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Millions of pilgrims flocked
to this small town in Portugal.

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Was a vision of the Virgin
Mary really seen here?

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In Ireland, believers
and non-believers

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say they see this statue move.

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Is it a miracle or does
science have an explanation?

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An apparition of the Virgin
Mary on a church wall.

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But has an investigator
unlocked its secrets?

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Mysteries from the files
of Arthur C. Clarke,

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author of 2001 and inventor of
the communications satellite.

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Now in retreat in Sri Lanka,
he ponders the riddles

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of this and other worlds.

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This fishing harbor at Negombo
has a special significance

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in the history of Sri Lanka.

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It's here that Portuguese
colonists first made

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landfall in the 16th century.

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They were after the spices
that grow wild in the jungle,

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especially the cinnamon.

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The Portuguese rule was
brief, only 60 years.

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But they left this
island one enduring

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legacy, a network of magnificent
Roman Catholic churches.

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Like all Catholics, the
worshipers of Negombo

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have a special reverence
for the blessed Virgin

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Mary, the mother of Christ.

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Back in Europe,
over the centuries,

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a tiny handful of her
followers have claimed

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that she has actually
appeared to them in person,

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usually with a
message for mankind.

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Such visions inspire
both extraordinary mass

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devotion and controversy.

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The faithful accept
them as miracles

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while skeptics probe for more
down to earth explanations.

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By unique coincidence,
the answers

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may be found in the homeland
of those who brought

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the Roman Catholic faith here.
Portugal.

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They come from nearby,
they come from far away.

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In their stockinged feet, in
walking boots, and finally,

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on their knees.

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From all over the
world, four million

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pilgrims a year flock to Fatima.

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The pilgrims are drawn here
because, in 1917, some children

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said they saw a vision.

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The faithful believe that Fatima
is the site of a true miracle.

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Today, Fatima welcomes pilgrims
in their hundreds of thousands.

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The shrine is a far cry from the
simple pastures that lay here

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in 1917 when the three
young visionaries

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came out to graze their sheep.

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Lucia de Jesus who was 10
came here with her cousins

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Francisco and Jacinta who
were nine and seven years old.

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It was May to 13th.

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At mid-day, the children
said, a bright light heralded

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a vision of the Virgin.

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She told them to
return on the 13th day

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of the next five months.

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I think they saw because
they were sincere.

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They had no influence from their
parents, from other persons.

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So they were alone
in their sincerity.

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I think they have
clearly seen a vision.

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Yes.

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Across Europe, shrines
have been established

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where children had visions.

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At Lourdes in France,
Bernadette Soubirous claims

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she saw the Virgin in 1879.

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In 1961, youngsters
at Garabandal in Spain

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proclaimed that the Virgin
Mary was appearing to them.

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And in 1981, six children
at Medjugorje in Bosnia

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said that Virgin was bringing
than messages of hope.

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At Fatima, the
highlight of each day

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is the evening precession
when the Virgin

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is paraded among the pilgrims.

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It was on this spot in
1917 that the Virgin

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promised the children a
miracle for all to see.

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[SINGING HYMNS]

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100,000 people turned
up on October the 13th.

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[SINGING HYMNS]

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The day started with heavy rain.

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Those that had come
to scoff mocked

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the faithful for
expecting to see

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anything in such conditions.

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But just before noon
the downpour stopped

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and the sun appeared.

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Father Guerra's predecessor
as parish priest

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wrote down this testimony.

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It's noon now.

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It's the time of apparition.

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And that time I began seeing the
sun who turned, turned around,

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turned around, come down, and
just touched against me so

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that I have only the
time to kneel on the mat

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and to ask God, my God,
pardon me because I die here.

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Every person there,
believer or non-believer,

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saw the same thing.

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The sun appeared
to move in the sky.

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There was a blue
quality to the light.

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The sun appeared to
get larger and larger.

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They thought it was
coming right at them.

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Many feared for their lives.

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The newspaper headlines reported
the sun dancing in the sky.

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Thousands of
witnesses, they said,

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had seen a miracle at Fatima.

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Can science explain why
the sun danced that day?

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Dr. Stuart Campbell
thinks the crowd

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saw not a miracle
but a rarely observed

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atmospheric phenomenon.

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Naturally, I was looking
for a logical, rational

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scientific explanation.

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But I was aware that
dust in the atmosphere

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can cause the sun and sometimes
the moon to change color.

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In fact, a blue sun was
recorded in September 1950

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at the site where
Campbell now stands.

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Scientists at the Royal
Scottish Observatory

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discovered it was caused by a
cloud of tiny smoke particles.

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These came from a
forest fire in Canada.

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They'd been carried thousands
of miles to Britain by the wind.

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I concluded that the
same cause must have

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caused the blue sun at Fatima.

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And the only reason they could
be fine particles above Fatima

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at the time would be a
cloud, a fairly large cloud

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of fine particles
moving across Portugal--

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western Portugal at that time.

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Campbell believes
the crowds at Fatima

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saw the sun through a dust
thrown up by a volcano

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thousands of miles away.

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I looked at all the
explosions of volcanoes--

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it has to be a explosive
volcano for the dust

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be thrown up in the atmosphere--
and there was a Costa Rican

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explosion-- volcano in Costa
Rica that exploded about

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a few weeks before this event.

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Although, it's only about 10
degrees north of the equator.

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And it could be dust
from that explosion

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that caused this event.

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Campbell's suspicions
were confirmed

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when he checked the winds
prevailing at the time.

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They were blowing in the right
direction from Costa Rica

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to have created a
blue sun in Portugal.

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It's a simple
meteorological phenomenon.

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The reason people thought
the sun was advancing

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towards them was as
the cloud got thinner

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the sun would get brighter.

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And people often mistake
a brightening object for

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an object moving towards them.

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So there were used to
this dull, bluish sun.

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Suddenly gets brighter
and yellow and comes--

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seems to come advancing
towards the earth.

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Which is what they described.

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But it was just
the sun returning

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to its normal brightness.

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But Dr. Campbell agrees
one mystery remains.

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He can not explain how the
miracle occurred exactly

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when the children predicted.

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Why it happened just when
these children were saying,

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look at the sun, I can't
really say except that it

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was a remarkable coincidence
that just as they were claiming

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that there was going
to be a miracle

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there was a rare
phenomenon occurring

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right above their heads.

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It was a remarkable coincidence.

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In Fatima, four
million pilgrims a year

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believe the explanation lies
in more than coincidence

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and not in the realm of science.

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I think it's a question of
faith even for scientists.

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They cannot prove that it
was really a natural event.

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They can not prove it.

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So if they cannot prove
it, they believe it.

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They believe it natural,
I believe it supernatural.

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It's a question of faith.

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[SINGING HYMNS]

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I've noticed two
things that most

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reports of sightings of the
Virgin Mary have in common.

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The first is that
they usually come

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from children, some so
young that we should

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be wary of their testimony.

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The second is that
they occur in very

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remote places such as
the village of Knock

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in the far west of Ireland.

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In 1979, the world's press
landed on the vast runway

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at Ireland's newest
international airport.

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It was built thanks
to a campaign

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by this man, Father James Horan.

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He persuaded the
Irish government

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that Horan International
was the only place that

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could accommodate the jet
loads of pilgrims that

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flew in to visit his parish.

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For it was here,
a century before,

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that an extraordinary
vision of the Virgin

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was seen on the
wall of his church.

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100 years ago, Knock
had a modest church.

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It's south gable was plain
with just a single window.

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But at 8 o'clock on the 21st
of August during a rainstorm,

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the was is said to have
shown with an apparition

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of the Virgin Mary
flanked by two saints.

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Soon after, Knock became
a place of pilgrimage,

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especially for the disabled.

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Today an investigator
has commissioned

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an exact replica
of the gable end

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wall of Knock parish church.

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He needs it for an
experiment which

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he believes will explain
what was really going

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on when the Virgin appeared.

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00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:17,430
Melvin Harris insists the
measurements of this replica

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must be exact.

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For this experiment, the
position of the window

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is crucial.

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And he needs everything in
place as he believes it was

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on the night of the apparition.

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Most important of all, he
needs a magical lantern.

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It's the forerunner of
today's slide projector,

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and Harris believes it holds
the key to unlock the mystery.

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He also needs darkness
and he needs rain

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to create the exact
conditions of the night

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the vision was seen.

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Melvin Harris looked at
reports from the time.

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He discovered that
the local priest

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was unpopular with
his parishioners.

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The miracle at the church
would have changed everything.

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Harris believes
the priest acquired

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a magic lantern and a mirror.

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He used the lantern to project
a slide through the window.

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The mirror then deflected the
image down to the wall below.

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The result, an
apparition seemingly

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from nowhere and with
no detectable beam

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of light in front.

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Water, please.

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Harris is a
stickler for detail.

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He's ordered a rainstorm
from the local firemen.

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Everything must be exactly
as it was on the night

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of the vision of Knock.

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Now the image Harris has
reproduced on the wall

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can be compared
with the testimony

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of the original eye witnesses.

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They describe the
figure as being life

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sized and, say, about 5 feet 5.

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They also said that there
were lines around the figures.

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There was no question of
them being flesh and blood.

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Statues from beginning to end.

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No one ever said that they
saw a movement and no one

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ever said this or anything
that resembled a human being.

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It was this testimony
that convinced Harris

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that the priest had
used a magic lantern

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slide to create the apparition.

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00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:21,790
Evidence from
witnesses further away

262
00:13:21,790 --> 00:13:24,850
added support to his theory.

263
00:13:24,850 --> 00:13:27,400
One or two witnesses
from a long way

264
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:34,550
off spoke of a great circle
of light on the gable end.

265
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:39,440
And that itself inside
a magic lantern.

266
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,190
And eye witnesses
nearer the church

267
00:13:41,190 --> 00:13:43,150
found they could stand
next to the gable

268
00:13:43,150 --> 00:13:45,210
without casting shadows.

269
00:13:45,210 --> 00:13:48,110
Harris says that proves that
a mirror was used to throw

270
00:13:48,110 --> 00:13:51,450
the image down onto the
wall and the magic lantern

271
00:13:51,450 --> 00:13:54,210
would have been hidden
behind the church window.

272
00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:56,720
I think that today we've
solved the mystery of Knock

273
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,530
in the most efficient
way possible.

274
00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:00,930
With the right equipment
and the right time,

275
00:14:00,930 --> 00:14:04,100
one can create--
recreate the images

276
00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:08,380
that were seen by the people
at Knock all those years ago.

277
00:14:08,380 --> 00:14:09,325
And it can be done.

278
00:14:09,325 --> 00:14:14,000


279
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,990
Miraculous manifestations
of the Virgin Mary

280
00:14:16,990 --> 00:14:19,390
don't seem to be
confined to visions.

281
00:14:19,390 --> 00:14:22,730
Sometimes statues of
her are said to move

282
00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:25,210
in the most mysterious ways.

283
00:14:25,210 --> 00:14:28,170
In the south of Ireland,
a wayside shrine regularly

284
00:14:28,170 --> 00:14:30,870
attracts crowds of
awestruck pilgrims

285
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:34,885
amazed because in the evening
the figure seems to come alive.

286
00:14:34,885 --> 00:14:37,450


287
00:14:37,450 --> 00:14:39,400
Ballinspittle
stands on the coast

288
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,290
in the southwest of Ireland.

289
00:14:41,290 --> 00:14:44,525
For years this tiny hub of
the local farming community

290
00:14:44,525 --> 00:14:47,510
buzzed with nothing more
than the sound of tractors.

291
00:14:47,510 --> 00:14:50,840
But in 1985 all that
changed and the world

292
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,990
beat a path to Ballinspittle.

293
00:14:52,990 --> 00:14:55,310
The object of their
attention, the Virgin

294
00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:58,940
Mary in this hillside
grotto outside the village.

295
00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:01,220
By day, the people
of this community

296
00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:03,960
tend the grotto and
it's garden lovingly.

297
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,330
They believe the place
has a unique quality.

298
00:15:06,330 --> 00:15:09,102


299
00:15:09,102 --> 00:15:10,680
You can't put a
finger on it, like,

300
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,498
but there's something
special about the place.

301
00:15:12,498 --> 00:15:15,020


302
00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:16,560
It's just like
praying, really, when

303
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:17,595
you're working for our Lady.

304
00:15:17,595 --> 00:15:19,480
Want to make the place
beautiful for her

305
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,170
and she's been very good to us.

306
00:15:22,170 --> 00:15:26,585
Came here and visited us in
1985 and she's here with us

307
00:15:26,585 --> 00:15:30,430
all the time in a
very special way.

308
00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:34,040
That special way is the belief
held by hundreds of thousands

309
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:35,170
who've been here.

310
00:15:35,170 --> 00:15:38,370
That the statue
actually moves at night.

311
00:15:38,370 --> 00:15:40,600
In Cork city,
Sergeant John Murray

312
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,790
has seen many things in his
lifetime as a policeman,

313
00:15:43,790 --> 00:15:47,080
but none so strange as his
experience the first time

314
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,110
he went to the grotto.

315
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:51,440
As I faced the
grotto, the statue

316
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,470
appeared to actually leave the
grotto and move to my left.

317
00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:58,820
And I would say, and again
I have to-- it's something

318
00:15:58,820 --> 00:16:00,720
that I will never
forget because it's

319
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,960
deeply embedded in my mind.

320
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,350
It was such a definite movement
that it-- the people all gasped

321
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:11,490
as one and they stopped
in mid sentence and then

322
00:16:11,490 --> 00:16:13,000
when it stopped they
carried on again.

323
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,630
But it was a very
frightening, very

324
00:16:14,630 --> 00:16:17,940
definite and positive movement.

325
00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:20,880
On the following morning
I stopped at the grotto.

326
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,820
And I said, if there's
something wrong

327
00:16:22,820 --> 00:16:24,650
here I want to know about it.

328
00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:27,203
I expected to find that
somebody had interfered with it,

329
00:16:27,203 --> 00:16:29,470
that there was some sort of
trick wiring or something

330
00:16:29,470 --> 00:16:30,710
going on.

331
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:33,800
So I climbed the grotto
and I caught the statue

332
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,870
by the shoulders--
and it's a man

333
00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:37,550
sized or woman
sized statue-- and I

334
00:16:37,550 --> 00:16:40,080
shook-- tried to shake it.

335
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,740
And there was no indication,
no sign of any interference

336
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:45,280
or anything unusual.

337
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,230
It was plainly and simply
a statue set in a grotto.

338
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:53,240
And very, very much
permanently fixed.

339
00:16:53,240 --> 00:17:00,000


340
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,490
John Murray has been back
to the shrine many times

341
00:17:02,490 --> 00:17:06,540
since then, drawn there
by what he saw that night.

342
00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:08,540
[SINGING HYMNS]

343
00:17:08,540 --> 00:17:19,140


344
00:17:19,140 --> 00:17:21,869
First to observe
it back in 1985,

345
00:17:21,869 --> 00:17:24,319
was Cathy O'Mahoney
and her children.

346
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,550
They were out one
evening for a walk.

347
00:17:26,550 --> 00:17:28,830
As dusk fell, they
stopped at the grotto.

348
00:17:28,830 --> 00:17:31,820


349
00:17:31,820 --> 00:17:35,090
It kind of
shimmered in and out.

350
00:17:35,090 --> 00:17:38,845
It was as if she'd
waved that way

351
00:17:38,845 --> 00:17:41,800
and then just waved that way.

352
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,551
I saw it move back and
forth like that and from side

353
00:17:44,551 --> 00:17:49,170
to side.
The top half of the statue.

354
00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:52,270
You don't have to be Catholic
to see the statue move.

355
00:17:52,270 --> 00:17:56,670
And we don't think we're
special because we saw it move.

356
00:17:56,670 --> 00:17:58,860
I mean, thousands of
people have seen it move

357
00:17:58,860 --> 00:18:03,595
and our Lady speaks to everybody
in different ways, you know?

358
00:18:03,595 --> 00:18:06,780


359
00:18:06,780 --> 00:18:10,900
At Cork University, Jurek
Kirakowski was intrigued

360
00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:13,000
by the mystery on his doorstep.

361
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,760
He interviewed eyewitnesses
and went to Ballinspittle.

362
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,460
He, too, saw the
Virgin move but that

363
00:18:19,460 --> 00:18:23,470
guessed that physical factors
must lie behind the phenomenon.

364
00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:24,460
Firmly stuck down is it?

365
00:18:24,460 --> 00:18:25,314
Yep.

366
00:18:25,314 --> 00:18:26,170
Good.

367
00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:27,420
Dont' want it moving.

368
00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:29,690
In a laboratory with
a statue, some fairy

369
00:18:29,690 --> 00:18:32,500
lights, and some human
guinea pigs, he set to work.

370
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:35,930
---the lights now please.

371
00:18:35,930 --> 00:18:38,910
Natalie, I think
we'll start with you.

372
00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:42,931
Can you look at the
base of the statue?

373
00:18:42,931 --> 00:18:44,150
OK.
Now--

374
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:47,800
There are two essential
aspects to this phenomenon.

375
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,260
One is, most people
don't realize it,

376
00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:53,000
but they move a lot.

377
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,390
Especially if they haven't
got a visual reference.

378
00:18:56,390 --> 00:19:00,000
So if you're standing
in a dark field,

379
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,020
in a darkened
environment, you will

380
00:19:02,020 --> 00:19:05,280
sway more than if
you're standing

381
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,750
in a lightened environment.

382
00:19:06,750 --> 00:19:09,420
In daylight or in
a lightened room.

383
00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:16,150
The second item is that we
know that our eyes react very

384
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:20,020
quickly to bright
light and they react

385
00:19:20,020 --> 00:19:23,160
a lot more slowly to dim light.

386
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,620
If you put these
two together, what

387
00:19:25,620 --> 00:19:32,490
you see is these people standing
in a darkened environment,

388
00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:34,840
they're swaying around,
they most probably

389
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,440
don't realize they're swaying.

390
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,680
The image of the statue is
going backwards and forwards

391
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,610
on the back of their eye.

392
00:19:44,610 --> 00:19:47,625
The lightened portions of the
image-- the bright portions

393
00:19:47,625 --> 00:19:50,180
of the image-- actually
seemed to be going

394
00:19:50,180 --> 00:19:53,090
faster in the darker portions.

395
00:19:53,090 --> 00:19:55,980
Which gives rise to,
if someone is swaying

396
00:19:55,980 --> 00:19:59,420
backwards and forwards
like this, precisely

397
00:19:59,420 --> 00:20:01,070
a gentle swaying motion.

398
00:20:01,070 --> 00:20:02,420
Right.

399
00:20:02,420 --> 00:20:03,300
Do you want me to try.

400
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:05,791


401
00:20:05,791 --> 00:20:07,482
[INAUDIBLE]
How is that?

402
00:20:07,482 --> 00:20:10,960


403
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,255
Well, the halo is moving
again a little more.

404
00:20:13,255 --> 00:20:15,905
But the body moved a
small bit in comparison

405
00:20:15,905 --> 00:20:17,410
to the dark areas.

406
00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:18,680
Right.

407
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,360
Once you know that it's a
combination of the movement

408
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,270
and the light from
the statue, we

409
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:27,890
can simulate both
of these effects

410
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:33,380
in a laboratory to give
the Ballinspittle effect.

411
00:20:33,380 --> 00:20:35,660
Even at the height of
the war tearing apart

412
00:20:35,660 --> 00:20:37,850
the former Yugoslavia,
the cameras

413
00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:40,080
proved that pilgrims
would defy shells

414
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,080
and sniper bullets to visit
the shrine at Medjugorje.

415
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,480
They've congregated here
through bad times and good.

416
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,850
Indeed, in 1992, when
shells hit the church

417
00:20:50,850 --> 00:20:54,140
but failed to explode,
Medjugorje's reputation

418
00:20:54,140 --> 00:20:58,420
grew still further as
a place of miracles.

419
00:20:58,420 --> 00:21:02,580
In 1985 six young children
came down from this hill

420
00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:05,800
and announced that they'd seen
a vision of the Virgin Mary.

421
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,390
She appeared again to them
on consecutive Fridays

422
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:10,130
and the word spread.

423
00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:14,000
As at Fatima 60 years before,
a vision by a group of children

424
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,550
made the place a magnet
for the faithful.

425
00:21:16,550 --> 00:21:18,250
It was said that
during their visions

426
00:21:18,250 --> 00:21:20,490
the children were
truly entranced.

427
00:21:20,490 --> 00:21:22,850
They claimed to hear
nothing and to be totally

428
00:21:22,850 --> 00:21:26,300
unaware of their surroundings.

429
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:29,710
But in Montreal, Canada, a
professor of parapsychology

430
00:21:29,710 --> 00:21:31,830
decided to investigate.

431
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:35,410
Louis Belanger took a video
camera to record the children

432
00:21:35,410 --> 00:21:37,320
in their regular trance.

433
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,110
But he says what
he recorded calls

434
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:41,710
into question the state
of ecstasy the children

435
00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:44,380
experienced.

436
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:46,810
When they see the Vision
Mary, the visionaries

437
00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:49,240
claim that they are
totally disconnected

438
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,800
from the environment.

439
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,410
That they don't
hear other people,

440
00:21:53,410 --> 00:21:55,280
that they don't
see other people,

441
00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:00,110
that they are completely
concentrated on the apparition

442
00:22:00,110 --> 00:22:01,370
of the Virgin Mary.

443
00:22:01,370 --> 00:22:06,860


444
00:22:06,860 --> 00:22:08,990
Every week the Virgin
is said to appear

445
00:22:08,990 --> 00:22:12,110
to the young visionaries
at a Friday service.

446
00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:17,170
Belanger set up his camera
and sat back to watch.

447
00:22:17,170 --> 00:22:20,400
They made the sign
of the cross and they

448
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,100
begin the prayer Our Father.

449
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:26,930
And during that prayer,
suddenly, there is

450
00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:28,070
the beginning of the ecstasy.

451
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:33,780
They kneel down and they are in
contact with the Virgin Mary.

452
00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:35,770
If they're truly
in ecstasy, nothing

453
00:22:35,770 --> 00:22:37,550
should distract the children.

454
00:22:37,550 --> 00:22:40,410
But suddenly, to
Belanger's later amazement,

455
00:22:40,410 --> 00:22:42,730
an onlooker called
Jean-Louis jabs his hand

456
00:22:42,730 --> 00:22:44,310
towards Vicka on the right.

457
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:46,920


458
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,860
At the moment of filming
I did not see that.

459
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:53,780
Just afterwards I saw that there
was a commotion in the chapel.

460
00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:58,140
Everybody was disturbed
because Vicka had reacted.

461
00:22:58,140 --> 00:23:04,180
Jean-Louis made a threat gesture
against the eyes of Victsa--

462
00:23:04,180 --> 00:23:06,440
towards the eyes of Vicka.

463
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,750
And she reacted.

464
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:15,210
And it was for Jean-Louis
an important disappointment.

465
00:23:15,210 --> 00:23:27,700


466
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:31,110
Still frames from Belanger's
video at the moment of the hand

467
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:33,490
lunging at Vicka,
show her clearly

468
00:23:33,490 --> 00:23:36,970
recoiling from the
jabbing fingers.

469
00:23:36,970 --> 00:23:40,550
Then the fingers of
Jean-Louis are going back.

470
00:23:40,550 --> 00:23:42,590
Still no reaction from Vicka.

471
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:45,330
Slight reaction,
closing of her eyes.

472
00:23:45,330 --> 00:23:47,900
And then on the
next picture you'll

473
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:54,820
have the spectacular movement
of the face of Vicka.

474
00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:57,863
She is reacting and going back.

475
00:23:57,863 --> 00:24:01,980
After the ecstasy, I had
forgotten to stop the camera

476
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:07,730
and suddenly Vicka comes
in with somebody else.

477
00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:10,080
She wanted to explain
why she'd moved.

478
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,660
In her trance she'd been
trying to prevent the Virgin

479
00:24:12,660 --> 00:24:15,430
from dropping the infant Jesus.

480
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:20,390
She said, when I arrived in the
chapel and everything was OK.

481
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:23,040
When the ecstasy
again I saw nobody

482
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,340
and I heard nobody
except the Virgin Mary.

483
00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:32,880
And the Virgin Mary had the
infant Jesus in her arms.

484
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,820
And suddenly I thought, said
Vicka, that the infant Jesus

485
00:24:36,820 --> 00:24:38,930
would fall on the floor.

486
00:24:38,930 --> 00:24:44,300
So to impeach that, I made
a gesture to impeach infant

487
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:46,520
Jesus to fall on the floor.

488
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,320
And she thought that
it would explain

489
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:57,440
the reaction that she had
against the threat gesture

490
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,495
made by Jean-Louis.

491
00:24:58,495 --> 00:25:04,440


492
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,860
But in the end,
does it really matter

493
00:25:06,860 --> 00:25:10,360
whether visions of the Virgin
Mary are genuine or not?

494
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,040
Because to millions they
bring comfort and hope

495
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,110
in an otherwise bleak
and painful world.

496
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:59,767