1
00:00:07,807 --> 00:00:10,410
WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY
WITH "THE CIVIL WAR"

2
00:00:10,410 --> 00:00:13,446
IS THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY
REMASTERING THE WHOLE PROJECT

3
00:00:13,446 --> 00:00:16,916
ONTO A DIGITAL MEDIUM SO THAT
WE CAN RELEASE IT ON DVD.

4
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AND ALSO HAVE AN ANNIVERSARY,

5
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12th YEAR ANNIVERSARY
REBROADCAST ON PBS

6
00:00:19,953 --> 00:00:22,122
IN SEPTEMBER OF 2002.

7
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WHAT MAKES ME EXCITED
ABOUT THE PROCESS

8
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IS TECHNOLOGY HAS ADVANCED
SO MUCH IN THE LAST 12 YEARS

9
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THAT THE ORIGINAL FILM
TO VIDEO TRANSFER

10
00:00:32,098 --> 00:00:33,833
BACK IN 1990 --

11
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THE TECHNOLOGY WAS NOWHERE
NEAR AS GOOD AS IT IS NOW.

12
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ALSO, BACK THEN, KEN AND I
WERE NOT PARTICULARLY HAPPY

13
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WITH THE OVERALL LOOK
OF THE FILM,

14
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BOTH IN THE FILM PRINTS
AND IN THE VIDEO MASTER.

15
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AND THIS GIVES US
THE OPPORTUNITY

16
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TO APPLY TECHNOLOGY THAT WE'VE
USED ON PROJECTS RECENTLY

17
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ALL THE WAY UP TO "JAZZ,"

18
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WORKING HERE AT TAPE HOUSE

19
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AND WITH ALL THESE NEW
TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES

20
00:00:54,654 --> 00:00:55,955
THAT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED,

21
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TO BE ABLE TO MAKE
"THE CIVIL WAR"

22
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AS GORGEOUS AND AS BEAUTIFUL
AS, LET'S SAY, JAZZ WAS,

23
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YOU KNOW, LAST YEAR.

24
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SO WE'RE BOTH VERY, VERY EXCITED
ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES

25
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THAT WE CAN REALLY
MAKE THIS THING

26
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LOOK THE WAY
WE REALLY WANTED IT TO,

27
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AS WE INTENDED TO
12 YEARS AGO.

28
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THERE WE GO, YEAH,
MAKE IT A LITTLE BRIGHTER.

29
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LET'S INCREASE THE CONTRAST
A LITTLE BIT ON THAT.

30
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Man: I WAS PRIVILEGED TO MEET

31
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ANSEL ADAMS IN 1971.

32
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AND WE REMAINED FRIENDS
TILL HIS DEATH IN 1984.

33
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AND HE TAUGHT ME A GREAT DEAL.

34
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HE ACTUALLY BECAME
QUITE A MENTOR OF MINE.

35
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AND ONE OF HIS GREAT QUOTES IS,
"THE NEGATIVE IS THE SCORE

36
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AND THE PRINT
IS THE PERFORMANCE."

37
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WELL, HERE'S THE SCORE --

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THIS FILM, 12 YEARS OLD,
IT'S OUR SCORE,

39
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AND ON THIS SPIRIT DATACINE,
WE ARE GOING TO

40
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CREATE A WHOLE NEW PERFORMANCE.

41
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WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU
AN IMAGE THAT IS GREATER,

42
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BETTER, MORE TEXTURED,
MORE BEAUTIFUL TO YOUR HOME.

43
00:01:54,514 --> 00:01:57,117
12 YEARS AGO
THE TECHNOLOGY WE'RE USING

44
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THE SPIRIT DATACINE,

45
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WHICH IS GOING TO SCAN
THIS MOVIE FILM, DID NOT EXIST.

46
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IN THOSE DAYS,

47
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FILM WAS TRANSFERRED
ON WHAT WAS CALLED A TELECINE,

48
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MEANING TELEVISION AND CINEMA.

49
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SO A TELECINE
WAS SCANNING THE FILM

50
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ONLY AT TELEVISION RESOLUTION.

51
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SO EACH FRAME,
THERE'S SO MUCH INFORMATION

52
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IN ONE SINGLE FRAME
OF MOVIE FILM,

53
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YET WE WERE
COARSELY SCANNING IT,

54
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ONLY ABOUT 480 LINES
TO A SINGLE FRAME.

55
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THE SPIRIT IS SCANNING THE FILM
FIVE TO SIX TIMES GREATER

56
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THAN THE OLD TELECINES.

57
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WE'RE ACTUALLY SCANNING THE FILM
AT ITS FILM RESOLUTION.

58
00:02:31,384 --> 00:02:33,987
THIS IMAGE THAT I HAVE UP,
IF I ZOOM IN,

59
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WE'RE RIGHT DOWN
ON THE ABSOLUTE GRAIN STRUCTURE

60
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HAS BEEN CAPTURED

61
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AT 2K RESOLUTION.

62
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EACH FILM FRAME

63
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IS ABOUT 14 MEGABYTES
OF INFORMATION.

64
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SO WE'RE SCANNING IT

65
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AND THEN IN THIS
14 MEGABYTE FILE

66
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I'M ACTUALLY
CHANGING THE CONTRAST,

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BLACK LEVELS, WHITE LEVELS,
COLOR IMAGERY,

68
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ON A SHOT BY SHOT BASIS.

69
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UH, 12 YEARS AGO,

70
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WHEN THIS FILM WAS SHOT,
FILM WAS A BIT GRAINY.

71
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IT'S IMPROVED SIGNIFICANTLY
SINCE THEN.

72
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WE HAVE A DEVICE
ON THE SPIRIT,

73
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BRAND-NEW, CALLED SCREAM.

74
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WHAT I'M GOING TO DO
IS ISOLATE --

75
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LET ME ACTUALLY GIVE YOU
A SPLIT SCREEN

76
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TO SHOW YOU
WHAT WE'RE DOING.

77
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HERE, LET ME RUN
THE FILM HERE.

78
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LOOK ON THE RIGHT SIDE,
THAT'S CORRECTED.

79
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ISN'T THAT FABULOUS?

80
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AND ON THE LEFT SIDE
IS THE UNCORRECTED.

81
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SO WE'RE ACTUALLY,
YEAH, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING ON.

82
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WE'RE NOT LOSING
ANY INFORMATION.

83
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LET'S TRY IT,
LET'S TRY IT ON THIS ONE, TOO.

84
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Barnes: OH, THAT'S
UNBELIEVABLE, LOOK AT THAT.

85
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Dowdell: THIS IS REALLY
GOING TO HELP US.

86
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YOU CAN SEE ALL THAT ACTIVITY,
THE HIGH FREQUENCY INFORMATION

87
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OH, EXACTLY, IT'S ALL
SMOOTHED OUT,

88
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IT'S ALMOST ALL GONE.

89
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I'M ALSO GETTING RID
OF THE FLUTTER.

90
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RIGHT.

91
00:03:42,956 --> 00:03:45,558
SO, YEAH, I THINK THIS IS
GOING TO REALLY IMPROVE IT.

92
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AND NOTICE WE'RE
REALLY DEALING WITH

93
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THIS WHOLE GRAIN STRUCTURE.

94
00:03:49,028 --> 00:03:53,800
OH, BOY,
WHAT WAS THAT?

95
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WHOA, THAT'S ONE HELL
OF A PIECE OF DIRT THERE.

96
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WE'LL DEAL
WITH THAT UPSTAIRS.

97
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I'VE GOT THE PERFECT GUY,

98
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GOT TO GET GEORGE
ON THIS PROJECT.

99
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AND HE CAN DO THAT
IN THE PAINT BOX,

100
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HE'LL CLEAN THAT RIGHT UP.

101
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Man: MY NAME'S GEORGE BUNCE.

102
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I'M A HENRY ARTIST HERE
AT THE TAPE HOUSE IN NEW YORK.

103
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AND I WORK ON A HENRY
FROM QUANTEL.

104
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AND TODAY WE'RE GOING TO
BE TAKING AWAY

105
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SOME HAIR AND DIRT
FROM EPISODE FIVE

106
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OF "THE CIVIL WAR."

107
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SO, FOR EXAMPLE,
THIS HAIR...

108
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WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN
VERY DIFFICULT

109
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TO GET RID OF IN THE PAST --

110
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BY TAKING INFORMATION
FROM THE FOLLOWING FRAME,

111
00:04:38,044 --> 00:04:41,080
PUTTING THAT FRAME
OVER THE TOP OF IT,

112
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BRINGING IT INTO
THE PAINTING SIDE,

113
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THEN WE CAN JUST

114
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ZOOM WAY IN ON THE PROBLEM,

115
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AND JUST PAINT IT AWAY.

116
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AND THEN WHEREVER I PAINT,
IT'S REPLACING

117
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THE INFORMATION
FROM THE TOP FRAME

118
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WITH THE UNDERLYING IMAGE.

119
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SO REALLY...

120
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PRETTY SEAMLESS.

121
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THEN YOU JUST PUT IT
BACK INTO THE CLIP

122
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IT DISAPPEARS, NOW YOU CAN SEE

123
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THAT HAIR'S GONE.

124
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Barnes: "THE CIVIL WAR"
WAS NOT DONE IN STEREO.

125
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SO THAT WAS THE FIRST
BIG DECISION WAS,

126
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LET'S MAKE A NEW STEREO MIX
FOR BROADCAST

127
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OF "THE CIVIL WAR."

128
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AND THEN, OF COURSE,
THE THOUGHT CAME UP

129
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THAT WE COULD ALSO
RE-RELEASE THE FILM ON A DVD.

130
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AND WITH DVD, WE HAVE

131
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THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO
A RICHER MIX

132
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WITH A 5.1 STEREO
SURROUND SOUND.

133
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AND WE DECIDED THAT WE WOULD
GO AHEAD WITH THAT AS WELL.

134
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Man: SO THAT'S BASICALLY
WHAT WE'VE DONE,

135
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WE'VE TAKEN THE ORIGINAL
SOUNDTRACK, WHICH WAS MONO,

136
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KEPT ALL THE DIALOGUE NOW
IN THE CENTER SPEAKER

137
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AND WE HAVE A LEFT,
RIGHT CENTER TO PLAY WITH

138
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SO WE COULD HAVE MORE EFFECTS
SURROUNDING THE VOICE

139
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TO GIVE YOU A MORE POWERFUL
FEELING OF THE BATTLE SCENES.

140
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AND, OF COURSE, THE MUSIC NOW
IS TOTAL SURROUND.

141
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IT'S FIVE MUSIC --
POINTS OF MUSIC.

142
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AND IT'S A MUCH MORE
INTERESTING EXPERIENCE

143
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ON THE SOUND LEVEL.

144
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<i>IN THE CROWD,</i>
<i>JUST A FEW --</i>

145
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REPLACE IT IN THE SURROUNDS,
THIS MUSIC, A LITTLE BIT.

146
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Man: THIS IS LIKE PLAYING
A FINE GAME OF CHESS

147
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GOING BACK OVER
THE SAME MATERIAL,

148
00:06:22,148 --> 00:06:24,317
SEEING IT ON A DIGITAL SCREEN.

149
00:06:24,751 --> 00:06:26,919
YOU KNOW, COMPUTERS NOW HAVE
A VISUAL QUALITY,

150
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YOU CAN SEE SOUND,

151
00:06:28,654 --> 00:06:30,390
LOOKING AT A WAVEFORM.

152
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IN THE OLD DAYS,
YOU COULDN'T SEE IT,

153
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AND YOU COULD ONLY LISTEN
TO ONE AT A TIME.

154
00:06:34,727 --> 00:06:36,462
YOU KNOW, IN THE PRO TOOLS

155
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AND ANY OF THESE OTHER
EDITING SYSTEMS,

156
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YOU CAN LISTEN TO 20
OR 30 TRACKS AT ONCE.

157
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THAT WAS JUST UNIMAGINABLE
IN '88, '89.

158
00:06:45,571 --> 00:06:48,174
Barnes: I THINK WE SHOULD PULL
THE APPLAUSE AWAY, ACTUALLY,

159
00:06:48,174 --> 00:06:49,475
NOT SWELL IT.

160
00:06:49,475 --> 00:06:52,512
LET IT DRIFT OFF.

161
00:06:52,512 --> 00:06:54,247
Barnes: BUT AS WELL
AS DOING A REMIX,

162
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WE ALSO WANTED TO MAINTAIN
THE INTEGRITY OF THE TRACK

163
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THAT WAS ALREADY THERE.

164
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AND KEN AND I DISCUSSED THAT

165
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THAT WAS
VERY IMPORTANT TO DO THAT.

166
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WHEN PEOPLE FIRST
SAW THE FILM BROADCAST,

167
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THEY COMMENTED HOW MUCH
THEY LIKED THE MUSIC,

168
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THEY COMMENTED ON HOW EFFECTIVE
THE SOUND EFFECTS WERE --

169
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SO THAT WE DIDN'T REALLY WANT
TO CHANGE A LOT IN THE TRACK.

170
00:07:13,332 --> 00:07:15,935
IT WAS REALLY A MATTER
OF PUTTING EVERYTHING

171
00:07:15,935 --> 00:07:17,236
INTO STEREO AS MUCH AS WE COULD.

172
00:07:17,236 --> 00:07:19,405
AND TO ENHANCE IT,

173
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AND TO MAKE IT A RICHER
EXPERIENCE SOUNDWISE.

174
00:07:21,574 --> 00:07:24,177
AND SOME OF THE HIGH NOTES
ARE GETTING IN THE WAY.

175
00:07:24,177 --> 00:07:26,345
SO LET'S GO BACK
AND REDO THIS CUE.

176
00:07:26,345 --> 00:07:28,080
Barnes: AND WHEN WE FIRST
FINISHED THE FILM,

177
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,816
BACK IN '89, '90,

178
00:07:29,816 --> 00:07:31,551
YOU KNOW, WE WERE STRUGGLING
WITH MONEY AND TIME.

179
00:07:31,551 --> 00:07:37,190
WE WERE NEVER COMPLETELY HAPPY
WITH THE WAY IT LOOKED,

180
00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:40,226
AND EVEN MADE CERTAIN
COMPROMISES IN THE MIXING,

181
00:07:40,226 --> 00:07:42,395
JUST IN ORDER TO KEEP THINGS
WITHIN BUDGET

182
00:07:42,395 --> 00:07:44,564
AND TIME SCHEDULES.

183
00:07:44,997 --> 00:07:47,166
AND THIS HAS ALLOWED US
A LITTLE MORE FREEDOM TO GO BACK

184
00:07:47,166 --> 00:07:49,335
AND IMPROVE THE COLOR
ACROSS THE BOARD,

185
00:07:49,769 --> 00:07:51,938
AND TO ENHANCE THE SOUND
OR MAKE THE SOUND BETTER

186
00:07:52,371 --> 00:07:53,673
ACROSS THE BOARD.

187
00:07:53,673 --> 00:07:56,275
SO I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE ABLE
TO ACHIEVE HERE,

188
00:07:56,275 --> 00:07:59,312
AND WHY THE TWO OF US ARE SO
HAPPY ABOUT DOING THIS IS THAT

189
00:07:59,312 --> 00:08:01,481
IT'S GOING TO FEEL LIKE
A TOTALLY NEW FILM.

190
00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:03,216
I MEAN, FOR THOSE
WHO HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE,

191
00:08:03,216 --> 00:08:05,384
THE EXPERIENCE WILL BE
THE SAME, I'M SURE.

192
00:08:05,384 --> 00:08:06,686
BUT IT'S GOING TO BE,

193
00:08:07,119 --> 00:08:09,722
I JUST THINK,
VISUALLY AND AURALLY,

194
00:08:09,722 --> 00:08:11,457
IT'S GOING TO BE
A RICHER EXPERIENCE FOR FOLKS

195
00:08:11,457 --> 00:08:13,853
TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THIS.

196
00:08:18,730 --> 00:08:21,332
ROLLING.

197
00:08:27,505 --> 00:08:31,842
OKAY, THAT WAS A TILT,
MEDIUM TILT TO DOORWAY.

198
00:08:50,061 --> 00:08:52,229
WE APPROACH OUR PROJECTS

199
00:08:52,229 --> 00:08:54,832
WITH IGNORANCE AND CURIOSITY.

200
00:08:55,266 --> 00:08:59,170
THIS ALLOWS US
TO HAVE A PROCESS OF DISCOVERY.

201
00:08:59,170 --> 00:09:01,339
WE DON'T KNOW
UNTIL IT'S OVER.

202
00:09:01,339 --> 00:09:03,507
WE HAVE CERTAIN BIASES
AND SYMPATHIES

203
00:09:03,507 --> 00:09:06,978
WHICH WE TRY
TO EXPOSE TO OURSELVES

204
00:09:06,978 --> 00:09:10,014
AND WE ALLOW THE CONSULTANTS,
MOSTLY ACADEMIC HISTORIANS,

205
00:09:10,014 --> 00:09:12,183
TO HELP US ROOT THEM OUT.

206
00:09:12,183 --> 00:09:17,822
AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE
A KIND OF JOYFUL RELATIONSHIP

207
00:09:17,822 --> 00:09:19,557
TO THE PROCESS
OF LEARNING SOMETHING NEW.

208
00:09:19,557 --> 00:09:22,159
THAT'S WHAT I LOVE
ABOUT THIS JOB.

209
00:09:32,570 --> 00:09:36,474
CAN YOU IMAGINE IF EVERY
FILMING LOCATION YOU WENT TO

210
00:09:36,474 --> 00:09:38,642
YOU KNEW EXACTLY
WHAT YOU WANTED TO GET,

211
00:09:38,642 --> 00:09:41,679
INSTEAD OF BEING OPEN
TO THE POSSIBILITIES?

212
00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,414
WELL, WE ACTUALLY PICK UP
THE REFLECTION

213
00:09:43,414 --> 00:09:45,149
ON THE OTHER SIDE.

214
00:09:45,149 --> 00:09:46,884
THE POSSIBILITIES, IN THE CASE
OF LIVE CINEMATOGRAPHY,

215
00:09:46,884 --> 00:09:48,619
TO LIGHT.

216
00:09:48,619 --> 00:09:51,222
IN THE CASE
OF STILL PHOTOGRAPHS,

217
00:09:51,222 --> 00:09:53,824
TO A NEW ONE
THAT'S NOT ON YOUR LIST

218
00:09:53,824 --> 00:09:56,427
OF WHAT YOU WANT TO COLLECT,
BUT A NEW ONE NONETHELESS

219
00:09:56,427 --> 00:09:59,463
THAT IS GOING TO TAKE YOU
IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

220
00:09:59,897 --> 00:10:02,066
WE SHOOT, NOT WORRIED ABOUT

221
00:10:02,066 --> 00:10:03,801
WHETHER THERE'S A PLACE
IN OUR SCRIPT

222
00:10:03,801 --> 00:10:05,536
TO ILLUSTRATE THIS,

223
00:10:05,536 --> 00:10:07,705
AND WE WORK ON A SCRIPT,

224
00:10:07,705 --> 00:10:10,307
UNAFRAID OF WHETHER
THERE'S PICTURES OR NOT.

225
00:10:10,307 --> 00:10:12,910
AND THAT MAKES IT HELL
IN THE EDITING ROOM.

226
00:10:12,910 --> 00:10:15,079
YOU HAVE HUGE BATTLES.

227
00:10:15,079 --> 00:10:16,814
Woman: BUT THE FACT IS,
HE'S INVESTED

228
00:10:16,814 --> 00:10:18,549
IN A CERTAIN INTERPRETATION
OF THE HISTORY.

229
00:10:18,983 --> 00:10:20,284
I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT
HIS CAREER IS.

230
00:10:20,284 --> 00:10:22,019
EVERYONE WE INTERVIEW

231
00:10:22,019 --> 00:10:23,754
IS INVESTED
IN A CERTAIN INTERPRETATION.

232
00:10:23,754 --> 00:10:25,489
AND I THINK THAT'S WHY
YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO...

233
00:10:25,489 --> 00:10:27,224
Burns: AND QUITE OFTEN,

234
00:10:27,224 --> 00:10:28,959
A GOOD DEAL
OF WHAT YOU DID SHOOT

235
00:10:28,959 --> 00:10:30,694
GETS SET ASIDE, AND SOMETIMES
YOU HAVE TO CUT OUT

236
00:10:30,694 --> 00:10:32,430
SOMETHING FROM YOUR SCRIPT

237
00:10:32,430 --> 00:10:34,598
BECAUSE THERE'S
NOTHING TO SHOW.

238
00:10:34,598 --> 00:10:35,900
BUT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT,

239
00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:40,237
BECAUSE YOU'VE FILMED
WITH THIS OPEN MANNER,

240
00:10:40,237 --> 00:10:41,972
YOU FIND NEW WAYS
TO TELL STORIES.

241
00:10:41,972 --> 00:10:45,876
THE SCRIPT AND THE FILMING

242
00:10:45,876 --> 00:10:48,913
ARE TWO PARALLEL TRACKS
UNTIL WE BEGIN EDITING.

243
00:10:48,913 --> 00:10:51,949
AND SO WE'RE
CONSTANTLY DEVELOPING

244
00:10:51,949 --> 00:10:54,985
THE SCRIPT
FROM THE VERY BEGINNING,

245
00:10:54,985 --> 00:10:57,154
AND WE'RE CONSTANTLY SHOOTING
FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

246
00:10:57,154 --> 00:10:58,456
AND RESEARCH GOES ON
FROM DAY ONE

247
00:10:58,456 --> 00:11:00,191
AND ENDS

248
00:11:00,191 --> 00:11:03,227
AFTER WE FINISH THE FILM.

249
00:11:03,227 --> 00:11:04,962
RESEARCH ISN'T A PERIOD,

250
00:11:04,962 --> 00:11:07,131
AND WE DON'T HAVE
LEGIONS OF RESEARCHERS.

251
00:11:07,131 --> 00:11:08,866
WE DO THAT HEAVY LIFTING.

252
00:11:08,866 --> 00:11:10,601
WHAT WE NEED TO DO,
THESE ARE DEFINITELY ORIGINALS,

253
00:11:10,601 --> 00:11:13,204
SO WE'LL TAKE THAT.

254
00:11:13,637 --> 00:11:15,372
I CAN'T IMAGINE
SENDING ANYONE ELSE,

255
00:11:15,372 --> 00:11:17,975
OTHER THAN THE INNER CIRCLE,
TO GO TO AN ARCHIVE

256
00:11:17,975 --> 00:11:20,144
AND CHOOSE PHOTOGRAPHS.

257
00:11:20,144 --> 00:11:21,879
THAT'S TERRIFYING TO ME.

258
00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:24,048
THAT IS A GREAT SHOT, I WANT TO
STILL STAY WITH THIS GUY.

259
00:11:24,482 --> 00:11:27,084
I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE
A FEW MORE THINGS TO DO.

260
00:11:27,084 --> 00:11:30,121
AS I'M LOOKING
AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH,

261
00:11:30,121 --> 00:11:34,024
I'M NOT BOUND FROM
THE REQUIREMENT OF WHAT TO FILM,

262
00:11:34,024 --> 00:11:37,495
BUT I'M FREE TO EXPLORE.

263
00:11:37,495 --> 00:11:38,796
AND I THINK THAT MAKES
ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

264
00:11:39,230 --> 00:11:40,531
I HAVE AN IDEA.

265
00:11:43,134 --> 00:11:47,037
IT'S NOT GOOD TO HAVE AN IDEA
IN THE MIDDLE OF A SHOT.

266
00:11:50,941 --> 00:11:52,676
HONORED PARENTS,

267
00:11:52,676 --> 00:11:56,580
I AM NOW ON AN EXPEDITION
TO THE WESTWARD,

268
00:11:56,580 --> 00:11:59,183
THROUGH THE INTERIOR PARTS
OF NORTH AMERICA.

269
00:11:59,617 --> 00:12:05,256
GREAT IS BASEBALL,
THE NATIONAL TONIC,

270
00:12:05,256 --> 00:12:07,858
THE REVIVAL OF HOPE,

271
00:12:07,858 --> 00:12:11,328
THE RESTORER OF CONFIDENCE.

272
00:12:11,328 --> 00:12:14,365
IN SOME CASES YOU KNOW,
IN THE VOICES THAT YOU CHOOSE,

273
00:12:14,365 --> 00:12:16,100
EXACTLY WHO IS
GOING TO PLAY WHAT PART.

274
00:12:16,534 --> 00:12:18,702
I KNEW SAM WATERSTON WAS
GOING TO PLAY ABRAHAM LINCOLN,

275
00:12:18,702 --> 00:12:20,871
AND I KNEW THAT I WANTED
TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE

276
00:12:20,871 --> 00:12:22,606
AT THOMAS JEFFERSON,

277
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:24,341
AND HE HIT HOME RUNS
IN BOTH CASES.

278
00:12:24,341 --> 00:12:27,378
ASSURE ALL YOUR PARTY

279
00:12:27,378 --> 00:12:30,414
THAT WE HAVE OUR EYES
TURNED ON THEM

280
00:12:30,414 --> 00:12:33,884
WITH ANXIETY FOR THEIR SAFETY.

281
00:12:33,884 --> 00:12:36,921
IN OTHERS, YOU DON'T KNOW,
AND IN MANY CASES,

282
00:12:36,921 --> 00:12:39,523
YOU BRING IN A VOICE
THAT YOU'VE WORKED WITH

283
00:12:39,523 --> 00:12:41,258
OR A NEW VOICE
THAT YOU'RE ATTRACTED TO

284
00:12:41,258 --> 00:12:43,427
AND HAVE THEM READ
A VARIETY OF VOICES.

285
00:12:43,427 --> 00:12:48,199
WHEN THINGS LOOK DARK,
VOID, AND ALL TOGETHER HOPELESS

286
00:12:48,199 --> 00:12:50,367
TO THE COLORED YOUTH
OF AMERICA,

287
00:12:50,367 --> 00:12:56,006
THEY WILL ONLY NEED
TO READ AND REFLECT

288
00:12:56,006 --> 00:12:59,476
UPON THE REMARKABLE CAREER
OF JACKIE ROBINSON.

289
00:12:59,476 --> 00:13:02,947
Burns: WHAT PEOPLE
DON'T REMEMBER

290
00:13:02,947 --> 00:13:05,549
IS HOW MUCH OF AN ICEBERG
THIS PRODUCTION IS.

291
00:13:05,549 --> 00:13:07,284
FOR EVERY SHOT
THEY SEE ON THE SCREEN,

292
00:13:07,284 --> 00:13:09,019
THERE'S 20 OR 30 OTHER SHOTS.

293
00:13:09,019 --> 00:13:12,056
FOR EVERY VOICE THEY'VE HEARD,
THAT'S BEEN READ

294
00:13:12,056 --> 00:13:14,225
FIVE DIFFERENT WAYS

295
00:13:14,225 --> 00:13:16,827
BY FIVE DIFFERENT READERS,

296
00:13:17,261 --> 00:13:20,297
AND THAT WE'RE CHOOSING
SUBTLE CHARACTERIZATIONS

297
00:13:20,731 --> 00:13:22,466
AND, SORT OF, MODALITIES.

298
00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:25,069
ALL OF THESE HAVE TO BE
LISTENED TO, RECORDED,

299
00:13:25,069 --> 00:13:26,804
PUT TOGETHER, SPACED OUT,

300
00:13:26,804 --> 00:13:29,406
ADDED TO
A PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH,

301
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,443
WHICH WE'RE CONSTANTLY CHANGING
WITHIN A SEQUENCE,

302
00:13:32,876 --> 00:13:36,347
WHICH IS ALWAYS EVOLVING,
ALL DURING EDITING.

303
00:13:36,347 --> 00:13:38,949
<i>Woman: LET US SEEK</i>
<i>THEIR DEEPEST RECESSES,</i>

304
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:40,684
<i>WHERE, UNKNOWN</i>
<i>TO OUR DESTROYERS,</i>

305
00:13:40,684 --> 00:13:43,721
<i>WE MAY HUNT DEER</i>
<i>IN THE BIG HORN</i>

306
00:13:43,721 --> 00:13:48,492
<i>AND BRING GLADNESS BACK</i>
<i>TO THE HEARTS OF OUR WIVES</i>

307
00:13:48,492 --> 00:13:50,661
<i>AND CHILDREN.</i>

308
00:13:50,661 --> 00:13:53,264
THAT'S GREAT.

309
00:14:04,541 --> 00:14:08,445
FILM SCORING IS TRADITIONALLY
A MATHEMATICAL APPLICATION

310
00:14:08,879 --> 00:14:10,180
OF MUSIC WRITTEN

311
00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:12,349
AFTER THE FILM IS EDITED.

312
00:14:12,349 --> 00:14:17,121
WE RECORD 90% OF OUR MUSIC
BEFORE WE EVEN START EDITING.

313
00:14:17,554 --> 00:14:18,856
AND THEN WE GO IN,

314
00:14:18,856 --> 00:14:20,591
AND FROM THE VERY BEGINNING
OF EDITING,

315
00:14:20,591 --> 00:14:22,326
START TO ENGAGE MUSIC,

316
00:14:22,326 --> 00:14:24,061
SO THAT MUSIC BECOMES,

317
00:14:24,061 --> 00:14:27,531
NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU ADD
TO AMPLIFY THE NOTION,

318
00:14:27,531 --> 00:14:30,567
BUT SOMETHING THAT'S ORGANIC
TO THE ORIGINAL EMOTION.

319
00:14:30,567 --> 00:14:33,170
AND I THINK THAT'S WHY MUSIC IS
ALWAYS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS

320
00:14:33,604 --> 00:14:34,905
THAT PEOPLE SPEAK ABOUT

321
00:14:34,905 --> 00:14:37,508
WHEN THEY REACT POSITIVELY
TO THE FILMS,

322
00:14:37,508 --> 00:14:40,110
BECAUSE IT WAS THERE
FROM THE BEGINNING,

323
00:14:40,110 --> 00:14:41,845
AND SEEMS TO BELONG.

324
00:14:50,954 --> 00:14:53,123
IT'S NOT SO MUCH
THAT I'VE CHOSEN PBS,

325
00:14:53,557 --> 00:14:54,858
BUT PBS HAS CHOSEN ME.

326
00:14:55,292 --> 00:14:57,461
THERE'S NO OTHER PLACE
ON THE DIAL

327
00:14:57,461 --> 00:14:58,762
THAN PUBLIC TELEVISION,

328
00:14:59,196 --> 00:15:00,931
WHERE YOU CAN DEVELOP
YOUR ATTENTION.

329
00:15:00,931 --> 00:15:03,100
AND AT THE END OF THE DAY,

330
00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:06,570
OUR ATTENTION
IS ALL THAT WE HAVE.

331
00:15:18,282 --> 00:15:22,186
I HAVE NOT MADE A FILM
IN THE LAST 15 YEARS

332
00:15:22,619 --> 00:15:26,523
THAT WASN'T FIRST BROADCAST
ON PUBLIC TELEVISION.

333
00:15:27,580 --> 00:15:30,857
AND I HOPE THAT THAT'S TRUE
FOR THE NEXT 15 YEARS.

334
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:37,961
IN THE OPENING
OF THE "BASEBALL" FILM

335
00:15:37,961 --> 00:15:39,262
WHERE GERALD EARLY,

336
00:15:39,262 --> 00:15:40,997
ONE OF OUR GREAT ESSAYISTS
AND WRITERS RIGHT NOW,

337
00:15:40,997 --> 00:15:42,732
SAYS, "THERE'S ONLY THREE THINGS

338
00:15:42,732 --> 00:15:44,901
AMERICA IS GOING TO
BE KNOWN FOR --"

339
00:15:44,901 --> 00:15:47,504
THE CONSTITUTION, JAZZ MUSIC,
AND BASEBALL,

340
00:15:47,938 --> 00:15:49,673
THEY'RE THE THREE MOST
BEAUTIFULLY DESIGNED THINGS

341
00:15:49,673 --> 00:15:51,408
THIS CULTURE HAS EVER PRODUCED.

342
00:15:51,408 --> 00:15:53,143
AND YOU SORT OF LAUGH AND GO,

343
00:15:53,143 --> 00:15:54,444
YEAH, THOSE ARE THREE
GREAT AMERICAN THINGS,

344
00:15:54,878 --> 00:15:56,179
AND YOU SORT OF GO ON.

345
00:15:56,179 --> 00:16:00,517
BUT THEN, I DEFY YOU
TO TRY TO FIND OTHERS

346
00:16:00,517 --> 00:16:03,119
THAT ARE EQUAL TO THAT

347
00:16:03,119 --> 00:16:07,023
IN THEIR TRUE, UTTER
INNER SIGNIFICANCE.

348
00:16:07,023 --> 00:16:10,927
AND THINK ABOUT THEM --
FOUR PIECES OF PARCHMENT PAPER

349
00:16:10,927 --> 00:16:13,530
WRITTEN AT THE END
OF THE 18TH CENTURY,

350
00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:14,831
ABLE TO ADJUDICATE

351
00:16:14,831 --> 00:16:17,000
THE MOST COMPLICATED
AND THORNY PROBLEMS

352
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,735
OF THE LATE 20th CENTURY.

353
00:16:18,735 --> 00:16:21,338
YOU GOT A SIMPLE CHILDREN'S
STICK-AND-BALL GAME

354
00:16:21,338 --> 00:16:24,808
THAT HAS INFINITE
BALLET-LIKE COMBINATIONS,

355
00:16:24,808 --> 00:16:26,109
AND YOU'VE GOT THIS MUSIC,

356
00:16:26,543 --> 00:16:28,712
THE ONLY ART FORM
EVER INVENTED BY AMERICANS,

357
00:16:28,712 --> 00:16:30,881
AT WHOSE HEART IS IMPROVISATION.

358
00:16:30,881 --> 00:16:33,917
THAT IS THE AMERICAN GENIUS --
WE DO THINGS ON THE FLY.

359
00:16:33,917 --> 00:16:36,520
THOMAS JEFFERSON SAID
"THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS,"

360
00:16:36,953 --> 00:16:39,122
HE DIDN'T SAY "HAPPINESS,"
HE SAID THE PURSUIT OF IT.

361
00:16:39,122 --> 00:16:42,592
IT MEANT WE WERE ALWAYS
IN THE PROCESS OF BECOMING.

362
00:16:43,026 --> 00:16:44,761
THAT'S OUR GENIUS AS A PEOPLE.

363
00:16:44,761 --> 00:16:46,930
TO ME, I THINK
THAT THE REASON WHY THESE

364
00:16:46,930 --> 00:16:51,268
ARE THE VALUABLE MILESTONES
IN HUMAN EXISTENCE

365
00:16:51,268 --> 00:16:54,304
IS BECAUSE THERE IS SOME LARGER
EMOTIONAL COMPONENT TO THEM,

366
00:16:54,304 --> 00:16:56,473
THEY AREN'T JUST
THE SUM OF THEIR PARTS.

367
00:16:56,473 --> 00:16:59,075
AND THIS OTHER EMOTIONAL PART
IS WHAT WE'RE AFTER.

368
00:16:59,509 --> 00:17:02,112
WHY NOT HAVE A HISTORY
THAT'S LIKE THAT?

369
00:17:02,112 --> 00:17:04,281
WHY NOT HAVE A VISUAL
HISTORY THAT'S LIKE THAT?

370
00:17:04,281 --> 00:17:05,582
WHY NOT BE ABLE
TO HEAR THE WORDS

371
00:17:05,582 --> 00:17:08,618
AS WELL AS READ THEM?

372
00:17:08,618 --> 00:17:11,655
WHY NOT BE ABLE TO SEE
THE MINCING STEPS

373
00:17:11,655 --> 00:17:14,691
IS THE HISTORY YOU DON'T KNOW."

374
00:17:14,691 --> 00:17:17,727
THESE TINY LEGS ON TOP
OF THIS BARREL-CHESTED BODY?

375
00:17:17,727 --> 00:17:19,462
WHY NOT LOOK
INTO JACKIE ROBINSON'S FACE

376
00:17:19,462 --> 00:17:21,197
AND SEE WHAT
HE HAD TO EXPERIENCE?

377
00:17:21,197 --> 00:17:25,535
WHY NOT TALK
ABOUT WHAT HE HAD TO DO,

378
00:17:25,535 --> 00:17:27,270
THAN JUST READ THE STATISTICS

379
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:29,439
ON HIS PLAQUE
IN THE HALL OF FAME?

380
00:17:29,439 --> 00:17:31,608
THIS IS A DIFFERENT KIND
OF HISTORY,

381
00:17:31,608 --> 00:17:35,078
BUT I THINK IT'S ONE
THAT GOES BENEATH THE SKIN

382
00:17:35,078 --> 00:17:38,982
AND GETS INTO PEOPLE,
AND THAT'S THE ONLY ONE FOR ME.

383
00:17:38,982 --> 00:17:40,717
DESCRIBE FOR US, IF YOU WILL,

384
00:17:40,717 --> 00:17:43,753
WHAT THAT ALCHEMY IS
THAT YOU USE.

385
00:17:43,753 --> 00:17:45,488
WELL, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S NOT A PRIMER,

386
00:17:45,922 --> 00:17:49,392
AND I'VE GOT LOTS OF SECRETS
THAT I'M WILLING TO SHARE.

387
00:17:49,392 --> 00:17:51,561
I MEAN, HOW YOU SHOOT ARCHIVES,

388
00:17:51,561 --> 00:17:53,296
WHERE YOU JUST DON'T
HOLD THEM AT ARM'S LENGTH,

389
00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:55,031
YOU SORT OF GO IN

390
00:17:55,031 --> 00:17:59,369
AND YOU LISTEN
TO THE OLD PHOTOGRAPH.

391
00:17:59,369 --> 00:18:00,670
WHAT'S THE SOUND OF THE CANNON?

392
00:18:01,104 --> 00:18:02,839
OR THE BIRDS CHIRPING?

393
00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:04,574
THE LEAVES IN THE TREES

394
00:18:05,008 --> 00:18:07,177
OF THAT PHOTOGRAPH
TAKEN IN 1863 HAVE A SOUND.

395
00:18:07,177 --> 00:18:08,478
DO THEY RUSTLE?

396
00:18:08,478 --> 00:18:10,647
WHAT'S THE DUST SOUND LIKE?

397
00:18:10,647 --> 00:18:12,816
AND THAT'S THE WAY I LOOK,
AND I DO IT,

398
00:18:12,816 --> 00:18:15,418
I SIMPLY LOOK THROUGH MY CAMERA
AND SHOOT AND FIND THE CLOSE-UP

399
00:18:15,418 --> 00:18:17,153
AND THE NEW STORIES.

400
00:18:17,153 --> 00:18:19,756
MY WORK IS NOT JUST INTERESTED

401
00:18:19,756 --> 00:18:23,226
IN THE DRY DATES AND FACTS
AND EVENTS OF THE PAST,

402
00:18:23,226 --> 00:18:24,961
BUT IN THE EMOTIONAL
ARCHAEOLOGY,

403
00:18:25,395 --> 00:18:27,564
AND I HAVE CALLED MYSELF
AN EMOTIONAL ARCHAEOLOGIST

404
00:18:27,564 --> 00:18:30,166
BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT
THAT'S THE GLUE

405
00:18:30,166 --> 00:18:34,504
THAT MAKES THESE COMPLEX
PAST EVENTS STICK

406
00:18:34,504 --> 00:18:36,239
IN OUR MINDS
AND IN OUR HEARTS

407
00:18:36,239 --> 00:18:38,408
AND PERMANENTLY A PART
OF WHO WE ARE NOW.

408
00:18:38,408 --> 00:18:40,143
THE BIG MISTAKE IS THAT
HISTORY IS BACK THEN,

409
00:18:40,143 --> 00:18:42,312
THE PAST IS GONE.

410
00:18:42,312 --> 00:18:44,047
HISTORY IS RIGHT NOW.

411
00:18:44,047 --> 00:18:46,650
"HISTORY IS 'IS,' NOT 'WAS,'"
WILLIAM FAULKNER SAID.

412
00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:49,686
AND WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT
WE'RE NEVER GOING TO CHANGE

413
00:18:49,686 --> 00:18:52,722
WHAT HAPPENED
ON THE THIRD DAY OF GETTYSBURG

414
00:18:52,722 --> 00:18:55,325
WHEN PICKETT LAUNCHED
HIS ILL-FATED CHARGE,

415
00:18:55,325 --> 00:18:59,229
BUT THE WAY WE ENGAGE
OUR QUESTIONS NOW ABOUT IT

416
00:18:59,663 --> 00:19:02,265
TELLS WHO WE ARE RIGHT NOW,
AND THAT'S A GREAT THING.

417
00:19:02,265 --> 00:19:05,301
YOU'RE VERY PASSIONATE
ABOUT THIS, AREN'T YOU?

418
00:19:05,301 --> 00:19:07,904
YEAH, WELL,
I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

419
00:19:07,904 --> 00:19:13,109
HARRY TRUMAN SAID, "THE ONLY
THING THAT'S REALLY NEW

420
00:19:13,109 --> 00:19:14,844
AND YOU JUST
SORT OF SLOUGH IT OFF.

421
00:19:14,844 --> 00:19:16,579
I MEAN, FOR MOST PEOPLE,

422
00:19:16,579 --> 00:19:20,050
HISTORY IS JUST ANOTHER SUBJECT
IN THE CURRICULUM

423
00:19:20,050 --> 00:19:23,086
AND YOU FORGET
THAT IT IS THE PAGEANT

424
00:19:23,086 --> 00:19:27,424
OF EVERYTHING THAT HAS GONE
BEFORE THIS MOMENT.

425
00:19:27,424 --> 00:19:28,725
THIS MOMENT.

426
00:19:29,159 --> 00:19:31,327
EVERYTHING BEFORE THAT
IS HISTORY,

427
00:19:31,327 --> 00:19:33,496
AND THAT CHANGES IT A BIT.

428
00:19:33,930 --> 00:19:36,099
YOUR PIECES CAN RUN LONG.

429
00:19:36,533 --> 00:19:38,702
THEY TAKE THEIR TIME.

430
00:19:39,135 --> 00:19:40,437
THIS IS THE AGE OF FAST CUTS.

431
00:19:40,437 --> 00:19:42,172
HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

432
00:19:42,172 --> 00:19:44,340
WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE --

433
00:19:44,340 --> 00:19:45,642
WE'RE NOT TRAINED FOR THAT.

434
00:19:46,076 --> 00:19:48,678
NO, WE'RE NOT, AND I GET INTO
A LOT OF PROBLEMS

435
00:19:48,678 --> 00:19:50,847
AND SOMETIMES YOU GET CRITICS
WHO YOU CAN JUST TELL

436
00:19:50,847 --> 00:19:54,751
HAVE SAT DOWN WITH
18 1/2 HOURS OF "BASEBALL"

437
00:19:55,185 --> 00:19:58,221
AND ARE PISSED OFF, YOU KNOW?

438
00:19:58,221 --> 00:19:59,089
18 1/2 HOURS?

439
00:19:59,089 --> 00:20:01,257
I'M GOING TO WRITE
THE SAME LENGTH COLUMN

440
00:20:01,257 --> 00:20:03,426
FOR 18 1/2 HOURS
AS I AM FOR THE SITUATION COMEDY

441
00:20:03,860 --> 00:20:09,933
THAT'S 1/2 AN HOUR
MINUS THE AD BREAKS.

442
00:20:09,933 --> 00:20:13,403
BUT WE REALIZE,
I THINK, IN THE END,

443
00:20:13,403 --> 00:20:16,439
THAT ALL MEANING ACCRUES
IN DURATION.

444
00:20:16,439 --> 00:20:19,042
THE THINGS THAT
WE ARE ALL PROUDEST OF,

445
00:20:19,042 --> 00:20:22,078
THE WORK WE'VE DONE,
THE RELATIONSHIPS WE HAVE,

446
00:20:22,078 --> 00:20:23,379
OCCUR IN DURATION.

447
00:20:23,813 --> 00:20:26,416
IT'S THE THING THAT WE'VE GIVEN
OUR BEST ATTENTION TO,

448
00:20:26,416 --> 00:20:27,717
AND WE REALIZE, IN THE END,

449
00:20:27,717 --> 00:20:30,320
THE ONLY THING WE HAVE
IS OUR ATTENTION.

450
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,055
SO I'M LOOKING TO TRY
TO CREATE SOMETHING

451
00:20:32,055 --> 00:20:33,790
THAT REMINDS PEOPLE OF THAT.

452
00:20:33,790 --> 00:20:36,826
WE KNOW THAT THE HUMAN EYE,
THE HUMAN BODY,

453
00:20:37,260 --> 00:20:41,598
PHYSIOLOGICALLY CAN RECEIVE
AN IMAGE AND READ IT

454
00:20:42,031 --> 00:20:43,767
IN A FRACTION OF A SECOND --

455
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,237
MTV TELLS US THAT ALL THE TIME,
BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

456
00:20:47,237 --> 00:20:48,538
WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

457
00:20:48,538 --> 00:20:50,273
DOES IT HAVE MEANING AT ALL?

458
00:20:50,273 --> 00:20:51,141
AND I'M SUGGESTING
THAT IT DOESN'T,

459
00:20:51,141 --> 00:20:52,008
AND THE FOOTFALLS.
THE DOOR SLAMS.

460
00:20:52,008 --> 00:20:53,309
THAT SOMETIMES, IF YOU SAY,

461
00:20:53,743 --> 00:20:55,478
LOOK AT THIS --
NO, NO, NO, DON'T CUT,

462
00:20:55,478 --> 00:20:58,948
LOOK, HOLD, HOLD --

463
00:20:58,948 --> 00:21:01,985
THAT MEANING ACCRUES
IN SOME SORT OF DURATION.

464
00:21:01,985 --> 00:21:06,756
YOU HAVE STATED
THAT YOUR MOTHER'S DEATH

465
00:21:06,756 --> 00:21:08,491
HAD A PROFOUND EFFECT ON YOU.

466
00:21:08,925 --> 00:21:11,094
WHAT WAS THAT EFFECT?
IF YOU COULD SHARE THAT.

467
00:21:11,094 --> 00:21:13,263
MY MOTHER HAD CANCER, I MEAN,
IT'S A STORY THAT'S REPLAYED

468
00:21:13,263 --> 00:21:15,865
IN MILLIONS AND MILLIONS
OF AMERICAN FAMILIES.

469
00:21:15,865 --> 00:21:19,769
THERE WASN'T A MOMENT
WHEN I WASN'T AWARE, AS A CHILD,

470
00:21:20,203 --> 00:21:22,806
THAT MY MOTHER WAS SICK
AND POSSIBLY DYING.

471
00:21:22,806 --> 00:21:25,408
SO THAT IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND,
A CHILDHOOD

472
00:21:25,408 --> 00:21:31,047
THAT IS COLORED BY THAT
OVERHANGING, IMMINENT TRAGEDY.

473
00:21:31,047 --> 00:21:34,951
SO FROM 3 ON, TILL 11,
ALMOST 12, WHEN SHE DIED,

474
00:21:35,385 --> 00:21:42,325
THIS WAS THE OPERATING VIBE
OF MY FAMILY.

475
00:21:42,325 --> 00:21:44,928
AND A SOCIOLOGIST
WAS INTERVIEWING ME RECENTLY

476
00:21:44,928 --> 00:21:46,663
FOR A BOOK ABOUT PEOPLE

477
00:21:46,663 --> 00:21:49,699
WHO HAD LOST THEIR PARENTS
AS CHILDREN,

478
00:21:49,699 --> 00:21:53,169
AND AT THE END OF IT,
SHE ASKED ME THIS QUESTION,

479
00:21:53,169 --> 00:21:55,338
AND IT SURPRISED ME, MY ANSWER.

480
00:21:55,338 --> 00:21:57,941
SHE SAID, "WHAT IS YOUR MOTHER'S
GREATEST GIFT TO YOU?"

481
00:21:57,941 --> 00:22:04,447
AND I INSTANTANEOUSLY SAID,
"DYING," AND STARTED TO CRY.

482
00:22:04,447 --> 00:22:07,483
AND I REALIZED THAT
THAT WAS THE TRUTH,

483
00:22:07,483 --> 00:22:10,086
THAT IT WAS, FOR THE FIRST TIME,

484
00:22:10,086 --> 00:22:12,689
ALMOST 35 YEARS
AFTER SHE HAD DIED,

485
00:22:12,689 --> 00:22:15,725
I HAD COME TO THE VERY PAINFUL
BUT OBVIOUS FACT

486
00:22:15,725 --> 00:22:19,629
THAT HAVING DIED
MADE ME WHO I AM

487
00:22:19,629 --> 00:22:21,364
IN NOT JUST BAD WAYS,
AS ONE WOULD SAY,

488
00:22:21,364 --> 00:22:23,099
BUT IN GOOD WAYS, TOO.

489
00:22:23,099 --> 00:22:26,135
SO IN SOME WAYS,
AMIDST ALL THE TRAGEDY,

490
00:22:26,135 --> 00:22:30,039
AND I DON'T MEAN TO SAY
I'M GLAD SHE DIED, OBVIOUSLY,

491
00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:36,112
THAT THAT EVENT WAS A GIFT,
A KIND OF CHALLENGE

492
00:22:36,112 --> 00:22:39,582
TO HAVE A LIFE THAT WOULD NOW
BE INEXORABLY CHANGED,

493
00:22:39,582 --> 00:22:41,317
BY DISEASE AND THEN DEATH,

494
00:22:41,751 --> 00:22:43,486
BUT ONE NEVERTHELESS,

495
00:22:43,486 --> 00:22:46,956
FROM WHICH CERTAIN POSSIBILITIES
WOULD THEN EXIST,

496
00:22:46,956 --> 00:22:48,691
AND HOW WOULD I TAKE
THOSE POSSIBILITIES

497
00:22:48,691 --> 00:22:50,426
AND MAKE SOMETHING OF IT?

498
00:22:50,426 --> 00:22:52,595
WERE YOU ABLE TO EXPRESS
YOUR EMOTIONS?

499
00:22:52,595 --> 00:22:55,198
WAS IT AN EMOTIONAL HOME LIFE?

500
00:22:55,632 --> 00:22:59,102
I THINK YES AND NO.

501
00:22:59,102 --> 00:23:01,704
I CERTAINLY FIND THAT THERE IS

502
00:23:01,704 --> 00:23:06,476
SOME EXTRAORDINARILY
THERAPEUTIC RELEASE

503
00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:08,645
IN THE EMOTIONALISM OF MY FILMS.

504
00:23:08,645 --> 00:23:12,982
I LOVE THE CATHARTIC CLEANSING
THAT DEALING WITH SADNESS IS.

505
00:23:12,982 --> 00:23:14,717
I REMEMBER THAT I USED TO WEEP

506
00:23:14,717 --> 00:23:16,886
EVERY TIME WE GOT TO
OUR NINTH EPISODE OF "BASEBALL"

507
00:23:16,886 --> 00:23:18,187
IN THE EDITING ROOM,

508
00:23:18,187 --> 00:23:19,923
EVEN WHEN IT WAS UNFORMED
AND PRETTY BAD,

509
00:23:19,923 --> 00:23:22,091
AT JACKIE ROBINSON'S FUNERAL.

510
00:23:22,091 --> 00:23:25,995
AND I REALIZED, FINALLY,
AFTER A WHILE -- I MISSED HIM.

511
00:23:25,995 --> 00:23:27,730
I MISSED HIM,
A MAN I NEVER KNEW.

512
00:23:28,164 --> 00:23:30,333
I HAD GOTTEN TO KNOW HIM,
IT WAS JUST LIKE LINCOLN.

513
00:23:30,333 --> 00:23:32,068
THERE WAS A MOMENT,

514
00:23:32,068 --> 00:23:33,803
THE MOST POWERFUL MOMENT
OF WORKING ON "THE CIVIL WAR."

515
00:23:33,803 --> 00:23:35,538
IT WASN'T DONE,
IT WAS IN THE MIX

516
00:23:35,538 --> 00:23:38,574
OF THE LAST EPISODE OF THE FILM,

517
00:23:38,574 --> 00:23:41,177
AND WE WERE DOING
THE ASSASSINATION SCENE

518
00:23:41,177 --> 00:23:42,478
AT FORD'S THEATRE

519
00:23:42,478 --> 00:23:45,081
AND WE HAD A VERY COMPLICATED

520
00:23:45,081 --> 00:23:48,117
AND LAYERED, TEXTURED
SOUND EFFECTS TRACK.

521
00:23:48,551 --> 00:23:52,021
25 SEPARATE TRACKS THAT NOW
HAD TO BE MELDED INTO ONE

522
00:23:52,021 --> 00:23:55,491
IN A VERY COMPLICATED
AND EXPENSIVE PROCESS FOR US

523
00:23:55,491 --> 00:23:57,226
AND IT HAD BEEN GOING ON
FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS AND WEEKS.

524
00:23:57,660 --> 00:23:58,962
AND FINALLY, WE WERE
IN THIS LAST EPISODE

525
00:23:59,395 --> 00:24:00,697
AND IT WAS ALMOST CHRISTMAS --

526
00:24:00,697 --> 00:24:03,299
WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE
WEEKS BEFORE.

527
00:24:03,299 --> 00:24:06,336
AND WE LAID IN THE TINNY SOUND
OF THE PLAY THAT WAS GOING ON,

528
00:24:06,336 --> 00:24:08,071
"OUR AMERICAN COUSIN."

529
00:24:08,071 --> 00:24:10,673
WELL, YOU'VE ALWAYS SEEMED SURE
OF HITTING YOUR MARK.

530
00:24:10,673 --> 00:24:12,408
THE AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
THAT WE ADDED IN,

531
00:24:12,408 --> 00:24:14,143
WE HAD OUR OWN MUSIC GOING ON,

532
00:24:14,143 --> 00:24:16,312
WE HAD THE NARRATOR DESCRIBING
THE INEXORABLE MOVEMENT

533
00:24:16,312 --> 00:24:18,481
TOWARDS THE PRESIDENTIAL BOX.

534
00:24:18,481 --> 00:24:21,951
BOOTH SWALLOWED TWO BRANDIES
AT A NEARBY BAR,

535
00:24:21,951 --> 00:24:24,554
THEN RETURNED TO THE THEATER.

536
00:24:24,554 --> 00:24:26,723
HE WAITED FOR
THE LAUGHTER TO RISE,

537
00:24:26,723 --> 00:24:30,626
THEN SLIPPED SILENTLY
INTO THE PRESIDENT'S BOX.

538
00:24:31,060 --> 00:24:32,795
AUGUSTA, DEAR.

539
00:24:32,795 --> 00:24:34,964
HE HELD A DAGGER
IN HIS LEFT HAND,

540
00:24:34,964 --> 00:24:37,567
A DERRINGER PISTOL IN HIS RIGHT.

541
00:24:37,567 --> 00:24:41,471
THE NASTY BEAST.

542
00:24:41,471 --> 00:24:46,676
SIR, YOUR VULGARITY
RENDERS YOU INTOLERABLE

543
00:24:46,676 --> 00:24:51,014
IN POLITE SOCIETY.

544
00:24:51,014 --> 00:24:52,749
WE LAID EVERYTHING DOWN,

545
00:24:52,749 --> 00:24:54,917
NOW IT WAS TIME TO GO BACK
AND ADD THE GUNSHOTS.

546
00:24:54,917 --> 00:24:57,086
SO THE MIXER WENT BACK
AND WE'RE MOVING TOWARDS,

547
00:24:57,086 --> 00:24:59,689
AND I REMEMBER ONE OF
MY CO-WORKERS LOOKED AT ME

548
00:24:59,689 --> 00:25:00,990
AND HER EYES WERE BRIGHT

549
00:25:00,990 --> 00:25:02,725
AND I SUDDENLY JUST REALIZED
WHAT WAS GOING ON.

550
00:25:02,725 --> 00:25:04,460
I YELLED, "STOP!"

551
00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:06,195
AND THE MIXER HIT THE BUTTON
AND THIS THING JUST SLOWED DOWN,

552
00:25:06,629 --> 00:25:07,930
BOOM, BOOM, BOOM,

553
00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:10,533
JUST TO THE MOMENT
BEFORE THE GUNSHOTS CAME.

554
00:25:10,533 --> 00:25:13,569
AND WITH $500 OR $600
OR $700 BUCKS AN HOUR

555
00:25:13,569 --> 00:25:16,606
GOING THROUGH THE METER,
WE JUST LOOKED AT EACH OTHER,

556
00:25:16,606 --> 00:25:18,341
WE JUST STOPPED.

557
00:25:18,775 --> 00:25:21,811
AND FOR A MOMENT, WITH TEARS
STREAMING DOWN OUR FACES

558
00:25:22,245 --> 00:25:25,715
IN RECOGNITION OF ALL THE EFFORT
OVER 5 1/2 YEARS WE HAD PUT OUT

559
00:25:25,715 --> 00:25:29,185
BUT ALSO FOR THE POWER
WE HAD AS FILMMAKERS --

560
00:25:29,619 --> 00:25:32,221
WE KEPT ABRAHAM LINCOLN
ALIVE, ALIVE.

561
00:25:32,221 --> 00:25:33,956
AND WE JUST LOOKED AT EACH OTHER

562
00:25:33,956 --> 00:25:35,691
AND THEN EVERYBODY LOOKED AT ME
AND I NODDED.

563
00:25:35,691 --> 00:25:40,029
HE BACKED UP, WE KILLED LINCOLN,

564
00:25:40,029 --> 00:25:42,198
AND THEN FINISHED THE FILM

565
00:25:42,198 --> 00:25:43,933
AND WENT HOME FOR CHRISTMAS.

566
00:25:43,933 --> 00:25:46,969
AND I WILL NEVER FORGET
THE POWER OF THAT MOMENT,

567
00:25:46,969 --> 00:25:52,175
WHEN, FOR JUST A BRIEF SECOND,
WE ALL KEPT HIM ALIVE.

568
00:25:53,425 --> 00:25:56,194
AND THAT'S WHY
I'M DOING THIS JOB.

569
00:25:59,047 --> 00:26:01,215
THERE IS, I GUESS,
IN MY OWN LIFE,

570
00:26:01,215 --> 00:26:04,252
BEFORE "THE CIVIL WAR"
AND AFTER "THE CIVIL WAR."

571
00:26:04,252 --> 00:26:05,987
WHEN YOU BECOME
A DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER

572
00:26:05,987 --> 00:26:09,023
YOU TAKE A VOW
OF ANONYMITY AND POVERTY.

573
00:26:09,023 --> 00:26:10,758
AND THOUGH THE EARLIER FILMS

574
00:26:10,758 --> 00:26:13,795
HAD ACHIEVED
A MEASURE OF SUCCESS AND AWARDS

575
00:26:13,795 --> 00:26:19,434
AND NICE REVIEWS THAT
SURPRISED ME AND STARTLED ME,

576
00:26:19,434 --> 00:26:22,470
NOTHING COMPARED TO THE RESPONSE
TO "THE CIVIL WAR."

577
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:24,639
AND IT CHANGED EVERYTHING.

578
00:26:24,639 --> 00:26:26,374
IF YOU GO TO GETTYSBURG,

579
00:26:26,374 --> 00:26:28,976
THEY'LL TELL YOU THAT
ATTENDANCE IS UP 200%, 300%

580
00:26:28,976 --> 00:26:34,615
SINCE THAT FILM CAME OUT,
AND OTHER THINGS,

581
00:26:35,049 --> 00:26:37,218
MOVIES AND BOOKS
ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR.

582
00:26:37,218 --> 00:26:41,122
SO WE'VE, AS A COUNTRY,
REKINDLED AN INTEREST.

583
00:26:41,122 --> 00:26:44,158
I HAVE A HARD TIME
DOING AN INTERVIEW NOW

584
00:26:44,158 --> 00:26:46,761
WITHOUT SOMEONE HAVING
IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS,

585
00:26:46,761 --> 00:26:50,231
EITHER PLAINLY ADMITTED
OR AS A CLOUD,

586
00:26:50,231 --> 00:26:52,834
WHETHER THEY'RE THE NEXT
SHELBY FOOTE.

587
00:26:53,267 --> 00:26:55,002
AS WE GO TO AN ARCHIVE NOW,

588
00:26:55,002 --> 00:26:58,906
PEOPLE START COMING TO
THAT ARCHIVE IN A SMALL TOWN

589
00:26:58,906 --> 00:27:00,208
WITH MORE MATERIAL.

590
00:27:00,641 --> 00:27:01,509
THEY WANT TO SHARE THIS.

591
00:27:01,509 --> 00:27:03,244
I THINK WHAT HAPPENED

592
00:27:03,244 --> 00:27:06,280
IS THAT FOR TOO LONG
THE DOCUMENTARY ENJOYED

593
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,015
A KIND OF SECOND CLASS STATUS.

594
00:27:08,015 --> 00:27:09,751
IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE

595
00:27:09,751 --> 00:27:12,787
AN ENTERTAINING OR AS EMOTIONAL
AS A FEATURE FILM.

596
00:27:12,787 --> 00:27:14,956
IT WAS CASTOR OIL, YOU KNOW,
IT WAS BROCCOLI.

597
00:27:15,390 --> 00:27:16,691
SOMETHING THAT WAS GOOD FOR YOU

598
00:27:17,125 --> 00:27:18,860
BUT MOST PEOPLE
DIDN'T THINK GOOD-TASTING.

599
00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:21,462
AND IT WAS SOMETHING YOU TOOK
BY HOLDING YOUR NOSE.

600
00:27:22,330 --> 00:27:24,932
AND OTHER DOCUMENTARIES
REMIND US

601
00:27:25,366 --> 00:27:30,138
IS THAT THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY
THAT WE HAVE NOT USED

602
00:27:30,138 --> 00:27:32,740
THE FULL BRAIN
OF THE DOCUMENTARY,

603
00:27:33,174 --> 00:27:35,343
WE HAVEN'T ENGAGED
ALL ITS PARTS,

604
00:27:35,343 --> 00:27:38,379
AND THAT EMBEDDED IN IT
IS THE POSSIBILITY

605
00:27:38,379 --> 00:27:39,680
OF SOMETHING AS ENTERTAINING,

606
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,151
AS MOVING
AS THE SO-CALLED FEATURE FILM,

607
00:27:43,584 --> 00:27:46,187
THE INVENTED FILM,
THE FICTION FILM,

608
00:27:46,187 --> 00:27:48,790
THAT IN THE END,
AS SHELBY ONCE TOLD TO ME,

609
00:27:48,790 --> 00:27:50,525
GOD IS THE GREATEST DRAMATIST.

610
00:27:50,525 --> 00:27:52,693
AND NOTHING
COULD BE MORE DRAMATIC

611
00:27:52,693 --> 00:27:55,296
THAN TELLING THINGS
AS THEY HAPPENED.

612
00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:57,899
NOT JUST IN BIOGRAPHICAL WAYS,

613
00:27:57,899 --> 00:28:00,935
NOT JUST WITH, YOU KNOW,
THE GREAT MEN OF HISTORY,

614
00:28:00,935 --> 00:28:03,971
BUT AS THE CIVIL WAR SHOWED US,
FROM THE BOTTOM UP --

615
00:28:03,971 --> 00:28:07,442
THE GRUNTS WHO ACTUALLY
DID THE FIGHTING AND THE DYING,

616
00:28:07,442 --> 00:28:10,478
THE TOWNS THAT DID THE LOSING
AND THE SUFFERING,

617
00:28:10,912 --> 00:28:14,382
THE WIVES AND THE CHILDREN
WHO WERE FOREVER TRANSFORMED

618
00:28:14,382 --> 00:28:16,984
IN WAYS THAT WOULD ALTER
AMERICA'S SOCIAL HISTORY.

619
00:28:16,984 --> 00:28:20,888
AND OF COURSE, IN THE STORY,
THE ON-GOING STORY,

620
00:28:20,888 --> 00:28:25,226
OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STRUGGLES
AS THIS WAR CHANGED WHO WE ARE.

621
00:28:28,262 --> 00:28:30,865
THERE IS NOT A DAY THAT GOES BY
WHEN I DO NOT GET A LETTER

622
00:28:30,865 --> 00:28:34,335
FROM SOMEONE
ABOUT "THE CIVIL WAR" SERIES.

623
00:28:34,335 --> 00:28:36,938
IT'S NOW 12 YEARS OUT,

624
00:28:36,938 --> 00:28:40,408
AND PEOPLE ARE WRITING ABOUT
THE SULLIVAN BALLOU LETTER,

625
00:28:40,408 --> 00:28:42,577
FROM AUSTRALIA AND FROM ENGLAND

626
00:28:42,577 --> 00:28:44,312
AS WELL AS
FROM THE UNITED STATES,

627
00:28:44,312 --> 00:28:46,481
FROM CANADA, AND MEXICO.

628
00:28:46,481 --> 00:28:49,517
PEOPLE ARE SENDING ME
PHOTOGRAPHS OF THEIR RELATIVES

629
00:28:49,517 --> 00:28:52,553
AND THEY'RE ASKING
IF WE CAN HELP THEM

630
00:28:52,553 --> 00:28:55,156
IN CERTAIN
GENEALOGICAL QUESTIONS.

631
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:58,192
PEOPLE ARE CURIOUS ABOUT
WHETHER A PICTURE IN THE FILM

632
00:28:58,192 --> 00:28:59,927
IS THEIR GREAT-GREAT
GRANDFATHER,

633
00:28:59,927 --> 00:29:02,964
OR DID I KNOW ABOUT
THE REGIMENTAL HISTORY?

634
00:29:02,964 --> 00:29:05,132
OR SCOLDING ME ABOUT
LEAVING A BATTLE OUT,

635
00:29:05,132 --> 00:29:07,301
WHICH IS EXACTLY
WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN.

636
00:29:07,301 --> 00:29:09,904
JUST AS IN "JAZZ"
AND "BASEBALL" AND "CIVIL WAR,"

637
00:29:09,904 --> 00:29:12,073
I NEED TO BE SCOLDED

638
00:29:12,073 --> 00:29:15,543
FOR ALL THE HUNDREDS
OF MILLIONS OF EVENTS

639
00:29:15,543 --> 00:29:18,579
THAT INEVITABLY
FALL BY THE WAYSIDE.

640
00:29:18,579 --> 00:29:20,314
BUT WHAT IT SAID IS THAT

641
00:29:20,314 --> 00:29:23,351
WE WERE STARVED FOR A KIND OF
NATIONAL SELF DEFINITION,

642
00:29:23,351 --> 00:29:26,821
THAT THE CIVIL WAR WAS NO LONGER
GOING TO BE THE PROVINCE

643
00:29:26,821 --> 00:29:28,556
OF THE "BIRTH OF A NATION" CROWD

644
00:29:28,556 --> 00:29:30,291
OR THE
"GONE WITH THE WIND" CROWD,

645
00:29:30,291 --> 00:29:32,026
IT WAS NOT
GOING TO BE APPROPRIATED

646
00:29:32,026 --> 00:29:34,629
ONLY FROM JUST
A SOUTHERN POINT OF VIEW,

647
00:29:34,629 --> 00:29:38,099
BUT WE COULD SEE IT
AS THE TRULY SYMBOLIC EVENT

648
00:29:38,099 --> 00:29:41,135
THAT RE-REUNITED OUR COUNTRY,

649
00:29:41,569 --> 00:29:44,605
THAT MADE US TRULY
THE UNITED STATES.

650
00:29:44,605 --> 00:29:48,075
YOU KNOW, BEFORE THE WAR
WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT OUR COUNTRY,

651
00:29:48,075 --> 00:29:51,979
PEOPLE WOULD SAY
"THE UNITED STATES <i>ARE" --</i>

652
00:29:51,979 --> 00:29:55,883
PLURAL, THEY SAW US AS A UNION,
A COLLECTION OF THE STATES.

653
00:29:55,883 --> 00:29:59,787
BUT AFTER THE CIVIL WAR
WE BEGAN TO SPEAK OF A NATION,

654
00:29:59,787 --> 00:30:03,257
SOMETHING, A WORD THAT
ABRAHAM LINCOLN USED,

655
00:30:03,257 --> 00:30:04,559
A ONE THING.

656
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:05,860
AND AFTER THE CIVIL WAR,

657
00:30:05,860 --> 00:30:08,029
WHETHER WE SOLVED THE QUESTION
OF RACE OR NOT,

658
00:30:08,462 --> 00:30:09,330
WHICH WE CLEARLY DIDN'T DO --

659
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:11,499
WHETHER WE TRULY UNITED PEOPLE

660
00:30:11,499 --> 00:30:12,800
BASED ON THE CULTURAL
DIFFERENCES,

661
00:30:13,234 --> 00:30:14,535
NORTH AND SOUTH --

662
00:30:14,535 --> 00:30:17,138
WHETHER THE UNFINISHED BUSINESS
OF THE CIVIL WAR

663
00:30:17,138 --> 00:30:18,439
IS STILL GOING ON,

664
00:30:18,439 --> 00:30:20,174
WE NOW SAY
"THE UNITED STATES IS,"

665
00:30:20,174 --> 00:30:21,475
WHICH IN UNGRAMMATICAL.

666
00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:25,379
AND WHAT THAT WAR DID
WAS MAKE US A ONE THING,

667
00:30:25,379 --> 00:30:28,416
MAKE US AN "IS"
FOR BETTER AND FOR WORSE.

668
00:30:28,416 --> 00:30:31,018
AND I THINK THE FILM,
THE SERIES,

669
00:30:31,018 --> 00:30:33,187
TOUCHED A CHORD ABOUT THAT,

670
00:30:33,187 --> 00:30:34,922
AND IT REVERBERATES STILL,

671
00:30:34,922 --> 00:30:36,657
AND IT WILL REVERBERATE AS LONG
AS THERE'S A REPUBLIC.

672
00:30:36,657 --> 00:30:40,561
AND IT HAS NOTHING REALLY TO DO
WITH OUR SKILL AS FILMMAKERS

673
00:30:40,561 --> 00:30:44,465
AS MUCH AS IT DOES
TO THE POWER OF DOCUMENTARY

674
00:30:44,465 --> 00:30:46,200
TO REMIND US OF WHERE WE'VE BEEN

675
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,405
AND THE KIND OF STRANGE ALCHEMY
THAT TAKES PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY

676
00:30:51,405 --> 00:30:54,442
WHERE MANY THINGS
CAN BECOME ONE.

677
00:30:57,478 --> 00:31:00,514
WE'RE PRETTY MUCH
STILL A FAMILY.

678
00:31:00,514 --> 00:31:03,985
FAMILIES HAVE PEOPLE
GROW UP AND MOVE ON

679
00:31:03,985 --> 00:31:05,720
AND START THEIR OWN
FILM COMPANIES.

680
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,322
MY BROTHER WHO WAS
THE CO-PRODUCER OF THIS FILM

681
00:31:08,322 --> 00:31:11,792
HAS GONE ON TO MAKE SOME
EXTRAORDINARY FILMS ON HIS OWN.

682
00:31:11,792 --> 00:31:15,696
MANY OF THE EDITORS ARE
STILL AROUND, WORKING WITH US.

683
00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:18,733
BUT THEN WE'VE HOME GROWN
A LOT OF OTHER EDITORS

684
00:31:18,733 --> 00:31:22,203
WHO'VE GROWN UP ON "BASEBALL"
AND "JAZZ" AND OTHER FILMS

685
00:31:22,203 --> 00:31:23,938
AND MOVED ON.

686
00:31:23,938 --> 00:31:26,540
THE NUCLEUS IS STILL THE SAME.

687
00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:29,577
LYNN NOVICK
IS STILL A CO-PRODUCER.

688
00:31:29,577 --> 00:31:32,179
GEOFF WARD,
STILL WRITING THE SCRIPTS.

689
00:31:32,179 --> 00:31:33,481
BUDDY SQUIRES

690
00:31:33,481 --> 00:31:36,951
AND ALAN MOORE ARE STILL DOING
EXQUISITE CINEMATOGRAPHY.

691
00:31:36,951 --> 00:31:41,722
SUSANNA STEISEL STILL FINDING
THOSE STILL PHOTOGRAPHS.

692
00:31:42,156 --> 00:31:46,060
PAM BAUCOM AND BRENDA HEATH
AND PATTY LAWLOR

693
00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:49,096
ARE STILL RUNNING THE OFFICE.

694
00:31:49,096 --> 00:31:51,699
PAUL BARNES IS STILL EDITING.

695
00:31:52,133 --> 00:31:53,000
WE'RE PRETTY MUCH

696
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,169
STILL A FAMILY.

697
00:31:55,169 --> 00:31:58,639
AND EVERYBODY WHO'S WORKED
AND MOVED ON IS STILL A FRIEND

698
00:31:58,639 --> 00:32:00,374
AND WE'RE STILL CONSULTING.

699
00:32:00,374 --> 00:32:02,977
AND SOME MAY COME BACK
AND WORK FOR A FILM OR TWO

700
00:32:02,977 --> 00:32:05,579
AND THEN MOVE ON
TO SOMETHING ELSE.

701
00:32:05,579 --> 00:32:09,917
IN SOME WAYS WE HAVE OUR OWN
REUNIONS WITH EACH NEW FILM,

702
00:32:09,917 --> 00:32:11,218
THAT REMIND US
OF "THE CIVIL WAR"

703
00:32:11,218 --> 00:32:13,821
AND EVEN PROJECTS BEFORE THAT.

704
00:32:13,821 --> 00:32:16,857
BUT THE KIND OF EFFORT
THAT WENT INTO "THE CIVIL WAR,"

705
00:32:16,857 --> 00:32:20,761
I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER EQUALED
THE KIND OF PASSION

706
00:32:21,195 --> 00:32:22,496
AND THE KIND OF LOVE.

707
00:32:22,496 --> 00:32:25,533
OR WE'VE EQUALED IT --
WE'VE NEVER SURPASSED IT.

708
00:32:25,533 --> 00:32:29,870
THE SENSE OF BEING TOGETHER
AND WORKING ON A STORY

709
00:32:29,870 --> 00:32:33,340
AND FIGURING OUT SOMETHING
SO ABSOLUTELY COMPLEX

710
00:32:33,340 --> 00:32:35,509
WHERE YOU JUST BANG YOUR HEAD
AGAINST THE WALL

711
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:37,244
FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS,

712
00:32:37,244 --> 00:32:38,546
HOW AM I GOING
TO TELL THIS STORY?

713
00:32:38,546 --> 00:32:39,847
HOW DO WE REDUCE IT?

714
00:32:39,847 --> 00:32:42,883
HOW CAN WE DO JUSTICE TO IT?

715
00:32:42,883 --> 00:32:44,185
AND IF YOU WORK WITH THESE

716
00:32:44,185 --> 00:32:46,787
EXTRAORDINARY WRITERS
AND MUSICIANS,

717
00:32:46,787 --> 00:32:48,522
LET'S NOT FORGET THAT JAY UNGAR

718
00:32:48,522 --> 00:32:51,125
AND MOLLY MASON
AND MATT GLASER

719
00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:53,728
ARE STILL PLAYING
ON OUR SOUNDTRACKS

720
00:32:53,728 --> 00:32:55,896
AS THEY WERE 20 YEARS AGO.

721
00:32:55,896 --> 00:33:00,668
WHEN YOU WORK WITH
THESE CRAFTSMEN, CRAFTS PEOPLE,

722
00:33:00,668 --> 00:33:03,270
THE FILMS LAST.

723
00:33:06,741 --> 00:33:08,909
THE HIGHEST COMPLIMENT
I'VE EVER HAD

724
00:33:08,909 --> 00:33:10,644
IS WHEN I GAVE A SPEECH

725
00:33:10,644 --> 00:33:12,379
AT BOWDOIN COLLEGE
IN BRUNSWICK, MAINE.

726
00:33:12,379 --> 00:33:15,850
THAT WAS THE ALMA MATER
OF JOSHUA LAWRENCE CHAMBERLAIN,

727
00:33:15,850 --> 00:33:17,585
ON OF THE HEROES
OF "THE CIVIL WAR" FILM.

728
00:33:17,585 --> 00:33:19,754
AND THE PRESIDENT
OF BOWDOIN COLLEGE,

729
00:33:19,754 --> 00:33:21,489
AS CHAMBERLAIN LATER BECAME,

730
00:33:21,489 --> 00:33:24,091
BUT THE CONTEMPORARY SAID
"WE'RE HERE TONIGHT,"

731
00:33:24,525 --> 00:33:27,128
ON A COLD, COLD NIGHT AT
THE BEGINNING OF THE GULF WAR

732
00:33:27,128 --> 00:33:29,296
WHEN NO ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUT
IN THEIR RIGHT MIND,

733
00:33:29,296 --> 00:33:31,465
THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN
GLUED TO THE T.V. SET,

734
00:33:31,465 --> 00:33:32,767
FINDING OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON,

735
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,369
SEVERAL THOUSAND PEOPLE
WERE THERE TO TALK

736
00:33:35,369 --> 00:33:37,538
AND THINK ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR.

737
00:33:37,538 --> 00:33:40,574
HE SAID WE'RE THERE,
"WE'RE HERE BECAUSE WE WISH

738
00:33:40,574 --> 00:33:42,743
"TO CONTINUE
A CONVERSATION WITH KEN

739
00:33:42,743 --> 00:33:44,912
THAT WE ALREADY THINK
WE'VE BEEN HAVING."

740
00:33:44,912 --> 00:33:47,515
AND SO MY FILE CABINETS
ARE FILLED

741
00:33:47,515 --> 00:33:50,117
WITH THE THREADS
OF THE CONVERSATIONS.

742
00:33:50,117 --> 00:33:51,852
YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO TALK

743
00:33:51,852 --> 00:33:54,455
ABOUT DAVID McCULLOUGH'S VOICE
AS THE NARRATOR,

744
00:33:54,455 --> 00:33:57,925
THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT
THE SUPERB NARRATION WRITTEN BY,

745
00:33:57,925 --> 00:34:00,094
PRINCIPALLY WRITTEN
BY GEOFF WARD.

746
00:34:00,094 --> 00:34:02,263
THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT
THE CHOICE OF PICTURES

747
00:34:02,263 --> 00:34:04,865
AND THE MAGNIFICENT JOB
THAT THE EDITORS DID

748
00:34:04,865 --> 00:34:07,034
OR THE MUSICIANS
WHO PLAYED THAT.

749
00:34:07,034 --> 00:34:08,769
AND YOU BUMP INTO PEOPLE.

750
00:34:08,769 --> 00:34:11,372
I WAS AT
KATHARINE GRAHAM'S HOUSE

751
00:34:11,372 --> 00:34:13,541
FOR ONE OF THE FIRST PARTIES

752
00:34:13,541 --> 00:34:16,577
WELCOMING THEN
GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS,

753
00:34:16,577 --> 00:34:19,613
WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON,
TO WASHINGTON,

754
00:34:19,613 --> 00:34:22,216
AND I HAPPENED TO BE
STANDING NEAR THE DOOR

755
00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:26,120
WHEN THE PRESIDENT,
OR THE PRESIDENT-ELECT CAME IN,

756
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,590
AND MRS. GRAHAM INTRODUCED ME.

757
00:34:29,590 --> 00:34:33,060
AND BILL CLINTON SAID TO ME,
"I KNOW WHO THIS IS."

758
00:34:33,060 --> 00:34:35,229
AND HE GRABBED ME BY BOTH HANDS,

759
00:34:35,229 --> 00:34:39,133
THE WAY AN AUNT
WOULD TALK TO YOU,

760
00:34:39,133 --> 00:34:42,169
AND HE BEGAN TO SPEAK TO ME
ABOUT HOW WE USE

761
00:34:42,169 --> 00:34:46,941
ARCHIVAL PHOTOGRAPHS,
FIRST PERSON VOICES, AND MUSIC.

762
00:34:46,941 --> 00:34:50,411
AND I HAVE GOTTEN THOUSANDS
OF REVIEWS ABOUT THIS FILM,

763
00:34:50,411 --> 00:34:54,748
AND NO ONE HAD SPOKEN
WITH THE SAME SENSE OF CLARITY

764
00:34:54,748 --> 00:34:56,483
ABOUT WHAT OUR ART WAS.

765
00:34:56,483 --> 00:34:58,219
AND WE'D GOTTEN LOTS

766
00:34:58,219 --> 00:35:00,387
OF INTERESTING DISSECTIONS
OF THE FILM.

767
00:35:00,387 --> 00:35:02,556
AND HERE WAS THE MAN
WHO WAS ABOUT TO BE PRESIDENT

768
00:35:02,556 --> 00:35:04,725
TELLING ME, QUITE ACCURATELY,

769
00:35:04,725 --> 00:35:08,629
HOW I USED OLD PHOTOGRAPHS
AND MUSIC AND SOUND EFFECTS

770
00:35:08,629 --> 00:35:10,798
AND FIRST PERSON
VOICES TOGETHER.

771
00:35:11,232 --> 00:35:11,232
AND THEN AS HE WAS LEAVING
THAT PARTY HE SAID TO ME,

772
00:35:14,702 --> 00:35:16,871
AND YOU KNOW,
ALL DURING THE CAMPAIGN

773
00:35:16,871 --> 00:35:19,907
WE LISTENED TO THE SOUNDTRACK,
INCLUDING "ASHOKAN FAREWELL."

774
00:35:19,907 --> 00:35:22,076
AND I SORT OF SMILED
WITH THAT SENSE OF I'M SURE

775
00:35:22,076 --> 00:35:24,245
A LITTLE BIT
OF SMUG SATISFACTION

776
00:35:24,245 --> 00:35:25,980
OF THE EFFECT OF THE FILM,

777
00:35:25,980 --> 00:35:28,148
AND AT THAT MOMENT
THE SECRET SERVICE GUY CAME OVER

778
00:35:28,582 --> 00:35:32,052
AND SAID, YUP, WE DID,
WE LISTENED TO IT EVERY DAY.

779
00:35:32,052 --> 00:35:36,390
AND YOU JUST REALIZE
THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT US,

780
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:37,691
THERE'S SOME EVENTS

781
00:35:37,691 --> 00:35:41,161
THAT JUST THROUGH
SOME STRANGE STROKES OF LUCK,

782
00:35:41,595 --> 00:35:43,330
PERMEATE THEMSELVES INTO CULTURE

783
00:35:43,330 --> 00:35:46,800
AND BECOME A KIND OF COMMON BOND
THAT WE SHARE.

784
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,704
AND RICH PEOPLE,
FAMOUS PEOPLE, POOR PEOPLE,

785
00:35:50,704 --> 00:35:52,873
BLACK PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE,

786
00:35:52,873 --> 00:35:54,608
WOMEN AS WELL AS MEN,

787
00:35:54,608 --> 00:35:57,211
WRITE, STOP ME IN AN AIRPORT
OR ON THE STREET,

788
00:35:57,645 --> 00:36:00,681
AND WANT TO TALK ABOUT
SOME ASPECT OF THIS FILM

789
00:36:01,115 --> 00:36:03,717
THAT HAS SOME RELEVANCE
TO THEIR LIFE NOW.

790
00:36:03,717 --> 00:36:05,886
WHICH REMINDS US,
AS FAULKNER SAID,

791
00:36:06,008 --> 00:36:09,632
THAT "HISTORY IS NOT <i>WAS,</i>
<i>BUT IS."</i>

792
00:36:20,762 --> 00:36:23,798
KEN HAS TOLD ME
THAT IT WAS A RESULT

793
00:36:23,798 --> 00:36:27,268
OF HIS HAVING MADE
THE FILM ON HUEY LONG,

794
00:36:27,268 --> 00:36:30,305
AND ROBERT PENN WARREN,
OF COURSE, WAS PART OF THAT.

795
00:36:30,739 --> 00:36:32,907
AND WARREN ASKED HIM WHAT
HE WAS GOING TO BE DOING NEX

796
00:36:32,907 --> 00:36:36,378
AND HE SAID HE THOUGHT
HE'D GO INTO THE CIVIL WAR.

797
00:36:36,811 --> 00:36:39,414
AND WARREN THOUGHT
THAT WAS AN IDEA, A GOOD ONE,

798
00:36:39,414 --> 00:36:42,884
AND CALLED HIM
ON THE TELEPHONE AFTERWARDS,

799
00:36:42,884 --> 00:36:45,920
AND TOLD HIM THAT HE SHOULD
SEE ME AND TALK TO ME ABOUT IT.

800
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:51,559
AND KEN LATER SAW WALKER PERCY
DOWN IN LOUISIANA,

801
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:53,728
AND WALKER CALLED ME
TO SAY THAT KEN WAS THERE

802
00:36:53,728 --> 00:36:56,331
AND WANTED TO COME UP,
WOULD IT BE ALL RIGHT?

803
00:36:56,765 --> 00:36:59,801
I SAID, "YEAH,"
AND THAT'S HOW I MET HIM.

804
00:36:59,801 --> 00:37:01,970
I WAS SURPRISED THAT ANYBODY
THAT YOUNG

805
00:37:01,970 --> 00:37:03,705
COULD BE MAKING A FILM.

806
00:37:04,139 --> 00:37:06,741
I THOUGHT HE WAS ABOUT 22.

807
00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:11,513
AND I MAY HAVE SEEN
"BROOKLYN BRIDGE,"

808
00:37:11,513 --> 00:37:13,248
I THINK I HAD.

809
00:37:13,248 --> 00:37:14,983
AND I ADMIRED HIS WORK ON THAT,

810
00:37:14,983 --> 00:37:16,718
AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS

811
00:37:16,718 --> 00:37:19,320
THAT MADE ME WILLING TO SEE HIM,
TALK WITH HIM.

812
00:37:20,622 --> 00:37:22,357
THEY WERE, I THINK THERE WERE

813
00:37:22,357 --> 00:37:25,393
PROBABLY TWO OR THREE OF THEM
HERE AT THE HOUSE.

814
00:37:25,393 --> 00:37:27,996
AND WE ALSO WENT
TO THE BATTLEFIELD AT SHILOH.

815
00:37:28,430 --> 00:37:30,598
AND WE WENT DOWN TO VICKSBURG,

816
00:37:30,598 --> 00:37:33,635
AND THERE WAS A LITTLE FILMING
IN BOTH OF THOSE,

817
00:37:33,635 --> 00:37:35,804
BUT MOST OF IT WAS DONE
RIGHT HERE.

818
00:37:35,804 --> 00:37:38,840
AND IT WAS PERHA,
I'M GUESSING,

819
00:37:39,274 --> 00:37:43,611
A COUPLE OF HOURS ON FILM,
MAYBE THREE HOURS, AS MUCH,

820
00:37:43,611 --> 00:37:48,383
THERE WAS A LOT OF IT,
SHORT SEGMENTS, .

821
00:37:48,817 --> 00:37:51,419
NONE OF IT WAS REHEARSED.

822
00:37:51,419 --> 00:37:54,022
WHAT HE WAS GOING TO ASK ME,

823
00:37:54,022 --> 00:37:55,757
AND I DIDN'T
MAKE ANY SUGGESTIONS

824
00:37:55,757 --> 00:37:59,227
ABOUT WHAT HE MIGHT ASK ME,
OR WHAT MY ANSWERS MIGHT BE.

825
00:37:59,227 --> 00:38:00,962
AND I THINK
A CERTAIN INFORMALITY

826
00:38:00,962 --> 00:38:04,432
RESULTED FROM THAT
IN A GOOD WAY.

827
00:38:04,432 --> 00:38:08,770
IT WAS UP TO HIM AFTER HAVING
ALL THESE SNIPPETS

828
00:38:08,770 --> 00:38:10,939
AND DISCUSSIONS AND THINGS
TO PUT THEM TOGETHER

829
00:38:11,372 --> 00:38:13,975
IN THE ORDER IN WHICH
HE FINALLY WOUND UP WITH.

830
00:38:13,975 --> 00:38:17,879
HE MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT
STONEWALL JACKSON AT ONE MINUTE

831
00:38:17,879 --> 00:38:20,048
AND BEDFORD FORREST THE NEXT.

832
00:38:20,048 --> 00:38:21,783
AND THEY WERE NOT
NECESSARILY TOGETHER,

833
00:38:22,217 --> 00:38:24,385
HE PUT THEM WHERE THEY BELONGED
IN THE FILM.

834
00:38:26,121 --> 00:38:27,422
THAT WAS THE BEST THING
ABOUT THE FILM, TO MY MIND,

835
00:38:29,591 --> 00:38:31,759
FROM THE VERY START.

836
00:38:31,759 --> 00:38:35,663
WHAT KEN DID WAS SEND,
OH, MAYBE 12 HISTORIANS

837
00:38:35,663 --> 00:38:39,134
A PROSPECTIVE NARRATION SCRIPT,

838
00:38:39,134 --> 00:38:41,302
TO SEE WHAT WE THOUGHT OF IT.

839
00:38:41,302 --> 00:38:43,905
AND THEN HE ASKED US
TO MEET IN WASHINGTON.

840
00:38:43,905 --> 00:38:47,809
WE ALL SAT AROUND A LARGE TABLE
IN SOME HOTEL THERE,

841
00:38:47,809 --> 00:38:49,978
AND WENT THROUGH THE SCRIPT.

842
00:38:50,411 --> 00:38:53,448
AND THERE WAS SCARCELY A THING
THAT COULD COME UP ABOUT THE WAR

843
00:38:53,448 --> 00:38:55,617
THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE
TWO OR THRAE MEN

844
00:38:55,617 --> 00:38:58,653
AROUND THAT TABLE
WHO KNEW A GREAT DEAL ABOUT IT.

845
00:38:58,653 --> 00:39:00,822
AND THE MOST ENCOURAGING THING,
I THINK TO ALL OF US,

846
00:39:00,822 --> 00:39:04,726
WAS THE MINUTE THAT KEN SAW
THERE WAS SOME DOUBT,

847
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,063
HISTORICALLY, ABOUT A SCENE,
HE WAS WILLING TO DROP IT,

848
00:39:09,497 --> 00:39:12,100
NO MATTER HOW MUCH
DRAMATIC VALUE IT HAD.

849
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:15,136
HE REALIZED THAT THE CLOSER
HE GOT TO THE TRUTH,

850
00:39:15,136 --> 00:39:17,305
THE BETTER THE FILM WOULD BE.

851
00:39:17,305 --> 00:39:19,040
YOU CAN'T EVER REALLY
GET TO THE TRUTH,

852
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,209
BUT THE CLOSER YOU COME,
THE BETTER IT'LL BE.

853
00:39:22,944 --> 00:39:25,547
I THOUGHT THAT IT CAME OFF
IN A GOOD DRAMATIC WAY.

854
00:39:25,547 --> 00:39:30,318
IT SEEMED TO ME TO PERHAPS
LEAN A LITTLE HEAVILY

855
00:39:30,318 --> 00:39:33,354
ON SLAVERY AS THE BIGGEST
PROBLEM OF THE WAR,

856
00:39:33,354 --> 00:39:35,523
WHICH I DON'T THINK IT WAS,

857
00:39:35,523 --> 00:39:37,692
ESPECIALLY TO THE PEOPLE
WHO FOUGHT IT.

858
00:39:37,692 --> 00:39:41,596
THE DRAMATIC VALUE OF PICTURES
HAD SO MUCH TO DO

859
00:39:41,596 --> 00:39:43,765
WITH THE WAY HE TOLD THE STORY.

860
00:39:43,765 --> 00:39:45,500
IT HAD THE VIRTUE

861
00:39:45,934 --> 00:39:48,536
OF NOT NEGLECTING
THE WESTERN CAMPAIGNS.

862
00:39:48,536 --> 00:39:52,006
BUT HE HAD SO MUCH MORE PICTURES
OF THE EASTERN CAMPAIGNS

863
00:39:52,006 --> 00:39:54,175
THAT HE STILL LEANED IN THAT WAY
A GOOD DEAL MORE

864
00:39:54,175 --> 00:39:55,910
THAN I THINK IT SHOULD

865
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:58,079
FOR A TRUE HISTORY
OF THE CIVIL WAR.

866
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:01,549
I THINK THE MAIN REASON
IT WAS SO SUCCESSFUL

867
00:40:01,549 --> 00:40:06,321
IS A COMBINATION OF KEN'S SKILL
IN MAKING IT

868
00:40:06,321 --> 00:40:08,923
AND THE SUBJECT ITSELF.

869
00:40:08,923 --> 00:40:11,526
THE CIVIL WAR IS A SUBJECT
THAT WOULD BE

870
00:40:11,526 --> 00:40:13,261
ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING
TO ANY AMERICAN.

871
00:40:13,261 --> 00:40:14,562
WHETHER HIS FOREBEARS
FOUGHT IN IT OR NOT,

872
00:40:14,562 --> 00:40:18,900
IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY
DRAMATIC THING,

873
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:23,238
AND THEREFORE, THAT PART OF IT
CARRIES IT OVER TO THE PUBLIC.

874
00:40:23,238 --> 00:40:26,274
WE EXPECTED THAT IT
WOULD BE WELL RECEIVED,

875
00:40:26,274 --> 00:40:28,443
BUT NO ONE,
INCLUDING KEN HIMSELF,

876
00:40:28,443 --> 00:40:33,648
HAD NO IDEA THAT IT WAS GOING TO
BE THE BIG THING IT WAS ON PBS.

877
00:40:33,648 --> 00:40:34,949
AND CERTAINLY, I DON'T THINK
HE COULD HAVE MADE IT

878
00:40:34,949 --> 00:40:37,986
ANYWHERE BUT ON PBS.

879
00:40:38,419 --> 00:40:41,022
I DON'T THINK ANYONE ELSE
WOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM THE TIME.

880
00:40:43,625 --> 00:40:45,793
IT AFFECTED ME ENORMOUSLY.

881
00:40:45,793 --> 00:40:49,264
I'D ALWAYS STAYED OUT
OF ANY KIND OF SPOTLIGHT,

882
00:40:49,264 --> 00:40:50,565
I NEVER WENT TO NEW YORK

883
00:40:50,565 --> 00:40:53,167
WHEN ANY OF MY NOVELS
WERE PUBLISHED

884
00:40:53,167 --> 00:40:55,336
OR WHEN "THE WAR"
ITSELF WAS PUBLISHED.

885
00:40:55,770 --> 00:40:58,373
I NEVER HIT THE ROAD ADVERTISING
IT THE WAY WRITERS DO.

886
00:40:58,373 --> 00:41:01,409
I'VE ALWAYS BEEN
A PRIVATE SORT OF PERSON.

887
00:41:01,409 --> 00:41:05,313
AND THEN THIS THING
BURST ON TELEVISION.

888
00:41:05,313 --> 00:41:06,614
AND ON ONE OF THE SEQUENCES,

889
00:41:06,614 --> 00:41:10,518
I HAPPENED TO MENTION
"HERE IN MEMPHIS."

890
00:41:10,518 --> 00:41:13,554
I NEVER WOULD TAKE MY NAME
OUT OF THE PHONE BOOK,

891
00:41:13,554 --> 00:41:15,290
AND THE PHONE STARTED RINGING.

892
00:41:15,290 --> 00:41:17,458
AND FOR THE NEXT FOUR
OR FIVE YEARS, ESPECIALLY,

893
00:41:17,458 --> 00:41:19,193
IT KEPT RINGING.

894
00:41:19,193 --> 00:41:20,928
AND THEY REVISED THIS THING --

895
00:41:20,928 --> 00:41:22,230
REVIVE THIS THING
EVERY NOW AND THEN,

896
00:41:23,531 --> 00:41:26,567
AND WHEN IT DOES,
IN VARIOUS PARTS OF THE COUNTRY,

897
00:41:27,001 --> 00:41:29,170
THE PHONE
STARTS RINGING AGAIN --

898
00:41:29,604 --> 00:41:35,677
IT'S A -- IT'S DISTRACTING
AND DAMNABLE AT TIMES,

899
00:41:35,677 --> 00:41:38,279
AND YET IT HAS
A PLEASANT ASPECT TO IT

900
00:41:38,279 --> 00:41:40,882
OF KNOWING THAT PEOPLE
LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

901
00:41:41,316 --> 00:41:44,352
SO IT'S DIFFICULT TO SAY WHETHER
I'M AGAINST IT OR FOR IT.

902
00:41:44,786 --> 00:41:47,388
PEOPLE HAVE A FUNNY REACTION
TO SEEING SOMEONE

903
00:41:47,388 --> 00:41:49,991
THAT THEY'VE SEEN ON TELEVISION.

904
00:41:49,991 --> 00:41:51,726
I HAD IT MYSELF.

905
00:41:51,726 --> 00:41:54,762
I WAS WALKING
ON 44th STREET, WALKING WEST,

906
00:41:55,196 --> 00:41:57,799
FROM FIFTH AVENUE
OVER TO MADISON.

907
00:41:57,799 --> 00:42:00,835
AND I SAW THIS MAN
COMING TOWARD ME,

908
00:42:00,835 --> 00:42:02,570
AND I WAS THOROUGHLY
FAMILIAR WITH HIM,

909
00:42:02,570 --> 00:42:04,739
I THOUGHT EVEN, I MIGHT HAVE
ROOMED WITH HIM

910
00:42:04,739 --> 00:42:07,342
IN COLLEGE OR SOMETHING, HE WAS
SO FAMILIAR, VERY FAMILIAR.

911
00:42:07,775 --> 00:42:09,077
BUT I COULDN'T THINK OF HIS NAME

912
00:42:09,077 --> 00:42:09,944
AND I COULDN'T
THINK OF HIS NAME.

913
00:42:09,944 --> 00:42:12,113
AND HERE WE ARE,
FIXING TO MEET.

914
00:42:12,113 --> 00:42:12,980
AND I FIGURE HE'S
GOING TO RECOGNIZE ME

915
00:42:13,848 --> 00:42:15,583
SINCE I KNOW HIM SO WELL.

916
00:42:15,583 --> 00:42:18,186
AND AS WE GOT CLOSER,
I WAS PREPARED TO SHAKE HANDS,

917
00:42:18,186 --> 00:42:21,222
AND TRY TO REMEMBER HIS NAME,
STILL, NEVER COULD.

918
00:42:21,222 --> 00:42:22,957
AND AS WE GOT CLOSER,
I WAS LOOKING AT HIM,

919
00:42:22,957 --> 00:42:24,258
AND HE LOOKED AT ME
IN SORT OF AN ANNOYED WAY

920
00:42:24,258 --> 00:42:27,295
AND WENT ON PAST.

921
00:42:27,295 --> 00:42:29,464
THAT WAS WHEN I REALIZED
IT WAS CHET HUNTLEY.

922
00:42:29,464 --> 00:42:31,199
BUT HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE
ON THE STREET,

923
00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:33,801
HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE
IN THIS LITTLE BOX.

924
00:42:33,801 --> 00:42:36,838
AND I GET SOME OF THAT,
SOME OF THAT SAME TYPE.

925
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,609
I THINK THAT IT REALLY DID
COMMUNICATE A FEELING

926
00:42:41,609 --> 00:42:44,212
BECAUSE OF ITS USE
OF THE OLD PICTURES.

927
00:42:44,212 --> 00:42:48,116
IT REALLY DID
COMMUNICATE A FEELING

928
00:42:48,116 --> 00:42:50,718
OF WHAT THE PEOPLE
AT THAT TIME WENT THROUGH

929
00:42:50,718 --> 00:42:52,887
IN THAT HORRENDOUS STRUGGLE.

930
00:42:55,056 --> 00:42:57,225
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER,
IN THE CONFEDERATE ARMY,

931
00:42:57,225 --> 00:42:59,394
AT LEAST ONE OUT OF FOUR MEN
WAS A CASUALTY.

932
00:42:59,394 --> 00:43:02,430
IN THE NORTHERN ARMY,
ONE OUT OF TEN WAS A CASUALTY.

933
00:43:02,430 --> 00:43:06,768
I REMEMBER THINGS
LIKE A CAMERA LOOKING AT

934
00:43:06,768 --> 00:43:08,936
THE DEAD ON THE FIELD
AT COLD HARBOR

935
00:43:08,936 --> 00:43:11,105
AND VARIOUS PLACES.

936
00:43:11,105 --> 00:43:13,708
OR AT SHARPSBURG.

937
00:43:13,708 --> 00:43:18,479
THERE WAS SOMETHING
VERY DRAMATIC AND POWERFUL

938
00:43:18,913 --> 00:43:20,648
ABOUT THE DEAD.

939
00:43:20,648 --> 00:43:23,684
DEAD HORSES AS WELL AS MEN --

940
00:43:23,684 --> 00:43:26,287
SOMETHING ABOUT SEEING
THE COST OF WAR DEMONSTRATED

941
00:43:26,287 --> 00:43:29,757
BY THE OBVIOUS AGONY
IN WHICH THOSE PEOPLE DIED...

942
00:43:30,191 --> 00:43:33,227
AND THE USELESSNESS OF IT.

943
00:43:33,227 --> 00:43:37,131
THERE WERE 1,095,000
CASUALTIES IN THAT WAR.

944
00:43:37,131 --> 00:43:39,300
AND IT BRINGS IT HOME TO YOU
WHEN YOU SEE

945
00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:41,903
THE MANGLED DEAD ON THE FIELD.

946
00:43:44,071 --> 00:43:47,108
KEN KNEW THE VALUE
OF SMALL THINGS,

947
00:43:47,108 --> 00:43:51,446
BRINGING YOU CLOSE TO THE BONE
ON WHAT'S HAPPENING.

948
00:43:51,879 --> 00:43:53,181
IT COULD BE ALMOST NOTHING.

949
00:43:53,181 --> 00:43:54,916
BUT IF HAD
A CERTAIN POIGNANCY TO IT,

950
00:43:54,916 --> 00:43:57,084
IT BROUGHT IT HOME TO YOU.

951
00:43:57,084 --> 00:44:00,555
AND KEN HAS AN EAR AND AN EYE
FOR THAT KIND OF THING.

952
00:44:00,555 --> 00:44:04,459
HIS PICKING OF THE TWO PLACES,
ONE UP IN MAINE,

953
00:44:04,892 --> 00:44:07,495
THE OTHER IN MIDDLE TENNESSEE,

954
00:44:07,495 --> 00:44:10,097
AS BEING TYPICAL
OF THE TWO SIDES,

955
00:44:10,097 --> 00:44:12,700
WAS A GOOD CHOICE,
FOR EXAMPLE.

956
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:16,170
IT BROUGHT OUT
A STRONG SENSE OF THE DIVISION

957
00:44:16,170 --> 00:44:17,905
AND YET THE KINSHIP.

958
00:44:17,905 --> 00:44:22,243
IT WAS A GOOD THING
TO USE THOSE TWO PLACES.

959
00:44:22,243 --> 00:44:26,147
HE QUOTED FREQUENTLY
FROM ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOOKS

960
00:44:26,147 --> 00:44:27,882
OF THE CIVIL WAR.

961
00:44:27,882 --> 00:44:29,617
IT'S COMPANY H,
"THE SIDE SHOW,"

962
00:44:29,617 --> 00:44:31,352
OR "THE BIG SHOW,"
BY SAM WATKINS.

963
00:44:31,352 --> 00:44:34,388
THAT'S A PRIVATE SOLDIER

964
00:44:34,822 --> 00:44:36,123
IN THE CONFEDERATE ARMY.

965
00:44:36,123 --> 00:44:37,859
HIS REMINISCENCES OF THE WAR.

966
00:44:38,292 --> 00:44:41,762
THEY -- LITTLE THINGS
FROM THAT ARE VERY LIVELY.

967
00:44:42,196 --> 00:44:46,100
THEY LIVE VERY CLOSE TO,
VERY CLOSE TO LIFE

968
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:49,136
IN THE SENSE OF KNOWING
WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

969
00:44:49,136 --> 00:44:53,474
IF YOU WERE ONE OF A GROUP
OF SAY, 12 MEN IN A SQUAD,

970
00:44:53,474 --> 00:44:55,643
AND YOU WENT THROUGH
FOUR YEARS OF WAR

971
00:44:55,643 --> 00:45:00,414
IN WHICH YOU PROBABLY LOST
SEVEN OF THEM,

972
00:45:00,414 --> 00:45:03,885
IT BROUGHT IT HOME TO YOU
IN A VERY STRONG WAY.

973
00:45:03,885 --> 00:45:06,053
AND WHEN YOU GOT
BACK HOME AGAIN,

974
00:45:06,487 --> 00:45:09,524
THOSE OF YOU WHO SURVIVED HAD
BEEN THROUGH THINGS TOGETHER

975
00:45:09,524 --> 00:45:11,692
THAT MEANT
A GREAT DEAL TO YOU.

976
00:45:11,692 --> 00:45:16,030
THERE WAS ALSO,
WHETHER NORTHERN OR SOUTHERN,

977
00:45:16,464 --> 00:45:18,199
THERE WAS A SENSE
OF HAVING TAKEN PART

978
00:45:18,199 --> 00:45:21,235
IN SOMETHING
THAT DEFINED THIS COUNTRY.

979
00:45:21,235 --> 00:45:23,404
I'VE OFTEN SAID THAT

980
00:45:23,404 --> 00:45:25,573
THE CIVIL WAR
IS WHAT DEFINED US.

981
00:45:25,573 --> 00:45:27,308
THE REVOLUTION SET US FREE,

982
00:45:27,308 --> 00:45:29,043
BUT THE CIVIL WAR DECIDED
WHAT KIND OF COUNTRY

983
00:45:29,043 --> 00:45:30,778
WE WERE GOING TO BE.

984
00:45:30,778 --> 00:45:32,947
AND THESE MEN WERE VERY MUCH
AWARE OF THE FACT

985
00:45:32,947 --> 00:45:35,116
THAT THEY HAD BEEN
INVOLVED IN THAT DECISION,

986
00:45:35,550 --> 00:45:37,285
WHETHER THEY WON OR LOST.

987
00:45:37,285 --> 00:45:42,056
AND IT WAS EVOCATIVE FOR THEM.

988
00:45:44,225 --> 00:45:48,129
I THINK THAT THE FILM
WILL REMAIN A DOCUMENT

989
00:45:48,563 --> 00:45:52,900
OF CONSIDERABLE VALUE
AFTER WE'RE ALL GONE.

990
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:56,804
I THINK THAT IT WAS
CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE WAR

991
00:45:56,804 --> 00:46:00,708
TO PARTAKE
OF THE AUTHENTICITY,

992
00:46:00,708 --> 00:46:02,009
AND FAR ENOUGH FROM THE WAR

993
00:46:02,009 --> 00:46:06,781
TO ALLOW A LEVEL JUDGMENT
OF WHAT WENT ON.

994
00:46:06,781 --> 00:46:10,685
SO THAT IT WAS,
1990 WAS PROBABLY

995
00:46:10,685 --> 00:46:12,420
A GOOD TIME TO SHOW THAT.

996
00:46:12,420 --> 00:46:13,721
AND FROM, AS HE DID
FROM '85 TO '90

997
00:46:13,721 --> 00:46:16,324
WAS A GOOD TIME TO MAKE IT.

998
00:46:16,757 --> 00:46:19,360
AND I DON'T THINK THAT TIME
WILL COME AGAIN.

999
00:46:19,794 --> 00:46:21,529
I DON'T THINK WE CAN
GET AS CLOSE TO IT

1000
00:46:21,529 --> 00:46:23,264
AS HE WAS THEN,

1001
00:46:23,264 --> 00:46:26,300
AND I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GOING
TO BE ANY MORE DISPASSIONATE

1002
00:46:26,392 --> 00:46:27,968
WITH MORE PASSING OF TIME.

1003
00:46:35,147 --> 00:46:38,183
MY INITIAL REACTION WHEN I SAW
KEN BURNS' "CIVIL WAR"

1004
00:46:38,183 --> 00:46:41,653
WAS THAT OUR "ILIAD"
HAD FOUND ITS HOMER.

1005
00:46:42,087 --> 00:46:44,689
THAT THIS IS THE GREAT
MONSOON OF OUR HISTORY.

1006
00:46:44,689 --> 00:46:47,726
AND INDEED, THE CIVIL WAR IS,
I THINK,

1007
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,762
THE GREATEST EVENT
IN WORLD HISTORY.

1008
00:46:50,762 --> 00:46:52,931
IT'S THE GREATEST EVENT
IN AMERICAN HISTORY,

1009
00:46:52,931 --> 00:46:55,534
AND AMERICA IS THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING, I THINK,

1010
00:46:55,534 --> 00:46:57,702
TO HAVE HAPPENED
IN HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

1011
00:46:57,702 --> 00:47:01,606
IT INVOLVES THE CONSTITUTION,
IT INVOLVES SLAVERY,

1012
00:47:01,606 --> 00:47:03,775
IT INVOLVES SELF-GOVERNMENT,

1013
00:47:03,775 --> 00:47:07,679
AND ALL THE ISSUES
OF MODERN STRIVING

1014
00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:11,583
ARE WRAPPED UP IN THIS
ONE GREAT PANORAMA OF JUSTICE

1015
00:47:11,583 --> 00:47:13,318
AND ITS DENIAL
AND ITS ESTABLISHMENT.

1016
00:47:14,619 --> 00:47:17,656
"THE CIVIL WAR," LIKE
A MASTERPIECE OF LITERATURE,

1017
00:47:17,656 --> 00:47:20,258
TALKS ABOUT
UNIVERSAL HUMAN THEMES --

1018
00:47:20,258 --> 00:47:23,295
LEAVING HOME,
GETTING BACK TO HOME,

1019
00:47:23,295 --> 00:47:24,596
DANGER, COURAGE,

1020
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:27,199
LOSS, LOVE.

1021
00:47:27,632 --> 00:47:31,970
FIND ME A HUMAN THEME
THAT ISN'T IN THIS GREAT NOVEL

1022
00:47:31,970 --> 00:47:33,705
CALLED THE CIVIL WAR.

1023
00:47:33,705 --> 00:47:35,874
BROTHER AGAINST BROTHER.

1024
00:47:36,308 --> 00:47:39,778
FAMILIES DIVIDED,
FAMILIES UNITED.

1025
00:47:39,778 --> 00:47:42,380
A SENSE OF REGRET AND LOSS.

1026
00:47:42,380 --> 00:47:45,851
DUTY AGAINST OTHER IMPULSES.

1027
00:47:45,851 --> 00:47:48,453
I CAN'T THINK OF
A THEME OF LITERATURE

1028
00:47:48,453 --> 00:47:50,188
THAT ISN'T WRITTEN LARGE,

1029
00:47:50,622 --> 00:47:53,225
NOT JUST IN THE HEROES
OF THE CIVIL WAR,

1030
00:47:53,225 --> 00:47:56,261
BUT IN THE LETTERS
OF THE FOOT SOLDIERS.

1031
00:47:57,996 --> 00:47:59,731
I THINK KEN BURNS' SERIES

1032
00:47:59,731 --> 00:48:01,466
HAD A TREMENDOUS IMPACT
FOR SEVERAL REASONS.

1033
00:48:01,466 --> 00:48:04,936
FIRST THE SUBJECT.

1034
00:48:05,370 --> 00:48:06,238
SOMEONE ONCE SAID

1035
00:48:06,238 --> 00:48:08,406
IF YOU'RE WRITING A BOOK
IN THE UNITED STATES,

1036
00:48:08,406 --> 00:48:10,575
AMERICANS LIKE TO READ
ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR OR ANIMALS,

1037
00:48:10,575 --> 00:48:12,310
AND THEREFORE
THE IDEAL BOOK WOULD BE

1038
00:48:12,310 --> 00:48:13,612
"I WAS LINCOLN'S VET."

1039
00:48:14,045 --> 00:48:16,648
WELL, THE CIVIL WAR
IS OUR GREAT SUBJECT.

1040
00:48:16,648 --> 00:48:20,118
AND THEN IT WAS THE WAY
KEN DID IT.

1041
00:48:20,118 --> 00:48:24,890
IT WAS A QUITE ASTONISHING
MARRIAGE OF PICTURES AND WORDS.

1042
00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:26,191
USUALLY ON TELEVISION

1043
00:48:26,625 --> 00:48:27,926
WORDS AROVERWHELMED
BY PICTURES.

1044
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:29,661
FORTUNATELY,

1045
00:48:29,661 --> 00:48:31,830
FORTUNATELY -- THAT SOUNDS
PARADOXICAL TO SAY SO --

1046
00:48:31,830 --> 00:48:34,866
KEN BURNS DID NOT HAVE
MOTION PICTURES,

1047
00:48:34,866 --> 00:48:36,601
DID NOT HAVE VIDEOTAPE,

1048
00:48:36,601 --> 00:48:39,204
DID NOT HAVE FILM
OF COLD HARBOR.

1049
00:48:39,204 --> 00:48:40,939
THAT WOULD HAVE
SPOILED EVERYTHING, FRANKLY.

1050
00:48:40,939 --> 00:48:43,108
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
JUST ANOTHER NEWSREEL.

1051
00:48:43,542 --> 00:48:47,012
THIS WAS USING THE EVOCATION

1052
00:48:47,012 --> 00:48:50,482
OF THE BLACK AND WHITE PICTURES
FROM THE TIME

1053
00:48:50,916 --> 00:48:55,687
AND THE BATTLEFIELDS
AS THEY LOOK

1054
00:48:55,687 --> 00:48:57,856
A CENTURY AND SO ON,

1055
00:48:57,856 --> 00:49:01,326
WITH THE WORDS, THE MAGNIFICENT
USE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

1056
00:49:01,326 --> 00:49:02,193
HOW THE PEOPLE,

1057
00:49:02,193 --> 00:49:04,796
THE COMMON MEN AND WOMEN
OF THAT TIME,

1058
00:49:04,796 --> 00:49:06,965
USED THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
SO WELL IS WORTH PONDERING.

1059
00:49:06,965 --> 00:49:10,869
BUT IT WAS THIS SYMPHONY
OF WORDS AND STILL PICTURES

1060
00:49:10,869 --> 00:49:13,905
THAT GAVE IT ITS SPECIAL FORCE.

1061
00:49:13,905 --> 00:49:14,773
I THINK

1062
00:49:14,773 --> 00:49:19,544
THE NORMALLY LITERATE
19th CENTURY AMERICAN

1063
00:49:19,544 --> 00:49:23,014
HAD AS HIS ENTERTAINMENT
POPULAR NOVELS.

1064
00:49:23,448 --> 00:49:26,051
BALZAC, DICKENS,
GEORGE ELIOT.

1065
00:49:26,051 --> 00:49:28,653
THEY DIDN'T TURN ON
THE TELEVISION,

1066
00:49:28,653 --> 00:49:31,256
THEY WEREN'T IN THAT PASSIVE,
RECEIVING MODE.

1067
00:49:31,256 --> 00:49:34,292
THEY WERE IN THE ACTIVE MODE,
WHICH READING IS.

1068
00:49:34,292 --> 00:49:36,895
AND WHAT WAS
POPULAR ENTERTAINMENT THEN

1069
00:49:36,895 --> 00:49:39,931
WAS POPULAR NOVELS,
DICKENS, NOT BAD.

1070
00:49:39,931 --> 00:49:42,968
AND I THINK IT TRANSLATED
INTO WHAT THEY DID.

1071
00:49:42,968 --> 00:49:44,703
ALSO, THEY DIDN'T
PICK UP THE PHONE

1072
00:49:44,703 --> 00:49:46,871
WHEN THEY WANTED TO COMMUNICATE,
THEY WROTE LETTERS.

1073
00:49:46,871 --> 00:49:49,040
THEY HAD THE DISCIPLINE
OF EXPRESSING THEMSELVES

1074
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,812
IN COMPLETE SENTENCES
AND ROUNDED PARAGRAPHS.

1075
00:49:53,812 --> 00:49:55,547
SOMETHING WE'VE LOST.

1076
00:50:00,752 --> 00:50:02,487
AMERICA WAS READY TO SEE THIS.

1077
00:50:02,487 --> 00:50:04,656
THIS MONSOON OF OUR HISTORY,

1078
00:50:04,656 --> 00:50:07,258
THIS CIVIL WAR HAS WINDS
THAT KEEP BLOWING THROUGH US.

1079
00:50:07,258 --> 00:50:09,427
WE'RE STILL TRYING TO SETTLE
SOME OF THE ISSUES THEN.

1080
00:50:09,861 --> 00:50:12,897
RACE, POPULAR GOVERNMENT,

1081
00:50:12,897 --> 00:50:16,801
EQUALITY,
OUR OBLIGATIONS TO ONE ANOTHER,

1082
00:50:16,801 --> 00:50:20,705
OUR READINESS TO PAY THE LAST
FULL MEASURE OF DEVOTION,

1083
00:50:20,705 --> 00:50:22,440
ALL THE REST.

1084
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,778
THEY WERE ALSO READY FOR WHAT
KEN BURNS BROUGHT TO THIS,

1085
00:50:26,778 --> 00:50:28,513
WHICH IS
A PECULIAR UNDERSTATEMENT.

1086
00:50:28,513 --> 00:50:30,682
WE'RE BOMBARDED CONSTANTLY

1087
00:50:30,682 --> 00:50:35,453
WITH EXCESS AND SHRILLNESS
AND HYPERBOLE.

1088
00:50:35,453 --> 00:50:39,791
THERE'S A MOMENT IN KEN'S SERIES
WHERE THERE'S A PICTURE,

1089
00:50:39,791 --> 00:50:42,827
A BLACK AND WHITE PICTURE
OF THE BACK OF A SLAVE,

1090
00:50:42,827 --> 00:50:48,900
THE BACK SCARRED,
TERRIBLY SCARRED BY A LASH.

1091
00:50:48,900 --> 00:50:51,936
THE CAMERA PASSES BY,
IT DOESN'T DWELL ON IT,

1092
00:50:51,936 --> 00:50:54,539
AND THE NARRATIVE
DOESN'T MENTION IT.

1093
00:50:54,539 --> 00:50:57,142
DWELLING ON IT OR MENTIONING IT
WOULD HAVE SPOILED IT,

1094
00:50:57,142 --> 00:50:59,310
WOULD HAVE SOMEHOW
DIMINISHED IT.

1095
00:50:59,310 --> 00:51:03,648
IT'S THIS ABILITY TO GET MAXIMUM
IMPACT FROM UNDERSTATEMENT

1096
00:51:03,648 --> 00:51:05,383
THAT SETS, I THINK,
THE WHOLE TONE,

1097
00:51:05,817 --> 00:51:09,721
AND MAKES IT A QUITE DISTINCTIVE
TONE IN CACOPHONOUS AMERICA.

1098
00:51:09,721 --> 00:51:13,191
I THINK PERHAPS
THE MOST MOVING SCENE IN IT

1099
00:51:13,625 --> 00:51:15,360
WAS SHELBY FOOTE

1100
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:21,866
BEING ASKED TO CITE
A PARTICULAR EPISODE OF BRAVERY,

1101
00:51:21,866 --> 00:51:26,638
AND TALKING ABOUT THE STUPENDOUS
BRAVERY OF THE UNION SOLDIERS

1102
00:51:26,638 --> 00:51:30,108
ASSAULTING THE HEIGHTS
AT FREDERICKSBURG.

1103
00:51:30,108 --> 00:51:35,313
BECAUSE THERE YOU HAD
ASTONISHING BRAVERY IN THE RANKS

1104
00:51:35,747 --> 00:51:39,651
AND IMBECILIC, CRIMINALLY
IRRESPONSIBLE LEADERSHIP

1105
00:51:40,085 --> 00:51:41,820
ON THE PART OF THE OFFICERS.

1106
00:51:41,820 --> 00:51:42,687
AND THE DUTY DONE BY THOSE

1107
00:51:42,687 --> 00:51:47,459
ON BEHALF OF OFFICERS
WHO DIDN'T DESERVE IT,

1108
00:51:47,892 --> 00:51:50,929
AND PAYING A HIDEOUS PRICE
FOR A VIRTUE,

1109
00:51:50,929 --> 00:51:55,266
WHICH IS OBEDIENCE AND LOYALTY
AND MILITARY DISCIPLINE.

1110
00:51:55,266 --> 00:51:58,303
MORE CREDIT FOR VALOR IS GIVEN
TO CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS,

1111
00:51:58,303 --> 00:52:02,207
THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE HAD
MORE ELAN AND DASH.

1112
00:52:02,207 --> 00:52:03,942
ACTUALLY I KNOW OF NO BRAVER MEN
IN EITHER ARMY

1113
00:52:03,942 --> 00:52:07,412
THAN THE UNION TROOPS
AT FREDERICKSBURG,

1114
00:52:07,412 --> 00:52:09,581
WHICH IS A SERIOUS DEFEAT.

1115
00:52:09,581 --> 00:52:12,617
BUT TO KEEP CHARGING THAT WALL
AT THE FOOT OF MARYE'S HEIGHTS

1116
00:52:12,617 --> 00:52:14,352
AFTER ALL THE FAILURES
THEY'D BEEN,

1117
00:52:14,352 --> 00:52:19,557
AND THEY WERE ALL FAILURES,
IS A SINGULAR INSTANCE OF VALOR.

1118
00:52:23,027 --> 00:52:24,763
THE CIVIL WAR NOT ONLY
WAS THE CULMINATION

1119
00:52:24,763 --> 00:52:28,233
OF TENSIONS
THAT DEFINED THE COUNTRY

1120
00:52:28,233 --> 00:52:30,835
FROM THE FOUNDING PERIOD TO
THE MIDDLE OF THE 19th CENTURY.

1121
00:52:31,269 --> 00:52:34,305
THE CIVIL WAR, THE WAR ITSELF,

1122
00:52:34,305 --> 00:52:36,040
PREFIGURED MUCH
OF WHAT WAS TO COME

1123
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,209
AND DEFINE THE 20th CENTURY.

1124
00:52:38,209 --> 00:52:42,113
IN THE TRENCHES
AROUND PETERSBURG

1125
00:52:42,113 --> 00:52:45,150
WE SAW
THE FIRST WORLD WAR PREFIGURED.

1126
00:52:45,150 --> 00:52:48,620
IN THE SLAUGHTER AT COLD HARBOR,

1127
00:52:48,620 --> 00:52:52,524
SOMETHING LIKE 7,000 PEOPLE
DIED IN 20 MINUTES,

1128
00:52:52,524 --> 00:52:56,427
IT'S NOT WAR,
IT'S MURDER, AS WAS SAID.

1129
00:52:56,427 --> 00:52:58,596
WE SAW THE SOMME.

1130
00:52:58,596 --> 00:53:04,669
WE SAW, IN OTHER WORDS,
THE NEXT GREAT CATACLYSM.

1131
00:53:04,669 --> 00:53:07,272
IF THE CIVIL WAR
WAS NOT THE FIRST MODERN WAR,

1132
00:53:07,272 --> 00:53:08,573
IT WAS AWFULLY CLOSE.

1133
00:53:08,573 --> 00:53:11,609
THEN THE FIRST MODERN WAR WOULD
HAVE BEEN THE FIRST WORLD WAR,

1134
00:53:11,609 --> 00:53:13,778
WHICH REALLY JUST
CLEARED THE GROUND

1135
00:53:13,778 --> 00:53:15,513
OF A GOOD BIT OF CIVILIZATION,

1136
00:53:15,947 --> 00:53:17,682
AND WE PAID
A HIDEOUS PRICE FOR IT.

1137
00:53:17,682 --> 00:53:21,586
AND AS I SAY, IN PETERSBURG
AND COLD HARBOR WE SAW,

1138
00:53:21,586 --> 00:53:23,321
HAD WE BEEN ALERT TO IT,

1139
00:53:23,321 --> 00:53:28,092
THE HORRIBLE FUTURE
OF THE 20th CENTURY.

1140
00:53:28,092 --> 00:53:32,864
WHAT KEN BURNS' GREAT WORK --
"JAZZ," "BASEBALL,"

1141
00:53:32,864 --> 00:53:35,900
"LEWIS AND CLARK,"
"THE CIVIL WAR,"

1142
00:53:35,900 --> 00:53:37,635
THE FIRST THING THEY SAY

1143
00:53:37,635 --> 00:53:40,672
IS WHAT A TREMENDOUSLY
INTERESTING THING AMERICA IS.

1144
00:53:40,672 --> 00:53:43,274
AMERICANS AREN'T SELF-ABSORBED
IN ANY BAD WAY,

1145
00:53:43,274 --> 00:53:46,744
BUT THEY CERTAINLY
DO KNOW THAT THEY'RE LIVING

1146
00:53:50,215 --> 00:53:53,685
AND THEY WANT TO LIVE,

1147
00:53:53,685 --> 00:53:55,420
AND IT IS GOOD TO LIVE

1148
00:53:55,420 --> 00:53:57,155
WITH A CRICK IN THEIR NECK

1149
00:53:57,155 --> 00:54:01,059
FROM LOOKING BACKWARDS
TO SEE WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

1150
00:54:01,059 --> 00:54:02,794
THEY KNOW THAT WE ARE
THE SUM OF THE PAST,

1151
00:54:03,228 --> 00:54:07,131
THEY KNOW THAT THE NATION,

1152
00:54:07,131 --> 00:54:11,035
THIS GENERATION STANDS ON
THE SHOULDERS OF GREAT PEOPLE,

1153
00:54:11,035 --> 00:54:13,638
SOME ANONYMOUS, SOME FAMOUS --

1154
00:54:13,889 --> 00:54:18,775
AND THEY HAVE A FORTUNATELY
INSATIABLE CURIOSITY ABOUT IT.

1155
00:54:23,543 --> 00:54:27,013
I WAS IN NEW YORK WHEN
I FIRST SAW "THE CIVIL WAR."

1156
00:54:27,446 --> 00:54:30,049
I DIDN'T SEE IT
ALL THE WAY THROUGH, STRAIGHT.

1157
00:54:30,049 --> 00:54:34,387
I SAW IT, I SAW PIECES OF IT,
EPISODES HERE AND THERE,

1158
00:54:34,387 --> 00:54:37,423
BECAUSE I DIDN'T ACTUALLY
TAKE IT SERIOUSLY,

1159
00:54:37,423 --> 00:54:39,158
QUITE FRANKLY.

1160
00:54:39,158 --> 00:54:42,195
BUT, UM...

1161
00:54:42,195 --> 00:54:45,665
I BECAME...

1162
00:54:45,665 --> 00:54:47,400
MESMERIZED BY IT,

1163
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,569
AND I WAS ACTUALLY SHOCKED
AT THE WAY

1164
00:54:49,569 --> 00:54:54,340
IN WHICH THE HUMAN EVENTS,
THE PHOTOGRAPHS,

1165
00:54:54,340 --> 00:54:56,943
AND THE TALKING HEADS
WERE WOVEN TOGETHER SO WELL.

1166
00:54:57,376 --> 00:54:58,678
BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE ABLE
TO SIT THERE,

1167
00:54:59,111 --> 00:55:01,280
YOU KNOW, HOUR AFTER HOUR
AND LOOK AT THAT,

1168
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,015
AND WAIT FOR THE NEXT EPISODE

1169
00:55:03,015 --> 00:55:06,485
AND TALK ABOUT THE EPISODE
THAT THEY HAD ALREADY SEEN.

1170
00:55:06,485 --> 00:55:09,522
AND WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT IT,
THEY TENDED TO TALK ABOUT

1171
00:55:09,522 --> 00:55:10,823
SHELBY FOOTE, MOSTLY --

1172
00:55:10,823 --> 00:55:12,558
THAT'S WHAT I RECALL.

1173
00:55:12,558 --> 00:55:13,860
BECAUSE HE HAD

1174
00:55:14,293 --> 00:55:16,462
SUCH AN ABILITY TO BRING
A THREE-DIMENSIONALITY

1175
00:55:16,462 --> 00:55:18,631
TO THESE FIGURES.

1176
00:55:18,631 --> 00:55:20,800
BECAUSE WE ALWAYS HAVE TO
REMEMBER THAT ROBERT E. LEE,

1177
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:27,740
ABRAHAM LINCOLN, ULYSSES GRANT,
ALL OF THEM --

1178
00:55:27,740 --> 00:55:32,078
ARE JUST TWO-DIMENSIONAL FIGURES
ON PIECES OF PAPER NOW.

1179
00:55:32,078 --> 00:55:35,114
OR THEY'RE A STRING OF WORDS.

1180
00:55:35,114 --> 00:55:39,452
SO, WHENEVER ANYBODY
CAN START TO TALK

1181
00:55:39,452 --> 00:55:44,223
AND YOU ACTUALLY FEEL
THAT YOU GET THE CIRCUMFERENCE

1182
00:55:44,223 --> 00:55:48,561
OF GRANT OR OF LEE,
THE SMELL OF THE BATTLEFIELD,

1183
00:55:48,561 --> 00:55:51,597
THE FEELING OF THE DAY
THAT MEN ARE GETTING READY

1184
00:55:51,597 --> 00:55:53,766
TO GO OUT THERE
AND KILL OTHER MEN

1185
00:55:53,766 --> 00:55:56,802
AND HOPE THAT FEWER
OF THEIR TROOPS WILL BE KILLED

1186
00:55:56,802 --> 00:55:58,971
THAN THOSE ON THE OTHER SIDE,

1187
00:55:58,971 --> 00:56:02,008
THEN YOU'VE GOTTEN TO SOMETHING.

1188
00:56:02,008 --> 00:56:04,610
AND FOOTE WAS ALWAYS ABLE
TO BRING THAT,

1189
00:56:04,610 --> 00:56:08,080
THAT HUMAN QUALITY
TO WHATEVER HE HAD TO SAY.

1190
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,984
OF COURSE,
LINCOLN IS THE GREATEST FIGURE

1191
00:56:11,984 --> 00:56:13,719
IN THE CIVIL WAR.

1192
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,021
ALWAYS --

1193
00:56:15,021 --> 00:56:18,491
BECAUSE HE WAS
THE GREATEST MIND,

1194
00:56:18,491 --> 00:56:20,226
PROBABLY, IN AMERICA
AT THAT TIME.

1195
00:56:20,226 --> 00:56:25,865
AND SO HIS BECOMING BIGGER
THAN THE CONFLICT

1196
00:56:25,865 --> 00:56:29,335
IS THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY THING
ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR, PROBABLY.

1197
00:56:29,335 --> 00:56:31,938
BUT YOU HAVE THIS GUY
WHO WAS ALREADY

1198
00:56:31,938 --> 00:56:35,841
THE MOST BRILLIANT GUY
IN AMERICAN POLITICS

1199
00:56:35,841 --> 00:56:38,444
SINCE PROBABLY JEFFERSON,

1200
00:56:38,444 --> 00:56:40,613
IN TERMS
OF JUST SHEER BRILLIANCE.

1201
00:56:40,613 --> 00:56:44,517
THEN YOU HAVE THIS GUY WHO'S
CONFRONTED WITH SOMETHING

1202
00:56:44,517 --> 00:56:46,686
THAT NOBODY BEFORE HIM
HAD EVER BEEN CONFRONTED WITH.

1203
00:56:46,686 --> 00:56:48,854
THEN YOU HAVE THIS ISSUE

1204
00:56:48,854 --> 00:56:52,758
OVER WHICH THE WAR
IS BEING FOUGHT.

1205
00:56:53,192 --> 00:56:56,662
THEN YOU HAVE BY 1863,

1206
00:56:56,662 --> 00:57:00,132
IT ALL CRYSTALLIZES
IN HIS MIND,

1207
00:57:00,132 --> 00:57:03,602
WHAT ALL THIS SLAUGHTER
IS ABOUT, REALLY.

1208
00:57:03,602 --> 00:57:07,073
SO THAT YOU COME TO SEE
THIS WAR

1209
00:57:07,073 --> 00:57:09,241
AS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE,

1210
00:57:09,241 --> 00:57:11,844
BUT ON A DIFFERENT SCALE
THAN WHAT PEOPLE TEND TO MEAN

1211
00:57:11,844 --> 00:57:14,447
WHEN THEY SAY
PEOPLE LEARN FROM WAR.

1212
00:57:14,447 --> 00:57:17,917
USUALLY WHEN PEOPLE
SAY PEOPLE LEARN FROM WAR,

1213
00:57:17,917 --> 00:57:19,652
THEY MEAN THAT YOU LEARN
ABOUT COURAGE,

1214
00:57:19,652 --> 00:57:21,387
YOU LEARN ABOUT COWARDICE,
YOU LEARN ABOUT ENDURANCE,

1215
00:57:21,387 --> 00:57:23,122
YOU LEARN ABOUT WILL,
YOU LEARN ABOUT

1216
00:57:23,122 --> 00:57:27,026
A LOT OF THESE PARTICULAR THINGS
THAT PEOPLE MUST EXHIBIT

1217
00:57:27,026 --> 00:57:30,496
OR FAIL TO EXHIBIT,
IF A WAR IS TO BE WHAT IT IS,

1218
00:57:30,496 --> 00:57:34,400
WHICH IS THIS ULTIMATE TEST
OF A CERTAIN KIND OF ENGAGEMENT.

1219
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,003
BUT THEY DON'T NECESSARILY
LEARN DURING A WAR

1220
00:57:37,003 --> 00:57:38,738
THE THINGS
THAT LINCOLN LEARNED.

1221
00:57:38,738 --> 00:57:39,605
IN FACT, I DON'T KNOW THAT
ANYBODY ELSE

1222
00:57:39,605 --> 00:57:41,340
IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD

1223
00:57:41,340 --> 00:57:43,509
EVER LEARNED
WHAT LINCOLN LEARNED.

1224
00:57:43,943 --> 00:57:48,714
BECAUSE THE GETTYSBURG ADDRESS
IS SUCH A MONUMENTAL SUMMING UP

1225
00:57:48,714 --> 00:57:51,751
OF WHAT THE WAR
HAD COME TO MEAN,

1226
00:57:51,751 --> 00:57:53,919
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY --
CHURCHILL DIDN'T LEARN

1227
00:57:53,919 --> 00:57:56,088
ANYTHING LIKE THAT
DURING WORLD WAR II,

1228
00:57:56,088 --> 00:57:57,823
NOR DID FDR.

1229
00:57:57,823 --> 00:57:59,125
AND DURING WORLD WAR I,

1230
00:57:59,125 --> 00:58:01,727
I DON'T KNOW
IF ANYBODY LEARNED ANYTHING.

1231
00:58:01,727 --> 00:58:03,896
AND SO I'M NOT SURE
THAT THERE'S ANYTHING LIKE THAT

1232
00:58:04,330 --> 00:58:05,631
ANYWHERE ELSE,

1233
00:58:05,631 --> 00:58:08,234
AND I THINK THAT THAT COMES
THROUGH VERY, VERY CLEARLY.

1234
00:58:08,234 --> 00:58:10,836
THEN, THE CHARACTER OF GRANT,
YOU KNOW, THIS GUY'S A BUM.

1235
00:58:10,836 --> 00:58:13,005
ESSENTIALLY, HE'S A FAILURE,

1236
00:58:13,005 --> 00:58:17,777
UNTIL THE TIME
TO NOT BE A FAILURE COMES ALONG.

1237
00:58:17,777 --> 00:58:20,813
AND THEN HE COMMENCES
TO SHOW SOMETHING.

1238
00:58:20,813 --> 00:58:24,283
SO THAT'S THAT OTHER THING
THAT'S IN THERE, TOO,

1239
00:58:24,283 --> 00:58:27,319
IS THAT THESE PEOPLE
WHO HAVE BEEN UNDERESTIMATED,

1240
00:58:27,319 --> 00:58:30,356
WHOM YOU DIDN'T EXPECT MUCH OF,

1241
00:58:30,356 --> 00:58:34,693
IN THESE SURPRISING WAYS,
TURN OUT TO BE WHAT THEY ARE.

1242
00:58:34,693 --> 00:58:37,296
SEE, BECAUSE THE THING IS,
IS THAT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY SEE

1243
00:58:37,296 --> 00:58:39,031
A TRUE RENDITION
OF THE CIVIL WAR,

1244
00:58:39,465 --> 00:58:42,501
ROBERT E. LEE'S STATURE
ALWAYS FALLS.

1245
00:58:42,501 --> 00:58:46,405
NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU MAY FEEL
THAT HE'S A GUY

1246
00:58:46,405 --> 00:58:48,140
CAUGHT IN A TRAGEDY,

1247
00:58:48,140 --> 00:58:51,177
HE ALWAYS TURNS OUT
TO BE OVERRATED IF THE REAL...

1248
00:58:51,177 --> 00:58:53,345
STORY OF THE CIVIL WAR IS TOLD.

1249
00:58:53,345 --> 00:58:55,081
EVERY TIME YOU GET
THE RIGHT THINGS,

1250
00:58:55,081 --> 00:58:56,816
LIKE, YEAH, HE WAS THERE...

1251
00:58:57,249 --> 00:59:01,153
YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD
HE WAS RUNNING THE OTHER SIDE.

1252
00:59:03,322 --> 00:59:07,226
I THINK AMERICANS WERE READY
FOR "THE CIVIL WAR" BECAUSE

1253
00:59:07,226 --> 00:59:10,262
IT SUMMED A LOT OF THINGS UP.

1254
00:59:10,262 --> 00:59:15,034
AND IT MADE IT POSSIBLE
FOR YOU

1255
00:59:15,034 --> 00:59:20,673
TO FIND THE SOUTH'S PHILOSOPHY
ABSOLUTELY DESPICABLE,

1256
00:59:20,673 --> 00:59:25,878
WHILE RESPECTING THE DIFFICULTY
OF BEING A SOLDIER,

1257
00:59:25,878 --> 00:59:29,782
AND BEING CAUGHT
IN THE MIDDLE OF...

1258
00:59:29,782 --> 00:59:33,686
OF THIS CARNAGE ON A SCALE
THAT NOBODY IN AMERICA

1259
00:59:33,686 --> 00:59:35,421
HAD EVER KNOWN.

1260
00:59:35,421 --> 00:59:38,457
AND THE WAYS
IN WHICH BRADY PHOTOGRAPHS

1261
00:59:38,457 --> 00:59:42,361
AND REPORTS AND SO MANY
OTHER THINGS WERE USED,

1262
00:59:42,361 --> 00:59:44,096
YOU GOT THE REAL FEELING

1263
00:59:44,530 --> 00:59:49,735
OF THE WEIGHT THAT FELL
ON SOCIETY AFTER SHILOH

1264
00:59:49,735 --> 00:59:52,338
OR ANTIETAM, GETTYSBURG --

1265
00:59:52,771 --> 00:59:54,940
THESE MEAT GRINDERS
IN WHICH THESE PEOPLE

1266
00:59:54,940 --> 00:59:57,543
WERE JUST MOWED DOWN.

1267
00:59:57,543 --> 01:00:00,579
I THINK HE LEARNED
THAT GREAT THINGS

1268
01:00:00,579 --> 01:00:03,182
CAN COME FROM GREAT SLAUGHTER.

1269
01:00:03,182 --> 01:00:05,784
'CAUSE GREAT THINGS DON'T ALWAYS
COME FROM GREAT SLAUGHTER.

1270
01:00:05,784 --> 01:00:07,953
USUALLY THE ONLY THING
THAT COMES FROM GREAT SLAUGHTER

1271
01:00:08,387 --> 01:00:12,725
IS THE RAGE THAT PREPARES PEOPLE
TO COMMIT GREAT SLAUGHTER AGAIN,

1272
01:00:12,725 --> 01:00:18,364
OR TO PASS ON A CERTAIN KIND
OF BITTER VISION OF LIFE --

1273
01:00:18,364 --> 01:00:22,701
OR A SENSE OF DISILLUSIONMENT
ABOUT THE SPECIES.

1274
01:00:22,701 --> 01:00:24,870
BUT THE CIVIL WAR IS UNIQUE
IN THAT SOMETHING

1275
01:00:24,870 --> 01:00:27,473
EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT
TOOK PLACE AS A RESULT OF THAT,

1276
01:00:27,473 --> 01:00:30,943
WHICH WAS THE END OF CHATTEL
SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES.

1277
01:00:33,546 --> 01:00:35,281
THE THINGS THAT WERE MOST
INTERESTING TO ME

1278
01:00:35,281 --> 01:00:37,016
ABOUT "THE CIVIL WAR"

1279
01:00:37,016 --> 01:00:40,052
WERE ALL OF
THE HUMAN ELEMENTS TO ME,

1280
01:00:40,052 --> 01:00:42,221
THAT ARE ALWAYS
THE MOST IMPORTANT --

1281
01:00:42,221 --> 01:00:44,390
THE THINGS LIKE
HOW THOSE WOMEN,

1282
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:47,426
IN ONE OF THOSE STATES,
MISSISSIPPI OR SOMETHING,

1283
01:00:47,860 --> 01:00:50,029
HAD THIS HOSPITAL,
IT WAS FOUR OR FIVE OF THEM,

1284
01:00:50,029 --> 01:00:54,366
AND THEY ESSENTIALLY TOOK CARE
OF ALL OF THESE GUYS.

1285
01:00:54,366 --> 01:00:56,535
NOW, BEING A GUY
WHO WAS NEVER BOTHERED

1286
01:00:56,535 --> 01:01:00,439
BY THE IDEA OF THE DEATH OF MEN
IN THE CONFEDERATE ARMY,

1287
01:01:00,439 --> 01:01:04,343
I WAS NOT NECESSARILY
SYMPATHETIC AT THE BEGINNING

1288
01:01:04,343 --> 01:01:06,512
TO WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

1289
01:01:06,512 --> 01:01:08,681
BUT JUST THE SHEER
HUMAN ACHIEVEMENT

1290
01:01:08,681 --> 01:01:13,452
OF BEING ABLE TO TAKE CARE
OF THAT MANY SOLDIERS

1291
01:01:13,452 --> 01:01:15,621
AND BRING SO MANY GUYS THROUGH,

1292
01:01:15,621 --> 01:01:18,657
WAS OF GREAT MOMENT
IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

1293
01:01:18,657 --> 01:01:20,392
I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO,
AT THAT POINT,

1294
01:01:20,392 --> 01:01:23,429
SINCE THEY LOST,
YOU CAN AFFORD NOW

1295
01:01:23,429 --> 01:01:27,766
TO BE GENEROUS AND SAY, WELL,
THOSE WOMEN WERE REMARKABLE.

1296
01:01:27,766 --> 01:01:31,670
YOU KNOW, SEE,
WHEREAS, IF THEY HAD WON,

1297
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:33,839
WE WOULD SAY
IT'S BITCHES LIKE THEM

1298
01:01:33,839 --> 01:01:37,743
THAT ARE THE REASON WHY
THE NORTH LOST THE WAR.

1299
01:01:38,177 --> 01:01:40,346
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S
ALWAYS THE THING

1300
01:01:40,346 --> 01:01:42,081
THAT THE MOST SERIOUS

1301
01:01:42,081 --> 01:01:45,117
HISTORIANS HOPE TO DO,

1302
01:01:45,117 --> 01:01:47,720
IS TO GET PEOPLE
TO REALIZE THAT

1303
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,756
THESE PEOPLE WERE LIKE
THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW.

1304
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:52,925
I MEAN, THAT THEY --

1305
01:01:52,925 --> 01:01:54,660
AND YOU KNOW,
THERE WAS ONLY ONE DIFFERENCE,

1306
01:01:54,660 --> 01:01:57,263
THAT THEY FOUGHT
IN THE CIVIL WAR

1307
01:01:57,263 --> 01:01:58,564
AND THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW DIDN'T.

1308
01:02:00,733 --> 01:02:02,901
I THINK THAT THERE ARE
CERTAIN PARTNERSHIPS

1309
01:02:02,901 --> 01:02:07,239
THAT TAKE PLACE
IN AMERICAN ART,

1310
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:09,408
WHICH IS WHAT BURNS IS AFTER.

1311
01:02:09,408 --> 01:02:12,011
I DON'T THINK HE'S
A DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER

1312
01:02:12,011 --> 01:02:15,047
IN THE MOST PEDESTRIAN SENSE.

1313
01:02:15,047 --> 01:02:17,650
AND I WOULD SAY THAT,
THAT THE...

1314
01:02:17,650 --> 01:02:20,686
RELATIONSHIP THAT BURNS
AND GEOFFREY WARD HAVE

1315
01:02:20,686 --> 01:02:22,855
IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BE
RECOGNIZED AT SOME POINT

1316
01:02:23,289 --> 01:02:25,024
AS A MAJOR RELATIONSHIP.

1317
01:02:25,457 --> 01:02:27,192
I MEAN, YOU HAVE THAT

1318
01:02:27,192 --> 01:02:30,229
THERE WERE CERTAIN GUYS
WHO WROTE THE BEST SCRIPTS

1319
01:02:30,229 --> 01:02:32,831
FOR JOHN FORD --

1320
01:02:32,831 --> 01:02:35,000
THERE WAS A RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN BILLY STRAYHORN

1321
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,603
AND DUKE ELLINGTON
THAT WAS VERY, VERY UNIQUE.

1322
01:02:37,603 --> 01:02:39,338
THERE WAS A RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN CHARLIE PARKER

1323
01:02:39,338 --> 01:02:41,507
AND DIZZY GILLESPIE
THAT WAS UNIQUE.

1324
01:02:41,507 --> 01:02:44,977
THOSE RELATIONSHIPS,
THOSE KINDS OF RELATIONSHIPS

1325
01:02:44,977 --> 01:02:49,748
IN WHICH TWO EQUALS, ONE PLUS
ONE EQUALS MORE THAN TWO.

1326
01:02:49,748 --> 01:02:52,785
SEE, WHEN YOU HAVE ONE PLUS ONE
EQUALS AN EPIC,

1327
01:02:52,785 --> 01:02:54,086
THAT'S MORE THAN TWO.

1328
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:56,255
AND THE FACT THAT THEY
CAN WORK TOGETHER REPEATEDLY

1329
01:02:56,255 --> 01:03:01,026
AND KEEP PERFECTING THE THING
THAT THEY GO AFTER,

1330
01:03:01,026 --> 01:03:03,195
BECAUSE NONE OF THE THINGS
ARE ABOUT ONE THING.

1331
01:03:03,195 --> 01:03:05,798
SEE, IT'S ALWAYS
A DAGWOOD SANDWICH

1332
01:03:06,231 --> 01:03:09,268
THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE
THAT TASTES GOOD.

1333
01:03:09,268 --> 01:03:11,870
SO THAT NOTHING, SO THAT
ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS,

1334
01:03:11,870 --> 01:03:13,605
THAT ARE PUT IN LAYER
AFTER LAYER AFTER LAYER,

1335
01:03:14,039 --> 01:03:16,642
WHEN YOU ACTUALLY MANAGE
TO BITE INTO IT,

1336
01:03:16,642 --> 01:03:19,678
THEN YOU SAY,
MY, THAT TASTES GOOD.

1337
01:03:19,678 --> 01:03:21,847
SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT
THEY'RE AFTER.

1338
01:03:21,847 --> 01:03:26,618
AND I THINK THAT WE WILL SOMEDAY
SEE THIS RECOGNIZED

1339
01:03:26,618 --> 01:03:29,655
AS A MAJOR --
AS A MAJOR PARTNERSHIP

1340
01:03:29,655 --> 01:03:34,426
IN THE ARENA OF DOCUMENTARY
AS ART --

1341
01:03:34,860 --> 01:03:36,595
I THINK THAT'S GOING TO
BE RECOGNIZED.

1342
01:03:38,330 --> 01:03:40,499
I THINK BURNS IS AFTER SOMETHING
IN THE CIVIL WAR

1343
01:03:40,499 --> 01:03:42,234
THAT HE'S ALSO AFTER
IN OTHER THINGS,

1344
01:03:42,234 --> 01:03:44,403
AND THAT IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT

1345
01:03:44,403 --> 01:03:48,741
HOW ALIENATED PEOPLE ARE
ON THE BASIS OF SKIN COLOR,

1346
01:03:48,741 --> 01:03:54,813
AND WHY, AND HOW OFTEN THERE'S
A REAL TRANSFER OF INFORMATION

1347
01:03:54,813 --> 01:03:56,548
FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER.

1348
01:03:56,548 --> 01:04:01,754
AND HOW OFTEN PEOPLE
ACTUALLY COME TO --

1349
01:04:01,754 --> 01:04:04,356
TO HAVE THEIR IDENTITIES CHANGED

1350
01:04:04,356 --> 01:04:06,091
MORE BY COMING IN CONTACT
WITH EACH OTHER

1351
01:04:06,091 --> 01:04:07,826
THAN STAYING APART
FROM EACH OTHER.

1352
01:04:07,826 --> 01:04:11,730
SO THAT I THINK THE SENSE
THAT HE HAS OF LIFE

1353
01:04:11,730 --> 01:04:14,767
IS VERY SIMILAR
TO RALPH ELLISON'S --

1354
01:04:14,767 --> 01:04:18,670
THAT IS, THAT EVERYBODY'S
PART SOMETHING ELSE.

1355
01:04:18,670 --> 01:04:21,273
AND AFTER
ALL OF THE TALK IS OVER,

1356
01:04:21,707 --> 01:04:24,309
BLACK PEOPLE AND WHITE PEOPLE
ARE MORE ALIKE

1357
01:04:24,743 --> 01:04:26,912
THAN THEY ARE LIKE ANYBODY ELSE
ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

1358
01:04:26,912 --> 01:04:28,647
WHICH DOESN'T MEAN THAT
THERE AREN'T MANY,

1359
01:04:28,647 --> 01:04:30,382
MANY VARIATIONS
ON THE FUNDAMENTAL

1360
01:04:30,816 --> 01:04:32,985
AMERICAN ETHOS --

1361
01:04:32,985 --> 01:04:35,587
BUT NO ONE OUTSIDE
THE UNITED STATES

1362
01:04:35,587 --> 01:04:39,057
EVER MISTAKES
A WHITE GUY FROM BOSTON FOR,

1363
01:04:39,491 --> 01:04:42,094
WHO'S GOT AN IRISH LAST NAME
FOR BEING IRISH.

1364
01:04:42,094 --> 01:04:44,696
EXCEPT OTHER
WHITE GUYS IN BOSTON.

1365
01:04:44,696 --> 01:04:48,167
BUT WHEN THEY GO TO IRELAND,
THE IRISH GO,

1366
01:04:48,167 --> 01:04:49,902
OH, YEAH, RIGHT -- AN AMERICAN.

1367
01:04:49,902 --> 01:04:52,070
AND NO BLACK AMERICAN

1368
01:04:52,070 --> 01:04:55,974
IS MISTAKEN FOR AN AFRICAN
IN AFRICA BY ANY MEANS.

1369
01:04:55,974 --> 01:04:59,445
SO WHATEVER IT IS THAT STOPS YOU
FROM BEING MISTAKEN

1370
01:04:59,445 --> 01:05:02,481
DUE TO THE SKIN COLOR
OR LAST NAME OR SOMETHING

1371
01:05:02,481 --> 01:05:05,951
FOR ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE,
WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE LAND

1372
01:05:05,951 --> 01:05:08,120
OF AT LEAST
PART OF YOUR ORIGIN, SAY,

1373
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,590
IS WHAT IT SEEMS TO BE
BURNS IS LOOKING FOR,

1374
01:05:11,590 --> 01:05:13,325
IS WHY THAT IS.

1375
01:05:13,325 --> 01:05:15,494
AND SEE, THE MORE OFTEN
WE ASK THAT QUESTION,

1376
01:05:15,494 --> 01:05:17,229
THE MORE WE INVESTIGATE IT,

1377
01:05:17,229 --> 01:05:18,884
THE CLOSER WE'LL COME
TO BEING ABLE TO DEAL WITH

1378
01:05:18,884 --> 01:05:20,731
WHO WE ACTUALLY ARE.

1379
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:27,230
JAY AND I HAVE BEEN PLAYING
MUSIC TOGETHER SINCE 1978.

1380
01:05:27,230 --> 01:05:30,266
AND WE HAD A BAND TOGETHER IN
THE '80s CALLED "FIDDLE FEVER."

1381
01:05:30,700 --> 01:05:33,302
SOME FRIENDS OF OURS,
MATT GLASER AND RUSS BARENBERG,

1382
01:05:33,736 --> 01:05:35,905
HAD PLAYED ON
"THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE,"

1383
01:05:35,905 --> 01:05:38,508
ONE OF KEN'S,
PROBABLY HIS SECOND FILM,

1384
01:05:38,508 --> 01:05:41,110
AND WE GOT INVOLVED,
THEY BROUGHT US IN,

1385
01:05:43,279 --> 01:05:45,448
YOUAND OUR BAND,K ON
SOMEFIDDLE FEVER, ONES.

1386
01:05:45,448 --> 01:05:48,051
HAD RECORDED THE TUNE
"ASHOKAN FAREWELL,"

1387
01:05:48,484 --> 01:05:49,786
AND I THINK IT WAS RUSS

1388
01:05:50,219 --> 01:05:53,256
WHO GAVE KEN BURNS A COPY
OF THAT RECORDING.

1389
01:05:53,256 --> 01:05:56,726
AND WHEN KEN HEARD THE TUNE
"ASHOKAN FAREWELL"

1390
01:05:56,726 --> 01:05:58,895
I GUESS HE WAS
DEEPLY MOVED BY IT

1391
01:05:58,895 --> 01:06:00,630
AND HE WANTED
TO USE IT IN A FILM.

1392
01:06:01,064 --> 01:06:02,365
AND THEN LATER OF COURSE

1393
01:06:02,365 --> 01:06:07,136
WE PLAYED MANY VERSIONS OF IT
FOR "THE CIVIL WAR."

1394
01:06:07,136 --> 01:06:10,173
[ "ASHOKAN FAREWELL PLAYS" ]

1395
01:06:14,077 --> 01:06:16,245
"ASHOKAN FAREWELL" IS A TUNE

1396
01:06:16,679 --> 01:06:19,282
THAT I WROTE,
UNINTENTIONALLY REALLY.

1397
01:06:19,715 --> 01:06:22,752
IT WAS A MOMENT OF DEEP EMOTION

1398
01:06:23,186 --> 01:06:25,354
AFTER THE SUMMER CAMPS
AT ASHOKAN

1399
01:06:25,354 --> 01:06:27,090
THAT WE RUN EACH SUMMER
HAD ENDED.

1400
01:06:27,090 --> 01:06:28,825
IT WAS THE THIRD SUMMER,

1401
01:06:28,825 --> 01:06:31,427
AND IT WAS AN EXPERIMENT
EVERY SUMMER, YOU KNOW,

1402
01:06:31,427 --> 01:06:32,728
PULLING THIS TOGETHER.

1403
01:06:33,162 --> 01:06:36,199
AND IT HAD BEEN SUCH
A DEEPLY MOVING EXPERIENCE,

1404
01:06:36,199 --> 01:06:40,970
AND THE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE,
AND THE FEELING OF UNITY

1405
01:06:40,970 --> 01:06:42,705
THAT WE HAD
HAD THROUGH MUSIC,

1406
01:06:42,705 --> 01:06:45,741
AND BEING AWAY
FROM THE REGULAR WORLD

1407
01:06:45,741 --> 01:06:47,910
WAS SO IMPORTANT TO ME
THAT WHEN I'D GOTTEN HOME

1408
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:51,380
I HAD A SENSE OF
LOSS AND LONGING.

1409
01:06:51,380 --> 01:06:54,851
AND I WAS LOOKING FOR
A SCOTTISH LAMENT

1410
01:06:54,851 --> 01:06:57,453
THAT WOULD EXPRESS HOW I FELT,

1411
01:06:57,887 --> 01:06:59,188
AND I COULDN'T THINK OF ONE

1412
01:06:59,622 --> 01:07:02,225
SO I JUST STARTED PLAYING
AND THIS TUNE CAME OUT.

1413
01:07:02,658 --> 01:07:04,393
AND IT BROUGHT ME TO TEARS.

1414
01:07:04,393 --> 01:07:06,129
AND EVERY TIME I PLAYED
THE BEGINNING OF IT,

1415
01:07:06,562 --> 01:07:09,599
FOR MONTHS AFTERWARD
I WAS BROUGHT TO TEARS.

1416
01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:11,767
SO IT WAS DIFFICULT
TO PLAY IT FOR ANYONE.

1417
01:07:11,767 --> 01:07:13,936
BUT AFTER A WHILE OUR BAND,
FIDDLE FEVER,

1418
01:07:13,936 --> 01:07:16,973
STARTED PERFORMING IT
AND WE EVENTUALLY RECORDED IT.

1419
01:07:17,406 --> 01:07:19,575
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
ARE SURPRISED

1420
01:07:19,575 --> 01:07:22,612
THAT JAY WROTE THE TUNE,
BECAUSE THEY'RE OF THE MIND SET

1421
01:07:22,612 --> 01:07:26,949
THAT IT MUST HAVE COME
FROM THE 19th CENTURY.

1422
01:07:26,949 --> 01:07:30,853
AND THEN THERE HAVE BEEN SOME
SURPRISING AND FUNNY REACTIONS.

1423
01:07:30,853 --> 01:07:34,757
WE WERE AT A LARGE EVENT
IN CINCINNATI,

1424
01:07:34,757 --> 01:07:36,492
THERE WERE SEVERAL
HUNDRED PEOPLE THERE,

1425
01:07:36,492 --> 01:07:39,529
AND THERE WAS A STRING QUARTET
PLAYING FOR THE PEOPLE.

1426
01:07:39,529 --> 01:07:42,131
AND WE EDGED OUR WAY RIGHT UP
TO THE STRING QUARTET

1427
01:07:42,131 --> 01:07:43,866
AND THEY PLAYED
"ASHOKAN FAREWELL."

1428
01:07:44,300 --> 01:07:46,469
IT WAS AN EVENT
HAVING TO DO WITH HISTORY,

1429
01:07:46,469 --> 01:07:48,638
SO THEY PLAYED
"ASHOKAN FAREWELL."

1430
01:07:48,638 --> 01:07:51,240
AND WHEN THEY FINISHED,
THEY TOOK A BREAK,

1431
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,843
AND JAY WENT UP
TO THE FIRST VIOLINIST,

1432
01:07:53,843 --> 01:07:55,144
AND WE ALL HAD NAME TAGS

1433
01:07:55,144 --> 01:07:56,445
BECAUSE OF
THIS PARTICULAR EVENT,

1434
01:07:56,445 --> 01:07:58,181
AND HE WAS ABOUT
TO SPEAK TO HER,

1435
01:07:58,181 --> 01:07:59,916
AND SHE LOOKED AT
HIS NAME TAG

1436
01:07:59,916 --> 01:08:03,386
AND SHE STARTED GETTING
VERY NERVOUS AND SORT OF --

1437
01:08:03,386 --> 01:08:05,121
SHE TURNED
WHITE AS A SHEET.

1438
01:08:05,121 --> 01:08:07,290
YEAH, HAVING A HARD TIME
BREATHING IT SEEMED.

1439
01:08:07,290 --> 01:08:09,892
SO, THAT WAS HUMOROUS.

1440
01:08:15,965 --> 01:08:19,869
WE WERE ASKED BY KEN TO COME
TO BRATTLEBORO, VERMONT

1441
01:08:19,869 --> 01:08:22,905
AND RECORD MUSIC
FOR "THE CIVIL WAR" SERIES.

1442
01:08:22,905 --> 01:08:27,243
AND THIS WOULD BE A LOT OF
THE TRADITIONAL PERIOD MUSIC.

1443
01:08:27,243 --> 01:08:29,412
AND AS IT TURNS OUT
A LOT OF THAT MUSIC

1444
01:08:29,412 --> 01:08:31,147
IS MUSIC THAT WAS
IN OUR REPERTOIRE

1445
01:08:31,147 --> 01:08:35,484
AS SQUARE DANCE MUSICIANS
AND STRING BAND MUSICIANS.

1446
01:08:35,484 --> 01:08:37,220
AND WE SPENT A DAY,

1447
01:08:37,220 --> 01:08:39,388
PIECES OF SHEET MUSIC
WERE PUT IN FRONT OF US,

1448
01:08:39,388 --> 01:08:41,123
THESE WOULD BE
THE ORIGINAL ARRANGEMENTS,

1449
01:08:41,557 --> 01:08:44,594
AND THEN TOGETHER WITH KEN
WE CREATED NEW ARRANGEMENTS

1450
01:08:44,594 --> 01:08:48,064
TO FIT THE VARIOUS SCENES
THAT HE DESCRIBED.

1451
01:08:48,064 --> 01:08:51,100
THE WAY HE WORKED AT THAT POINT
WAS HE WOULD SIT

1452
01:08:51,534 --> 01:08:53,269
IN THE MIDDLE
OF A GROUP OF MUSICIANS

1453
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:55,438
AND DESCRIBE A MOMENT

1454
01:08:55,438 --> 01:08:57,607
FROM AN EMOTIONAL POINT OF VIEW
IN THE FILM.

1455
01:08:57,607 --> 01:08:59,342
AND WE WOULD TRY
TO EXPRESS THAT

1456
01:08:59,342 --> 01:09:02,378
THROUGH THE TUNE THAT
WE WERE BEING ASKED TO PLAY.

1457
01:09:02,378 --> 01:09:04,981
SO WE WOULD
REINTERPRET THESE TUNES.

1458
01:09:04,981 --> 01:09:06,716
AND IT WAS REALLY FUN

1459
01:09:07,149 --> 01:09:10,186
AND AN EXCITING
DAY OF MUSIC.

1460
01:09:10,186 --> 01:09:12,788
AND WE JUST SAT AND WE
WENT THROUGH TUNE AFTER TUNE

1461
01:09:12,788 --> 01:09:14,957
PLAYING IN ALL DIFFERENT
ENSEMBLES, YOU KNOW,

1462
01:09:14,957 --> 01:09:16,692
MORE INSTRUMENTS,
LESS INSTRUMENTS,

1463
01:09:16,692 --> 01:09:19,295
DIFFERENT FEELS,
DIFFERENT MOODS,

1464
01:09:19,295 --> 01:09:21,030
DIFFERENT EMOTIONS.

1465
01:09:21,030 --> 01:09:24,934
AND IT WAS ALL
JUST TRYING TO GET IDEAS.

1466
01:09:24,934 --> 01:09:27,536
BUT THAT ACTUALLY
BECAME THE FINAL SOUNDTRACK.

1467
01:09:27,536 --> 01:09:31,440
SO, IT WAS SPONTANEOUS
AND HEARTFELT IN THE MOMENT.

1468
01:09:31,874 --> 01:09:33,175
WE DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE

1469
01:09:33,175 --> 01:09:34,477
TO SIT DOWN
AND TRY TO REFINE IT,

1470
01:09:34,477 --> 01:09:36,212
MAKE IT PERFECT.

1471
01:09:36,212 --> 01:09:40,116
YOU KNOW, CREATE A GLOSSED-OVER
VERSION OF IT.

1472
01:09:40,116 --> 01:09:42,718
IT'S A LITTLE RAW
AND VERY HONEST.

1473
01:09:42,718 --> 01:09:44,887
AND I THINK
THAT'S PART OF WHY IT WORKS.

1474
01:09:44,887 --> 01:09:49,659
I REMEMBER ONE SCENE
HE WANTED JACQUELINE SCHWAB

1475
01:09:49,659 --> 01:09:51,827
TO DO A SOLO
PIANO VERSION

1476
01:09:51,827 --> 01:09:53,562
OF "BATTLE CRY
OF FREEDOM."

1477
01:09:53,562 --> 01:09:55,298
AND SO HE DESCRIBED
SOME OF THE PHOTOS

1478
01:09:55,298 --> 01:09:57,466
THAT WERE GOING TO BE
IN THIS SCENE,

1479
01:09:57,466 --> 01:09:59,201
AND  SAID
THIS BATTLE HAS JUST FINISHED

1480
01:09:59,201 --> 01:10:01,370
AND THERE ARE
SEVERAL PHOTOS OF THE DEAD,

1481
01:10:01,804 --> 01:10:03,105
JUST LYING, YOU KNOW,

1482
01:10:03,539 --> 01:10:05,274
AS FAR AS YOU CAN SEE,
BOTH SIDES.

1483
01:10:05,274 --> 01:10:09,612
AND HE WENT ON AND DESCRIBED
A LITTLE MORE.

1484
01:10:10,046 --> 01:10:12,214
SO JACQUELINE NODDED
AND THEN SHE PLAYED

1485
01:10:12,214 --> 01:10:13,949
"BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM,"

1486
01:10:13,949 --> 01:10:15,251
ABOUT 60-SECONDS WORTH,

1487
01:10:15,685 --> 01:10:18,287
ALL THE WAY
THROUGH THE TUNE, VERY SLOWLY

1488
01:10:18,287 --> 01:10:21,324
AND SIMPLY AND SADLY,

1489
01:10:21,324 --> 01:10:23,492
AND WERE ALL SITTING
IN THE ROOM BEING QUIET,

1490
01:10:23,492 --> 01:10:24,794
YOU KNOW, WITH OUR INSTRUMENTS.

1491
01:10:24,794 --> 01:10:28,264
SHE GOT DONE
AND WE COULDN'T SPEAK.

1492
01:10:28,264 --> 01:10:29,999
I MEAN, WE WERE ALL
ALMOST IN TEARS,

1493
01:10:30,433 --> 01:10:33,035
BECAUSE WITH
THAT EXPLANATION BY KEN

1494
01:10:33,035 --> 01:10:35,204
FOLLOWED BY THAT MUSICAL
VERSION BY JACQUELINE,

1495
01:10:35,204 --> 01:10:40,843
WE WERE JUST DEVASTATED,
IT WAS REALLY POWERFUL.

1496
01:10:40,843 --> 01:10:43,446
THE FIRST SCENES
THAT WE SAW

1497
01:10:43,446 --> 01:10:47,350
WERE AT THE END OF OUR DAY
OF RECORDING IN BRATTLEBORO.

1498
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:50,386
WE WENT BACK TO KEN'S HOUSE
IN WALPOLE, NEW HAMPSHIRE,

1499
01:10:50,386 --> 01:10:54,724
AND SHE SHOWED US A TRAILER
THAT USED "ASHOKAN FAREWELL"

1500
01:10:55,157 --> 01:10:56,892
AND WAS
THE FIDDLE FEVER RECORDING,

1501
01:10:56,892 --> 01:10:59,061
AND IT WAS BASICALLY THE OPENING
10 OR 15 MINUTES OF THE FILM.

1502
01:11:01,230 --> 01:11:02,531
AND IT WAS SO POWERFUL.

1503
01:11:02,531 --> 01:11:04,700
WE WERE DEEPLY AFFECTED BY IT,

1504
01:11:04,700 --> 01:11:09,472
AND WE ALL KNEW THIS FILM
WAS GOING TO AFFECT AMERICA

1505
01:11:09,472 --> 01:11:11,640
IN A LOT OF IMPORTANT WAYS.

1506
01:13:10,493 --> 01:13:12,228
I'VE GUESS I'VE PLAYED
"ASHOKAN FAREWELL"

1507
01:13:12,228 --> 01:13:13,963
HUNDREDS OR THOUSAND OF TIMES.

1508
01:13:14,396 --> 01:13:16,131
PEOPLE WONDER,
YOU KNOW, HOW CAN YOU

1509
01:13:16,131 --> 01:13:17,433
NOT TIRE OF IT,

1510
01:13:17,433 --> 01:13:19,602
OR STILL PLAY IT WITH FEELING?

1511
01:13:19,602 --> 01:13:22,204
AND I FEEL LUCKY
THAT THIS IS A TUNE

1512
01:13:22,204 --> 01:13:23,506
THAT I'VE BECOME KNOWN FOR,

1513
01:13:23,506 --> 01:13:25,241
BECAUSE I LOVE IT SO MUCH.

1514
01:13:25,241 --> 01:13:28,711
AND I RECEIVE LETTERS EVERY WEEK
STILL FROM PEOPLE

1515
01:13:28,711 --> 01:13:31,313
WHO HAVE PERS
OF HOW IT'S AFFECTED THEM.

1516
01:13:31,747 --> 01:13:35,651
SO FOR ME, I MIGHT NOT
PLAY IT FOR MYSELF NOW,

1517
01:13:35,651 --> 01:13:37,386
BUT I KNOW I'M PLAYING IT

1518
01:13:37,386 --> 01:13:39,555
FOR SOMEBODY
WHO CARES ABOUT IT OUT THERE,

1519
01:13:39,555 --> 01:13:43,459
AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT
POSSIBLE TO CONTINUE PLAYING IT,

1520
01:13:43,459 --> 01:13:46,061
AND PLAYING IT LIKE I MEAN IT.

1521
01:13:46,061 --> 01:13:50,399
ONE OF THE MOST
POWERFUL MOMENTS

1522
01:13:50,399 --> 01:13:52,134
IN "THE CIVIL WAR" SERIES
FOR MANY PEOPLE

1523
01:13:52,134 --> 01:13:55,604
IS THE READING
OF SULLIVAN BALLOU'S LETTER

1524
01:13:55,604 --> 01:13:57,773
WITH "ASHOKAN FAREWELL"
BEHIND IT.

1525
01:13:57,773 --> 01:14:02,545
AND WHEN I FIRST HEARD THAT
I WAS JUST HIT RIGHT INSIDE.

1526
01:14:02,545 --> 01:14:06,448
KEN SAW THE CONNECTION
AND PUT THOSE TOGETHER

1527
01:14:06,448 --> 01:14:09,051
AND IT'S COSMIC, I GUESS.

1528
01:14:09,051 --> 01:14:12,521
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
VERY DEEPLY MOVED BY THAT.

1529
01:14:12,521 --> 01:14:15,124
I REMEMBER KEN
SHOWING US THE LYRICS,

1530
01:14:15,124 --> 01:14:18,160
OR THE WORDS
TO SULLIVAN BALLOU'S LETTER.

1531
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,329
IT WAS A TATTERED
PIECE OF PAPER,

1532
01:14:20,763 --> 01:14:22,932
OF COURSE NOT FROM
150 YEARS AGO --

1533
01:14:22,932 --> 01:14:25,534
IT WAS ONE THAT KEN
HAD TYPED OUT HIMSELF

1534
01:14:25,534 --> 01:14:26,835
AND BEEN CARRYING
IN HIS WALLET

1535
01:14:27,269 --> 01:14:29,438
FOR PROBABLY
10 OR 15 YEARS.

1536
01:14:29,438 --> 01:14:32,474
SO IT WAS A LETTER THAT
ALWAYS MEANT A LOT TO HIM,

1537
01:14:32,474 --> 01:14:35,511
AND IT MEANS A LOT
TO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NOW.

1538
01:14:35,945 --> 01:14:37,246
WE JUST GOT AN E-MAIL

1539
01:14:37,246 --> 01:14:39,848
FROM SOMEONE
WHO TAKES THE LETTER --

1540
01:14:39,848 --> 01:14:43,319
THEY LIVE A FEW MILES
FROM SULLIVAN BALLOU'S GRAVE,

1541
01:14:43,319 --> 01:14:44,620
THIS IS WHAT
THEY WROTE TO US,

1542
01:14:44,620 --> 01:14:45,921
AND THEY TAKE THE LETTER

1543
01:14:45,921 --> 01:14:47,656
AND READ IT PERIODICALLY
OVER THE GRAVE.

1544
01:14:47,656 --> 01:14:48,958
OVER THE GRAVE.

1545
01:14:48,958 --> 01:14:50,259
YEAH.

1546
01:14:50,259 --> 01:14:53,295
THE TUNE "ASHOKAN FAREWELL"
IS OUT THERE IN THE WORLD NOW

1547
01:14:53,295 --> 01:14:55,464
AND IT HAS ITS OWN LIFE ALMOST.

1548
01:14:55,464 --> 01:14:57,633
AND WE HEAR STORIES ABOUT IT
EVERY NOW AND THEN.

1549
01:14:57,633 --> 01:14:59,368
SOMEBODY WILL COME BACK
FROM IRELAND AND SAY,

1550
01:14:59,368 --> 01:15:01,103
OH, I HEARD IT IN A PUB

1551
01:15:01,103 --> 01:15:02,838
IN THIS LITTLE TOWN
IN WESTERN IRELAND,

1552
01:15:02,838 --> 01:15:05,441
OR, YOU KNOW,
IT JUST POPS UP.

1553
01:15:05,765 --> 01:15:08,115
BUT IT'S GOT A LIFE
OF ITS OWN NOW.