1 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:15,360 (sighs) 2 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,040 This brings me back. 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:18,120 1988. 4 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:20,640 Where it all began. 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,760 The career for want of a better word. 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,200 You will often get a warning before certain TV programmes saying that 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,800 this programme may contain strong language which some viewers may offensive. 8 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,120 This is one of those shows. 9 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:42,000 How did that gobshite get on the television?! 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,760 You're more likely to swear if you've got a large vocabulary 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,960 and I think that goes to why perhaps the Irish swear more. 12 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,680 There'll be lots of fuck you, fuck this, fuck that, fuck off. 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,400 Hearing you curse on stage is like hearing your dad curse. 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,200 You think oh Jesus this is serious! 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,240 Ah for fuck's sake, ref, get a grip! 16 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,960 The minute you use a word 'fuck' as a referee on a football pitch 17 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:10,080 to dictate to a player, you've lost them. 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,280 (laughing) What's wrong with you? 19 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,080 You know bleeding well what's wrong with me. 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,240 How do you really want to ruin someone's honour? 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,720 You want to bring the darkness down on them. 22 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,760 With all due respect in the most unparliamentary language (BLEEP) you, Deputy Stagg. F*** you. 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,480 I haven't gone through a day in this office not swearing at someone. 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,560 You swore in the Mansion House? 25 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,600 Shit and fuck are bad words but it's just a bit of fun. 26 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,360 Prick is just as bad as shit and fuck. You're not allowed say any of them. 27 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:38,520 What about cunt? 28 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,080 Sweet mother of holy divine fuck! 29 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,440 What does that even mean? 30 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,040 We curse a lot in this country. 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,560 We swear casually and fluently and with great relish. We love it. 32 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,040 Ya bollocks is often a term of affection. 33 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,600 Now Oscar Wilde thought it lacked imagination and visitors to Ireland 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,680 are often shocked altogether by our salty language. 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,720 So why do we do it? 36 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:05,560 Are we just rebellious by nature? 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,360 Irreverent, deeply frustrated or are we just fun-loving colourful people? 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,320 Do we have a lot to swear about? 39 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,520 Is it something to be celebrated or ashamed of? 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,200 And where do you draw the line? 41 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,600 Do we have a fucking problem? 42 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:22,880 # # 43 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,800 I've always been curious about why we swear generally. 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,800 What are the psychological and linguistic reasons for cursing and swearing. 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:46,320 But I'm more interested in our unique relationship with swearing in this country and the way we communicate. 46 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,200 What does it say about us? About who we are? 47 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,640 According to Mark Twain we begin to swear before we can talk. 48 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:00,800 I think there is some merit in that. 49 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,720 I learned to talk in Carrickmacross Co. Monaghan 50 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,160 and probably experienced the illicit thrill of bad language for the first 51 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,880 time here at St Joseph's National School. 52 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:22,680 I kind of enjoyed going to school like I never didn't want to go to school or anything. 53 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,200 I quite liked it. 54 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,320 Most of the memories are playing football outdoors or sitting in the 55 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,440 classroom looking out onto the field of dreams. 56 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,320 There was very little bad language in my house growing up. 57 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:41,360 In school the words the boys would use would be very innocent really. 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:48,280 It would be words like bum and maybe when you were a little bit older diddies. 59 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:56,480 They were funny words but you got a little bit of a thrill saying them. 60 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,520 I certainly never used the f-word when I was at school. 61 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,880 It would be more name calling. 62 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,800 If somebody was being mean to you, you need a word to describe that person 63 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,440 and this is where bad language begins. 64 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,560 It's where it starts from in a sense. 65 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,600 You need to be able to put people in their place. 66 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,720 I remember for example being called a skitter. 67 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,320 You'd be regularly called a skitter. 68 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,840 It was usually something that was directed at kids by adults. 69 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:30,000 You little skitter. 70 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,000 And then someone tells you much later that skitter literally means diarrhoea. 71 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,600 It's an old Scandinavian word which they use quite a lot in Northern Ireland and in the Border region. 72 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,480 So skitter is a good word. 73 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:49,360 So to be called a skitter...you think OK and it begins to make sense. 74 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:50,640 The penny drops. 75 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,920 I don't like him, he's a skitter and I certainly don't like diarrhoea. 76 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,200 That makes perfect sense. 77 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,800 So then you begin to use the word skitter to describe someone who's really annoyed you. 78 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,560 Who might have pushed you in the playground during a game of football. 79 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:05,520 You skitter. 80 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,800 I wasn't really aware of how much I swore until I had kids myself. 81 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,480 I never heard my parents swear, either of them. 82 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:24,760 I never swore in front of them to this day. 83 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,280 Even though they're much more relaxed about it now. 84 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,440 I still wouldn't swear in front of them. 85 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:35,160 But when it comes to my own kids, I've always had appalling double standards. 86 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,080 It would be a bit like with the drink, lecturing the teenagers 87 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,200 about the perils of alcohol and the standards expected in this house 88 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,560 while you're actively uncorking a second bottle of wine. 89 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,680 You don't have a leg to stand on. 90 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,440 I suppose I would have a... 91 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,440 We would have had a policy probably not verbalised about swearing. 92 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,040 The kids knew not to swear. 93 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,040 We certainly tried not to curse in front of them. 94 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,440 Probably failed to a certain extent. 95 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:03,760 They didn't curse much in the house growing up. 96 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:04,840 < Motherfuckers! 97 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,120 Motherfucker - it's my new thing. 98 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,720 Watched this film last night. My dad got it off pirate Pauline 99 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,000 and it's about these two lads and they wear these crackin' suits 100 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,200 and they rock about just shooting people and eatin' cheeseburgers 101 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,960 and they're all motherfucker this, motherfucker that. 102 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,280 It's got your man in it. 103 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:24,080 Outside Galway I met a friend of mine who is not just a leading comedian 104 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:29,320 known for his colourful use of language but also a parent of many children. 105 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:35,200 With most Irish parents, the first time their child curses is a moment of delight. 106 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,640 I just want to find a quote here. 107 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,040 I came across this quote by an Irish writer Emma Comerford 108 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,520 who wrote a book called Irish Bitches Be Crazy. 109 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,040 She said, "The guaranteed way to become the most celebrated child 110 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:53,120 in an Irish family is to start swearing at a very young age." 111 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,720 I think there's truth in that. Totally. 112 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,640 Cursing is the uncontrolled moment. 113 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:05,120 It's where you slightly...you curse because you don't fully understand what's happening or you just... 114 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:14,200 There's a gap between what is felt and what is thought and your ability to express it. 115 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:19,280 I was thinking that if Christ was Irish and walking around with Apostles, 116 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,840 they'd be "what the fuck, what? 117 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:26,960 Fuck off!" 118 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,640 He would have been clearing the temple full of the moneylenders. 119 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,200 "Get the fuck out...." 120 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:43,080 It is about the desire to be out of control and the expression of the fact that you are out of control. 121 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,920 I think that stand-up has more in common with James Joyce 122 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,880 than it does with Seamus Heaney. 123 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,840 Stand-up is the uncontrolled moment. 124 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,280 A few words of warning about the show just to get us started. 125 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,440 In America there'd be lots of cursing. AUDIENCE LAUGHS 126 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,240 There'd be lots of fuck you, fuck this, fuck that, fuck off, 127 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,160 who the fuck, when the fuck, you fucking fucker ya. 128 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:10,000 Fuck off. 129 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,000 There's a reason I curse so much. 130 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,120 It's not to do with a lack of vocabulary. 131 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,440 It's because I'm an Irish person. 132 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,000 I'm an Irish person speaking the English language. 133 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,920 And the English language doesn't suit my soul. 134 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:30,600 I should be speaking the Irish language but I don't understand a fucking word of it! LAUGHTER 135 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,320 I would have a sort of policy where I wouldn't curse on stage. 136 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,440 But I wouldn't mind if one slips in. 137 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,120 But I do find myself cursing on stage an awful lot when I'm under pressure. 138 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,240 When your back is to the wall if you've got a rowdy audience 139 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,880 or if you've trying out new material and you're not very confident. 140 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,200 And you want to make it a little bit punchier or a bit throwaway. 141 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:53,760 Like I don't care. 142 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,640 Hearing you curse on stage is like hearing your dad curse. 143 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,320 You think "oh Jesus this is serious". 144 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,360 That's my sense of it. 145 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,440 I get that as well. 146 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:14,880 You definitely feel like if you use them sparingly it can have a much more profound effect on an audience. 147 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,720 Hearing me curse is like hearing a wino curse. 148 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,360 You kinda go...what else would you expect? 149 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:20,800 Ah yeah. 150 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,760 We tend to exaggerate everything. 151 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,800 So we exaggerate our passions a little, 152 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,320 we exaggerate our frustrations. 153 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,840 I guess maybe it was partly to do with the fact that the physical 154 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,240 reality that we had for so long was so oppressive and down 155 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,520 that it was the only way we could fly was just through language 156 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,160 and dancing and amplifying things that couldn't be controlled by the oppressor. 157 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,480 # # 158 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,360 Let's just say when it comes to cursing, swearing and blaspheming, 159 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,040 we have form. 160 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,360 We've had the reputation for swearing for a very long time. 161 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:09,240 As far back as 1720, Jonathon Swift wrote a short satire called The Swearer's Bank. 162 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,760 The idea being that everyone paid a shilling for every time they swore. 163 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,440 He says, "It is almost unnecessary to mention that this has become 164 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,240 a pet vice among us and though age renders us unfit for other vices, 165 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,720 yet this where it takes hold never leaves us." 166 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,120 So then he does his calculations. 167 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,280 "It is computed by geographers that there are 2 million in this kingdom of Ireland 168 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:36,360 of which number there may be said to be 1 million of swearing souls." 169 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,960 He reckoned that the proceeds would go towards charitable schools, 170 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,880 clergymen's widows and sailor's bastards. 171 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,680 In 1913, George Bernard Shaw outraged polite society with the word 'bloody' 172 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:53,200 in his play Pygmalion. 173 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,000 James Joyce wrote shockingly filthy letters to his wife Nora Barnacle. 174 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:02,280 And I've come to Gort Go. Galway to speak to somebody who's continuing that fine tradition, 175 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:07,760 the writer of The Glorious Heresies, who once went by the name of Sweary Lady on social media. 176 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,360 I read The Glorious Heresies. I loved it. 177 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,760 I know it was described by one reviewer as a fizzing, foul-mouthed debut, 178 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,080 instead of just a brilliant debut. 179 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,120 But I sense with you as a writer that that rhythm is very important. 180 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,640 You are trying to capture the way we speak. 181 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,160 Sometimes we use foul language to punctuate our sentences 182 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,880 or to give our sentences extra oomph. 183 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,600 Yeah, there's a musicality to it almost. 184 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,560 I feel like with Irish people, every word is chosen for a reason. 185 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,880 But it may just be for rhythmical reasons. 186 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,080 You're saying if I really want this sentence to push through 187 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,800 I'm going to have to go "Pu-du-du-du-du..." 188 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,240 Therefore fuck is what is needed in this particular part. 189 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,560 It's very much a part of our culture. Yeah. 190 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:57,360 It seems to me that we do swear an awful lot. 191 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:57,800 Mmmm. 192 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:04,080 I think that the Irish have such a love of language and a love of storytelling, 193 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,440 a love raámeés-ing and a love of tall tales and lies. 194 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,920 There's a lot of delight in words in general. 195 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:17,120 So why not use our swears if we know that one applied here will make the sentence funny? 196 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,960 Or one applied here will make the sentence really get to you. 197 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,400 Beyond that as well Irish people when we speak, we're trying to be entertaining as well. 198 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,600 You know what we say about Irish people trying to have a conversation 199 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,040 is that nobody is really listening, they're just waiting for the gap 200 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,560 to get in there with their thing. 201 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:35,480 Absolutely. 202 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,440 Like Roddy Doyle. He kind of changed the game a bit certainly 203 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,600 Would he have been an influence on you for example? 204 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:48,440 Hugely. It's kind of like I can track my life before Roddy and after Roddy. 205 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,200 I had always written as a kid so I was writing little stories about ponies and everything like that. 206 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,360 You can kind of see... Fuckin' ponies. 207 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,120 It became fuckin' ponies. 208 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,240 You can kinda see where Roddy started having an influence. 209 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,520 Suddenly I was writing about Irish kids on Irish council estates 210 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,200 saying bold Irish words. 211 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,960 Ah, there you are, Dessie. How's it going? 212 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,840 You keep your hands off me. What's wrong with you? 213 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,560 You know bleedin' well what's wrong with me. 214 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,160 You were saying things about Sharon. You've got it wrong. 215 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:24,360 Wrong, me bollocks. 216 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,960 No, honestly, I swear. 217 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:26,880 Me bollocks! 218 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,440 # # 219 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,480 Another admirer of Roddy Doyle and a connoisseur of so-called 220 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,560 working-class language got his PhD here at Trinity College Dublin. 221 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,600 I know you're a big fan of Roddy Doyle and in the Barrytown Trilogy 222 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,800 there's 383 fucks, there's 66 bollockses, there's any number of shites, 223 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,480 there's a few gooters and a geebag. (LAUGHS) 224 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:58,120 I know some people criticised Roddy Doyle at the time for the way that community was represented. 225 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,720 I think that criticism was really wrong because it's very obviously affectionate 226 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,280 and it's very obviously... 227 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,480 I think Roddy Doyle gets denigrated mainly or under-appreciated 228 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:12,720 because it's humorous. 229 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,960 But it's much harder as a writer to make somebody laugh than cry. 230 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,160 You talk a lot about the ebullience of the way Dublin people speak. 231 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,280 Can you give us an example of that? 232 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,560 The dialect here. 233 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:32,360 I remember like "by stuttering Christ" is one that I used to hear around Dublin and it's very strange. 234 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,000 I don't know the etymology of that. 235 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,920 Disease is one of the lesser known categories of swearing. 236 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,080 So I think it's Italian. 237 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,560 They'll drop plates or something and they'll say "Cholera". 238 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,080 But if you ask people what's a swear word related to disease, 239 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,600 they won't generally know. 240 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,240 And then you say "poxy". We use it all the time. 241 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,600 It's in Shakespeare again. It's in Hamlet. 242 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,640 "Begin, murderer. Pox..." 243 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,160 And "lousy" as well. 244 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,760 Lousy is another one. 245 00:14:58,760 --> 00:14:59,920 Lousy is one that is getting eroded. 246 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,480 This is the thing I suppose. 247 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,200 The dialect is getting eroded all time. 248 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,160 I think in Ireland generally we pretend that it's classless 249 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,360 unlike the British which is very clear class structures. 250 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,760 But here we pretend that that doesn't exist which is clearly untrue. 251 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,600 Do you think there's something in it that everyone wants to show that they're salt of the earth? 252 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,280 I remember as a kid you'd be walking up to school 253 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,640 and if you passed certain people, even if you passed girls 254 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,560 and you wanted to impress them, 255 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,960 you'd just suddenly erupt into cursing. 256 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,640 Just thinking the girls will love this. 257 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,000 Did it work? 258 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,120 No! Of course it didn't. 259 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,760 They're just going what's wrong with him? 260 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,960 But it's definitely a way of fostering informality and intimacy. 261 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,480 Informality often implies intimacy. 262 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,160 If you can chat freely with somebody 263 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,240 and you feel you're not being scrutinised, you feel a bit closer to them. 264 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,160 So "ah for fuck's sake". 265 00:15:53,360 --> 00:16:00,040 You know that nobody's watching their ps and qs around you and it brings you closer together. 266 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,000 Frankie's got a point. 267 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,640 Our swearing is a communal thing. 268 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,200 It's kind of tribal. 269 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,400 When you trust the people around you, that's when you can really let rip. 270 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,520 Arse is such a good word. 271 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,480 Arse. It's better than ass. 272 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,680 You can get your tongue around it so to speak. 273 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,640 Arse. 274 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,560 It's more fun to say. 275 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,560 And hole. It's a good word too. 276 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,440 I will in me hole. 277 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,720 Put the two words together. Arsehole. 278 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,440 Got the best of both words. 279 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:34,600 Arsehole. 280 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,320 It's a fabulous term of abuse. 281 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,480 It has the advantage of being gender neutral too. 282 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,520 # It was Christmas Eve, babe in the drunk tank.... 283 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,600 What constitutes bad language evolves over time. 284 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,560 I mean even in my lifetimes it's changed dramatically. 285 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,240 I think the best example of that is you take a song Fairytale of New York 286 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:07,240 where in 1987 when that song first came out, Top of the Pops were forced to censor the word arse. 287 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,320 Arse was considered inappropriate for prime time television. 288 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,320 # You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot 289 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,400 # Happy Christmas, your arse, I pray God it's our last... 290 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,880 20 years later, the big controversy was slur words which are totally unacceptable now. 291 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:29,480 Have any of you ever been standing at a pedestrian crossing when a car goes by 292 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:35,960 and in it are a bunch of lads and they lean out the window as they go by 293 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,880 and shout "fag" and throw a milk carton at you. 294 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,040 Now it doesn't really hurt. 295 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,360 After all it's just a wet carton and anyways they're right. 296 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,680 I am a fag. (chuckling) 297 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,200 So it doesn't hurt but it feels oppressive. 298 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,640 The kind of slurs that we would have bandied around the playground as kids 299 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,320 have become the ultimate taboo words now. 300 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,520 The people who are victimised by their words are reclaiming them 301 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:11,000 for themselves and you wouldn't want to use them when you realise the damage they do. 302 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,800 It's interesting how the k-word is much more socially acceptable than the n-word in Ireland. 303 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,880 So there isn't a realisation yet of how stigmatised and oppressed Travellers are. 304 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,640 If you grow up thinking that you're no good and if you read the papers 305 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,520 thinking that you're no good and they're telling you you're scum 306 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,000 and you go to school and you get segregated 307 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,120 and you get called "knacker" and "pikey" every single day, 308 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:33,640 it kills your self-esteem. 309 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,920 It is the most touchy subject but this kind of focus on language 310 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:38,840 rather than... 311 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,280 You can keep changing the language but if people are still being discriminated against 312 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,760 and still hated on the basis of who they are, 313 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,360 changing the language doesn't really address that. 314 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,080 For me it's a more immaterial thing. 315 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,800 Language doesn't change by the government imposing diktats. 316 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,840 It changes from the ground up. 317 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,080 Words like the n-word are now almost...hopefully most people know 318 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,720 that is a word that is simply unacceptable 319 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,800 and that's thanks to pushback. 320 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,360 That's thanks to black communities rising up against that word 321 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,720 and saying no, don't use it. 322 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,760 It's due to activism. 323 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,120 It's due to shaming. 324 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:22,440 It's due to...particularly now in the age of social media. 325 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:26,440 # # 326 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,400 I was keen to meet a high profile politician who was endured a deluge 327 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,680 of racist abuse on social media. 328 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,080 But like most Irish people, she still loves swearing herself. 329 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,160 A lot of people question whether I'm Irish or not 330 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,120 but I always laugh and say the perfect proof of how I'm Irish 331 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,080 is my potty mouth more than anything else. 332 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,960 Why do you think we swear more than others if we do? 333 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,720 There's no statistical evidence to say that we do but we feel that we do. 334 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:54,840 It does feel like we do. 335 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,920 I haven't gone through a day in this office not swearing at something! 336 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,240 You swore in the Mansion House. 337 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,560 I'm sure I'll be getting letters now. Thanks, Ardal. 338 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,680 If I'm conversing with the other half or my friends on the phone 339 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,000 there will be an element of "see you later, you gobshite". 340 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,440 It's that kind of friendly banter. 341 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,920 We are this community. We are this tribe more than anything else. 342 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,160 It's almost like our way of showing love and hugging someone. 343 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,000 Now saying that there are things I wouldn't say. 344 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,360 There are things that I know people would find very offensive and I draw the line at that. 345 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,240 You would know exactly what you should or should not go into. 346 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,880 Things like racial slurs or based on sexual orientation or personal appearance. 347 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,840 Those slurs are really taboo now in a way that they weren't even 20 years ago. 348 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,680 That has changed a lot. Hasn't it? Yeah... 349 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,320 And I guess you with your high profile career in politics, 350 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,480 you get a lot of that. I do. 351 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:04,080 With people who come out with racial slurs or slurs based on gender or sexuality of religion, 352 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,840 even in a banter environment, maybe they don't mean it 353 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,400 but then instead of just saying you're a terrible person for saying that, 354 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,920 you call them out on it and explain why. 355 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,520 With a racial slur it goes deep-rooted. 356 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:17,640 It actually division. 357 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:25,120 So someone calling me something like a "chink" or anything to do with my 358 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:32,800 skin colour is a massive difference than calling me a gobshite or a geebag or any of those things. 359 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,000 It's not rooted in something I can't change. 360 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,680 It comes back to the difference between language and obscenities 361 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,000 that are directed to you that is purposely there to cut you out. 362 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,480 And there are language and obscenities that are said to you 363 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,160 to make you part of the fold. 364 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,320 Language changes. Taboos change. Society changes. Ireland has changed. 365 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,800 I've come to Holy Cross Abbey in Tipperary, 366 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,240 to get a sense of the power of certain words, 367 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,440 and how they can lose that power over time. 368 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,640 The words we consider to be bad words nowadays, 369 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,160 a lot of them would have to do with bodily functions, and sexual acts. 370 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,400 We snigger at words like arse, and shit, and piss. 371 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,240 But of course, those words had no power hundreds of years ago, 372 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,160 when people did their business outside. 373 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,400 So there was no concept of privacy. 374 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,320 Even rich people didn't have a toilet. 375 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,840 So it wasn't until we shut the door behind us, 376 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,120 that we became prudish about those kind of words. 377 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,040 So originally, 378 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,560 the worst thing you could say, to offend God, 379 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,200 was to take God's name in vain. 380 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,560 Or to be blasphemous in anyway. 381 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,640 I mean the punishment for blasphemy, according to Leviticus and the bible, 382 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,240 you should be stoned to death. 383 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,920 Thomas Aquinas thought that blasphemy, and taking the Lord's name in vain, 384 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:03,560 was a worst crime than murder. # music # 385 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,120 Linguists tell us that in terms of swear words, 386 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,440 or the we use when we swear, 387 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,720 we use at the time the words that are most potent. 388 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,880 And you can imagine we'll say, in the Middle Ages, 389 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,760 in the early modern period, and even up until, you know, 390 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,720 the last hundred, hundred and fifty years, 391 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,960 the name of Jesus, and the name of saints and so on, 392 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,880 were considered very sacred, and had a potency. 393 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,480 We still kind of invoke the name of God today. 394 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,120 Like people will say Jesus or God, you know, in frustration. 395 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,760 Like is that frowned upon by the church? 396 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,800 There were various measures brought in to try to 397 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,320 emphasise the importance of the sacred name. So for instance, 398 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,760 in the 20th century, a Dominican called Father Finbarr Ryan 399 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,360 sent a letter to the Irish Independent. 400 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,560 Basically announcing the formation of this thing called the White Star League. 401 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,720 Against blasphemy, and the taking the name of Jesus in vain. 402 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,480 Bit like the Pioneers. Exactly like the Pioneers. 403 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,040 Instead of wearing a pioneer pin, 404 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,000 you wore a little white star on your coat lapel for instance. 405 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,240 # music # 406 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,840 What about these minced oaths then? Like obviously, golly, gosh, jeepers, 407 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,080 Yeah. jeeze. 408 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,160 Yeah, exactly so that was a way of trying to take the edge of it. 409 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:25,080 Trying to say something, but yet not being able to say the word outright. 410 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,200 And I mean, that's international of course. 411 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:33,120 I mean, even cripes, crikey are all to do with Christ. 412 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,400 Blimey, if I'm swearing falsely well let God blind me. 413 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,560 I actually think it's like a collection to the religion, 414 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,960 because... it's usually, like it's almost like a prayer to heaven. 415 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,440 Like you're kind of asking for divine intervention to spare you from whatever... 416 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,040 Or how people might even say, 'Jesus Mary and Joseph.' 417 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,600 And someone might even through in the donkey with it. 418 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,480 (laughter) Like you know, so. 419 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,360 Like high stakes poker. 420 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,240 Exactly. 421 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,720 There's also this idea that poets have some sort of 422 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,240 super natural quality, that they can actually curse. 423 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,840 One beautiful example is, 424 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,640 is from the 17th century. 425 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,240 And it goes as follows; 426 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,160 (speaks Irish) 427 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,000 which roughly translates as, 'May you have typhoid, 428 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,760 may you have hookworm, may you have swine flu, make you have bird flu, 429 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,800 may you have difficulty in urinating, 430 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,280 may you have a breast ulcer, (laughs) 431 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:37,920 may you have scurvy.' 432 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,200 (speaks Irish) 'May you have liver disease.' 433 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,280 Now, when he's finished with ya, with that... 434 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,720 It beats, 'You're only a bollox.' 435 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,440 Exactly... (laughter) 436 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:53,400 The language, unbelievable! Feck this and feck that. 437 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,240 Yes Mrs Doyle. Ya big bastard, 438 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,880 oh dreadful language. Ya big hairy arse, ya big fecker. Fierce stuff. 439 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:03,560 And of course, 440 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,120 the F word, Father. 441 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,800 The bad F word. 442 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,920 Worse than feck, you know the one I mean. 443 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,360 Yes I do Mrs Doyle. 444 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,320 Eff you. Eff your effin' wife. 445 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,640 Oh, I dunno why they have to use language like that. 446 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:20,440 I'll stick this effin' pitch fork up your hole. 447 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,240 Oh that was another one, oh yes. 448 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,760 I see what you mean, Mrs Doyle. Bastard this and bastard that. 449 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,200 You can't move for the bastards in her novels. 450 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,040 It's wall to wall bastards. 451 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,120 Is it Mrs Doyle? Ya bastard. 452 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:33,880 Anyway. Ya fecker, ya bollox. 453 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,800 Get your bollox out of my face... 454 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,360 (birds chirping) 455 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,360 Bollocks is a very versatile word, and it's clearly an English word, 456 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,680 but in Ireland we use it in unique ways. For example, 457 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,760 we will use it as a descriptive noun to describe someone 458 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,200 who's being very irritating. 459 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,800 Like if there's a tall person sitting in front of you in the cinema, 460 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,600 you go, 'Lanky bollocks.' 461 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,400 You know, he's not a bad person but he's in your way. 462 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,440 An idler is a lazy bollocks. 463 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,280 Your boss is probably a contrary little bollocks. 464 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,840 If somebody asked you to do something unreasonable, 465 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,360 you'll go, 'Ask me bollocks.' 466 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:14,440 (laughter) 467 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,560 What happened, what was the story behind that clip? 468 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,840 Here's the story behind that clip. Come on Shane. 469 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,880 I busted my bollocks to get here... (laughter) 470 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,920 And to see that clip, ya can shove it up your fuckin' hole. 471 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,320 (laughter) 472 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,280 # music # 473 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,440 Dry shite. There's a unique Irish swear word. 474 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,680 It sounds very mild and innocent on the surface. 475 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,840 'Cause actually the worse thing you can be called in Ireland, 476 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,520 a dry shite. 477 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,440 Not only are you dry and boring, no craic. 478 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,040 When you're called out as a dry shite, usually by a very good friend, 479 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,120 who's only got your best interest at heart, 480 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,080 you have to take a good look at yourself. 481 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,400 The very least, you might have to change you plans for the evening. 482 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,440 Because, not only are you a bit boring, 483 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,480 and your letting yourself down, 484 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,160 given the emphasis on the craic in this country, 485 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,920 you're sort of letting the country down as well. 486 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,560 # music # 487 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,560 At the paper of record, I met a man who write eloquently, 488 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,360 about our unique Irish way with the bitter word. 489 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,720 I remember be very tickled by something you wrote about, 490 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,200 like the hierarchy of terms of abuse. 491 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,280 We have advancing layers of dishonour. 492 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,080 The general entry level is to be an eejit of some kind. 493 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,400 'Cause there's something about eejit. 494 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,600 it's a common term of abuse, 495 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,160 but it's almost sympathetic. 496 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,240 You know, you start of, 'Ah he's a harmless eejit. 497 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,480 He can't help himself.' 498 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,240 'He's a big eejit.' You know, 499 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,640 he's getting on the way towards earning culpability 500 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,520 but he's not quite there yet. 501 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:50,840 'He's the two ends of an eejit.' 502 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,800 That's borderline. 503 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,560 The next level would be to be a fecker of some kind, you know, 504 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,400 'That auld fecker.' That implies a certain malicious intent. 505 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,040 And then beyond that, you might go onto something like gobshite, 506 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,800 which means all sorts of things, 507 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,560 but it does definitely mean you're definitely contributing to the situation. 508 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,840 It's not something that you're born into. 509 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,120 It's still semi affectionate though. Yeah, you could. 510 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,560 You don't hate a gobshite. You could be an innocent gobshite. 511 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,840 And at number 15 for the 16th week in a row, it's Father Jack Hackett. 512 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,960 With I'm A Sleepy Priest. 513 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,960 How did that gobshite get on the television? 514 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,880 And fecker as well. I love feck and fecker. 515 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,400 Because there really is no edge to that. 516 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,680 It's funny how we successfully, largely through Father Ted, 517 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,840 we have smuggled that into polite, or at least semi... 518 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,720 no, it's almost polite English usage now. 519 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,080 You still can't say in most parts of polite British society, 520 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,160 you can't say fuck. 521 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,840 But you can say feck now, it's a joke. It's licensed by a priest. 522 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,360 It's funny, isn't it? Like, and you can use it in every circumstance. 523 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,240 So it's a real catch-all mild swear word. 524 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:06,600 Fecker is definitely, 525 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,680 for whatever reason, it's definitely divorced from the sexual act, 526 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,240 which was the basis for the other word. 527 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,200 # music # 528 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,320 Now, the Irish times, like every other news organ in the country, 529 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,200 would have censored bad language, you know. 530 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,840 You never read a bad word in a newspaper. 531 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,320 As far as I know, 532 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,440 the word pregnant was never used in a newspaper until 1960, 533 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,600 believe it or not, in this country. 534 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,320 I think it formally is, it's not a house rule as such, 535 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,200 but from observation I've noticed, 536 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,600 we seem to have a maximum 3 asterix rule in words. 537 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,280 It has the em... appearance of propriety and decorum, 538 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,400 but we're leaving readers in no doubt as to what the words are. 539 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,840 It's totally redundant. 540 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,560 We're just leaving it up to their dirty minds. 541 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,600 There may be a few innocent or very well brought up Irish Times readers 542 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,400 who still look at the effing c and think, 543 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,680 'Why was that person describing somebody as a fucking Celt?' 544 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,280 I dunno! 545 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,120 Well, you can see the level expectancy... ..the fuckin' ball. 546 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:11,840 Eamon. You can see the level of expectancy. 547 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,440 Oh yeah. (laughs) 548 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,360 When Neymar was shaping up to take that penalty, 549 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,960 I thought he was fucking... (gasps) ..dreading. 550 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,840 Sorry, we're not on air? We're on air. 551 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,360 Oh... we're not, are we? We are. 552 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,480 Everyone doubted us from the start of the year. 553 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,160 We proved our doubters wrong tonight. 554 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:30,560 We're champions of fuckin' Ireland! 555 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,840 (cheering) 556 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,800 # music # 557 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,440 I still haven't quite decided if it's a matter of national pride, or shame. 558 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,360 But there's no doubt that our love of swearing is never more evident 559 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,400 than when we're supposed to be out there enjoying ourselves. 560 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,000 Ah for fuck's sake, ref! Get a grip. 561 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,840 And the referee this afternoon has come all the way down from Monaghan. 562 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,680 Pat McEnaney. (whistle) 563 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,560 Pat, you would have refereed at every age group 564 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,600 and in every kind of competition, right up to All Ireland level. 565 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,680 You must have heard it all. 566 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,840 Yeah. The language varied. 567 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,560 The language varied, and eh... I can tell ya, 568 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,160 it wasn't all complimentary. 569 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,160 Come on lads, come on. Ah fuck ya Pat. 570 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,360 It's kind of ritualistic, isn't it? Like you are a pantomime villain. 571 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:19,760 Absolutely. Out there, aren't ya? 572 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,000 Like, the referee is the lightning rod for all sorts of frustration. 573 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,240 I used to reckon people used to come to football matches 574 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:27,760 sometimes to get their frustration out. 575 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,280 And they seen this lad in a black suit, and it was a target. 576 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,000 But you're right, it was part of the language like. 577 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,000 You know, 'What the fuck are ya at, ref?' 578 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,360 That was a normal enough statement like. 579 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,880 And it was kind of accepted, you know, the word 'Fuck'. 580 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:48,640 (shouting, cursing in background) 581 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,760 We'll have to fuckin' keep a tight reign here. 582 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,960 You know, what's acceptable? I always say as a referee, you know, 583 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,080 a fella come running up, and he's frustrated. 584 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,320 Maybe he's after you know, missing mistimed tackle. 585 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,840 And he might go, 'What the fuck are you at, Pat like? 586 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,040 What's going on here?' 587 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,680 That's acceptable conversation on a football field. 588 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,640 Come on man, get up. Get up, get up. 589 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:09,720 Come on. 590 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,400 But when someone goes, 'Fuck you, McEnaney.' 591 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,600 That's a straight red card, Right. 592 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:15,840 Where it's personal. 593 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,360 But as a referee, you need to understand that line. 594 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,000 Yeah, you know what I mean, you need to know when a player is frustrated, 595 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,040 when he's not actually directing that verbal at ya. 596 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,080 It was when you went beyond that, like the word bastard, 597 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,360 like when you use that word on a football field, 598 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,040 that's not acceptable. 599 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,480 Let's say there's a bit of smozz and I blow the whistle, 600 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:38,960 and I'm standing here, right? 601 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,080 And you're closer, 602 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,280 fuckin' in like a shot. 603 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,480 Do you know, when you're the man that's dictating the level of tolerance of language, 604 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,960 of the game. Probably with me, 605 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,160 I was more concise about the language then you use like. 606 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,200 Sean Casey going in there. Oh, they're all at it in there now. 607 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,440 This is absolutely disgraceful. 608 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,680 The minute you use the word fuck as a referee 609 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,720 on a football pitch to dictate to a player, 610 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,440 you've lost it. Yeah, yeah. 611 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,800 You've lost it. 612 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,040 But you're always fighting that battle, and you're always, you know, 613 00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:12,120 the language barrier, the discipline, the respect, 614 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,360 you always have to keep putting it out there. Yeah, yeah. 615 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:16,880 Otherwise it gets lost. 616 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,000 (whistle) 617 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,320 (cheers) And the referee whistles, 618 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:22,880 and it's all over. 619 00:34:29,409 --> 00:34:31,369 Fuck. 620 00:34:33,369 --> 00:34:37,129 Lalochezia keys is the technical term for the use of expletives 621 00:34:37,129 --> 00:34:39,009 to relieve stress or pain. 622 00:34:39,009 --> 00:34:40,529 So when you hit your thumb with a hammer, 623 00:34:40,529 --> 00:34:43,529 or dive into the Irish Sea on Christmas Day, 624 00:34:43,529 --> 00:34:45,889 swearing is nature's painkiller. 625 00:34:48,049 --> 00:34:51,369 What is happening to us physiologically and neurologically 626 00:34:51,369 --> 00:34:54,729 and psychologically I guess, when we swear? 627 00:34:55,289 --> 00:34:57,649 There's some really nice research that shows that when we hear 628 00:34:57,649 --> 00:35:00,849 swearing or when we use it, our heart rates go up. 629 00:35:00,849 --> 00:35:03,969 Something called the Galvanic Skin response, that feeling of slightly 630 00:35:03,969 --> 00:35:06,929 sweaty palms, goes up whenever we hear something 631 00:35:06,929 --> 00:35:08,849 as emotive as swearing. 632 00:35:09,169 --> 00:35:12,729 For most of us, the left hemisphere of the brain does 633 00:35:12,729 --> 00:35:14,649 most of our speaking for us. 634 00:35:14,849 --> 00:35:19,489 But you can lose the entire left hemisphere of your brain and survive 635 00:35:19,489 --> 00:35:23,369 and you'll lose pretty much all your language apart from your swearing. 636 00:35:23,369 --> 00:35:28,409 Tell me, do men swear more than women? Is that a thing? 637 00:35:28,809 --> 00:35:32,689 No. Part of this is to do with the fact that women tend to be more 638 00:35:32,689 --> 00:35:34,809 reserved in their swearing around men. 639 00:35:34,809 --> 00:35:37,009 You may not believe this but it's true. 640 00:35:37,009 --> 00:35:40,209 The early studies that looked at whether or not women were 641 00:35:40,209 --> 00:35:43,649 using profanity, it was largely male researchers asking young women 642 00:35:43,649 --> 00:35:46,289 if they knew what these naughty words meant. 643 00:35:46,289 --> 00:35:50,329 Of course these young women went 'no, never heard of them'. 644 00:35:50,329 --> 00:35:53,969 Whereas when women started doing the research, there was a degree more honesty. 645 00:35:53,969 --> 00:35:58,409 But do women swear in a different way when they're amongst themselves? 646 00:35:58,409 --> 00:36:01,769 Yeah. What tends to happen is that swearing evolves over generations 647 00:36:01,769 --> 00:36:05,609 anyway, as things become more or less taboo in society. 648 00:36:05,809 --> 00:36:10,209 But men's swearing tends to follow a pattern such that as soon as women 649 00:36:10,209 --> 00:36:13,969 start using a word, it tends to start to fall out of men's vocabulary. 650 00:36:13,969 --> 00:36:17,689 It's almost as if it's seen as softer because women have started using it. 651 00:36:17,689 --> 00:36:20,809 So the more swear word women claim, the more new stronger words 652 00:36:20,809 --> 00:36:22,849 men tend to go for. 653 00:36:22,849 --> 00:36:26,369 So for example, now women have started saying 'fuck' a lot, 654 00:36:26,369 --> 00:36:30,129 male swearing has moved slightly more into using the word 'cunt'. 655 00:36:30,129 --> 00:36:32,489 I remember for me growing up in the 90's, 656 00:36:32,489 --> 00:36:37,569 the idea of calling my male friends cunts or twats, was second nature to me. 657 00:36:37,969 --> 00:36:40,689 We at least need to arrange a time where.. You can email me. 658 00:36:40,689 --> 00:36:43,729 Okay. So when... Just email me. 659 00:36:44,529 --> 00:36:45,609 Okay. 660 00:36:45,609 --> 00:36:50,089 Is your email address still impatient-shithead-at-meme-dot-jerk! 661 00:36:50,089 --> 00:36:52,089 Yeah. Yeah it is. 662 00:36:53,089 --> 00:36:56,609 Is your still fat-idiot-at-badbreath-dot-cunt? 663 00:36:57,049 --> 00:36:59,729 There is a weird generational shift in that as well. 664 00:36:59,729 --> 00:37:03,449 If I say that around younger women, largely because of the amount of 665 00:37:03,449 --> 00:37:06,809 gender based abuse a lot of them have faced on the internet, 666 00:37:06,809 --> 00:37:10,969 those words now have a much stronger impact than they used to. 667 00:37:10,969 --> 00:37:15,049 So that's the only set of swearing I think that was embraced by women 668 00:37:15,049 --> 00:37:18,849 but has then gone back to being predominantly used by men. 669 00:37:18,849 --> 00:37:23,129 We have internalised this idea that as much as women do swear, 670 00:37:23,129 --> 00:37:25,849 it's somehow slightly less acceptable. 671 00:37:25,849 --> 00:37:28,289 To which I can only say fuck that! 672 00:37:28,449 --> 00:37:30,409 (Ardal laughs) 673 00:37:31,129 --> 00:37:32,329 Hear hear. 674 00:37:32,329 --> 00:37:34,249 Watch your language. 675 00:37:34,249 --> 00:37:35,249 What did I say? 676 00:37:35,249 --> 00:37:36,929 You said prick. 677 00:37:36,929 --> 00:37:38,009 But that's not a bad word. 678 00:37:38,009 --> 00:37:39,329 Yes it is. 679 00:37:39,329 --> 00:37:41,289 Is prick a bad word? (I dunno) 680 00:37:41,609 --> 00:37:43,689 Yes it is, and stop saying it. 681 00:37:43,689 --> 00:37:46,209 Shit and fuck are bad words but it's just a bit of fun. 682 00:37:46,209 --> 00:37:47,649 Prick is just as bad as shit and fuck. 683 00:37:47,649 --> 00:37:51,249 You're not allowed say any of them. What about cunt? 684 00:37:53,329 --> 00:37:54,649 What? 685 00:37:54,649 --> 00:37:57,169 I'm reluctant to use certain words. 686 00:37:58,209 --> 00:38:00,529 Like the C word for example. I... 687 00:38:00,529 --> 00:38:02,449 I wouldn't say that on stage. 688 00:38:02,769 --> 00:38:07,489 I probably wouldn't say it even in a TV programme about bad language. 689 00:38:08,169 --> 00:38:10,089 I wouldn't say it in public, 690 00:38:10,649 --> 00:38:12,969 unless I was with very close friends who I could trust. 691 00:38:12,969 --> 00:38:15,129 I wouldn't say it at home. Certainly not in front of my daughters. 692 00:38:15,129 --> 00:38:16,769 They hate that word. 693 00:38:16,769 --> 00:38:19,809 I think what attracts people to the word is the phonetics. 694 00:38:19,809 --> 00:38:21,529 It's the harsh sound. 695 00:38:21,529 --> 00:38:23,449 It sounds vicious. 696 00:38:23,649 --> 00:38:27,369 A good linguist will tell you, in purely technical terms, why it is so effective. 697 00:38:27,369 --> 00:38:31,249 What you have is the voiceless velar plosive followed by 698 00:38:31,449 --> 00:38:35,409 shortback vowel, and then you end up with the alveolar plosive. 699 00:38:35,409 --> 00:38:37,049 I mean we all know that. 700 00:38:37,049 --> 00:38:40,649 To me, it was like this is a word that you use for mischievous men 701 00:38:40,649 --> 00:38:41,889 more than anything else. 702 00:38:41,889 --> 00:38:43,249 Ah he's some... You know. 703 00:38:43,249 --> 00:38:47,129 It never really occurred to me that this is a very offensive word. 704 00:38:47,129 --> 00:38:49,689 As a good feminist, you should never use this word. 705 00:38:49,689 --> 00:38:52,929 But I suppose of all of the swear words, that would be the one 706 00:38:52,929 --> 00:38:55,009 I'd be most conscious about using. 707 00:38:55,009 --> 00:38:57,969 You'd kind of look around first to make sure, am I gonna... 708 00:38:57,969 --> 00:38:59,849 I don't want to get a lecture on this. 709 00:38:59,849 --> 00:39:02,609 I understand why people are made uncomfortable by it. 710 00:39:02,609 --> 00:39:04,529 It'd be definitely a word I'd be very careful with. 711 00:39:04,529 --> 00:39:08,289 Not because I'm a man and because it's a word that's contested nowadays. 712 00:39:08,289 --> 00:39:12,129 It's just a word that you reserve for special people and 713 00:39:12,129 --> 00:39:14,049 special circumstances. 714 00:39:14,449 --> 00:39:16,209 It's when fucker won't do or when bollocks won't do 715 00:39:16,209 --> 00:39:18,009 or bastard won't do. 716 00:39:18,009 --> 00:39:19,969 There's one more word left. 717 00:39:20,369 --> 00:39:24,409 That's true to a degree but I think there's nothing in Ireland quite as hurtful. 718 00:39:24,409 --> 00:39:28,809 I would be called that any day of the week before being called a clone. (laughs) 719 00:39:28,809 --> 00:39:31,049 Or a spanner or something like... 720 00:39:31,049 --> 00:39:33,529 There's something so mean about it. 721 00:39:34,209 --> 00:39:37,729 Like you're not even worth swearing at, you tulip. 722 00:39:39,849 --> 00:39:44,409 The 19th Century writer, William Carlton, celebrated our cursing habit. 723 00:39:44,409 --> 00:39:48,009 He said "Every oath is epic. Full of humour, pathos 724 00:39:48,009 --> 00:39:50,649 and the highest order of invention and talent". 725 00:39:50,649 --> 00:39:54,049 Perhaps one reason why we're so adept at swearing in English, 726 00:39:54,049 --> 00:39:58,209 is because we were so fucking good at it in our native tongue. 727 00:40:00,249 --> 00:40:03,049 Do you know any...? Tell us a few curses in Irish. 728 00:40:03,049 --> 00:40:04,689 Will I? Yes. 729 00:40:04,689 --> 00:40:06,929 Go on, tell us a few curses in Irish. I wonder.. 730 00:40:06,929 --> 00:40:08,289 Go on, do it. Alright. 731 00:40:08,289 --> 00:40:10,209 A bhastard. 732 00:40:10,369 --> 00:40:12,289 Say it after me. 733 00:40:12,769 --> 00:40:13,689 A bhastard! 734 00:40:13,689 --> 00:40:15,609 Yes. (audience laughs) 735 00:40:16,009 --> 00:40:17,409 That's what she said! 736 00:40:17,409 --> 00:40:20,809 There's a difference between the conventional effing and blinding 737 00:40:20,809 --> 00:40:24,009 that we do today, and heaping curses on people. 738 00:40:24,369 --> 00:40:26,249 Wishing them misfortune. 739 00:40:26,249 --> 00:40:29,889 What ties them together I suppose, is they're both trying to cause dishonour. 740 00:40:29,889 --> 00:40:32,809 How do you really want to ruin someone's honour? 741 00:40:32,809 --> 00:40:36,689 You wanna bring the darkness down on them. 742 00:40:36,689 --> 00:40:40,409 You wanna say go deibh an diabhail go dti do haimn. 743 00:40:40,529 --> 00:40:42,729 May the devil get into your soul. 744 00:40:42,969 --> 00:40:46,649 Or bascadh na muice ar fhail na mbruch thugat. 745 00:40:46,809 --> 00:40:51,089 So bascadh, the bashing of the muice, of the goats... 746 00:40:51,609 --> 00:40:55,129 ar fhial na mbruch. At the bottom of the cliff of the badgers. 747 00:40:55,129 --> 00:40:57,569 So basically when the goats had chased the badgers over the cliff, 748 00:40:57,569 --> 00:40:59,169 and ended up dead on the bottom. 749 00:40:59,169 --> 00:41:01,089 May that happen to you. 750 00:41:01,369 --> 00:41:03,689 Ta an tonn teasca chughat. 751 00:41:03,929 --> 00:41:08,249 A continual wave of vomiting onto you, out of your mouth. Wow. 752 00:41:08,249 --> 00:41:10,969 You're not coming back from any of those. No. 753 00:41:10,969 --> 00:41:13,849 So we didn't have words in the Irish language then, 754 00:41:13,849 --> 00:41:17,489 like crude taboo words for like bodily functions and 755 00:41:18,089 --> 00:41:20,689 intimate body parts? They weren't taboo words? 756 00:41:20,689 --> 00:41:23,129 There's a few like chluaibh ar do... 757 00:41:24,489 --> 00:41:28,169 which is basically may you animal hide on your anus. 758 00:41:28,169 --> 00:41:30,249 Our just fur on you bum. Fair enough. 759 00:41:30,249 --> 00:41:32,089 But that's as far as it's going to get. 760 00:41:32,089 --> 00:41:35,449 The thing is though, that Irish people are just far more emotional. 761 00:41:35,449 --> 00:41:38,129 We include emotion in our culture. It's there every moment. 762 00:41:38,129 --> 00:41:40,049 People wake up going OH GOD! 763 00:41:40,649 --> 00:41:42,569 What time is it? It's 6 minutes to 9. 764 00:41:42,569 --> 00:41:46,449 Is it? I thought it was only 7 minutes to. We're all fucked. 765 00:41:47,089 --> 00:41:50,409 I don't want to get into this thing about Irish exceptionalism or anything 766 00:41:50,409 --> 00:41:54,609 but like... I do really! 767 00:41:55,769 --> 00:42:00,129 In the way we identify as sort of being drinking and great craic. 768 00:42:00,129 --> 00:42:02,809 Like swearing is part of that way we self-identify. 769 00:42:02,809 --> 00:42:05,449 Yeah, like as you said, I too like to avoid exceptionalism 770 00:42:05,449 --> 00:42:07,609 but you can say it with the... 771 00:42:07,609 --> 00:42:10,449 The English that the Irish speakers speak, of all the English 772 00:42:10,449 --> 00:42:13,489 speakers around the world, has more cursing in it. 773 00:42:13,489 --> 00:42:16,289 We think of Brendan Behan. We think of Bob Geldof. 774 00:42:16,289 --> 00:42:19,489 We just think of cursing so as you say, there is definitely something there. 775 00:42:19,489 --> 00:42:21,089 There's also this poetic sensibility. 776 00:42:21,089 --> 00:42:24,449 We love created... It wasn't just a curse that insulted you. 777 00:42:24,449 --> 00:42:27,649 It was a curse that was as elegant and as compact as possible 778 00:42:27,649 --> 00:42:30,729 and that put the knife in, turned it, got out again. 779 00:42:30,729 --> 00:42:34,169 I respected your sincerity. I'd ask you respect mine. 780 00:42:34,169 --> 00:42:36,169 > You don't seem very sincere. 781 00:42:36,969 --> 00:42:39,489 Well all due respect, in the most unparliamentary language, 782 00:42:39,489 --> 00:42:42,209 f**k you Deputy Stagg F**k you. 783 00:42:42,929 --> 00:42:46,449 I apologise now for my use of unparliamentary language. 784 00:42:46,449 --> 00:42:50,569 I think I'll have another glass of Fanta 'cause I love Fanta so much. 785 00:42:50,569 --> 00:42:53,209 (fizzes and spills) Oh fuck. 786 00:42:54,009 --> 00:42:57,049 Swearing on television can still be a surprise on occasions, 787 00:42:57,049 --> 00:42:59,089 but is rarely shocking. 788 00:42:59,089 --> 00:43:02,129 The very first person to cause such a stir on Irish tv was 789 00:43:02,129 --> 00:43:05,089 Christy Brown on The Late Late Show in 1970, 790 00:43:05,089 --> 00:43:08,129 when he said "Fuck 'em and double fuck 'em". 791 00:43:08,489 --> 00:43:11,289 But perhaps the poet laureate of Irish swearing is an 792 00:43:11,289 --> 00:43:13,969 honorary knight of the British realm. 793 00:43:13,969 --> 00:43:16,329 A lot of detractors saying look at all those people in that room. 794 00:43:16,329 --> 00:43:17,769 A lot of wealthy people. 795 00:43:17,769 --> 00:43:20,329 If they all paid their taxes in the right way, we wouldn't 796 00:43:20,329 --> 00:43:23,009 need these kind of fundraising singles. What do you say to them? 797 00:43:23,009 --> 00:43:25,329 I think they're talking bollocks. 798 00:43:27,209 --> 00:43:30,769 Pretty colourful language. If you could not use any more we'd appreciate it. 799 00:43:30,769 --> 00:43:33,729 You're a prominent Irish person in Britain, who swears a lot, 800 00:43:33,729 --> 00:43:35,729 or at least you have the reputation for swearing a lot. 801 00:43:35,729 --> 00:43:38,209 Do you think Irish people get away with it more then 802 00:43:38,209 --> 00:43:40,129 in somewhere like England? 803 00:43:40,289 --> 00:43:44,329 I think the English has appropriated a lot of the Irishisms. 804 00:43:44,329 --> 00:43:48,609 Like shite etc., is relatively normal now. 805 00:43:50,089 --> 00:43:56,529 A lot of it is to do with the fact that there's this misconception 806 00:43:56,529 --> 00:44:03,769 that if you swear, you're thick or you don't have the vocabulary 807 00:44:03,769 --> 00:44:07,129 to be able to express yourself properly. 808 00:44:07,129 --> 00:44:11,009 In fact the opposite is true, as countless studies have said. 809 00:44:11,009 --> 00:44:14,289 You're more likely to swear if you've got a large vocabulary 810 00:44:14,289 --> 00:44:18,689 and I think that goes to why perhaps, the Irish swear more. 811 00:44:19,169 --> 00:44:23,609 So it kind of raises the question, what are we missing in Ireland 812 00:44:23,609 --> 00:44:27,729 that we swear so much? 813 00:44:27,729 --> 00:44:31,249 Everyone has their frustrations but are we more frustrated? 814 00:44:31,249 --> 00:44:34,249 Are we more emotionally repressed than other people? 815 00:44:34,249 --> 00:44:38,409 It's all of that but it's the fact of the... 816 00:44:38,409 --> 00:44:40,729 the sound of language. 817 00:44:40,969 --> 00:44:45,889 Words have got a tangible, physical quality to them. 818 00:44:46,529 --> 00:44:48,489 That's genuinely true. 819 00:44:49,569 --> 00:44:51,489 There's the weighted word. 820 00:44:52,769 --> 00:44:58,249 And the context of the flow of a sentence in Ireland, 821 00:44:58,249 --> 00:45:02,209 has got a rhythmic and melodic quality to it. 822 00:45:02,969 --> 00:45:07,049 Unsurprising that you use then, swear words, 823 00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:11,809 because they do come from a place where music comes from in the brain. 824 00:45:11,809 --> 00:45:15,649 And that's a really odd fact and it's extraordinary. 825 00:45:15,649 --> 00:45:20,769 So perhaps there's a mellifluous quality that you insert the word where it's apt. 826 00:45:20,769 --> 00:45:25,529 And what was your excuse for swearing live on British television in 1985 827 00:45:25,529 --> 00:45:28,489 and shocking, shocking the nation? 828 00:45:28,489 --> 00:45:33,249 What happened was I was up in the box with Charles and Diana, 829 00:45:34,209 --> 00:45:36,249 so I'd done that thing. 830 00:45:36,249 --> 00:45:39,289 Quo came on. It kicked off. Okay, it was all going. 831 00:45:39,289 --> 00:45:43,409 And now the next part once the gig was actually on, 832 00:45:43,409 --> 00:45:50,369 was trying to get as much money and remind people what all these 833 00:45:50,369 --> 00:45:54,889 giants of the culture were doing it for free. 834 00:45:55,329 --> 00:45:57,449 And that wasn't happening. 835 00:45:57,449 --> 00:46:01,689 I went to the broadcast booth and this DJ, 836 00:46:01,689 --> 00:46:04,969 'Hey everybody'.. charity and all this stuff, 837 00:46:04,969 --> 00:46:11,289 was crapping on about envelopes and posting it. 838 00:46:12,089 --> 00:46:14,169 And I said fuck the envelopes. 839 00:46:14,289 --> 00:46:16,929 Call up now and do it. 840 00:46:16,929 --> 00:46:19,609 You've gotta get on the phone and take the money out of your pocket. 841 00:46:19,609 --> 00:46:21,569 Don't go to the pub tonight, please. 842 00:46:21,569 --> 00:46:25,409 Stay in and give us the money. There are people dying NOW! 843 00:46:25,409 --> 00:46:28,129 So gimme the money. Here's the numbers. 844 00:46:28,369 --> 00:46:31,609 We're gonna get the address first.. No. No, fuck the address. 845 00:46:31,609 --> 00:46:33,609 Let's get the numbers. 846 00:46:33,609 --> 00:46:35,369 'Cause that's how we're gonna get it. 847 00:46:35,369 --> 00:46:41,649 The swear word had the effect of slapping someone across the face 848 00:46:41,649 --> 00:46:43,969 and saying wake up. 849 00:46:44,409 --> 00:46:46,369 You've got to join in. 850 00:46:46,849 --> 00:46:51,329 I think that... suddenly went, fuck yeah. 851 00:46:51,649 --> 00:46:55,609 And that's the point where literally the... 852 00:46:55,609 --> 00:46:58,489 ...quite literally phone lines collapsed. 853 00:46:59,369 --> 00:47:02,809 So that should answer anyone who thinks there's no place for swearing. 854 00:47:02,809 --> 00:47:06,169 Obviously... It depends on the context, Ardal. 855 00:47:08,529 --> 00:47:12,569 Ultimately there are very few taboos left in our everyday language. 856 00:47:12,569 --> 00:47:15,049 But it's important that there are some. 857 00:47:15,049 --> 00:47:16,809 That there is a line. 858 00:47:16,809 --> 00:47:20,049 Cursing and swearing is all very well when it binds us together, 859 00:47:20,049 --> 00:47:22,689 but not so great when it's divisive. 860 00:47:22,689 --> 00:47:24,929 Swearing is about the forbidden. 861 00:47:25,889 --> 00:47:27,849 They're words of power. 862 00:47:28,009 --> 00:47:31,569 The power comes from that which is taboo. 863 00:47:31,569 --> 00:47:34,249 Sweet mother of holy divine fuck. 864 00:47:34,409 --> 00:47:36,969 Things like that.. 865 00:47:37,289 --> 00:47:39,809 What does that even mean? It doesn't matter but... 866 00:47:39,809 --> 00:47:41,449 It doesn't need to mean anything. 867 00:47:41,449 --> 00:47:45,329 There are words that were in nursery rhymes or the titles 868 00:47:45,529 --> 00:47:49,569 of Agatha Christie novels that now I can't even bring myself 869 00:47:49,569 --> 00:47:55,049 to utter, because I'm much more aware of the freight of pain 870 00:47:55,049 --> 00:47:57,009 that some words bear. 871 00:47:57,409 --> 00:48:00,169 It's very hard to use those in a positive and inclusive way. 872 00:48:00,169 --> 00:48:04,729 They are usually used as ways of demeaning people. 873 00:48:05,289 --> 00:48:09,529 So I really hope that we can hold onto particularly things like 874 00:48:09,529 --> 00:48:12,089 fuck and shit, 'cause either way, 875 00:48:12,089 --> 00:48:15,329 we're all basically the result of a fuck or something like it 876 00:48:15,329 --> 00:48:17,289 and everybody shits. 877 00:48:17,489 --> 00:48:22,049 There are journalists, politicians, there are pop stars, 878 00:48:22,049 --> 00:48:25,809 apologising because of this fear of saying the wrong thing. 879 00:48:25,809 --> 00:48:27,769 This fear of... 880 00:48:28,329 --> 00:48:30,529 ...of the pack turning on you. 881 00:48:32,129 --> 00:48:35,729 And one of the words that's left is fuck. 882 00:48:37,569 --> 00:48:38,969 We can still say fuck. 883 00:48:38,969 --> 00:48:41,849 Thank fuck we can still say fuck. 884 00:48:46,409 --> 00:48:49,769 We swear for the same reasons that everyone else does. 885 00:48:49,769 --> 00:48:52,329 To let off steam, to convey strong emotions, 886 00:48:52,329 --> 00:48:55,489 to add emphasis and colour to our conversation. 887 00:48:55,489 --> 00:48:58,409 To shock, to wound, to amuse. 888 00:48:59,609 --> 00:49:02,089 But I think there's more to it. I think part if it is that we're 889 00:49:02,089 --> 00:49:04,969 just a little bit histrionic by nature. 890 00:49:04,969 --> 00:49:08,529 We exaggerate a lot. We magnify our grievances. 891 00:49:09,529 --> 00:49:11,769 We're well versed in the art of begrudgery. 892 00:49:11,769 --> 00:49:14,009 We're just very argumentative. 893 00:49:15,249 --> 00:49:17,209 We've a lot to say. 894 00:49:17,969 --> 00:49:21,289 In fact, I'm surprised we don't swear a lot more. 895 00:49:22,169 --> 00:49:24,969 It's been really interesting and I think you've covered 896 00:49:24,969 --> 00:49:28,489 pretty much everything there so it's fantastic. Thank you. 897 00:49:28,489 --> 00:49:30,489 Well go and fuck yourself, Ardal! 898 00:49:30,489 --> 00:49:32,409 I will.