The isolation, the emotional
distress that she felt
1805
01:36:52,039 --> 01:36:55,574
because her husband was
obsessively writing
1806
01:36:55,576 --> 01:36:56,909
in the bunker.
1807
01:36:56,911 --> 01:36:59,144
And Claire filed
for divorce.
1808
01:37:02,082 --> 01:37:04,016
Claire was a lady
1809
01:37:04,018 --> 01:37:08,187
and she deserved
to be treated like one.
1810
01:37:08,189 --> 01:37:11,023
But Jerry didn't
treat her like one.
1811
01:37:14,628 --> 01:37:18,297
So I was glad to hear
that she was free.
1812
01:37:35,582 --> 01:37:36,815
I want to tell you something
1813
01:37:36,817 --> 01:37:38,851
you really ought to ask
Charlie Portis about,
1814
01:37:38,853 --> 01:37:41,120
'cause he told me -- and I may
have it all wrong --
1815
01:37:41,122 --> 01:37:44,723
I remember Charlie telling me
he was sent up to New Hampshire,
1816
01:37:44,725 --> 01:37:47,893
some political story, and he's
heading back to New York
1817
01:37:47,895 --> 01:37:52,097
on a little commuter flight,
and this was a propeller plane.
1818
01:37:52,099 --> 01:37:54,366
And two men sitting right
in front of him,
1819
01:37:54,368 --> 01:37:56,969
one on one side of the aisle,
on the outside seat,
1820
01:37:56,971 --> 01:37:59,972
one on the outside seat
on the other side of the aisle,
1821
01:37:59,974 --> 01:38:01,473
realize they know each other.
1822
01:38:01,475 --> 01:38:03,842
And they have to shout almost
1823
01:38:03,844 --> 01:38:06,812
because the noise
of the airplane.
1824
01:38:06,814 --> 01:38:09,281
The one on one side says,
"Well, I'll be damned,
1825
01:38:09,283 --> 01:38:11,150
Jerry, I haven't seen you
in so long!
1826
01:38:11,152 --> 01:38:12,851
What the hell
have you been up to?"
1827
01:38:12,853 --> 01:38:18,123
And it dawns on Charlie Portis
that this is J.D. Salinger.
1828
01:38:18,125 --> 01:38:22,761
And he's filling in almost
the last 10 years of his life
1829
01:38:22,763 --> 01:38:24,330
for his friend.
1830
01:38:24,332 --> 01:38:27,866
And so Charlie, like
any good newspaperman,
1831
01:38:27,868 --> 01:38:31,070
he's taking this down
a mile a minute.
1832
01:38:31,072 --> 01:38:36,742
So when they land, he goes up
to Salinger and he says,
1833
01:38:36,744 --> 01:38:38,177
"Mr. Salinger."
1834
01:38:38,179 --> 01:38:39,611
This guy turns around
and he says,
1835
01:38:39,613 --> 01:38:41,747
"Hi, my name
is Charles Portis.
1836
01:38:41,749 --> 01:38:44,216
I'm from
the New York Herald Tribune.
1837
01:38:44,218 --> 01:38:46,885
I just happened to be sitting
behind you."
1838
01:38:46,887 --> 01:38:49,288
He said he got no further
than that,
1839
01:38:49,290 --> 01:38:53,992
when Salinger -- turned white --
said,
1840
01:38:53,994 --> 01:38:57,396
"You wouldn't!
You wouldn't!"
1841
01:38:57,398 --> 01:38:59,698
And Charlie said to me,
"You know, I wouldn't.
1842
01:38:59,700 --> 01:39:05,437
That guy looked so awful
when he realized what I had."
1843
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:09,308
He said, "I just dropped it."
1844
01:39:09,310 --> 01:39:11,577
Are you talking
to Joyce Maynard?
1845
01:39:11,579 --> 01:39:13,245
MAN:
You don't think we should?
1846
01:39:13,247 --> 01:39:16,215
Well, you're damned if you do
and you're damned if you don't.
1847
01:39:16,217 --> 01:39:18,717
If you do talk to her, you're
gonna piss off a lot of people.
1848
01:39:18,719 --> 01:39:20,052
And if you don't talk to her,
1849
01:39:20,054 --> 01:39:22,254
there's no way you're going
to get the whole story.
1850
01:39:22,256 --> 01:39:25,290
WOMAN: When I was 18,
1851
01:39:25,292 --> 01:39:29,027
I wrote a magazine article
that changed my life.
1852
01:39:29,029 --> 01:39:31,330
It was published in
The New York Times Magazine,
1853
01:39:31,332 --> 01:39:33,999
with a photograph of me
on the cover.
1854
01:39:34,001 --> 01:39:37,169
Within three days of the
publication of that article,
1855
01:39:37,171 --> 01:39:39,605
there were three enormous sacks
of mail
1856
01:39:39,607 --> 01:39:41,407
in front of my dormitory room.
1857
01:39:41,409 --> 01:39:43,475
And in among them was
1858
01:39:43,477 --> 01:39:46,912
this one letter that, um...
1859
01:39:46,914 --> 01:39:49,047
eclipsed all the rest.
1860
01:39:49,049 --> 01:39:51,617
It began, "Dear Ms. Maynard.
1861
01:39:51,619 --> 01:39:54,086
I bet you're sitting in
your college dormitory room
1862
01:39:54,088 --> 01:39:55,587
surrounded by letters
1863
01:39:55,589 --> 01:39:58,023
from magazine editors
and book editors
1864
01:39:58,025 --> 01:39:59,925
and TV people and radio people,"
1865
01:39:59,927 --> 01:40:02,261
all of which was true.
1866
01:40:02,263 --> 01:40:06,598
And then he went on to say that
he knew a thing or two himself
1867
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:09,435
about the dangers, the perils,
of early success.
1868
01:40:09,437 --> 01:40:13,038
He sd, "People will try
to exploit you,
1869
01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:15,941
and I urge you
to be cautious."
1870
01:40:15,943 --> 01:40:18,777
And it was only when I got
to the bottom of the letter --
1871
01:40:18,779 --> 01:40:20,479
and by that time
I was already
1872
01:40:20,481 --> 01:40:22,514
completely connected
to this person --
1873
01:40:22,516 --> 01:40:24,616
that I saw the signature,
J.D. Salinger.
1874
01:40:24,618 --> 01:40:27,686
MAN: He knows exactly
what he's doing.
1875
01:40:27,688 --> 01:40:31,123
He knows exactly how powerful
the name J.D. Salinger is.
1876
01:40:31,125 --> 01:40:34,827
It's a name that, with the right
girl, creates a spell
1877
01:40:34,829 --> 01:40:36,895
that they fall under.
1878
01:40:36,897 --> 01:40:39,231
WOMAN: Getting a letter
from J.D. Salinger
1879
01:40:39,233 --> 01:40:42,601
was like getting a letter
from Holden Caulfield,
1880
01:40:42,603 --> 01:40:45,370
but written just to me.
1881
01:40:47,874 --> 01:40:50,609
Within three days,
there was a second letter,
1882
01:40:50,611 --> 01:40:52,578
and then a third
and a fourth.
1883
01:40:52,580 --> 01:40:55,981
There was never any question
that we would meet.
1884
01:40:55,983 --> 01:40:57,516
And for my mother,
1885
01:40:57,518 --> 01:41:01,153
it was as if J.D. Salinger
had recognized her,
1886
01:41:01,155 --> 01:41:03,222
because I was her product.
1887
01:41:03,224 --> 01:41:06,992
I had been raised to believe
that I was going to do
1888
01:41:06,994 --> 01:41:08,327
big, important things
1889
01:41:08,329 --> 01:41:11,096
and that this was a sign
that I was going to.
1890
01:41:11,098 --> 01:41:14,132
I was going to spend time
with this wonderful man.
1891
01:41:14,134 --> 01:41:16,835
My mother was a little unclear
of the boundaries.
1892
01:41:16,837 --> 01:41:20,339
She sewed me a dress
for our meeting.
1893
01:41:20,341 --> 01:41:24,676
It was an A-line dress with very
bright primary colors.
1894
01:41:24,678 --> 01:41:26,745
Very short dress.
1895
01:41:26,747 --> 01:41:29,248
My English teacher
from high school
1896
01:41:29,250 --> 01:41:32,150
drove me to the Hanover Inn,
where we met.
1897
01:41:32,152 --> 01:41:34,820
Jerry was standing out
on the porch,
1898
01:41:34,822 --> 01:41:38,724
this tall, lanky person,
and he raised his hand
1899
01:41:38,726 --> 01:41:40,526
and he was waving as if
1900
01:41:40,528 --> 01:41:43,161
he was somebody coming in
off a boat.
1901
01:41:43,163 --> 01:41:45,130
He actually jumped
over the banister.
1902
01:41:45,132 --> 01:41:47,266
There was something very boyish
about him.
1903
01:41:47,268 --> 01:41:50,502
I threw my arms around him.
I hugged him.
1904
01:41:50,504 --> 01:41:52,204
He hugged me back.
1905
01:41:52,206 --> 01:41:55,274
And the very first thing he said
when he saw me was,
1906
01:41:55,276 --> 01:41:56,508
"You're wearing the watch."
1907
01:41:56,510 --> 01:42:00,879
Clearly, he'd really studied
my photograph.
1908
01:42:00,881 --> 01:42:04,116
In the story "For Esmé--
with Love and Squalor,"
1909
01:42:04,118 --> 01:42:07,886
the character Esmé is wearing
a very large man's watch.
1910
01:42:10,089 --> 01:42:13,292
I jumped in the front seat
of his little BMW.
1911
01:42:13,294 --> 01:42:14,960
He liked to drive fast
1912
01:42:14,962 --> 01:42:18,030
along these New Hampshire,
Vermont roads.
1913
01:42:18,032 --> 01:42:20,465
Covered bridge.
1914
01:42:20,467 --> 01:42:24,570
Winding, winding, winding
up the hill.
1915
01:42:26,539 --> 01:42:28,774
To his house.
1916
01:42:28,776 --> 01:42:30,375
It was just
1917
01:42:30,377 --> 01:42:34,980
this very quiet, simple place.
1918
01:42:34,982 --> 01:42:38,617
There were no personal items,
1919
01:42:38,619 --> 01:42:41,486
photographs, letters.
1920
01:42:44,724 --> 01:42:48,493
The living room had piles and
piles of New Yorker magazines.
1921
01:42:48,495 --> 01:42:51,430
Books stacked everywhere.
1922
01:42:51,432 --> 01:42:52,965
Movies
stacked everywhere.
1923
01:42:52,967 --> 01:42:54,299
Peggy's room,
there were stacks
1924
01:42:54,301 --> 01:42:56,268
and stacks of movie reels.
1925
01:42:56,270 --> 01:42:58,937
"Maltese Falcon," "Casablanca,"
1926
01:42:58,939 --> 01:43:01,873
"The 39 Steps,"
"The Lady Vanishes" --
1927
01:43:01,875 --> 01:43:03,875
all these old movies.
1928
01:43:03,877 --> 01:43:05,310
He'd make a bowl of popcorn,
1929
01:43:05,312 --> 01:43:08,013
which he'd sprinkle with
brewer's yeast, as I recall.
1930
01:43:08,015 --> 01:43:11,083
And we snuggled up on
this really comfy couch,
1931
01:43:11,085 --> 01:43:13,752
and he threaded the film
through the projector
1932
01:43:13,754 --> 01:43:16,622
and turned out the lights
and it was movie time.
1933
01:43:18,491 --> 01:43:20,525
He loved "Lost Horizon."
1934
01:43:20,527 --> 01:43:23,929
It's a movie about this place
where you never grow old.
1935
01:43:23,931 --> 01:43:27,366
And he said that
the only person
1936
01:43:27,368 --> 01:43:32,638
who ever could have played
Holden Caulfield was himself.
1937
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:37,843
WOMAN: The women in his lives
are really
1938
01:43:37,845 --> 01:43:40,278
projections of his own wishes,
1939
01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:42,414
are characters he creates.
1940
01:43:42,416 --> 01:43:43,448
It's a series
1941
01:43:43,450 --> 01:43:45,484
of very young women,
1942
01:43:45,486 --> 01:43:46,985
because when you're young,
1943
01:43:46,987 --> 01:43:49,221
and particularly if you're
rather lost
1944
01:43:49,223 --> 01:43:53,625
and insecure and
an ungrounded young person,
1945
01:43:53,627 --> 01:43:55,761
it's much easier to become
1946
01:43:55,763 --> 01:43:58,163
who somebody wishes you to be.
1947
01:43:58,165 --> 01:44:00,165
MAYNARD:
I was looking for a sage.
1948
01:44:00,167 --> 01:44:04,369
I was looking for some sense
of meaning to life.
1949
01:44:04,371 --> 01:44:06,905
And I found it
with Salinger.
1950
01:44:06,907 --> 01:44:09,675
But from the moment
I moved in,
1951
01:44:09,677 --> 01:44:12,144
I could do
very little right.
1952
01:44:14,347 --> 01:44:18,950
We had a very set routine.
1953
01:44:18,952 --> 01:44:21,520
The first thing we did
was have a bowl
1954
01:44:21,522 --> 01:44:24,823
of Birds Eye frozen, tender,
tiny peas, not cooked,
1955
01:44:24,825 --> 01:44:27,059
but with warm water poured
over them,
1956
01:44:27,061 --> 01:44:29,127
so they'd defrost
a little bit,
1957
01:44:29,129 --> 01:44:30,495
so they were just cool.
1958
01:44:30,497 --> 01:44:32,798
Then we'd meditate.
1959
01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:36,001
Or at least he would meditate
and I would try to meditate.
1960
01:44:36,003 --> 01:44:39,271
But my mind kept on wandering
to things of the world,
1961
01:44:39,273 --> 01:44:41,373
which was a big problem.
1962
01:44:41,375 --> 01:44:45,644
And then we would
get to work writing.
1963
01:44:45,646 --> 01:44:48,780
He would put on
a canvas jumpsuit to write.
1964
01:44:48,782 --> 01:44:51,917
And he would put it on
like a uniform.
1965
01:44:51,919 --> 01:44:54,286
It was kind of like he
was a soldier
1966
01:44:54,288 --> 01:44:57,689
only he was going off to wage
his war at the typewriter.
1967
01:44:57,691 --> 01:44:59,324
[Typewriter typing]
1968
01:44:59,326 --> 01:45:02,828
He sat on a high chair
at his high desk
1969
01:45:02,830 --> 01:45:05,731
in his writing room and worked
on his typewriter,
1970
01:45:05,733 --> 01:45:09,067
a very old typewriter
that clicked.
1971
01:45:09,069 --> 01:45:12,804
We met at lunch
to discuss life.
1972
01:45:12,806 --> 01:45:15,474
And then we'd carry on a little
bit in the afternoon.
1973
01:45:15,476 --> 01:45:17,375
We'd take a walk.
1974
01:45:17,377 --> 01:45:20,946
Then we came back
and watched TV.
1975
01:45:20,948 --> 01:45:24,049
He cut himself off from
a great deal of the world,
1976
01:45:24,051 --> 01:45:27,185
but maintained a huge interest
in observing it.
1977
01:45:27,187 --> 01:45:29,788
I drew Jerry a lot
back when I lived with him.
1978
01:45:29,790 --> 01:45:33,191
This is a picture of me
sitting on Jerry's lap,
1979
01:45:33,193 --> 01:45:35,327
listening
to very old recordings
1980
01:45:35,329 --> 01:45:37,629
of the Andrews Sisters
and Glenn Miller
1981
01:45:37,631 --> 01:45:41,533
and an obscure German singer
whose name I don't remember,
1982
01:45:41,535 --> 01:45:44,136
who was a singer
from World War II.
1983
01:45:44,138 --> 01:45:46,538
This is a picture of Jerry
and me dancing,
1984
01:45:46,540 --> 01:45:49,274
the television set on --
Lawrence Welk, no doubt.
1985
01:45:49,276 --> 01:45:50,742
The bubbles would come up,
1986
01:45:50,744 --> 01:45:53,478
and we'd watch the show
and we would dance.
1987
01:45:53,480 --> 01:45:57,816
While all of my contemporaries
were off in New Haven,
1988
01:45:57,818 --> 01:46:02,254
doing drugs and listening
to Led Zeppelin.
1989
01:46:02,256 --> 01:46:04,089
[Laughter]
1990
01:46:04,091 --> 01:46:07,159
Every day, I heard typing.
1991
01:46:07,161 --> 01:46:09,261
A lot of typing.
1992
01:46:09,263 --> 01:46:13,799
And there was one space
that was off the bedroom.
1993
01:46:13,801 --> 01:46:15,967
That was a safe.
1994
01:46:15,969 --> 01:46:19,704
I saw two thick manuscripts.
1995
01:46:19,706 --> 01:46:21,573
I've written nine books now.
1996
01:46:21,575 --> 01:46:25,143
I know what the size of a book
manuscript looks like
1997
01:46:25,145 --> 01:46:27,179
and these were thick.
1998
01:46:27,181 --> 01:46:31,082
I never read them,
was never shown them,
1999
01:46:31,084 --> 01:46:33,418
and knew better
than to ask.
2000
01:46:33,420 --> 01:46:36,922
He did show me one thing,
although it wasn't like
2001
01:46:36,924 --> 01:46:39,491
I got to sit down and read it,
and that was
2002
01:46:39,493 --> 01:46:41,860
kind of an archive
of the Glass family,
2003
01:46:41,862 --> 01:46:44,196
who were...
2004
01:46:44,198 --> 01:46:46,965
in his world, as real
as any relatives.
2005
01:46:46,967 --> 01:46:49,968
He was protective
of those characters,
2006
01:46:49,970 --> 01:46:52,103
as if they were
his children.
2007
01:46:59,478 --> 01:47:03,315
Only one time
did I meet friends of his.
2008
01:47:03,317 --> 01:47:04,850
And that was this...
2009
01:47:04,852 --> 01:47:08,053
memorable,
and I guess disastrous, lunch.
2010
01:47:08,055 --> 01:47:12,457
We drove into New York and we
went to the Algonquin.
2011
01:47:12,459 --> 01:47:15,260
And there was this man,
William Shawn.
2012
01:47:15,262 --> 01:47:18,129
I think Jerry Salinger really
loved William Shawn.
2013
01:47:18,131 --> 01:47:19,798
And a writer whose work
I did know,
2014
01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:22,100
because I had read it
and studied it and admired it,
2015
01:47:22,102 --> 01:47:23,835
Lillian Ross.
2016
01:47:23,837 --> 01:47:26,938
But I knew from Jerry that
Lillian Ross and William Shawn
2017
01:47:26,940 --> 01:47:28,373
had been lovers for years,
2018
01:47:28,375 --> 01:47:31,243
although William Shawn
was married to somebody else.
2019
01:47:31,245 --> 01:47:33,678
They were known
as "Ross and Shawn," to Jerry.
2020
01:47:33,680 --> 01:47:38,283
So she asked me what sorts
of things I wrote,
2021
01:47:38,285 --> 01:47:40,585
and I prattled on about
my little career,
2022
01:47:40,587 --> 01:47:42,354
writing for Seventeen
magazine
2023
01:47:42,356 --> 01:47:45,023
and judging the Miss Teenage
America Pageant.
2024
01:47:45,025 --> 01:47:48,260
And Ross shoots William Shawn
a look.
2025
01:47:48,262 --> 01:47:50,762
And I can well imagine
the "Talk of the Town" piece
2026
01:47:50,764 --> 01:47:53,565
that Lillian Ross would have
written about that lunch.
2027
01:47:56,369 --> 01:47:59,371
This lunch must have
deeply embarrassed Jerry,
2028
01:47:59,373 --> 01:48:02,440
because we left
the restaurant rather hastily,
2029
01:48:02,442 --> 01:48:05,076
and we went directly
to Bonwit Teller,
2030
01:48:05,078 --> 01:48:09,547
and he bought me a very
expensive black cashmere coat
2031
01:48:09,549 --> 01:48:12,784
of the sort that Lillian Ross
might have worn.
2032
01:48:16,289 --> 01:48:22,527
I think he was indulging
in a fantasy of innocence,
2033
01:48:22,529 --> 01:48:24,362
that...
2034
01:48:24,364 --> 01:48:27,065
that neither one of us could
hold onto very long.
2035
01:48:27,067 --> 01:48:29,267
[Telephone rings]
2036
01:48:29,269 --> 01:48:32,337
One day,
I heard the telephone ring.
2037
01:48:32,339 --> 01:48:35,540
And I heard him speaking
very briefly.
2038
01:48:35,542 --> 01:48:37,409
And then a click.
2039
01:48:37,411 --> 01:48:42,647
And then he emerged
from his office
2040
01:48:42,649 --> 01:48:45,550
with a look on his face
I had never seen.
2041
01:48:45,552 --> 01:48:52,791
And he said, "Time magazine
has got my number.
2042
01:48:52,793 --> 01:48:54,759
You have ruined my life."
2043
01:48:54,761 --> 01:48:58,630
It was odd because, in fact,
I was doing something
2044
01:48:58,632 --> 01:49:01,232
kind of significant,
I was writing a book.
2045
01:49:01,234 --> 01:49:04,035
And I was finishing a book,
and it was going to be published
2046
01:49:04,037 --> 01:49:05,303
in just a few months.
2047
01:49:05,305 --> 01:49:08,106
But we never discussed
how on earth
2048
01:49:08,108 --> 01:49:10,375
Jerry was going to maintain
2049
01:49:10,377 --> 01:49:14,512
the secrecy of our relationship
with a book being published
2050
01:49:14,514 --> 01:49:16,815
and a publicity campaign.
2051
01:49:16,817 --> 01:49:18,616
And I continued to envision
2052
01:49:18,618 --> 01:49:20,785
and actively discuss
a future.
2053
01:49:20,787 --> 01:49:25,056
And what I wanted most
was a family.
2054
01:49:25,058 --> 01:49:31,062
And that became a big part of
my future planning with Jerry.
2055
01:49:31,064 --> 01:49:33,798
We were going to have children.
2056
01:49:33,800 --> 01:49:38,436
Jerry announced that we were
going to take a trip to Florida.
2057
01:49:38,438 --> 01:49:42,774
It was March, and it was Matthew
and Peggy's school vacation.
2058
01:49:42,776 --> 01:49:46,111
The four of us set out
for Daytona Beach
2059
01:49:46,113 --> 01:49:48,980
and checked into a hotel
on the beach.
2060
01:49:48,982 --> 01:49:53,618
And Matthew wanted to --
I think he wanted to fly a kite
2061
01:49:53,620 --> 01:49:55,387
or he wanted to play in
the water
2062
01:49:55,389 --> 01:49:57,889
or he wanted to do something
that a 12-year-old boy
2063
01:49:57,891 --> 01:50:00,759
would understandably want to do
with his dad on a vacation.
2064
01:50:00,761 --> 01:50:04,329
After Jerry played with Matthew
in the water for a while,
2065
01:50:04,331 --> 01:50:07,298
he came back to the towel
where I was sitting.
2066
01:50:07,300 --> 01:50:10,268
He looked very tired --
not just tired, he looked weary.
2067
01:50:10,270 --> 01:50:13,671
And he said to me,
"I can't do this anymore.
2068
01:50:13,673 --> 01:50:15,573
I'm finished with all
of this.
2069
01:50:15,575 --> 01:50:17,742
I'll never have
any more children."
2070
01:50:22,848 --> 01:50:25,450
And I said...
2071
01:50:25,452 --> 01:50:27,952
"Then... I can't stay."
2072
01:50:31,357 --> 01:50:34,859
And he said,
"You'd better leave now, then."
2073
01:50:34,861 --> 01:50:36,227
He called for a taxi
2074
01:50:36,229 --> 01:50:39,064
and he leaned over and said
to the driver,
2075
01:50:39,066 --> 01:50:41,933
"This girl needs to go
to the airport now,"
2076
01:50:41,935 --> 01:50:44,569
and put two $50 bills
in my hand.
2077
01:50:44,571 --> 01:50:46,971
And I drove away.
2078
01:50:56,248 --> 01:50:58,249
MAN: "A man is in Cornish.
2079
01:50:58,251 --> 01:51:01,786
Amateur, perhaps,
but sentimentally connected.
2080
01:51:01,788 --> 01:51:03,221
The saddest.
2081
01:51:03,223 --> 01:51:06,124
A tragic figure
without a background.
2082
01:51:06,126 --> 01:51:09,294
Needing a future
as much as your past.
2083
01:51:09,296 --> 01:51:10,728
Let me."
2084
01:51:10,730 --> 01:51:13,398
I wrote this note
to J.D. Salinger,
2085
01:51:13,400 --> 01:51:16,734
which I thought that only he
could understand,
2086
01:51:16,736 --> 01:51:19,471
practically begging him
for an audience.
2087
01:51:19,473 --> 01:51:22,507
You wanna go left here?
'Cause I don't go left.
2088
01:51:22,509 --> 01:51:24,709
MAN: There's been countless fans
2089
01:51:24,711 --> 01:51:27,645
now for decades who have
done this.
2090
01:51:27,647 --> 01:51:28,947
They leave notes for him.
2091
01:51:28,949 --> 01:51:30,915
They go up to his house
unannounced.
2092
01:51:30,917 --> 01:51:32,383
They knock on his front door.
2093
01:51:32,385 --> 01:51:37,021
They're showing up to try to
find out from Salinger
2094
01:51:37,023 --> 01:51:41,025
some answer to something
in their lives.
2095
01:51:43,329 --> 01:51:47,465
1978, I remember driving
on this road, alone,
2096
01:51:47,467 --> 01:51:49,367
feeling very lonely,
2097
01:51:49,369 --> 01:51:53,838
next to the Connecticut River,
hoping that J.D. Salinger,
2098
01:51:53,840 --> 01:51:57,775
my hero, would give me
a few minutes of his time.
2099
01:51:57,777 --> 01:52:00,678
One day, I said to my wife,
"I've got to try it.
2100
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:03,748
I've got to go," and I kissed
her goodbye and drove
2101
01:52:03,750 --> 01:52:07,018
450 miles to the
Vermont-New Hampshire border
2102
01:52:07,020 --> 01:52:10,088
and tried to find him.
2103
01:52:10,090 --> 01:52:12,457
I knew this was a hard thing
because I found
2104
01:52:12,459 --> 01:52:14,759
that the neighborhood people
protected him
2105
01:52:14,761 --> 01:52:17,595
and they wouldn't exactly
tell me where he lived.
2106
01:52:17,597 --> 01:52:22,233
WOMAN: Cornish folks
are farm folks.
2107
01:52:22,235 --> 01:52:25,770
And they're very protective
of their land,
2108
01:52:25,772 --> 01:52:28,106
their animals,
and their friends.
2109
01:52:28,108 --> 01:52:30,975
So folks would literally
2110
01:52:30,977 --> 01:52:34,712
scorn you if you talked
about him to anybody.
2111
01:52:34,714 --> 01:52:37,782
He may be the only writer
in American history
2112
01:52:37,784 --> 01:52:39,784
who's created such
a story around himself,
2113
01:52:39,786 --> 01:52:42,554
that just catching
a glimpse of him
2114
01:52:42,556 --> 01:52:45,924
becomes an important experience
in your own life.
2115
01:52:49,762 --> 01:52:53,198
I drove about six miles to where
I thought Salinger lived.
2116
01:52:53,200 --> 01:52:54,432
I wasn't 100% sure.
2117
01:52:56,235 --> 01:52:59,637
I knew that he lived
on top of this mountain,
2118
01:52:59,639 --> 01:53:02,373
this wise man living
in this cabin
2119
01:53:02,375 --> 01:53:04,142
in the White Mountains.
2120
01:53:04,144 --> 01:53:11,249
So I waited below this long,
winding, gravel driveway,
2121
01:53:11,251 --> 01:53:12,884
where I thought he lived.
2122
01:53:16,455 --> 01:53:18,656
Sure enough,
probably in the mid morning,
2123
01:53:18,658 --> 01:53:20,491
two cars came down
the driveway.
2124
01:53:20,493 --> 01:53:22,794
One was his son, Matt Salinger,
a teenager,
2125
01:53:22,796 --> 01:53:26,731
and J.D. Salinger stopped
his car, his BMW, got out.
2126
01:53:26,733 --> 01:53:30,802
Walked over
to the driver's side.
2127
01:53:30,804 --> 01:53:32,670
And I said, "Are you
J.D. Salinger?"
2128
01:53:32,672 --> 01:53:35,273
because I did not recognize him
from the photographs.
2129
01:53:35,275 --> 01:53:36,975
He says, "Yes,
what can I do for you?"
2130
01:53:36,977 --> 01:53:38,443
I said to him very dramatically,
2131
01:53:38,445 --> 01:53:40,111
"I was hoping you could
tell me."
2132
01:53:40,113 --> 01:53:42,747
And he said, "Oh, come on,
don't start that kind of thing.
2133
01:53:42,749 --> 01:53:44,215
Are you under psychiatric care?"
2134
01:53:44,217 --> 01:53:49,687
And he got out of that BMW
in the middle of the forest.
2135
01:53:49,689 --> 01:53:52,991
To me it was almost like he
stepped out of a dream.
2136
01:53:52,993 --> 01:53:54,559
He talked about my life
2137
01:53:54,561 --> 01:53:57,228
as if it was as important
as his life.
2138
01:53:57,230 --> 01:53:59,831
He asked my why I left
my family,
2139
01:53:59,833 --> 01:54:02,900
why I drove 450 miles,
why I left my job,
2140
01:54:02,902 --> 01:54:05,203
and I said to him,
it was his writing.
2141
01:54:05,205 --> 01:54:06,671
I thought he felt like I did
2142
01:54:06,673 --> 01:54:09,140
and I wanted to talk to him
about deep things.
2143
01:54:09,142 --> 01:54:11,142
Then he kind of got
very frustrated.
2144
01:54:11,144 --> 01:54:13,044
And then he stepped back
from my car.
2145
01:54:13,046 --> 01:54:14,979
It was almost like he grew
six inches.
2146
01:54:14,981 --> 01:54:16,481
"I'm a fiction writer.
2147
01:54:16,483 --> 01:54:19,517
There's people come and see me
like you every year
2148
01:54:19,519 --> 01:54:22,754
from all over North America,
from Canada, from Europe.
2149
01:54:22,756 --> 01:54:25,223
I've had to run
from people on the street.
2150
01:54:25,225 --> 01:54:27,258
There's nothing I can tell
these people
2151
01:54:27,260 --> 01:54:29,027
to help them with
their problems.
2152
01:54:29,029 --> 01:54:32,664
I may present questions
in my writing in a certain way
2153
01:54:32,666 --> 01:54:35,566
but I don't pretend
to know the answers."
2154
01:54:35,568 --> 01:54:38,469
He was sick of it,
he'd had 25 years of this.
2155
01:54:38,471 --> 01:54:41,639
He said, "Do you have any other
income besides your writing?"
2156
01:54:41,641 --> 01:54:44,642
because I told him I wanted
to become a published author.
2157
01:54:44,644 --> 01:54:46,144
I told him I was a reporter.
2158
01:54:46,146 --> 01:54:50,148
He got a little bit angry,
got into his car and drove off.
2159
01:54:50,150 --> 01:54:53,484
And as I sat there,
I felt that I blew it,
2160
01:54:53,486 --> 01:54:57,255
my chance to talk intimately
with J.D. Salinger.
2161
01:54:59,491 --> 01:55:01,192
I sat in my own car,
2162
01:55:01,194 --> 01:55:02,493
writing him another note,
2163
01:55:02,495 --> 01:55:04,796
telling him that I was
a little disappointed.
2164
01:55:04,798 --> 01:55:07,799
I'd driven all this way and he'd
only given me a few minutes.
2165
01:55:07,801 --> 01:55:10,802
And as I was finishing the note,
he came back in his car
2166
01:55:10,804 --> 01:55:12,904
and he says,
"Haven't you left yet?"
2167
01:55:12,906 --> 01:55:14,472
I said, "No, I was just gonna
2168
01:55:14,474 --> 01:55:16,741
actually pin this note
up by your door."
2169
01:55:16,743 --> 01:55:19,310
He says, "Well, come over here,
give it to me."
2170
01:55:19,312 --> 01:55:23,147
I gave him the note anhis face
became long and drawn.
2171
01:55:23,149 --> 01:55:24,849
"Jerry, I'm sorry.
2172
01:55:24,851 --> 01:55:27,352
It was probably a mistake
coming to Cornish.
2173
01:55:27,354 --> 01:55:29,987
You're not as deep,
as sentimental as I had hoped,
2174
01:55:29,989 --> 01:55:32,557
the person who wrote
those books I love."
2175
01:55:32,559 --> 01:55:36,861
And then that seemed to defuse
his frustration from earlier,
2176
01:55:36,863 --> 01:55:38,996
and he says,
"Well, I understand it,
2177
01:55:38,998 --> 01:55:42,367
but I'm not a counselor,
I'm a fiction writer."
2178
01:55:42,369 --> 01:55:44,736
And at that point,
I asked him,
2179
01:55:44,738 --> 01:55:46,637
"Don't you want to share
your writing,
2180
01:55:46,639 --> 01:55:49,040
don't you want to
share your feelings with people?
2181
01:55:49,042 --> 01:55:51,008
You stopped publishing
for many years."
2182
01:55:51,010 --> 01:55:53,044
And I remember him saying, "No!"
2183
01:55:53,046 --> 01:55:55,680
And he pointed his finger
almost like a gun,
2184
01:55:55,682 --> 01:55:58,483
and he said, "That's where
writers get in trouble."
2185
01:55:58,485 --> 01:56:00,118
[Gunshots]
2186
01:56:00,120 --> 01:56:01,486
Down!
2187
01:56:03,589 --> 01:56:05,723
MAN: As a police officer
in the 20th Precinct,
2188
01:56:05,725 --> 01:56:09,360
we had a report of shots fired
at One West 72nd Street.
2189
01:56:09,362 --> 01:56:10,661
That's the Dakota!
2190
01:56:10,663 --> 01:56:13,564
MAN: I just couldn't wait
till those police got there.
2191
01:56:13,566 --> 01:56:14,832
I didn't know what to do.
2192
01:56:14,834 --> 01:56:17,635
I took "The Catcher in the Rye"
out of my pocket.
2193
01:56:17,637 --> 01:56:20,271
MAN: There was a man standing
in the street, saying,
2194
01:56:20,273 --> 01:56:21,706
"That's the man doing
the shooting."
2195
01:56:21,708 --> 01:56:24,509
So I drew my gun,
grabbed Chapman,
2196
01:56:24,511 --> 01:56:26,244
and I put him up
against the wall.
2197
01:56:26,246 --> 01:56:28,913
And here is John Lennon being
carried out
2198
01:56:28,915 --> 01:56:31,516
by two police officers
from my precinct.
2199
01:56:31,518 --> 01:56:32,817
And at eye level,
2200
01:56:32,819 --> 01:56:35,686
I see John Lennon's face
with his eyes closed
2201
01:56:35,688 --> 01:56:37,955
and blood coming out
of his mouth.
2202
01:56:37,957 --> 01:56:40,391
They decided to put him in
the radio car
2203
01:56:40,393 --> 01:56:42,894
and take him to the hospital
immediately,
2204
01:56:42,896 --> 01:56:44,195
try to save his life.
2205
01:56:44,197 --> 01:56:45,963
So I handcuffed Chapman.
2206
01:56:45,965 --> 01:56:47,432
I looked down on the ground.
2207
01:56:47,434 --> 01:56:49,300
I said,
"Are these your clothes?"
2208
01:56:49,302 --> 01:56:51,035
He says, "Yes,
and the book, too."
2209
01:56:51,037 --> 01:56:53,271
And I look at the book,
it's "Catcher in the Rye."
2210
01:56:53,273 --> 01:56:56,340
I was literally living inside
of a paperback novel,
2211
01:56:56,342 --> 01:56:58,242
J.D. Salinger's
"The Catcher in the Rye."
2212
01:56:58,244 --> 01:57:01,779
MAN: We have to remember,
the things we produce,
2213
01:57:01,781 --> 01:57:04,849
symbolically and in language,
we have no control
2214
01:57:04,851 --> 01:57:07,819
over what happens to them
once we let them go.
2215
01:57:07,821 --> 01:57:10,354
MAN: Salinger put his depression
into Holden.
2216
01:57:10,356 --> 01:57:11,989
It's almost like black magic.
2217
01:57:11,991 --> 01:57:14,158
Some of his depression
may go away,
2218
01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:17,094
but the character lives,
and there are some readers
2219
01:57:17,096 --> 01:57:18,663
who will take the depression
2220
01:57:18,665 --> 01:57:20,898
out of the character,
into themselves.
2221
01:57:20,900 --> 01:57:23,301
MAN: The conversation
Salinger creates
2222
01:57:23,303 --> 01:57:26,237
between himself
and the reader is so close,
2223
01:57:26,239 --> 01:57:28,406
that if you misread it,
2224
01:57:28,408 --> 01:57:29,740
you read Holden's
2225
01:57:29,742 --> 01:57:34,412
antipathy to the culture
as license to kill.
2226
01:57:34,414 --> 01:57:36,914
MAN: To have the book with him.
2227
01:57:36,916 --> 01:57:39,917
He was right there
with J.D. Salinger,
2228
01:57:39,919 --> 01:57:42,019
right there with Holden.
2229
01:57:42,021 --> 01:57:43,988
CHAPMAN:
Holden wasn't violent,
2230
01:57:43,990 --> 01:57:46,924
but he had a violent thought
of shooting someone.
2231
01:57:46,926 --> 01:57:48,926
The word "kill" is used
a lot in the book.
2232
01:57:48,928 --> 01:57:52,396
"This is my people-shooting hat.
I kill people in this hat."
2233
01:57:52,398 --> 01:57:55,566
The word "phony" is used
over 30 times in the book.
2234
01:57:55,568 --> 01:57:58,970
MAN: Chapman read an article
in Esquire magazine.
2235
01:57:58,972 --> 01:58:01,072
The theme of the article was,
2236
01:58:01,074 --> 01:58:04,709
John Lennon was a sellout.
John Lennon was a phony.
2237
01:58:04,711 --> 01:58:08,546
I'd say to myself,
"That phony, that bastard!"
2238
01:58:08,548 --> 01:58:10,781
MAN: If you are reading the book
through a distorted lens,
2239
01:58:10,783 --> 01:58:14,118
you feel so acutely
Holden's powerleness
2240
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:17,288
and you say, "Yeah.
I feel powerless, too."
2241
01:58:17,290 --> 01:58:20,358
CHAPMAN: John Lennon was talking
to a nobody.
2242
01:58:20,360 --> 01:58:23,027
He signed an album
for a nobody.
2243
01:58:23,029 --> 01:58:25,162
Look at this guy, you know,
he's a big rock star
2244
01:58:25,164 --> 01:58:26,397
and he comes in a limousine.
2245
01:58:26,399 --> 01:58:27,632
He's a phony.
2246
01:58:27,634 --> 01:58:30,635
You want me to teach you what
reality is? Bang!
2247
01:58:30,637 --> 01:58:33,771
MAN: Mark David Chapman
wrote me a letter
2248
01:58:33,773 --> 01:58:36,774
that I should read
"Catcher in the Rye"
2249
01:58:36,776 --> 01:58:40,044
to understand why he committed
this murder.
2250
01:58:40,046 --> 01:58:43,614
He reads that novel in open
court when he is sentenced.
2251
01:58:43,616 --> 01:58:47,552
CHAPMAN: This is my statement,
underlining the word "this."
2252
01:58:47,554 --> 01:58:50,955
If one person used something
I had written
2253
01:58:50,957 --> 01:58:54,425
as their justification
for killing somebody
2254
01:58:54,427 --> 01:58:57,228
I'd say,
"God, people are crazy."
2255
01:58:57,230 --> 01:58:59,564
[Gunfire]
2256
01:58:59,566 --> 01:59:01,666
It didn't end with
the death of John Lennon,
2257
01:59:01,668 --> 01:59:03,668
and you keep paying for this
over and over
2258
01:59:03,670 --> 01:59:05,636
when you hear of the death
of a celebrity
2259
01:59:05,638 --> 01:59:07,805
and maybe they've got
"The Catcher in the Rye"
2260
01:59:07,807 --> 01:59:09,106
as John Hinckley did.
2261
01:59:09,108 --> 01:59:11,509
MAN: Young Hinckley,
the whiz kid who shot Reagan
2262
01:59:11,511 --> 01:59:13,144
and his press secretary,
said,
2263
01:59:13,146 --> 01:59:15,913
"If you want my defense,
all you have to do
2264
01:59:15,915 --> 01:59:17,915
is read
'Catcher in the Rye.'"
2265
01:59:17,917 --> 01:59:20,818
Rebecca Schaeffer was expecting
a script to be delivered
2266
01:59:20,820 --> 01:59:23,487
to her for "Godfather III."
2267
01:59:23,489 --> 01:59:25,890
Rebecca Schaeffer
came to the door.
2268
01:59:25,892 --> 01:59:26,958
[Gunshot]
2269
01:59:26,960 --> 01:59:28,426
She fell.
2270
01:59:28,428 --> 01:59:32,063
Among the pieces of evidence was
a copy of "Catcher in the Rye."
2271
01:59:32,065 --> 01:59:35,533
But if three people use
something I had written
2272
01:59:35,535 --> 01:59:39,337
as justification, I would really
be very, very troubled by it.
2273
01:59:39,339 --> 01:59:42,139
It's not the one,
it's the series of three.
2274
01:59:51,249 --> 01:59:53,384
WOMAN: I would see him downtown
2275
01:59:53,386 --> 01:59:54,685
and I'd say hi
2276
01:59:54,687 --> 01:59:58,222
and he'd walk right by
and not even say hi.
2277
01:59:58,224 --> 02:00:00,224
And I knew him well.
2278
02:00:08,400 --> 02:00:11,035
Margaret Salinger is back
with us this morning
2279
02:00:11,037 --> 02:00:12,403
to talk some more about
2280
02:00:12,405 --> 02:00:14,839
her controversial memoir,
"Dream Catcher."
2281
02:00:14,841 --> 02:00:17,074
The book is an intensely
private look
2282
02:00:17,076 --> 02:00:20,144
at her famous yet very
reclusive father, J.D. Salinger.
2283
02:00:20,146 --> 02:00:23,314
Do you think, Peggy,
he ultimately went into writing
2284
02:00:23,316 --> 02:00:26,884
so he could create characters
or create his own universe
2285
02:00:26,886 --> 02:00:29,220
where people met
his expectations?
2286
02:00:29,222 --> 02:00:36,227
I personally think
that that is certainly
2287
02:00:36,229 --> 02:00:37,928
what's going on.
2288
02:00:40,065 --> 02:00:42,967
WOMAN: I sat and cried
reading that book.
2289
02:00:42,969 --> 02:00:44,902
And I don't know how much
of her book
2290
02:00:44,904 --> 02:00:48,939
is really true
and how much isn't,
2291
02:00:48,941 --> 02:00:53,010
but I think it's the saddest
thing I ever read.
2292
02:00:57,182 --> 02:00:59,917
Guess we shouldn't have got
on that. Sorry.
2293
02:00:59,919 --> 02:01:02,953
WOMAN: Matthew Salinger told me
that the picture
2294
02:01:02,955 --> 02:01:04,455
that his sister painted
2295
02:01:04,457 --> 02:01:06,757
of growing up in
the Salinger household
2296
02:01:06,759 --> 02:01:09,226
was nothing like
his memories of childhood.
2297
02:01:09,228 --> 02:01:11,429
And he was quite adamant
about that.
2298
02:01:11,431 --> 02:01:14,565
How would you characterize
the relationship
2299
02:01:14,567 --> 02:01:16,801
you have with your father today?
2300
02:01:16,803 --> 02:01:19,470
Oh, that's easy -- none.
2301
02:01:19,472 --> 02:01:23,407
For over 20 years,
beginning in 1973,
2302
02:01:23,409 --> 02:01:27,511
I avoided any information
about J.D. Salinger.
2303
02:01:27,513 --> 02:01:29,914
Asked me about him,
I said nothing
2304
02:01:29,916 --> 02:01:32,750
and I wrote nothing
about him.
2305
02:01:32,752 --> 02:01:36,353
And I was at a party
in New York City,
2306
02:01:36,355 --> 02:01:38,956
pregnant with
my third child.
2307
02:01:38,958 --> 02:01:41,459
And there was a woman
who came over to me
2308
02:01:41,461 --> 02:01:42,993
and she said,
2309
02:01:42,995 --> 02:01:47,531
"So, you're the one that lived
with J.D. Salinger.
2310
02:01:47,533 --> 02:01:49,333
He wrote you letters,
didn't he?"
2311
02:01:49,335 --> 02:01:50,835
And then she said,
2312
02:01:50,837 --> 02:01:55,840
"I had an au pair girl who got
lots of letters from him, too."
2313
02:01:55,842 --> 02:02:01,112
And I remember feeling
my stomach drop.
2314
02:02:01,114 --> 02:02:04,749
And that was the first
of what ultimately were
2315
02:02:04,751 --> 02:02:08,753
a surprising number
of stories about girls,
2316
02:02:08,755 --> 02:02:11,589
always girls, getting letters
from Salinger.
2317
02:02:15,026 --> 02:02:16,560
J.D. Salinger's love letters
2318
02:02:16,562 --> 02:02:18,596
come back and kick him
in the ass.
2319
02:02:18,598 --> 02:02:20,131
14 highly personal letters
2320
02:02:20,133 --> 02:02:22,233
by reclusive author
J.D. Salinger
2321
02:02:22,235 --> 02:02:25,536
to then-18-year-old writer
Joyce Maynard in the early '70s
2322
02:02:25,538 --> 02:02:27,738
are top be auctioned
at Sotheby's.
2323
02:02:27,740 --> 02:02:28,773
Salinger's best known
2324
02:02:28,775 --> 02:02:30,474
for writing
"The Catcher in the Rye,"
2325
02:02:30,476 --> 02:02:31,842
while Maynard is best known
2326
02:02:31,844 --> 02:02:34,311
for writing books about having
sex with J.D. Salinger.
2327
02:02:34,313 --> 02:02:36,180
Maynard says she is selling
the letters
2328
02:02:36,182 --> 02:02:37,915
to put her children
through college,
2329
02:02:37,917 --> 02:02:39,617
in the hopes that they can
go there
2330
02:02:39,619 --> 02:02:41,485
and meet some socially
isolated author,
2331
02:02:41,487 --> 02:02:45,055
nail him, and then shamelessly
cash in on it later.
2332
02:02:45,057 --> 02:02:47,892
WOMAN: Joyce Maynard wrote
a sort of kiss-and-tell memoir,
2333
02:02:47,894 --> 02:02:49,393
but when she put up at auction
2334
02:02:49,395 --> 02:02:51,595
the letters that Salinger
had written her,
2335
02:02:51,597 --> 02:02:53,697
Peter Norton,
the software developer,
2336
02:02:53,699 --> 02:02:56,267
thought it was such
a terrible act of disloyalty
2337
02:02:56,269 --> 02:02:59,270
that he bought the letters
and returned them to Salinger.
2338
02:02:59,272 --> 02:03:02,773
WOMAN: When I made the decision
to write that book,
2339
02:03:02,775 --> 02:03:05,276
I needed to go see
Jerry Salinger.
2340
02:03:05,278 --> 02:03:07,645
And I didn't do what
the worshipers did,
2341
02:03:07,647 --> 02:03:10,314
which was to stand at the end
of the driveway.
2342
02:03:10,316 --> 02:03:11,982
[Knocking on door]
2343
02:03:11,984 --> 02:03:15,419
A woman called out to me,
"What do you want?"
2344
02:03:15,421 --> 02:03:16,887
"I've come to see Jerry.
2345
02:03:16,889 --> 02:03:19,490
Would you tell him
Joyce Maynard is here?"
2346
02:03:19,492 --> 02:03:22,660
And then she sort of turned
to me and looked at me
2347
02:03:22,662 --> 02:03:25,529
through the window
and smiled, actually.
2348
02:03:25,531 --> 02:03:30,034
And I realized that that
was the au pair girl, Colleen.
2349
02:03:30,036 --> 02:03:32,803
And then the door opened,
and there he stood.
2350
02:03:32,805 --> 02:03:35,773
And he was shaking his hand
at me, and he said,
2351
02:03:35,775 --> 02:03:37,441
"What are you doing here?"
2352
02:03:37,443 --> 02:03:42,913
I said, "I've come to ask you
a question, Jerry.
2353
02:03:42,915 --> 02:03:46,750
What... What was my purpose
in your life?"
2354
02:03:46,752 --> 02:03:50,621
"That question,
that question...
2355
02:03:50,623 --> 02:03:54,225
you don't deserve an answer
to that question."
2356
02:03:54,227 --> 02:03:58,729
And then he let loose
this torrent.
2357
02:03:58,731 --> 02:04:01,599
"I hear you're writing
something,
2358
02:04:01,601 --> 02:04:03,200
some kind of reminiscence."
2359
02:04:03,202 --> 02:04:06,103
And he said it as if that
was an obscene act.
2360
02:04:06,105 --> 02:04:09,373
He watches very much what's
going on in the world.
2361
02:04:09,375 --> 02:04:13,811
He said, "I always knew this is
what you'd amount to.
2362
02:04:13,813 --> 02:04:15,746
Nothing.
2363
02:04:15,748 --> 02:04:18,449
You have spent your life
2364
02:04:18,451 --> 02:04:21,252
writing meaningless garbage,
2365
02:04:21,254 --> 02:04:23,687
and now you mean
to exploit me."
2366
02:04:23,689 --> 02:04:25,055
Then he said,
2367
02:04:25,057 --> 02:04:30,494
"The problem with you,
Joyce, is
2368
02:04:30,496 --> 02:04:31,562
you...
2369
02:04:31,564 --> 02:04:33,230
love...
2370
02:04:33,232 --> 02:04:35,399
the world."
2371
02:04:47,479 --> 02:04:50,147
I was talking to a friend
who owned a bookstore.
2372
02:04:50,149 --> 02:04:52,716
And I told him, "I'm really
thinking I'll just
2373
02:04:52,718 --> 02:04:55,352
go up to New Hampshire
and find J.D. Salinger."
2374
02:04:55,354 --> 02:04:57,922
And he says, "I think you
ought to call up NASA
2375
02:04:57,924 --> 02:05:00,491
and bum a ride on the next
space shuttle, too."
2376
02:05:00,493 --> 02:05:03,928
Well, the minute you go into
town and say "J.D. Salinger,"
2377
02:05:03,930 --> 02:05:05,429
everybody becomes your enemy.
2378
02:05:05,431 --> 02:05:09,066
This one lady in the shop would
not sell me an ice-cream cone.
2379
02:05:09,068 --> 02:05:12,236
So, I thought, oooh,
not my friendliest place.
2380
02:05:12,238 --> 02:05:15,239
The owner of the market
suggested that I write a note,
2381
02:05:15,241 --> 02:05:17,408
that I didn't need
a mailing address,
2382
02:05:17,410 --> 02:05:20,244
just leave it at
the post office.
2383
02:05:20,246 --> 02:05:21,679
I bought a notebook,
went outside,
2384
02:05:21,681 --> 02:05:22,980
sat on the curb,
wrote a note.
2385
02:05:22,982 --> 02:05:25,516
I was determined not to go
to his property.
2386
02:05:25,518 --> 02:05:27,685
I wasn't going to cross
that river.
2387
02:05:27,687 --> 02:05:30,621
I thought if he came in
voluntarily to where I was,
2388
02:05:30,623 --> 02:05:32,423
that no one could ever say
2389
02:05:32,425 --> 02:05:34,558
with any truth that I had
sabotaged the man,
2390
02:05:34,560 --> 02:05:36,760
that I had waylaid him
or any of those things.
2391
02:05:36,762 --> 02:05:38,562
So I was ready.
2392
02:05:38,564 --> 02:05:41,799
Sat down where I said
I would be and waited.
2393
02:05:41,801 --> 02:05:44,234
He doesn't have to go down
and meet her in her Pinto.
2394
02:05:44,236 --> 02:05:47,571
If he really wants to protect
his seclusion that much,
2395
02:05:47,573 --> 02:05:48,806
he doesn't go.
2396
02:05:48,808 --> 02:05:50,674
EPPES: And so here he came.
2397
02:05:50,676 --> 02:05:54,578
He walked across the bridge.
I didn't know what to expect.
2398
02:05:54,580 --> 02:05:57,448
We've all seen that photograph
on the back of the book.
2399
02:05:57,450 --> 02:06:00,184
You expect people to age,
but...
2400
02:06:00,186 --> 02:06:02,453
somehow it's not the same
as seeing it.
2401
02:06:02,455 --> 02:06:04,655
There he was,
and I was shocked.
2402
02:06:04,657 --> 02:06:06,557
He was as tall as I thought
he would be,
2403
02:06:06,559 --> 02:06:07,825
but he had snow-white hair.
2404
02:06:07,827 --> 02:06:09,360
And I was not prepared for that.
2405
02:06:09,362 --> 02:06:12,963
We shook hands,
and he said,
2406
02:06:12,965 --> 02:06:16,467
"If you're a writer, you need
to quit that newspaper.
2407
02:06:16,469 --> 02:06:19,069
Newspapers serve
no purpose."
2408
02:06:19,071 --> 02:06:21,138
And he said publishing was
2409
02:06:21,140 --> 02:06:24,041
the worst thing a person
could do.
2410
02:06:24,043 --> 02:06:25,709
He insisted that he was working,
2411
02:06:25,711 --> 02:06:28,479
that every writer should write
for their own reasons,
2412
02:06:28,481 --> 02:06:30,447
but it should be for
themselves alone.
2413
02:06:30,449 --> 02:06:32,383
The only important thing
was the writing.
2414
02:06:32,385 --> 02:06:35,285
According to J.D. Salinger.
2415
02:06:35,287 --> 02:06:36,987
What is he writing about?
2416
02:06:36,989 --> 02:06:39,123
He sai "I will say this.
2417
02:06:39,125 --> 02:06:41,525
It is of far more significance
2418
02:06:41,527 --> 02:06:44,962
than anything I ever wrote
about Holden."
2419
02:06:44,964 --> 02:06:47,798
He said, "I have really
serious issues
2420
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:51,935
that I am trying to tackle with
these new writing projects,"
2421
02:06:51,937 --> 02:06:53,971
and he always said "writing."
2422
02:06:53,973 --> 02:06:56,273
I persisted --
I wanted to know
2423
02:06:56,275 --> 02:06:59,943
if he was writing a sequel to
"The Catcher in the Rye."
2424
02:06:59,945 --> 02:07:03,781
And he became rather annoyed,
agitated, and so I finally
2425
02:07:03,783 --> 02:07:06,583
just put the notebook down,
put my pen down,
2426
02:07:06,585 --> 02:07:09,887
and looked up at him and said,
"Why did you come here?"
2427
02:07:09,889 --> 02:07:15,225
He lost some of his intensity,
uncrossed his arms,
2428
02:07:15,227 --> 02:07:19,830
and he said that he thought
writing Holden was a mistake.
2429
02:07:34,045 --> 02:07:37,681
It meant he couldn't live
a normal life.
2430
02:07:37,683 --> 02:07:40,350
His children suffered.
2431
02:07:40,352 --> 02:07:43,120
Why couldn't his life
be his own?
2432
02:07:47,392 --> 02:07:50,694
Then he turned around
and stalked off.
2433
02:07:50,696 --> 02:07:52,362
And so I watched him walk away,
2434
02:07:52,364 --> 02:07:55,466
and I took the photo of him
walking back toward the bridge.
2435
02:07:55,468 --> 02:08:00,070
It was just the personification
of his attitude.
2436
02:08:00,072 --> 02:08:01,805
"Just leave me alone."
2437
02:08:10,148 --> 02:08:13,450
MAN: J.D. Salinger is
very much a Howard Hughes.
2438
02:08:13,452 --> 02:08:17,988
He is still a man in control
of his domain there.
2439
02:08:17,990 --> 02:08:22,226
And it remains to be seen what
actually he is sitting upon.
2440
02:08:34,172 --> 02:08:38,242
I think the guy's earned
the right to do it his way.
2441
02:08:38,244 --> 02:08:40,344
And you know what, whether he's
earned it or not,
2442
02:08:40,346 --> 02:08:42,379
he's doing it his way anyway.
2443
02:08:52,056 --> 02:08:54,191
I guess what I'd like to ask him
is what he's written
2444
02:08:54,193 --> 02:08:55,526
for the last [bleep]
40 years.
2445
02:08:55,528 --> 02:08:57,461
I mean, isn't that what
everybody wants to know?
2446
02:08:57,463 --> 02:08:59,530
MAN: It's the great literary
mystery.
2447
02:08:59,532 --> 02:09:00,797
MAN: I want to believe,
2448
02:09:00,799 --> 02:09:03,300
I want to see more
of the work.
2449
02:09:03,302 --> 02:09:04,835
MAN: He promised in
the back flaps
2450
02:09:04,837 --> 02:09:07,137
of "Franny and Zooey" and in
"Seymour: an introduction"
2451
02:09:07,139 --> 02:09:08,605
that he's writing
other stories.
2452
02:09:08,607 --> 02:09:10,274
I just want
to see that stuff.
2453
02:09:10,276 --> 02:09:13,076
If he published a book tomorrow,
2454
02:09:13,078 --> 02:09:17,548
it would be a number-one
best-seller the next day.
2455
02:09:17,550 --> 02:09:21,418
He very proudly showed me
a set of files
2456
02:09:21,420 --> 02:09:25,422
where a red dot meant "this is
ready to go upon my death,"
2457
02:09:25,424 --> 02:09:28,292
a green dot meant
"this needs editing."
2458
02:09:28,294 --> 02:09:29,660
Someone cracks that code, man,
2459
02:09:29,662 --> 02:09:31,562
it's gonna be the story
of the century.
2460
02:09:31,564 --> 02:09:35,399
MAN: If he does publish, and
the writing is actually good,
2461
02:09:35,401 --> 02:09:37,434
it will be a second act unlike
2462
02:09:37,436 --> 02:09:40,037
almost any American writer
has had.
2463
02:12:12,090 --> 02:12:17,861
MAN: I wanted you to ask me
if I ever met J.D. Salinger.
2464
02:12:17,863 --> 02:12:22,632
INTERVIEWER: Mr. Berg, have you
ever met J.D. Salinger?
2465
02:12:22,634 --> 02:12:25,869
I've never met J.D. Salinger.
2466
02:12:25,871 --> 02:12:27,637
But I came close.
2467
02:12:27,639 --> 02:12:32,209
When I was researching my book
on Max Perkins,
2468
02:12:32,211 --> 02:12:34,611
I went up to visit
Max Perkins' sister.
2469
02:12:34,613 --> 02:12:36,880
And as we're sitting there
at dinner,
2470
02:12:36,882 --> 02:12:39,616
I said, "Gosh, as I was
driving up to see you,
2471
02:12:39,618 --> 02:12:42,886
it occurred to me that across
the covered bridge
2472
02:12:42,888 --> 02:12:46,723
is Cornish, New Hampshire, and
J.D. Salinger lives over there.
2473
02:12:46,725 --> 02:12:49,226
Have you ever seen
J.D. Salinger?"
2474
02:12:49,228 --> 02:12:51,862
And she said,
"Well, why do you want to know?"
2475
02:12:51,864 --> 02:12:54,965
I said,
"Well, I was just curious."
2476
02:12:54,967 --> 02:12:56,900
And she said, "Well...
2477
02:12:56,902 --> 02:12:59,870
as a matter of fact, he sat in
that chair you're sitting in
2478
02:12:59,872 --> 02:13:03,707
just last night
when I served him dinner."
2479
02:13:03,709 --> 02:13:06,042
I said, "You're kidding."
2480
02:13:06,044 --> 02:13:08,245
She said, "No, no, he comes
over here regularly,
2481
02:13:08,247 --> 02:13:10,313
'cause he comes over
to pick up his mail.
2482
02:13:10,315 --> 02:13:11,548
He'll stop in.
2483
02:13:11,550 --> 02:13:14,117
Sometimes I'll ask him
to stay to dinner."
2484
02:13:14,119 --> 02:13:16,086
I said, "Really?
J.D. Salinger?"
2485
02:13:34,138 --> 02:13:37,941
She said, "Well, do you have
anything to say to him?
2486
02:13:37,943 --> 02:13:41,278
I mean, if I had J.D. Salinger
in here to dinner,
2487
02:13:41,280 --> 02:13:43,447
what would you want to know?"
2488
02:13:43,449 --> 02:13:47,784
I said, "Well, I think I'dant
to know if he's still writing."
2489
02:13:47,786 --> 02:13:51,288
She said, "Well, yes,
he's still writing."
2490
02:13:51,290 --> 02:13:54,958
I said, "Okay."
2491
02:13:54,960 --> 02:13:57,727
And she said, "Anything else
you'd want to know?"
2492
02:13:57,729 --> 02:14:00,764
I said, "No, just that he's
okay, I guess."
2493
02:14:00,766 --> 02:14:03,834
She says, "He's fine."
2494
02:14:03,836 --> 02:14:08,605
¶ Every moment
was so precious ¶
2495
02:14:08,607 --> 02:14:13,243
"So there's no reason for you
ever to see him, is there?"
2496
02:14:13,245 --> 02:14:15,445
Dinner was over.
Whoosh!
2497
02:14:15,447 --> 02:14:19,349
That was as close as I got
to J.D. Salinger.
2498
02:14:19,351 --> 02:14:22,752
¶ It's such a perfect
day ¶
2499
02:14:27,325 --> 02:14:30,060
¶ I remember ¶
2500
02:14:30,062 --> 02:14:31,061
¶ We were walking up
to strawberry swing ¶
2501
02:14:31,462 --> 02:14:33,196
Stay tuned for Charlie Rose
2502
02:14:33,264 --> 02:14:35,599
with "Salinger" director
Shane Salerno.
2503
02:14:36,234 --> 02:14:38,702
ROSE: Shane Salerno,
the director of the film
2504
02:14:38,769 --> 02:14:40,604
and co-author of the book,
"Salinger."
2505
02:14:40,671 --> 02:14:42,172
I am pleased to have him here.
2506
02:14:42,240 --> 02:14:45,709
WhSalinger?
For you?
2507
02:14:45,776 --> 02:14:47,477
There were several reasons.
2508
02:14:47,545 --> 02:14:51,448
First, in my house,
when I was a kid,
2509
02:14:51,516 --> 02:14:54,150
Salinger was
a big deal.
2510
02:14:54,218 --> 02:14:57,654
My mother really loved Salinger
2511
02:14:57,722 --> 02:15:00,023
and made sure that I knew
about Salinger
2512
02:15:00,091 --> 02:15:01,625
and that I read Salinger.
2513
02:15:01,692 --> 02:15:04,127
There were two aspects
of this.
2514
02:15:04,195 --> 02:15:06,263
The first was the work,
2515
02:15:06,330 --> 02:15:09,533
and it was how much she loved
the work
2516
02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:13,403
and how much I became a true
admirer of his work.
2517
02:15:13,471 --> 02:15:16,072
But the second was the man.
2518
02:15:16,140 --> 02:15:20,176
My mother was fascinated
by Salinger the man,
2519
02:15:20,244 --> 02:15:24,514
who turned his back on celebrity
before celebrity was celebrity.
2520
02:15:24,582 --> 02:15:27,417
And she would talk about
this kind of iconic figure
2521
02:15:27,485 --> 02:15:29,719
who lived in the woods
of New Hampshire
2522
02:15:29,787 --> 02:15:31,888
and he didn't want
to be disturbed.
2523
02:15:31,956 --> 02:15:34,791
And so there was this mythology
around the work
2524
02:15:34,859 --> 02:15:37,661
that I was incredibly...
2525
02:15:37,728 --> 02:15:40,330
interested in as a child.
2526
02:15:40,398 --> 02:15:41,631
But I didn't know --
2527
02:15:41,699 --> 02:15:44,067
like a lot of people who love
Salinger's work,
2528
02:15:44,135 --> 02:15:46,069
they don't know much
about his life.
2529
02:15:46,137 --> 02:15:50,540
And so I began, when I started
this around 2003, 2004 --
2530
02:15:50,608 --> 02:15:54,177
ROSE: Now, when you started
this, you were starting what?
2531
02:15:54,245 --> 02:15:57,614
Well, originally I was thinking
of doing it as a feature film,
2532
02:15:57,682 --> 02:16:00,250
and I was very interested in
having Daniel Day Lewis
2533
02:16:00,318 --> 02:16:03,553
play J.D. Salinger, and I had
had friends make films with him
2534
02:16:03,621 --> 02:16:07,324
and they had told me that he was
very serious about research
2535
02:16:07,391 --> 02:16:09,926
and that he needed a wealth
of information
2536
02:16:09,994 --> 02:16:12,228
before he would ever
consider anything,
2537
02:16:12,296 --> 02:16:13,597
so for an unplanned,
2538
02:16:13,664 --> 02:16:16,466
for a hoped meeting that I would
have with him,
2539
02:16:16,534 --> 02:16:18,501
I started doing
a lot of research.
2540
02:16:18,569 --> 02:16:21,338
And that research
2541
02:16:21,405 --> 02:16:23,440
led me to start talking
with people
2542
02:16:23,507 --> 02:16:25,942
that had never spoken before
on the record.
2543
02:16:26,010 --> 02:16:27,677
And it became very clear to me
after that --
2544
02:16:27,745 --> 02:16:29,079
ROSE: Did you film
these interviews?
2545
02:16:29,146 --> 02:16:30,447
I didn't, initially.
2546
02:16:30,514 --> 02:16:32,983
It was over the phone,
and some in person,
2547
02:16:33,050 --> 02:16:34,884
but it became very clear to me
2548
02:16:34,952 --> 02:16:37,020
that those stories
had to be told.
2549
02:16:37,088 --> 02:16:38,922
ROSE: And it became clear
this was
2550
02:16:38,990 --> 02:16:40,557
a documentary,
not a feature film?
2551
02:16:40,625 --> 02:16:43,059
Yes, it became clear to me that
most of these people
2552
02:16:43,127 --> 02:16:46,630
were in their late 80s,
early 90s -- 93, 94, 95 --
2553
02:16:46,697 --> 02:16:50,634
and that they were
passing away very quickly.
2554
02:16:50,701 --> 02:16:53,036
And that if their stories
weren't recorded now,
2555
02:16:53,104 --> 02:16:54,638
they would be lost forever.
2556
02:16:54,705 --> 02:16:58,174
And I began a quest,
and that's really what it was.
2557
02:16:58,242 --> 02:16:59,943
At the time, I went in
very naively.
2558
02:17:00,011 --> 02:17:02,178
I thought it was going to be
a six-month project
2559
02:17:02,246 --> 02:17:04,614
that was going to cost
$300,000.
2560
02:17:04,682 --> 02:17:07,017
It ended up being
a 10-year project
2561
02:17:07,084 --> 02:17:09,386
that cost $2 million
of my own money.
2562
02:17:09,453 --> 02:17:10,920
ROSE: Of your own money?
2563
02:17:10,988 --> 02:17:12,222
Of my own money.
2564
02:17:12,289 --> 02:17:15,558
I was 30 when I started,
I was 40 when I finished.
2565
02:17:15,626 --> 02:17:18,862
It was a decade-long
detective story.
2566
02:17:18,929 --> 02:17:22,866
You know, this was a deeply
complex and contradictory man.
2567
02:17:22,933 --> 02:17:25,301
Nothing that we found about
his personal life
2568
02:17:25,369 --> 02:17:27,237
takes away from
the astonishing work.
2569
02:17:27,304 --> 02:17:28,772
The thing that comes to mind
2570
02:17:28,839 --> 02:17:31,908
is "A Beautiful Mind,"
the great story.
2571
02:17:31,976 --> 02:17:34,377
ROSE: About
the mathematician.
2572
02:17:34,445 --> 02:17:37,380
Yes, and there are real
parallels in that story.
2573
02:17:37,448 --> 02:17:41,117
There are things that John Nash
does in the film and book,
2574
02:17:41,185 --> 02:17:43,720
wonderful book,
of "A Beautiful Mind"
2575
02:17:43,788 --> 02:17:45,488
that are uncomfortable.
2576
02:17:45,556 --> 02:17:48,858
But they are surrounded
by damage, in his case,
2577
02:17:48,926 --> 02:17:51,795
just like Salinger,
psychological damage,
2578
02:17:51,862 --> 02:17:53,263
and...
2579
02:17:53,330 --> 02:17:57,634
And they are critical
to understanding...
2580
02:17:57,702 --> 02:17:58,868
Salinger.
2581
02:17:58,936 --> 02:18:00,870
And so they do share that.
2582
02:18:00,938 --> 02:18:04,207
They do share that these are
complicated men,
2583
02:18:04,275 --> 02:18:08,278
men of genius, who you're
going to see do
2584
02:18:08,345 --> 02:18:09,746
uncomfortable things,
2585
02:18:09,814 --> 02:18:12,048
at the same time they were
producing
2586
02:18:12,116 --> 02:18:14,117
some of the greatest work
ever.
2587
02:18:14,185 --> 02:18:16,419
ROSE: I want to show
some photographs.
2588
02:18:16,487 --> 02:18:17,921
Here is Salinger
2589
02:18:17,988 --> 02:18:20,990
during the height of the war
at a writing table.
2590
02:18:21,058 --> 02:18:24,294
SALERNO: This is the only known
photograph of J.D. Salinger --
2591
02:18:24,361 --> 02:18:26,496
took me 10 years to find
this photo --
2592
02:18:26,564 --> 02:18:29,099
the only known photograph
of J.D. Salinger ever
2593
02:18:29,166 --> 02:18:31,000
writing
"The Catcher in the Rye."
2594
02:18:31,068 --> 02:18:32,702
J.D. Salinger landed on D-Day
2595
02:18:32,770 --> 02:18:35,672
carrying the six chapters of
"The Catcher in the Rye."
2596
02:18:35,740 --> 02:18:36,940
Literally had them.
2597
02:18:37,007 --> 02:18:39,142
Other guys had pictures of
their girlfriends
2598
02:18:39,210 --> 02:18:41,544
or letters from their mom,
and J.D. Salinger had
2599
02:18:41,612 --> 02:18:43,980
six chapters of "The Catcher
in the Rye" with him.
2600
02:18:44,048 --> 02:18:47,283
And he carried those chapters
with him like a talisman.
2601
02:18:47,351 --> 02:18:49,452
And that's a very special
photo.
2602
02:18:49,520 --> 02:18:52,422
When we got that photo,
Charlie, it was this size.
2603
02:18:52,490 --> 02:18:54,691
You couldn't even make out
what it was.
2604
02:18:54,759 --> 02:18:56,326
ROSE: How did you get it?
2605
02:18:56,393 --> 02:18:58,762
We got it from
the Fitzgerald family,
2606
02:18:58,829 --> 02:19:01,765
who was one of Salinger's
closest and dearest friends,
2607
02:19:01,832 --> 02:19:05,602
who was sitting on this mountain
of photos and letters
2608
02:19:05,669 --> 02:19:07,771
that he had kept since 1945.
2609
02:19:07,838 --> 02:19:10,607
And we were able to
convince them over time
2610
02:19:10,674 --> 02:19:12,842
to share those letters
with us.
2611
02:19:12,910 --> 02:19:16,079
ROSE: Three murders
were committed
2612
02:19:16,147 --> 02:19:19,649
by people who referenced
"Catcher in the Rye."
2613
02:19:19,717 --> 02:19:22,285
Not one, not two, but three.
2614
02:19:22,353 --> 02:19:23,620
Yes.
2615
02:19:23,687 --> 02:19:25,021
And there's actually more.
2616
02:19:25,089 --> 02:19:27,323
Those are the three that are
the most celebrated.
2617
02:19:27,391 --> 02:19:29,392
ROSE: John Lennon being
the most.
2618
02:19:29,460 --> 02:19:32,061
John Lennon, the shooting
of Ronald Reagan,
2619
02:19:32,129 --> 02:19:33,897
and the shooting of
an actress in Hollywood
2620
02:19:33,964 --> 02:19:37,433
named Rebecca Schaeffer,
1980, '81, and '89,
2621
02:19:37,501 --> 02:19:39,302
in one decade.
2622
02:19:39,370 --> 02:19:42,739
And again, something that is
truly unique to Salinger.
2623
02:19:42,807 --> 02:19:46,009
There's no murders connected to
"To Kill a Mockingbird"
2624
02:19:46,076 --> 02:19:48,244
or any other, "Great Gatsby,"
or...
2625
02:19:48,312 --> 02:19:51,748
It's a bizarre phenomenon
that...
2626
02:19:51,816 --> 02:19:55,685
lies in a very weird
misreading of the book.
2627
02:19:55,753 --> 02:20:01,157
People taking Holden's thoughts,
private thoughts,
2628
02:20:01,225 --> 02:20:04,227
and enacting them
on other people.
2629
02:20:04,295 --> 02:20:07,597
People taking the idea of
there being phonies in the world
2630
02:20:07,665 --> 02:20:09,632
and wanting to destroy
those phonies.
2631
02:20:09,700 --> 02:20:11,835
It was one of the most
shocking things
2632
02:20:11,902 --> 02:20:14,771
that we discovered was that
there was this connection.
2633
02:20:14,839 --> 02:20:18,241
And here's what's really crazy,
that the killers
2634
02:20:18,309 --> 02:20:20,243
not only did this but then
2635
02:20:20,311 --> 02:20:23,780
actually communicated
with each other afterward.
2636
02:20:23,848 --> 02:20:26,249
And actually would discuss
their affection
2637
02:20:26,317 --> 02:20:28,051
for "The Catcher in the Rye."
2638
02:20:28,118 --> 02:20:30,687
In Mark David Chapman's case,
he stood in open court
2639
02:20:30,754 --> 02:20:32,488
and said, "This is my statement"
2640
02:20:32,556 --> 02:20:34,424
and started reading
from the book.
2641
02:20:34,491 --> 02:20:36,759
When they came to arrest him,
he said, "There's the book."
2642
02:20:36,827 --> 02:20:40,063
Yeah. In two of the three cases,
they brought the books with them
2643
02:20:40,130 --> 02:20:42,565
when they did the shooting.
2644
02:20:42,633 --> 02:20:44,334
And that's...
2645
02:20:44,401 --> 02:20:46,102
That they wanted it
as a talisman.
2646
02:20:46,170 --> 02:20:48,338
ROSE: What did the book say
to these people?
2647
02:20:48,405 --> 02:20:50,807
Well, you know, there are
references in the book
2648
02:20:50,875 --> 02:20:54,077
to "my people-shooting hat" and
certain things that Holden says.
2649
02:20:54,144 --> 02:20:55,812
But it's important to
remember that
2650
02:20:55,880 --> 02:20:57,113
this book has been read by
2651
02:20:57,181 --> 02:21:00,617
60, 70, 80 million people
around the world
2652
02:21:00,684 --> 02:21:03,686
and these are very specific,
disturbed cases
2653
02:21:03,754 --> 02:21:05,655
of disturbed individuals.
2654
02:21:05,723 --> 02:21:08,758
But if you misread the book,
you can read
2655
02:21:08,826 --> 02:21:12,462
Holden's antipathy
to the culture...
2656
02:21:12,529 --> 02:21:15,431
as some kind of bizarre license
to kill.
2657
02:21:15,499 --> 02:21:16,966
ROSE: Ten years of your life.
2658
02:21:17,034 --> 02:21:18,601
SALERNO: Ten years of my life.
2659
02:21:18,669 --> 02:21:22,205
It was an incredible
detective story,
2660
02:21:22,273 --> 02:21:25,275
trying to
understand this man.
2661
02:21:25,342 --> 02:21:27,143
Trying to understand
what happened.
2662
02:21:27,211 --> 02:21:30,146
It really started with, what
happened to J.D. Salinger?
2663
02:21:30,214 --> 02:21:31,447
Why would someone sell
2664
02:21:31,515 --> 02:21:33,583
65 million copies of a book
and disappear?
2665
02:21:33,651 --> 02:21:35,685
Why would someone be
the toast of New York
2666
02:21:35,753 --> 02:21:37,587
and want to vanish?
2667
02:21:37,655 --> 02:21:42,692
Did he really write every day
for 45 years? Alone?
2668
02:21:42,760 --> 02:21:45,094
To me, that was one of the most
astonishing parts of this,
2669
02:21:45,162 --> 02:21:46,396
that every day --
2670
02:21:46,463 --> 02:21:48,598
Can you imagine someone like --
2671
02:21:48,666 --> 02:21:52,135
you know, if Terrence Malick
or Steven Spielberg
2672
02:21:52,202 --> 02:21:54,103
had stopped making films,
2673
02:21:54,171 --> 02:21:57,740
but privately were making films
2674
02:21:57,808 --> 02:22:00,443
that they weren't showing
to anyone for 45 years?
2675
02:22:00,511 --> 02:22:03,546
I mean, there is no precedent
for this.
2676
02:22:03,614 --> 02:22:07,250
There's no precedent for
a writer of his caliber
2677
02:22:07,318 --> 02:22:09,018
and weight
2678
02:22:09,086 --> 02:22:12,221
writing for 45 years
and not publishing.
2679
02:22:12,289 --> 02:22:15,058
And at the same time...
2680
02:22:15,125 --> 02:22:18,261
we have to ask ourselves
is the work full of silence
2681
02:22:18,329 --> 02:22:20,997
and are we going to get
the work of silence,
2682
02:22:21,065 --> 02:22:22,498
silence from the world?
2683
02:22:22,566 --> 02:22:26,436
Or is it going to be...
2684
02:22:26,503 --> 02:22:28,271
the masterworks for which
we hope?
2685
02:22:28,339 --> 02:22:30,840
And I'm betting on
the masterworks.
2686
02:22:30,908 --> 02:22:32,842
I'm betting on J.D. Salinger.
2687
02:22:32,910 --> 02:22:34,344
ROSE: Shane Salerno,
2688
02:22:34,411 --> 02:22:35,845
"Salinger."
2689
02:22:35,913 --> 02:22:37,880
Thank you for joining us.
2690
02:22:40,117 --> 02:22:45,321
¶ We were walking up
to strawberry swing ¶
2691
02:22:45,389 --> 02:22:51,027
¶ I can't wait until
the morning ¶
2692
02:22:51,095 --> 02:22:55,198
¶ Wouldn't wanna change
a thing ¶
2693
02:22:57,167 --> 02:22:59,702
To learn more about
J.D. Salinger
2694
02:22:59,770 --> 02:23:03,673
and other American masters,
visit pbs.org/americanmasters
2695
02:23:03,741 --> 02:23:07,143
or find us on Facebook,
Twitter, and Tumblr.
2696
02:23:07,211 --> 02:23:09,278
The companion book
to "Salinger"
2697
02:23:09,346 --> 02:23:12,615
is available for $37.50
plus shipping.
2698
02:23:12,683 --> 02:23:17,053
To order, call
1-800-336-1917
2699
02:23:17,121 --> 02:23:18,921
or write to the address
on your screen.
2700
02:23:18,989 --> 02:23:24,193
¶ It's such a perfect day ¶
2701
02:23:24,261 --> 02:23:24,193
¶ It's such
a perfect day ¶