1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,560 Royal Society. Royal Society. OK. Thank you. 2 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:09,760 Anything in particular you're doing there tonight, or is it just...? 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,200 I've got to attend some presentation of, you know the scientist, Stephen Hawking? 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,440 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know who he is. 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,200 Well, I'm doing this programme about equations 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,040 and he deals with the enormity of the universe... OK. ..and his tool 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,080 for scientific research is the equation, the mathematical equation. 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,600 Oh, OK. 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,720 My name's Matthew Collings. 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:37,960 I'm an artist and art critic. 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,400 That's what I know and understand, 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,000 but I'm about to enter an alien world. 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,080 To me, equations have always been incomprehensible hieroglyphs. 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,080 What do they describe? 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,960 Are they just a mathematical game? 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:06,200 In this film, I'll learn about some of the most important equations in science. 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,560 They're actually masterpieces that explain the universe we live in. 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,880 APPLAUSE 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,640 I would like to thank Dame Stephanie Shirley 20 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,400 for commissioning this magnificent portrait. 21 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,720 It will be an honour to have my picture 22 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:39,360 join the Royal Society's collection of the greats of British science. 23 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,120 I only wish I could remain looking as good as this picture! 24 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,160 LAUGHTER 25 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,400 With art, I think beauty is very important 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,680 and I'm always trying to define it, and work out what it is. 27 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,760 Now I want to apply that knowledge to mathematics and maybe understand why scientists talk 28 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,800 of "beautiful" equations. 29 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,360 Hello, Stephen. I'm Matthew Collings. 30 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,760 I'm doing this BBC programme about equations and beauty. 31 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,360 Hello. That sounds an interesting idea. 32 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,560 Thank you. I look forward to speaking... 33 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,440 I'm glad the most respected living scientist thinks I'm on to something. 34 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,440 It's a busy night for Stephen, so I've arranged to meet him again in a week's time. 35 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,840 Now, you yourself must work with equations? 36 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,160 I do, I do, I'm... 37 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,960 I mean, technically I'm an astrophysicist. 38 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,240 I'm really what we call a theorist. What I like to do is noodle around 39 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,000 with equations and work things out and make predictions. 40 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,680 Equations is what I do every day. I mean, my colleagues who do astronomy 41 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,240 like to show pretty pictures and beautiful pictures of the cosmos. 42 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,640 I like to show equations. Very much so. 43 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:02,880 Come and visit me in Oxford and I will tell you all about this. We can't do this here, 44 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,400 but in Oxford we've got blackboards and I can explain the beauty of equations. 45 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,160 Fantastic, thank you very much, Pedro. 46 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,960 I've come to the University of Oxford to take up Pedro's invitation. 47 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,040 And he's going to tell me about the most famous equation of all, 48 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,640 the one that everyone's heard of, 49 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:35,360 E = mc2. 50 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,640 This equation conjures up a whole load of thoughts in my mind, 51 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,640 but the main ones are that it's got something to do with the atomic bomb 52 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,040 and of course, it's by Einstein. 53 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,680 But there's cultural knowledge and then there's maths. 54 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,920 I don't know anything at all about how E = mc2 works. 55 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,560 When Einstein first published the equation in 1905, 56 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,280 it started a scientific revolution. 57 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,440 Hey! Hello. Hello, Pedro. 58 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,480 How are you? Very nice to see you again. 59 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,880 Thanks for coming. Well, it's a pleasure. 60 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,840 Thank you very much for having me. Now you've got this tall order 61 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:29,840 to explain to me so that I can totally understand it. 62 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:33,680 We'll give it a go, we'll give it a go. Let me just clear this up. 63 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,400 'Uh-oh, what am I doing? 64 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,440 'Pedro lives and breathes abstract numbers. 65 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,560 'I'm an art guy who left school when I was 13.' 66 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,280 So what maths do you know? Well, I must confess that I don't know any maths, any geometry, 67 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:51,640 or any algebra or anything in that realm of experience. 68 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,040 I'm completely ignorant about all that. OK. 69 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,280 I know about art and that's about it. 70 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:00,040 Ok, that's a good starting point. Let me get a pen. 71 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,640 It seems a very bad starting point to me, but...! 72 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,880 So, you know nothing about what an equation is? 73 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,440 Only, uh, I think it's a sort of... 74 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,320 code or some kind of metaphor for the natural world. 75 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,600 It's the natural world reduced to a formula. 76 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,200 That's pretty good. Let's start with a really famous one. 77 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,640 Have you ever seen this equation? 78 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:28,040 Well, I've certainly heard of it. I know it's E = mc2. Very good. 79 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,080 E... 80 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,840 E stands for energy. Do you know what energy is? 81 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:34,240 It's a difficult question, so... 82 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,440 You're having energy as you talk to me. Yes. 83 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,280 A certain amount of energy is keeping me alive so I don't die and decay. 84 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:43,240 Very good, very good. 85 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,840 That's the limit. That's what I think energy is. 86 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:49,920 Energy, I mean, energy is kind of a funny thing to try to define. 87 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,480 The best way I can think of it is, it's the capacity to do things. 88 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,240 It's the capacity to lift something up, to heat something up. All right. 89 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,600 Then you've got this thing here. Do you know what the m stands for? 90 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,280 I think it stands for mass. 91 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:08,520 Exactly. Mass, and mass is basically the amount of stuff in a thing. 92 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:14,000 So when you pick up a book, it's the amount of stuff that that book is made of. Mass is kind of interesting. 93 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,760 For example, suppose you've got a nail and you weigh it, all right? 94 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,440 And then you leave it out in the air and you weigh it three weeks later, it will have rusted and so... 95 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,720 Its mass has changed. More particle things. It's gone up, exactly. 96 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:33,760 Stuff has stuck onto it, there have been chemical reactions so the mass of it really does have to do 97 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:38,760 with what it's made of and how it changes. And then we've got this thing over here, the c. 98 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,600 Do you know what the c is? No. There's no reason for you to know, it's the speed of light. OK? 99 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:49,080 C is incredibly important because c is the speed at which light rays propagate through empty space. 100 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,840 I know what squared is, that means a thing multiplied by itself. Exactly. 101 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:57,360 So this is a kind of fascinating statement. 102 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,360 This is saying suppose you have some mass, right, 103 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,480 it's possible to convert that mass into a certain amount of energy. 104 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,800 I can see that E = mc2, like all equations, 105 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,080 is about balancing two sides. 106 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,000 That's what the equals sign is all about. 107 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,040 So this equation allows us to calculate how much energy 108 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,360 is contained in any given mass. 109 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,440 It's a surprise to me that it applies to everything. 110 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,320 Toothpaste, a book, a nail, or uranium for that matter. 111 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:36,000 This equation is universal. And since "c2" is such a big number 112 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,600 a tiny lump of matter contains an enormous amount of energy. 113 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,640 What this equation doesn't tell you is how to unlock that energy. 114 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,040 The most dramatic proof that the equation was true 115 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,400 came 40 years after Einstein first worked it out, 116 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,040 when the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. 117 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,160 Pedro walked me through the chilling sums. 118 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,320 You have a mass which is something like half a gramme, 119 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,200 I write it as a kilogramme. 120 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,400 You need the speed of light and the speed of light looks like this - 121 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,440 it's about 300 million metres per second. OK. 122 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,960 OK. And we can work out how much energy there is, OK? 123 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,000 All we've got to do we say that energy is going to be that mass 124 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,200 times the speed of light, squared, and what you get is this. 125 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,680 Joules. This is the unit of energy. 126 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:43,560 So you get a phenomenal amount of energy. 127 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:48,240 Now, if I told you this was something like 15 kilotons of TNT from, 128 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,200 something the size of a pill, 129 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,640 giving enough energy... Producing an explosion of 15 kilotons... 130 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,320 Which is equivalent tons of TNT. 131 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,000 I want to throw you, I don't know if this is a stupid question and you might have nothing to say about it, 132 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,960 but supposing the sign for squared was changed to a three. 133 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,440 Would that just be nonsense, or...? It would be nonsense, 134 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,960 and the reason it would be nonsense is because we've tested it. 135 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,960 We've gone into a lab and tested this relationship. We've weighed something, done something to it, 136 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,320 weighed it again, worked out the amount of energy that came out and it was on balance 137 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,800 so the left side was balanced with the right side. 138 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,480 I'm impressed that E = mc2 was created before it was shown to be true. 139 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,320 The equation was a prophecy. 140 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:54,080 The five symbols explain the link between energy and all matter across the cosmos. 141 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,400 This universality is part of its power. 142 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:06,360 Einstein once claimed "the only physical theories that we're willing to accept are the beautiful ones". 143 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,920 But what do scientists mean by "beautiful"? 144 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,440 They talk about equations being testable, being universal. 145 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,000 Is that what they think beauty is? 146 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,920 I'm going to take you to the Rhodes building... 147 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:32,160 ..because Einstein actually came here in, I think 1933, 148 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:37,720 to give the Herbert Spencer lecture. And it's an interesting lecture because it's a lecture 149 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,240 where he basically discusses his philosophy. 150 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,880 Right. Why he does science the way he does, and his craft, what he does as a theoretical physicist. 151 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,840 And he basically said two things. 152 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,560 The first is that the endgame of what he does is experience. 153 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,520 It's experiment. It's the natural world. 154 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:01,200 It's not theory for theory's sake. It's always relating to reality. 155 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,000 Exactly. 156 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,560 But the bulk of what he says is that what guides him 157 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:08,480 is mathematical beauty, or mathematical simplicity. 158 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,320 That's what guides his research. He says, "It is essential from our point of view that we can arrive 159 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,400 "at these constructions and the laws relating them, one with another, by adhering 160 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,520 "to the principle of searching for the mathematically simplest concepts and their connections". 161 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,720 So go for simplicity, go for the simplest relationships which are mathematically true, 162 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,680 and that underpins the way that he thought about what he did. 163 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:36,000 So he was telling people this in a lecture that was really about the philosophy of what he did. Exactly. 164 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,320 What his ultimate aims were, and what the use of what he did was to the world. 165 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:46,080 It's a practical philosophy, it's what he actually did on an everyday basis. That's how he worked. 166 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,640 So it gives us an insight into... 167 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,080 what science at that level is about. 168 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,800 Exactly. Yeah. 169 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:09,680 Einstein believed that the laws which govern the universe would have an elegant simplicity 170 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,840 and this would be shared by their equations. 171 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,560 I paint abstracts in collaboration with my partner, Emma. 172 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:23,160 It occurs to me that when we intuitively put shapes and colours together in a visual order, 173 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,720 we too, like people who come up with equations, 174 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,400 try to arrive at a convincing metaphor for nature. 175 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,880 For us, art tells you something important about the world. 176 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,120 This is a coloured engraving of Isaac Newton by William Blake. 177 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,720 It shows Newton studying a tiny corner of the world 178 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,280 with a pair of dividers. 179 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,960 Blake despised Newton, who he felt reduced 180 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,680 the magnificence of existence to cold and mechanistic equations. 181 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,560 So today I'm coming to a place... 182 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,560 ..where I'm actually going to find out a bit more about what Newton actually did. 183 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,320 This is Newton's house, where he developed his ideas on gravity. 184 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,920 I'm going back to the 17th century because it's when scientists 185 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,440 first used equations to try to explain the natural order. 186 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,680 Hello. Hello, welcome to Woolsthorpe. 187 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:54,640 I'm Margaret Winn, the house steward. Pleased to meet you. 188 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,480 Likewise. Hi, I'm Ruth. 189 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,240 I'm professor of theoretical physics from Durham. 190 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,080 Thank you both very much for seeing me. 191 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,760 It's nice to meet you. Have you been here before? 192 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,680 No, never. This is my first time. 193 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:12,240 Right, well, this is the house Newton was born in, Christmas Day, 1642. 194 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:17,440 Yes. Ruth, the only thing I know about Newton is an image of him observing apples falling off a tree. 195 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,880 Falling from a tree! And he suddenly works out that that means gravity. 196 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,040 Well, we call him the father of modern science, and that is not an understatement. 197 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,520 We can date our modern way 198 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:34,080 of doing physics or science as trying to write down equations 199 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:35,680 as coming from Newton. 200 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,680 That's very clear, that equations come from beginning of equations. 201 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,920 Yes, I think equations as a method, as a means of encapsulating, 202 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,800 of modelling, of saying what physics is and what the world around us is. 203 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,080 Why do you think the image of the apples falling 204 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,760 is needed in the mythology of Newton? 205 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,320 I think it's the link more than anything else. If we take an apple 206 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,120 and just look at what happens 207 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,800 as it goes up and down under gravity... 208 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,280 Gravity is something that I think we often take for granted. 209 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:35,200 And the apple falling, he realised that the same thing that made that apple fall down to the ground was 210 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:41,840 the same thing that kept the Moon going round the Earth, or indeed the Earth going round the Sun. 211 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:47,680 Begs a lot of questions. How does he go from that to realising something about that? A lot of hard work! 212 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,160 Is it assuming that perhaps there's some kind of force 213 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,640 connected to the moon that's similar to the thing that makes...? 214 00:15:54,640 --> 00:16:00,840 That's right, so as soon as you start thinking about planetary bodies or things moving round, 215 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:07,760 round other objects... I think people at the time, they would have felt, "ell that's a mystery of God, 216 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,240 "and we're not supposed to understand that," but by using this apple 217 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,680 as this sort of metaphor for the moon or the sun, 218 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:22,680 Newton managed to say, "No, actually man can start plumbing those mysteries." 219 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:28,240 I'm absorbing everything you've told and as I'm starting to freeze a bit, maybe we could go in the house! 220 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,640 Shall we go up to the house? You talked about he didn't want 221 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,680 his theories to be thought of as the final word... 222 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:46,840 Newton realised that mathematics could provide a precise and universal language to describe 223 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,160 things as diverse as the fall of an apple and the orbit of the moon. 224 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,640 He put his ideas in a revolutionary book, Principia Mathematica. 225 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,400 I can barely tear my eyes away from this! 226 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,080 THEY ALL LAUGH 227 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,840 That is our very prized possession, 228 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,400 a third edition copy of the Principia Mathematica. 229 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:22,000 If we turn to the relevant page, I'm going to leave you to our book. Thank you very much. Wonderful. 230 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,440 The first things that we notice here is not a single equation, 231 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,920 having talked about Newton as being the father of modern science. 232 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,680 The other thing is of course it's in Latin, which the language of... 233 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,120 It's hard enough...! 234 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:39,240 The universal language at the time. Propositio eight, theorema eight. 235 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:44,240 Essentially, he is giving us his equation for gravity in words. 236 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:50,560 So he starts off, "Si globorum duroum in se mutuo gravitantium materia undique in regionibus..." 237 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:59,680 Newton's written version eventually formed the basis for the equation for gravity. 238 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,400 So I want Ruth to unpick the different elements, 239 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,640 a mathematical version of the words. 240 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,880 I've noticed you've got a book, so we could try and translate 241 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,160 what he said into one of these beautiful equations. 242 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,200 Absolutely, find a blank page. 243 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,640 Anywhere will do. Right. 244 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,480 So we write both of these objects as M1 and M2. 245 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,200 So these are just the masses. But then Newton talked about 246 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,560 the force between the two spheres, 247 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,640 these two bodies, is inversely proportional, 248 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,640 which means we divide, to the distance squared. 249 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,080 The two bodies or spheres could be any size - 250 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,920 the Earth, the Moon, or even an apple. 251 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,360 And this is G, for gravity. 252 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:48,680 It's actually called Newton's constant. 253 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,160 You've written out an equation for me there. Yes. 254 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,240 And earlier you threw an apple in the air and it fell to the ground. 255 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,160 Can you give me some numbers... 256 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,840 Certainly. ..that will show me what the apple is doing? 257 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,880 Let's talk about the apple. 258 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,800 OK, so one of the Ms is an apple? An apple. What does an apple weigh? 259 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:15,000 Half... ? You get a pound of apples so I guess that's about four apples, so that's a quarter of a pound. 260 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,280 We work in kilograms! SHE LAUGHS 261 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,000 Let's just say it's 200 grams. 262 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,560 But is the other M the Earth? You don't need explaining, do you? You know this already. I'm guessing! 263 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,880 But I don't know how much the Earth weighs, I very rarely buy one from the grocer! 264 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,800 Well, I can give you a rough idea. 265 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,600 Five times ten to the 24 kilograms. Got it. 266 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,560 So it's ten to the power of 24. 267 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,840 Which is a trillion trillion. 268 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,560 OK, good. 269 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:51,360 Now the radius of the Earth is 6,000 kilometres. 270 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,320 We've got a 200 gram apple, 271 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,200 several trillion kilograms Earth 272 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,400 and radius of Earth 6,000. 273 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:05,280 Now, what I'm going to do is cancel all those off to make it easy. 274 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,520 Then what I end up with is a simple ten on the top 275 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,600 times the 0.2 of the apple. 276 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,080 So what this tells me is the force the apple feels is its mass 277 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,640 times this ten and this is... 278 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,040 Mass times ten. Ten is... This is the sort of, 279 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,240 how fast gravity is going to cause the apple to start to fall. 280 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,240 So the force on the apple here is simply two. 281 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,040 And that unit is called the Newton. 282 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,280 Ah! N for Newton. 283 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,840 N for Newton. Fantastic. 284 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,800 The number of Newtons measures the force of gravity acting on the apple. 285 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,400 It's a complicated equation, 286 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,840 but I'm beginning to understand the key parts. 287 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,440 The force depends on the mass of the two objects 288 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,840 and the distance between them. 289 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,080 The bigger the objects, the bigger the force. 290 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,760 And the further apart they are, the weaker the force. 291 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,160 The two masses, M1 and M2, could be anything. 292 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,080 The earth and the apple. Or the earth and the moon. 293 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,320 Or the earth and the sun. 294 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,200 Ruth told me Newton's equation allowed us to understand why 295 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,000 the moons and planets move around the solar system. 296 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,960 His equation seemed to make sense of, well, the universe. 297 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,920 So the equation itself, F = G x M1 x M2/R squared, 298 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,960 that's Newton's equation of gravity, but how we use it, 299 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,400 this is a sort of process, you know doing science, 300 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,720 of calculating things, of making predictions. 301 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,160 You've now showed me how we use that equation. 302 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,200 How we would use it, yes. 303 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,520 This is our paint, how we paint the world. 304 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,240 We paint it in equations. 305 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,840 In fact we use that a lot, we say, "I'm painting," 306 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,320 you know, we tend to use this word, "painting". 307 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,400 If you, if you can use that metaphor of paint and colours etcetera 308 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,240 is there a place also for beauty in this world of calculating things? 309 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,960 I don't expect everyone to find this beautiful, 310 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,720 but it certainly is for us and for me. 311 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,200 Great! 312 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,640 'A few decades after Newton came up with his law, it was used 313 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,200 'to successfully predict the return of a comet, Halley's comet. 314 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,360 'His law of gravity had been confirmed.' 315 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,640 'With his equation, Newton had transformed 316 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,800 'the way mathematics modelled the world, 317 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,040 'and his work went unchallenged for over 200 years.' 318 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,360 'Everything changed at the beginning of the 20th century 319 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,120 'with the arrival of Einstein and his Theory of Relativity. 320 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:27,120 'In that same decade, something else entered, and that was modern art. 321 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,800 'In the world of art many believe that Picasso was involved 322 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,640 'in the same revolution as Einstein.' 323 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,680 Weirdly, the one place in which I had heard about relativity 324 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,680 before embarking on this programme was art school when I was young. 325 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,320 As art students we all had to absorb the idea that 326 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,400 relativity had something to do with cubist paintings. 327 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:07,360 I'm about to look at a cubist painting by Picasso from about 1909-1910. 328 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:09,240 It's of a woman in an armchair. 329 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:17,120 I think cubism was really seen as something quite terrifying and shocking when it first came out. 330 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,320 It's not like a Renaissance painting 331 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,320 where you feel you're looking through a kind of window onto the world. 332 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,120 With cubism the artist is deliberately confusing you 333 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,120 as to where thing are, and indeed what things are. 334 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:41,080 So that the space in the room 335 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,120 seems to be eating into the side of the woman. 336 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:48,880 And the textures of the room seem to be no different from the textures 337 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:54,960 of the woman. So there's all this moving around of objects and space 338 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,280 in a way that is deliberately confusing if you were thinking, 339 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,560 "Well, where is the thing that looks like ordinary reality?" 340 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,560 'I think it's right to say that cubism was a new kind of beauty 341 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,120 'that looked a bit like science. 342 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:17,480 'But I'm not convinced that cubism is science. 343 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,480 'I've arranged to meet historian of science, Arthur Miller, 344 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,000 'who's going to attempt to change my mind.' 345 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,920 I've got to tell you, Arthur, that at art school, and subsequently, 346 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:35,440 I felt oppressed by the idea that I had to think of a connection between 347 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,920 Einstein and relativity and cubism. 348 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,320 Einstein and relativity and Picasso. 349 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,280 But there is one in a sense that I'll say they both worked on 350 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,920 the same problem, the nature of space and time. 351 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,360 OK. The connection is that time and space are important to them both. 352 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,680 That's right. 353 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:59,680 Where I find the proposal difficult is that, just because 354 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,040 he's doing something with time and space that he's therefore 355 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:09,000 something like Einstein, or that cubism is something like science. 356 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,760 Cubism was very much of a scientific research programme, as I've said. 357 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,080 It had, you know, an explicit intent to reduce forms 358 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,160 to geometry. Why is that? Picasso... 359 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,640 Why is that scientific and not artistic? 360 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,080 I mean, medieval artists reduced forms to geometry, 361 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,440 and African artists reduce it to geometry, archaic art reduces it to geometry. 362 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:35,680 Well, that's because Picasso had in mind scientific texts as a way to do it. 363 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,560 For example, we know that he looked at a text written by a mathematician 364 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,480 and the text discussed how you represent in four dimensions 365 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,160 complex polyhedra and Picasso took a look at these. 366 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,760 Of course, he didn't know what the equations meant, 367 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,040 but when the author of the books specialised the equations 368 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,120 of the two dimensions and then could generate illustrations, 369 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,120 Picasso was interested in the illustrations. 370 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:04,280 It's correct to call Picasso a revolutionary artist, 371 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,640 it's not hyperbole, but for me, I don't know enough about Einstein 372 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,480 to see the way in which Einstein is a revolutionary too, or how 373 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,280 Einstein's ideas and Picasso's are the same level of revolution 374 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,080 and also going in the same direction. 375 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,560 Well, Einstein was a revolutionary scientist because what he did 376 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,480 was to go take the next step beyond Newton. 377 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,920 Newtonian science is based on our sense perceptions that all time, 378 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,080 your time is the same as my time. 379 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,720 What Einstein was able to do was to raise himself to 380 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,440 heights of abstraction so he could glimpse a world beyond appearances. 381 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,040 The real objective world out there where there is scientific truth. 382 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,560 I still think the connections between Einstein and Picasso are 383 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,520 more superficial than substantial, 384 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,120 but I am very interested to hear more about Einstein. 385 00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,000 Arthur will attempt to explain to me 386 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,760 one of the key equations of the Special Theory of Relativity. 387 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,320 When Einstein came up with this equation, 388 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,080 he wasn't even officially a scientist. 389 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,360 The days when he wrote the relativity theory, he worked as a patent clerk 390 00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,040 in the Swiss federal patent office in Bern. 391 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,120 In fact he worked there from 1902 to 1909. 392 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,160 He was also a conscientious daydreamer. 393 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,880 And in his dreams and visions he soared over the landscape 394 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,960 of physics and realised what the fundamental problem was. 395 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,080 The nature of space and time. 396 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,240 People were beginning to think that maybe there was something wrong with 397 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,120 classical, intuitive notions of space and time, 398 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,600 but they couldn't put their finger on it. 399 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,240 What they especially wanted to do was to leave alone the notion of time. 400 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,920 Why was time sacrosanct, because it was obvious what it was, 401 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,040 it didn't need any more inquiry, or they were afraid that they couldn't find out anything more? 402 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,320 It seemed that your time is the same as my time. 403 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,680 No matter how fast we're moving with respect to one another. 404 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,440 There's no mystery there. We know what time is. 405 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,120 That's right. It's like Superman said, "Leave time alone." 406 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,480 Don't mess with time. Don't mess with time, yeah. 407 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,520 OK I've got a book, if you've got a pen? 408 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,920 Absolutely, let me show you one of the spectacular results 409 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,600 of relativity theory. 410 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,800 Let's do a little thought experiment. 411 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:24,640 Suppose here is Matt one standing on a train platform 412 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,320 and here is Matt two, just call him Matt, standing on a train 413 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,240 and he's moving along with some velocity, call it V, 414 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,720 relative to the Matt standing on the platform. 415 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,960 The Matt on the moving train is wearing a wristwatch 416 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,240 and his time, call it t prime, 417 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,680 and call the times of all the clocks on the platform t. 418 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,280 And what we want to do is to compare the time 419 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:55,520 on Matt's wristwatch with clocks that remain at rest on the platform. 420 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,280 They all read the same time. 421 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,360 I'm going to assume that, even though the clocks are at rest 422 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,040 and my clock is moving that they're all the same, 423 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,440 because clocks always tell the same time, assuming they're all synchronised. 424 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,640 One would think so, yeah. Now let's call the Matt on the train... 425 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,480 But you're going to show me that they don't. 426 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,000 I'm going show you that they don't, convince you that they don't. 427 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,040 t prime and t. 428 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,840 Now it turns out Matt on the train's time t prime is 429 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,920 equal to t times the square root of 1 - V squared over C squared. 430 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,680 So the time here is equal to something complicated. 431 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,640 It's not just the same as that time. 432 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,760 No, it's not the same as that time. Your time is not the same as my time. 433 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,640 These two times are different... 434 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,680 'If I understand the equation correctly, it says something unbelievable - 435 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,520 'that time runs at different rates depending on how fast you're moving. 436 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,040 'Take a train zooming through a station. 437 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,840 'This equation predicts that a clock on the train, reading time t-, 438 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,400 'would run slower than clocks reading time t 439 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,000 'on the station platform. 440 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,160 'I've never noticed it and here's why. 441 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,080 'This bit of the equation is what makes the two clock times different, 442 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,800 'but it only has a significant effect if the velocity, V, 443 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,840 'of the train is very fast, close to the speed of light. 444 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,840 'If the train could reach the speed of light, you get 1 - 1, 445 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,840 'which equals zero. 446 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,600 'And then t- equals zero. 447 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,320 'Relative to the platform, time on the train completely stops. 448 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,600 'This stretching of time seems impossible 449 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,360 'but according to Arthur it's been proven by practical experiment.' 450 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,800 Now that's really something. That's wild. 451 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,720 And he realised that's because time is a relative quantity. 452 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,880 Just as I discussed with you. 453 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,600 Your time is only the same as my time if we're standing still 454 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,000 next to each other, but if you go away and come back, your clock, 455 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,240 although it'd be very difficult to perceive it, 456 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,080 will read a slower time than mine. 457 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,640 Well, I'm taking in a lot of what you're saying so that 458 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,560 I'm far more informed than I was before you spoke. Good. 459 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,240 But the thing that's really big for me is this idea 460 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,680 of the physical nature of time and that seems a marvellous idea. 461 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,960 Oh, it turns out that there's not space and time. There's space-time. 462 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,200 Right, they are a single entity. Is entity the right word? 463 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,480 Time and space are connected by the velocity of light. 464 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,760 'That was definitely the hardest equation so far, 465 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,960 'not just the maths but because of the ideas it contained. 466 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,600 'You might be worrying about time on a tube train, 467 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,080 'but you wouldn't think time was actually changing shape.' 468 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,200 'Einstein worked out that time and space are inextricably linked 469 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,080 'through the speed of light.' 470 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,120 'It was a thought that it was simply impossible to have before, 471 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,640 'reality had changed, 472 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,320 'and Einstein did it with equations.' 473 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,480 'I'm beginning to get a crush on science.' 474 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,160 'Before, I literally didn't know what an equation was. 475 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:21,040 'Now, in some ways I know the basics of what an equation is, 476 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,080 'but I also know the implications of what an equation is, 477 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,840 'so there's a sort of excitement 478 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,000 'about the philosophy of an equation,' 479 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,960 or the use of an equation in some kind of profound way 480 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,640 as opposed to something like a railway timetable that tells you very detailed information. 481 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,960 You know the process of learning is a mixture of pain and pleasure. 482 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,520 It's quite hard to dislodge the pattern of the world that 483 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,200 you've already got in place, and bring in a whole load of new stuff. 484 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,520 You can appreciate it on mythological levels. 485 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,000 Someone's telling you the myth of equations, or the myth of science, 486 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,400 or the myth of Newton, or the myth of Einstein, 487 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,720 but they all do sound like myths to me. 488 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,560 But as the days go by they acquire more and more reality as each 489 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,560 scientist adds to the stories that the other scientists have told me. 490 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:25,360 There's one scientist who stands out in the story of equations, 491 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,160 because he took the idea of beauty in science further than anyone else. 492 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,920 His name is Paul Dirac. 493 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,280 He too revolutionised our view of the universe, 494 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,280 yet virtually no-one outside scientific circles has heard of Dirac. 495 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:49,120 So, I've arranged to meet the biographer of this mysterious genius. 496 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,360 This is a particularly favourite part of Cambridge for Paul Dirac. 497 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,240 Dirac was the greatest English theoretician since 498 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:03,000 Isaac Newton and that's how... That's his reputation in 1927, 499 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,200 when he was looking for what became his greatest achievement - 500 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,240 his equation. 501 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:10,760 Why is he... Being so great, 502 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:16,320 why is he totally unknown to the general public? 503 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,160 He actually wanted anonymity, he really had no interest at all in celebrity. 504 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,400 He simply wanted to get on with his work and be unknown 505 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,160 to the outside world. 506 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,640 I love the idea that for Dirac, beauty is important. 507 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,200 Is there a sense in which it is more important for him 508 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,600 than I've been hearing so far about other scientists? 509 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,960 Oh, yeah, Dirac was the first scientist actually to elevate this idea of beauty to a principle. 510 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,600 He called it the principle of mathematical beauty. 511 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,360 And what he meant by that was that as we advance in fundamental, 512 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,680 theoretical physics, the theories as they get closer and closer to nature, 513 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,520 become more and more beautiful. 514 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,720 So, for him, it was a method of sifting out theories, 515 00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,960 right from wrong because if it wasn't beautiful, if it was ugly 516 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,000 in his opinion, it just wouldn't cut pass muster with nature. 517 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:16,880 So for him, a theory had to be beautiful for it to stand a chance of describing nature. 518 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,920 Incredible. 519 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,080 Here's a scientist who insisted science went through a "filter" 520 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,920 of beauty. And by pursuing beauty, you end up with truth. 521 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,240 It's an idea that's often used metaphorically, but Dirac meant it literally. 522 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:36,720 This is the Bridge of Sighs, which he walked across as a Fellow. 523 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:43,480 He walked back to his rooms here and this is where he did his great work on the Dirac Equation. 524 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,880 In fact, he was staying in a room just here. 525 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,800 That's where he was working in the late months of 1927 526 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,480 on what came to be known as the Dirac Equation, one of the greatest achievements in modern science. 527 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,680 Here we are, Room A4. Newcourt. Where Dirac discovered his great equation. 528 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,200 Completely free of distraction. The only noise you get is a bit of noise from the punters outside. 529 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,080 Apart from that, no radio, just nothing. 530 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:29,000 Dirac was not given to luxury. In late 1927, all he did, apparently, was to work on that equation. 531 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:34,280 Tell me about that equation, what was he trying to accomplish with it? 532 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,640 Well, what he was trying to do was come up with an equation for the electron, 533 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:44,160 the first material fundamental particle to have been discovered. 534 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:49,880 What does that mean, "the first fundamental material particle"? OK. 535 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,720 A fundamental particle has no constituents. 536 00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,320 It's a completely basic particle, you can't subdivide it. 537 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,680 The point of the tiny, tiny thing, this electron, 538 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,440 is that nothing else is more basic than it. That's right. 539 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,600 So you had a chance of giving a fundamental description in nature. 540 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,120 I've got a notebook in my bag. 541 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,040 If I give that to you and you find a blank page... Yep. 542 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,680 And I then give you my pen, could you write out for me 543 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,680 the equation... I will. 544 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,560 ..that Dirac came up with. I will. 545 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,640 It's called the Dirac Equation? 546 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,440 That's right. This is the Dirac Equation. 547 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:35,080 And this equation applies to every electron that's ever existed, or ever will exist, 548 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,560 in the entire universe, so this is the ultimate compact equation that 549 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,400 has this universal significance. 550 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,640 This is a miracle, one of the miracles of 20th century science. 551 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,640 You've shown me the miracle, now tell me what it is. 552 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,360 I see something like "I followed by squiggle, followed by P followed by 553 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,320 "a squiggle, followed by equals, followed by m, 554 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,440 "followed by squiggle." 555 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,280 OK, you say, "I, gamma, P, psi = M psi". 556 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,080 OK, so it's like E = M C squared, only you say these new things that 557 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,240 he thought up himself, a bit like the Lord of the Rings language. 558 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,920 That's right. And what is the most important symbol there? 559 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,160 Right, OK. 560 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,440 This is called a spinner, all right? 561 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,280 This is a thing that encodes the information about the behaviour of the electron. 562 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:30,640 So, you tell the equation what situation the electron is in and out 563 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,480 of the equation comes the prediction for how the electron will behave. 564 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,880 What's the thing in the ordinary world that is the closest that 565 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,120 I could visualise, to tell me what a spinner really means? There is none. 566 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,840 OK, so I've got to accept that. Exactly. Fine. 567 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,320 This was a complete Dirac concoction, right? 568 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,280 So spinners didn't exist before him? 569 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,680 No, they didn't. Do you have to learn his new language before you can say that equation? Yeah. 570 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,360 Seriously, people for six months a year were struggling. Brilliant, 571 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,720 world-leading physicists had no clue about what this equation meant. 572 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:06,920 This is why he was so far ahead of his time, they were having to say, 573 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,680 "What the hell do these symbols mean?" 574 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,800 It was on extremely good ground and moreover... 575 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:17,160 'If it stumps the world's top scientists then I think it's OK for it to be beyond me. 576 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,800 'This really is a foreign language. 577 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:25,320 'But I was getting a broader sense of how equations have advanced knowledge.' 578 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:32,160 I do feel from your talk that I'm starting to get a picture filled in 579 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,640 for me of science, the big points. 580 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,680 Newton, Einstein and now Dirac. 581 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:44,680 That's right. And a sort of journey that the spheres, the planets, 582 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,520 the stars, this earth, everything on it, all the objects 583 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,520 can be somehow described and understood in mechanical terms. 584 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,440 That's right. Einstein said that the most incomprehensible thing 585 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,280 about the universe is that it is comprehensible. 586 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:06,120 And Dirac, Newton, Einstein, they all had faith that they could, 587 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,520 if they thought hard enough, they could come up with these laws that 588 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,760 describe nature at a fundamental level. 589 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,840 But faith doesn't produce more faith, it actually produces equations. 590 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,080 Oh, absolutely. 591 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,240 It's not like a faith that you can't verify. Faith oils the works. Yeah. 592 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:27,120 Dirac actually said that the principle of mathematical beauty was a kind of religion to him. 593 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,840 He actually used those words because he really did believe 594 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,200 with all his heart and soul that a mathematically beautiful theory 595 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,840 was going to be the kind of theory that nature backed 596 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:43,840 and that that was the direction in which you should travel, so he really did believe that. 597 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,520 It was an article of faith. 598 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,400 Why is the spinner beautiful? 599 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,440 This is beautiful because Dirac used this equation 600 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,080 to predict the first example of anti-matter. 601 00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,480 This was perhaps the greatest triumph of 20th century physics. 602 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,200 Now just to give you a sense of how monumental that is, 603 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,720 now cosmologists believe that the very beginning of the universe, 604 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:11,240 half the universe was anti-matter. 605 00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:15,400 So by that token, Dirac conceived, using this equation, 606 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,560 half the universe in his head. 607 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,000 'Scientists now stand in awe of Dirac's Equation. 608 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,720 'But at the time, things were very different. 609 00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:44,120 'In the late 1920's, anti-matter was totally unknown. 610 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,880 'The idea that every electron, proton, and neutron 611 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,040 'had an opposite partner was preposterous. 612 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:56,120 'If his equation predicted this make-believe stuff 613 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,240 'then it must be wrong.' 614 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,840 OK, so what we can do now is go into the teaching lab. 615 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,480 What we have is an experiment set up where we can 616 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,600 actually see tracks of particles that have been produced by anti-matter. 617 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,400 So you'll be showing me some anti-matter in action. 618 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,160 'Five years after Dirac came up with his prediction, 619 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,000 'anti-matter was discovered.' 620 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,040 'The equation had turned out to be true. 621 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,800 'Now, I too want to see the proof.' 622 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,000 This is the first practical place I've been to. 623 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,640 I'm surprised at how quaint everything looks. 624 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,120 This is a very simple experiment. This is very low tech. 625 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,200 You could do this in your kitchen. 626 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,600 Really? OK, so, this is a magnet. 627 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:47,160 It's a fairly powerful magnet and we're going to put dry ice on here, so that will be very cold. 628 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,280 A sort of cookery element at the moment. It is yeah. 629 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,040 Cooking fish in salt. 630 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,560 Now the Perspex box is going to go on top. 631 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,680 And there's alcohol that we put in the upper layer. 632 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,560 In order to see the tracks, they're actually quite faint, 633 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,480 we have to illuminate it with a very bright lamp. OK. 634 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,280 And then, one of the other ingredients that we should 635 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,240 explain here is the radioactive sources that we're going to use. 636 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:18,200 So we have two radioactive sources. 637 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,440 One emits electrons and the other emits positrons. 638 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,360 And so what we have here is the isotope of strontium called strontium 90. 639 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:32,080 'Glen told me these radioactive materials would let us see the tracks of electrons. 640 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,000 'And more importantly, the anti-matter partner to the electron. 641 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,560 'Known as the positron, this is the particle predicted by Dirac's Equation.' 642 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,640 It emits positrons and we'll see tracks that are very similar. 643 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,680 Maybe slightly lower energy actually and they will be bending to the left. 644 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:55,120 So that really is the demonstration, that we have two types of particles that really look very similar 645 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,840 in terms of the tracks that they make, 646 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,240 except that one is positively charged and the other is negatively charged. 647 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,880 Yeah, yeah, I saw one going that way. 648 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,440 Furthermore, they should be bending to the right and they are. 649 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,120 Yeah, they're thin and irregular. It's like a string of beads almost. 650 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,560 OK, so all I've really convinced you that you can see so far are 651 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,480 bog standard electrons. 652 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,560 Even at the bog standard level, it's pretty impressive. 653 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,600 We're all made of plenty of those. 654 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,520 And so, maybe what we can try now, is to put in the positron source. 655 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,320 What we should see, is that they will bend in the opposite direction. 656 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,640 The other one slotted in scientifically. That's right. 657 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,760 We're just going to hold it on to the entrance way. 658 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,360 Now I should expect to see things going to the left. 659 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:49,120 I'm seeing activity but not necessarily lines going to the left. 660 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:53,480 'We'd seen the electrons bend to the right. 661 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:58,440 'Now Glen hoped that we might spot the rarer anti-matter tracks 662 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,320 'as they curve towards the other side.' 663 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,160 One there! Very, very clear. 664 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,200 There you go. Fantastic! 665 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,760 So that's the first time in this experiment that I've seen the anti-matter. 666 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,640 That was definitely coming from the source. 667 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:21,120 The amazing thing is to have something from... 668 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:26,320 a sort of comic world of science fiction, anti-matter, 669 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:32,960 to have it presented to us in reality. There we go. 670 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,280 Except I wasn't looking at that one. 671 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,600 Every 30, 40 seconds a little blip occurs 672 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,360 within a sort of 10p size radius of the source. 673 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,560 It shoots out, curls around, doesn't go very far. 674 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,560 One there, very curly one, shot right round! Very good. 675 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:01,040 Yeah, yeah. So, we're really seeing a physical thing, 676 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,960 which connects to the very complicated mind-world of Paul Dirac. 677 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,000 That's right. Somehow the existence of anti-matter 678 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,000 emerges as a necessary consequence of the theory that he wrote down 679 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,680 and that's pretty difficult to see. To just look at his equation and say 680 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,960 that should give us anti-matter, but really if you analyse it carefully 681 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,080 it's clear that that is one of its necessary predictions and that's what you're seeing. 682 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,280 So, those curves and blips in that sort of molten sea, 683 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,920 is the Dirac Equation being shown to us in physical form. 684 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,800 'These elusive symbols point to a beautiful idea. 685 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,040 'There is something magical about them. 686 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:55,320 'The existence of anti-matter proved his theory true. 687 00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:00,560 'Keats' romantic poem goes "Beauty is truth, truth is beauty," 688 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,680 'as if one leads to the other. 689 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,760 'And that's exactly what Dirac, the scientist, believed. 690 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,760 'That the search for beauty powers the advance of science.' 691 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:26,120 I'm reading a paper by Dirac, which he delivered in February 1939. 692 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,880 He says, "What makes the theory of relativity so acceptable to 693 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,880 "physicists in spite of its going against the principle of simplicity, 694 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,280 "is its great mathematical beauty. 695 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,120 "This is a quality which cannot be defined any more than beauty in art 696 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,760 "can be defined, but which people who study mathematics usually 697 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,000 "have no difficulty in appreciating." 698 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,960 So, he's saying that beauty in art can't be ultimately defined 699 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,000 any more than beauty in anything can be ultimately defined. 700 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,920 But what he is saying is that people in the world of very, very high 701 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:05,360 and complex mathematics agree that beauty is something that 702 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,760 they all appreciate and follow. 703 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,720 And it may be that what Dirac is saying is that 704 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,880 there's a sort of high or true or pure beauty that 705 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,200 mathematicians are interested in, 706 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:22,720 which sounds to me a bit like the inner, true, deep beauty of art. 707 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:25,480 But you have to go on a bit of a journey to find, 708 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,480 you can't expect it to come leaping out and waving at you 709 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:33,080 straightaway when you haven't really bothered to get involved with art 710 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,880 and try and find out what it is. 711 00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,920 I like these buildings very much. 712 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:03,120 But I think they have a sort of comic element. 713 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:09,680 They seem like a Hollywood mock up of some kind of scientific base 714 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,920 where something sinister is being worked out behind the scenes. 715 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,760 You wouldn't even really think you were in England. 716 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,560 You could be anywhere in the world. 717 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:29,040 I'm ending my foray into science with an equation about black holes. 718 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,840 I'd always thought they were the stuff of science fiction, 719 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,720 but the inner workings of black holes are explained 720 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:39,160 by the fifth of my great equations. 721 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:47,040 All the previous equations have come from historical figures - Newton, Einstein and Dirac. 722 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:54,160 This will be my chance to hear about the entropy equation direct from its creator, Stephen Hawking. 723 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:59,560 And find out if he agrees with Paul Dirac about beauty and the truth of science. 724 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,200 Thanks very much for allowing me into your department, Stephen. 725 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,480 Can I ask you straight away, 726 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,240 is beauty important for you in your scientific work? 727 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:20,440 I don't know about beauty, 728 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,400 but the fundamental laws of the universe should be elegant. 729 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,480 What do you mean by elegant? 730 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:33,880 An equation is elegant if it is short, simple and explains 731 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:38,920 properties of the universe that were previously not accounted for. 732 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,000 My most elegant equation is very simple. 733 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,040 It is S = a quarter A. 734 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,040 Here, A is the area of the boundary of a black hole. 735 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,720 And S is its entropy, a measure of how much heat it contains. 736 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,760 What does that mean? 737 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:06,280 This equation shows that black holes aren't completely black. 738 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:11,720 They glow like hot bodies and lose energy and mass. 739 00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:17,080 Eventually they will disappear in a tremendous explosion. 740 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,160 Why is that an elegant equation? 741 00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:27,440 The equation came from a rather messy calculation. 742 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:32,320 It seemed a miracle that such a concise equation should result. 743 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,080 This equation unravels the physics of black holes, 744 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,120 one of the most mysterious objects in the universe. 745 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,280 As I understand it, the equation says that as stuff 746 00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,240 falls into the black hole, the surface area of the black hole 747 00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,720 gets bigger, and the entropy does too. 748 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,640 In 1975, when Stephen Hawking came up with his equation, 749 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,880 there was still some doubt as to whether black holes existed. 750 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,960 35 years on, all scientists agree they do. 751 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,920 Black holes have entered the realm of science fact. 752 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,320 While making this film, I found out that Paul Dirac 753 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,680 believed that it was more important to have beauty in one's equation 754 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,920 than to have the equation backed up by actual experiment. 755 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:25,600 Is this too extreme a view for you? 756 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,960 I think what Dirac meant was that although a beautiful equation 757 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,640 might not agree with experiment at a particular time, 758 00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:38,240 it will eventually turn out to be true in the long run. 759 00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:44,600 I think elegance is a good guide for equations but not an infallible one. 760 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:45,800 In art, an artist like Picasso say, 761 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,720 In art, an artist like Picasso say, 762 00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,160 will just be working from hour to hour, 763 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,000 from work to work, pushing his ideas along with his work. 764 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,960 He doesn't necessarily think, "Now, I've discovered cubism." 765 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:03,000 That accolade will be bestowed upon his work 766 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,760 a bit later by other people. 767 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,880 But he probably will, at some point, think, 768 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,160 "I have made some kind of breakthrough here." 769 00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,360 And I wonder if that breakthrough feeling, 770 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,400 if there's an equivalent for you in your type of enquiry. 771 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,480 There's nothing like the Eureka moment of discovering 772 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,160 something that no-one knew before. 773 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:33,080 I won't compare it to sex, but it lasts longer. 774 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,400 Thank you very much, Stephen. 775 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:36,880 Thank you. 776 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,480 The very fact that Stephen agreed to be interviewed by me, 777 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,720 when it's not an easy task for him, 778 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:53,960 it's not something that he does a lot, 779 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,320 proves to me that he believes in the thesis that beauty 780 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,840 is a significant element in the work of a theoretical scientist. 781 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:08,760 That making an equation calls for some kind of, 782 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,720 not just a sense of beauty, but almost a pursuit of it. 783 00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:17,600 The pursuit of beauty really is a sort of driving force 784 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,200 in evolving an equation. 785 00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:25,000 I've got to let all that sink in now. 786 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,840 I've been very happy to have my head crammed full of unfamiliar ideas, 787 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,160 but now there's one more thing I need to do. 788 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,760 Hello, Cary, how nice to see you! 789 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:19,240 I'm at the opening of my own exhibition, the work I do with my partner, Emma. 790 00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:23,080 I've invited the scientists and most of them have turned up. 791 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,080 Throughout this film, the word "beauty" has often cropped up. 792 00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,880 But it's hard to define and I can't help but feel that 793 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,880 while there are similarities, there are differences too 794 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,680 in what artists and scientists mean by beauty. 795 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,160 Sorry, which are your paintings? All these paintings. 796 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,400 We do all these. 797 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:46,160 I'm trying to imagine what Paul Dirac would make of this painting. 798 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,040 My guess is he would ask you what you are representing here, 799 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,400 because he had a very literal mind. 800 00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,200 I know what you're saying. 801 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,240 Are you conscious of representing anything? 802 00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:59,080 There's no representation in the room at all, 803 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:03,240 but I think there is the idea of a model of the visual world. 804 00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:07,240 There's a lot going on. There's a lot of them. 805 00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:12,000 You come back in a couple of minutes from looking at something else. You can't find that order again. 806 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,600 Right. 807 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,880 That's really the point of them. 808 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,960 They should have a restlessly changing sense of order. 809 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,960 It's like looking at a fire where the fire always looks the same, but it's never exactly the same. 810 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,280 Exactly. Anything in nature that is permanent and changeable. 811 00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,280 Are all the panels the same, or are they different? 812 00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:32,640 I think they're all pretty different. 813 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,840 It's interesting because you'd look at it and think there's an algorithm 814 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,720 that tells you how you would paint that in terms of the things around. 815 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,040 But he says no, there's also a global point of view. 816 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,160 A non-repeating pattern of some sort. Exactly. 817 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,760 Ultimately, it is highly mathematical, 818 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,800 but actually there is no... We didn't sit down and work it out. 819 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,440 Well, randomness is also mathematical. 820 00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:04,960 It's interesting to see mathematical symmetries come out of aesthetic pursuits. 821 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,640 Well, that's arrived at... 822 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,320 'All my life, science has been totally out of my orbit. 823 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,560 'What was so illuminating for me in this programme was to 824 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,120 'find out that equations are the most important tool in science, 825 00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,360 'forever pushing the boundaries of knowledge. 826 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,720 'And that the greatest and most beautiful equations 827 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,760 'have a life of their own. 828 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:31,840 'They've given us ideas beyond the human imagination.' 829 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,600 Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd 830 00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,720 E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk