1 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:08,760 I'm on a journey around an exotic 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,080 and beautiful land at the edge of Europe. 3 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,680 I'm in Ireland. 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,400 It's a place that's so near and yet can seem so far away 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,240 and I've never really explored it. 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,920 I'm going to travel all the way around Ireland by land, 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,760 by sea and by air. 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,600 This is incredible! 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,080 I want to find out more about this island divided between two 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,720 countries with an often troubled history. 11 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:50,240 I'll be meeting the enterprising... 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,400 Yes, here's success - success, excellent! 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,080 ..and the mildly eccentric... 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,800 I just keep getting offered more monkeys, you know. 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,720 You would take more if you could? Yeah, absolutely. 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,600 This is a land steeped in religious faith. 17 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,720 What are you doing? Why barefoot? 18 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,560 Well, they say it's the proper way to do it. 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,760 And in ancient myths and legends... 20 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:20,240 I meet people regularly who have met the fairies and you don't interfere with them. 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,280 Don't mess with the fairies. Exactly. 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,120 But in the 21st century, 23 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,200 many here are embracing extraordinary changes. 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,160 Who would have thought that homosexuality would unify Ireland? 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,080 I mean, that's pretty amazing. 26 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,760 On this last leg of my journey, I'm going to be travelling 27 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,600 down the east coast to the great cities of Belfast and Dublin. 28 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:45,680 Look at this! 29 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,080 And on to the south of Ireland, where my travels began. 30 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,880 I'm in Northern Ireland. I'm starting the second leg 31 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,080 of my journey around the island of Ireland 32 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,920 and I'm here at the Giant's Causeway - one of the wonders of the world! 33 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,040 The columns here are the result of an ancient volcanic 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,960 eruption, of course. 35 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,400 But the myths and the legends that surround this place 36 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:30,720 are much more interesting. 37 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:37,640 The main legend is that giants used this as a road, as a causeway, 38 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:42,320 between Ireland and Scotland - which isn't many miles in that direction. 39 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,240 And it's quite a convenient myth in many ways for many Protestants, 40 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,240 particularly here in the north of Ireland, because it 41 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,720 reinforces their connection with Scotland and with Britain. 42 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,240 The links between Ireland and Scotland have been strong 43 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:58,960 since the Stone Age. 44 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,240 At their narrowest point, there's only 13 miles of water. 45 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,320 Many Protestants in Northern Ireland are descended from Scots who 46 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,320 arrived in the 1600s during the organised colonisation 47 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,360 known as the Plantation of Ulster. 48 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,600 The plantation was devised partly as a way of taking 49 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,560 control of an unruly region of Catholic Ireland by flooding it 50 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,400 with tens of thousands of Scottish and English settlers. 51 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,600 Of course, that ultimately led to deep divisions and violent conflict. 52 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,680 For decades, much of Northern Ireland was torn apart by the sectarian 53 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,400 conflict known as the Troubles. 54 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,800 Protestants were mainly Loyalists and Unionists who wanted to 55 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,080 stay part of the United Kingdom, whereas Catholics were generally 56 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,200 republicans and nationalists who either wanted to separate from 57 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:53,240 the UK or unite with the Republic of Ireland to form a United Ireland. 58 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,680 But I'm heading now to a community where Protestants 59 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:02,160 and Catholics live together in relative peace and harmony. 60 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,560 I'm going to find out how they manage that. 61 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,320 Kate? Hello - Simon. 62 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,040 Hello. Lovely to meet you. Lovely to meet you as well. 63 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,240 Permission to come aboard? Absolutely, yeah. 64 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,680 Kate Burns is from one of the many communities in Northern Ireland that 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,320 didn't suffer the pain of intense sectarianism during the Troubles. 66 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,920 She was taking me to Rathlin Island. 67 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:37,880 It's a mixed-faith community in what's called a Special Area of Conservation. 68 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,440 A few decades ago, jobs were scarce here 69 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,920 and the island's population was in decline. 70 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,160 Now there's tourism and fishing 71 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,280 but Kate's also pioneering an unusual new industry. 72 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,880 So tell us a bit about Rathlin Island. 73 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,640 How many people live here? 74 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,440 There's about 123 and it's been growing. 75 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,520 About 123? Yeah, yeah. 76 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,360 And are you...you're a new arrival? 77 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,320 Well, I arrived in 1978. 78 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,680 Oh, that's very recent. You only just got here, then! 79 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,880 What was life like here during the Troubles? 80 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,880 From a community perspective, we just didn't have - there just 81 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,840 wasn't this division that there was on the mainland, even though 82 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:25,920 there were the two communities, Catholic and Protestant communities 83 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:33,280 on the island, and they've always worked together and played together. 84 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:35,920 Catholics and Protestants here went to the same school - 85 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,880 unusual in Northern Ireland, where education's still shockingly segregated. 86 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,960 They've even ended up together. 87 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,760 People on the island were buried together - are buried together? 88 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,240 They are buried together. 89 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,920 And that sounds - as an outsider, well, yes - of course, that's very normal. 90 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,920 But it wasn't and still isn't that normal in Northern Ireland, is it? 91 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,040 Not normal at all, actually. But... So, they're all here. 92 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,400 And what a beautiful place to be buried as well. 93 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:04,720 Yes, absolutely. 94 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,760 Rathlin is stunning, 95 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,280 but to keep this remote community alive in the 21st century, 96 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:17,440 Kate and the other residents have had to be imaginative. 97 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,600 So, Kate, where are we going? 98 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,360 Right - this is quite a good place to get kelp. 99 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,280 Ugh! Wet welly - not good. 100 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,120 This is what we're here for. 101 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,480 Seaweed! 102 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,360 HE LAUGHS 103 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,080 Now, to too many people, this is just something that rots 104 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,200 and smells on the seashore. 105 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,480 But this is a superfood. 106 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,280 Why should people be eating this - 107 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:58,040 something they think of as just a slimy sea-y weed? 108 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,080 Well, it's lovely, it's a superfood and it's good for the ocean, 109 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,160 it's good for you and it's good to eat. 110 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,040 Well, I would pay money for that as a snack, even as it is there. Mmm. 111 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,120 The taste isn't too strong - it's quite subtle. 112 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,160 Subtle ocean flavour. 113 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,360 Subtle ocean flavour, yeah. It has. 114 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,840 Seaweed's incredibly versatile - as a biofuel, in medicine and as a food. 115 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,080 Kelp's been used to make noodles in the East for centuries and it's 116 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,840 becoming fashionable in the West, so Kate's started farming it. 117 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,640 Yes, here's success! Success, excellent. OK! 118 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:39,960 What have you found? 119 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,360 Now this is what I'm after today, this particular kind of kelp, 120 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,360 which has got brown patches on it. 121 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,240 Can you see those patches? Yes, yes. 122 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:49,680 Those are the seeds. 123 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,920 Really? And so what are you going to do with it? 124 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,080 We're going to make baby kelp plants from it. THEY LAUGH 125 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,080 The seeds Kate gathers here are used to plant enormous 126 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,040 quantities of kelp in a farm out at sea. 127 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,040 There's almost no negative impact on the environment from growing 128 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,960 the superfood this way. 129 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,760 Low in calories but rich in vitamins and minerals, 130 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,200 Kate believes it's a foodstuff that could revolutionise 131 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,120 the economy of this remote island, but growing seaweed could 132 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,000 also help to meet the world's increasing food needs. 133 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,040 Kate has licensed 22 acres of sea for her underwater farm 134 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,280 and can now produce between 60 and 80 tonnes of food a year. 135 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,000 Her son Duncan helps run the farm. 136 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,480 The kelp grows on more than a dozen ropes strung out across the sea. 137 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:39,680 Got it! 138 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:43,480 Maybe what they're growing here will be in a supermarket or restaurant near you soon. 139 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,200 Yay! Look at that! 140 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:50,040 Oh, that's fantastic. 141 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,760 Look! Here we go. 142 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,440 So for us making noodles and salads from this, 143 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,160 this is a lovely, fine clean product. 144 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,200 Each one of these buoys has ropes like this 145 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,400 and it goes on for miles. HE LAUGHS 146 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,240 How do you feel when you see this? 147 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,480 Look, it's growing successfully here on your farm. 148 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,240 I just think this is just super. 149 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,280 I just get really excited when I see it. 150 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,680 And this hasn't taken masses of pesticides and fertilizers. 151 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:19,840 It's taken nothing, no. 152 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,040 It's just been put in the sea. 153 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,080 Is this the future of food? 154 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,960 I think what we're doing here is 155 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,040 the start of something which is going to grow in other places. 156 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,000 But, yeah - this is what food should be. 157 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,480 Feeding seven billion people on this planet is a huge challenge for us 158 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,840 and growing food on land is becoming quite difficult - 159 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,240 we're running out of space and people are using enormous 160 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,920 amounts of fertilizers and pesticides and insecticides. 161 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,160 Growing it out here in the sea like this - naturally, organically, 162 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,400 sustainably - it's got to be the future. 163 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:01,280 Back on the mainland, 164 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:06,640 I resumed my journey down the east coast, leaving Rathlin Island behind. 165 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,800 I'm now going to head along the causeway coastal route 166 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,640 towards Belfast. 167 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,920 That coastal route has been rated as one of the top drives in the world. 168 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,040 Look at this place! 169 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,440 This beautiful coast road has always been celebrated by locals. 170 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,480 But since peace has come to Northern Ireland, 171 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,920 the rest of the world has woken up to it, too. 172 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,200 Tourists are coming back and the film and TV industry now uses 173 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,400 studios in the province and landscapes as locations. 174 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,920 There's one hugely popular US TV series in particular that's 175 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,360 making Northern Ireland's scenery internationally famous. 176 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:51,840 It's boosted Northern Ireland's economy by tens of millions of pounds 177 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,720 and created thousands of jobs. 178 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,920 It's beautiful round here. 179 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,200 There's a road up ahead that's particularly picturesque. 180 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,080 This is it. 181 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,680 It's called the Dark Hedges. 182 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:13,080 Oh! 183 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,120 It seems a few other people have heard about it as well. 184 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,080 Game Of Thrones is the international smash-hit TV series. 185 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,160 It's shot in a former shipyard building in Belfast 186 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,800 and at locations like this. 187 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,480 We've got travellers coming from Asia 188 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,280 to look at a road in Northern Ireland that's featured on a TV series. 189 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:35,600 It's a changing world! 190 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,440 Where have you come from? 191 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,280 California. California! 192 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,480 People have really got into the whole world of 193 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,040 Game Of Thrones, haven't they? 194 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,320 Yeah, well, you know... It's a novelty. 195 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,800 We don't have medieval, you know, castles and history and horses... 196 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,080 Water, rain! Water, green! 197 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,720 So what are the sort of key things that you think of 198 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,680 when you thought of Northern Ireland? 199 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:08,120 It's, er, I mean, Game Of Thrones definitely influences a lot of the people I work with. 200 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,440 I work with a lot of nerds. 201 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:10,960 I work at a software company 202 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,760 so we have like, you know, comic-con day and dress-up day 203 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,480 and stuff like that, so we always have characters walking around... From Game Of Thrones! 204 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,640 So you have a dress-up day... 205 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,480 Yes! ..at your California internet technology company? Yes. 206 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,520 This is brilliant! 207 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,360 Many think Game Of Thrones has been the biggest 208 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,600 positive publicity boost the province has had in decades. 209 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,520 I headed to Northern Ireland's capital city, Belfast - 210 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,120 which for many outsiders still has a tricky reputation. 211 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,160 Before I get into Belfast, there's something I wanted you to see. 212 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,560 And that is... 213 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,280 the view of Belfast. Look at this! 214 00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:02,480 How many news reports have I seen from Belfast over the decades... 215 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,640 ..talking of death and suffering 216 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,800 and tragedy and conflict? 217 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,240 Hundreds and hundreds. 218 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:17,920 And yet this is Belfast today. 219 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,960 Looks shiny, looks peaceful. 220 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,680 Let's go and see what it's like on the ground. 221 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,160 Hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent on the redevelopment 222 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,360 of Belfast since the Good Friday Peace Agreement. 223 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,600 The checkpoints have gone. 224 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,080 A whole generation has grown up in relative peace. 225 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,320 There are still political militants and paramilitaries here, of course, 226 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,360 but the majority of people just want to move on from the Troubles 227 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,680 and they're often embarrassed by the antics of the minority. 228 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,760 So this is, I'm pretty sure, the Cathedral Quarter, 229 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:57,200 which is the sort of, you know, trendy bit of Belfast. 230 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,640 which is the sort of, you know, trendy bit of Belfast. 231 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,320 That's where I'm going. 232 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,640 I'm on my way to meet a bloke called Jake O'Kane. 233 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,040 Bet there's nowhere to bloody park, though. 234 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,480 Goodness me! A man with a lemur on his head. 235 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,920 Things have changed so dramatically here, it's got to the point 236 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,560 where people can joke about religion and politics. 237 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,400 I met up with one of Belfast's leading comedians and satirists. 238 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,600 Jake? Simon, welcome, welcome. 239 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,680 Thank you very much indeed. 240 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,920 What have you said in the past, Jake? 241 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,000 I've said a lot in the past. That's what I do. 242 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,200 I say things that people think but don't say. That's very important. 243 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,440 Are you an equal opportunities satirist? 244 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,720 Oh, I hate everybody. 245 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,280 I have no respect for power, I have no respect for privilege, 246 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:49,920 I have no respect for history. 247 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,200 I have no respect for what's gone before. 248 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:57,920 How would you describe Belfast today? Is this Belfast today? 249 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,480 Yeah. This is Belfast. This is the Belfast I know. 250 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,320 So my generation, when I was a younger man, 251 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,240 we never came into the city centre. 252 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,880 We always socialised in our own little camp. Why? 253 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,040 Because it was dangerous. Because you could get shot. 254 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,600 Very simple, very basic. 255 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,320 And it's become busy and vibrant since. 256 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,200 It's totally opened up. 257 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,920 Since when? 258 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,840 Started after the Good Friday Agreement. Started after peace. 259 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,120 Started after we stopped shooting each other. 260 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,760 Naturally, that's when things began to open up. 261 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,960 Today, kids are coming into Belfast city centre, they're mixing, 262 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,800 no-one gives a damn whether they're Protestant or Catholic. 263 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,560 Is there such a thing here as an embarrassed majority? 264 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,360 Yes. And are you part of it? Yes. 265 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,280 The majority here are not tied or captured by their past. 266 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,400 They have...they are not giving up who they are, 267 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,960 who they believe they are, 268 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,640 but they are willing to reach the hand out and accommodate 269 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,560 and compromise and say, "Let's find a middle ground." 270 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,960 But not everyone in Belfast feels able or ready to reach out a hand. 271 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,440 It's only a short drive from the lively Cathedral Quarter to 272 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,280 less affluent and still divided areas of Belfast. 273 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,160 Now, this - this is a real shocker. 274 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,080 This is one of the euphemistically named peace walls. 275 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,360 A security wall that divides communities - 276 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,640 this is a Loyalist community on this side 277 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,720 and on the other side is a republican community. 278 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,560 And they have to be kept apart. 279 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,560 And you know what's really tragic? 280 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,840 A lot of these walls have actually gone up 281 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,080 since the peace process began. 282 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,640 There's dozens of the barriers and locals still don't want them removed. 283 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,800 It sounds extraordinary but many people killed in the Troubles 284 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,040 died where peace walls had been built, and I for one can understand 285 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,720 why their friends and relatives might not want to take them down. 286 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:17,760 I arrived in Belfast on the most important weekend of the year 287 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,680 for many in the Unionist and Loyalist community. 288 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,280 The main event of the summer marching season 289 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,000 celebrates an historic military 290 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,160 victory in which the Protestant King William of Orange defeated 291 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,840 Catholic King James II in the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. 292 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,480 It secured the Protestant ascendancy in Ireland for generations, 293 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,440 to the detriment of the Catholic majority. 294 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,080 Marching bands like this one practice all year for the main event 295 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,440 on July 12th, in which thousands parade through the streets. 296 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,080 I met up with Michael Crosby, 297 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,320 a long-standing member of the Pride of Ardoyne Flute Band. 298 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,800 Now it's a street party? 299 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,640 Street party, yeah. It's a community festival. 300 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,520 Can you tell us just a little bit about the community? 301 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,160 Give us a sense of the community here, 302 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,600 that's quite a small area, I'm thinking. 303 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,440 This is Glenbryn estate which we refer to as Loyalist Ardoyne. 304 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,680 You have nationalist Ardoyne, so we refer to this as Loyalist Ardoyne. 305 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,320 We have something like seven to eight streets. 306 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,200 It's been through a lot of hard times during the Troubles. 307 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,240 We've lost a lot of people in here, 308 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,480 shot dead, whatever, through the Troubles. 309 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,560 But we're a close-knit community. 310 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,760 Seven or eight roads is a pretty small community, isn't it? 311 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,960 And are you...do you feel hemmed in, surrounded here? 312 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,800 If you look down the street, you have houses that still have 313 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,120 barbed wire in front of the windows. This is 2015. 314 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,320 But, of course, a stone's throw away in nationalist Ardoyne, 315 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,440 Catholics feel just as besieged. 316 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,480 Celebrations for the 12th July kick off with huge bonfires 317 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,920 lit all around the city the night before. 318 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,520 Look at the size of that! 319 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,440 Tradition has it that bonfires were originally lit to guide 320 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,720 the ships of the Protestant King William of Orange. 321 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,920 I felt this was one tradition that had got rather out of hand. 322 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,960 Many Catholics feel it's a triumphalistic celebration 323 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,600 of the victory of Protestants over Catholics. 324 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:36,480 I do struggle, I must say, to understand how burning hundreds 325 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,760 and hundreds of pallets is really an expression of culture. 326 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,800 But it feels intimidatory as well. 327 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,360 What's curious, I suppose, is this sort of thing would never be 328 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:55,080 tolerated in many other British cities. 329 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,480 But here, still allowances are being made, have to be made, 330 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,880 otherwise people would get very angry. 331 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,400 Nationalist and Catholic symbols - like effigies of the Pope - 332 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,240 can be burnt on the pyres. 333 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,320 It can be deeply upsetting to Catholics. 334 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:18,560 It felt strange to be in Belfast on the 12th. It's not a normal weekend. 335 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,600 Many people in the city have no interest in the event 336 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,000 and leave for a holiday. 337 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,120 On the Glenbryn estate, they're about to light their giant bonfire. 338 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,000 I met up again with Michael Crosby from the Pride of Ardoyne Flute Band. 339 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,200 You're loading up there. 340 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,280 Now obviously, we've got an IRA sign here. 341 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,720 That's going to go up. 342 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,800 Above it, you've got the flag of the Republic, the tricolour - 343 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,640 the Republic of Ireland. Why are you burning that? 344 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,880 Because this is British. This is British Northern Ireland. 345 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,520 This is Northern Ireland, part of the British state. 346 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,800 That's a foreign flag. 347 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,640 Now you know some people are going to say that's very provocative. 348 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,840 It's not provocative. It's not. It's not a flag of my country. 349 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,920 The flag of my country is the Union Jack and the Ulster flag. 350 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,360 But putting it up there isn't just another country - that's the enemy, isn't it? 351 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,600 Yeah. And it still feels that way? Yeah. 352 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,560 CHEERING AND SHOUTING 353 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,360 Bloody hell! 354 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,040 The heat is astonishing. 355 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,240 The whole scene is completely surreal for me. 356 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,080 Many people here feel their culture, identity, 357 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,520 and survival is under threat, even though recent polls show that 358 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,200 most Catholics in Northern Ireland also want to stay part of the UK. 359 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,240 What is your ultimate concern? 360 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,120 Shared space and a shared future. 361 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,960 Is your ultimate concern that you're going to be pushed 362 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,040 out of Ireland, basically? 363 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,080 I hope in my generation, 364 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:13,160 when I'm dead and buried, that this country is still British. 365 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,120 And my grandkids can still go to school and express our culture 366 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,480 like I'm doing tonight, having a few beers. 367 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,840 The whole weekend, we enjoy our culture and enjoy our freedom. 368 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,440 What a scene. 369 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,800 It's really sad to hear the fear, 370 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,240 actually, the concern 371 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,920 that people here have about the loss of their culture, 372 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,280 their identity, their territory. 373 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,760 Their sense of Britishness. 374 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,240 As an outsider, obviously, I see it completely differently. 375 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,520 From my perspective, the Loyalists won. 376 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,440 This is still a separate country. 377 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,000 They don't see it that way. 378 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,920 They see their position under threat. 379 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,520 It's easy to judge this community for not moving on, 380 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,520 but many died here during the Troubles 381 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,600 and I could sympathise with their reluctance to abandon traditions. 382 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,640 There's also high unemployment here. 383 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,760 Their British identity gives a sense of pride. 384 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,600 It was the morning of the 12th 385 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,280 and members of the Protestant Orange Order were matching through the centre of Belfast. 386 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,480 I actually feel a little bit defensive about this 387 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,240 because although it is odd, although it is exotic, 388 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:02,920 this is a largely working-class celebration of their fundamental identity. 389 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,680 Don't knock it and don't try and take it away from them, 390 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,160 unless you're going to give them something to believe in. 391 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,600 So here comes the Pride of Ardoyne 392 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,600 and they're getting quite a reception from the crowd. 393 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,720 I spotted Michael. 394 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,880 Michael. Michael! Can we come with you? 395 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,160 Yes, by all means! 396 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,080 You've got a massive smile on your face! 397 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,520 It's our culture. It's the best day of the year. 398 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,400 Why are you stopping playing here? Or just going to a single drumbeat. To respect the cenotaph. 399 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,880 The war memorial's just there. 400 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,920 Yup, the people who fought the two world wars and Afghanistan and Iraq. 401 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,760 And here. Yeah, and here, yeah. 402 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,480 That's really interesting, cos as outsiders, 403 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,000 we can perhaps forget that people here, your community, 404 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,440 probably people in your band, fought and bled for Queen and country. 405 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,320 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 406 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,880 And that feels absolutely at your core? 407 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,800 Oh, aye. You have to respect what they've done for this country and for Britain. 408 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,040 For many lining the route, it's a family day out. 409 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,440 CHEERING 410 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,920 But Catholics don't think this day is a time for celebration. 411 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,600 For them, it commemorates a tragic time in their history. 412 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,240 Some Loyalist bands still want to follow traditional routes 413 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,600 close to nationalist areas. 414 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,480 In previous years, enraged Catholics have rioted. 415 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,560 I headed back to the Ardoyne area of Belfast 416 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,560 and met up with Catholic priest Father Gary Donegan. 417 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,480 So I think most Loyalists would see this 418 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,960 weekend as a time of celebration. 419 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,400 How do you see it? 420 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,040 For us, it's a time where people in the community 421 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,920 generally are under siege. 422 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,400 What happens is during a parade, the area becomes like lockdown. 423 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,000 And you see massive police operations. 424 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,600 Let's stop here for a second. 425 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,120 Why do so many Catholics feel under siege at this time? 426 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,880 By the time the evening takes place, that stage, 427 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,280 people have been drinking, people have been taking 428 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,320 all sorts of substance abuse on both sides of the community 429 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,520 and you've got the perfect storm then for a possible riot or public disturbance. 430 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,400 I re-joined the parade. 431 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,680 Tension was rising. 432 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,800 Goodness me! 433 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,200 The Independent Parades Commission had banned marchers 434 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,400 from taking their flags home past the Catholic area up ahead. 435 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,200 So they're singing, if you can't hear, "We want to go home." 436 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,920 # We want to go home. # 437 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,000 But they already knew that the police weren't going to let them through. 438 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,320 What are you feeling about what's up ahead? 439 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,960 I'm nervous. 440 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,000 You're nervous - really? 441 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,040 Yeah, in case something kicks off. 442 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,360 All it takes is one brick, one bottle - you know what I mean? 443 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,960 The Orange Order and bands arrived at the police blockade 444 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,680 and there was a tense standoff. 445 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,360 It wasn't long before violence erupted. 446 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:34,120 Come on, we better go back. 447 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:38,440 Already, instantly - my God, bottles are being chucked, hoods are coming up. 448 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,480 We need to move back out of the way. 449 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,640 Go back. Go, go, go. 450 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,520 So we've now come round behind the police line. 451 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,760 I think the barricade is up ahead. 452 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,760 To me, as an outsider, it all felt bizarre and faintly absurd. 453 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,680 This just has far too much of a feel that... 454 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,760 ..people here have done this for a long time, so there's 455 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,760 lots of camera crews on this side 456 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,960 who clearly know how far these folk can chuck their bottles. 457 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,520 They're at a certain line, then the police are further ahead. 458 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:34,400 It feels like people know what their positions and roles are 459 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,920 in this situation, because it's played out year after year. 460 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,480 God, how depressing. 461 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,440 These local Catholic residents watch from afar. 462 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,160 The police seem to think they might get it from both sides, 463 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,240 but the rioters - this year at least - were all Loyalists. 464 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:04,280 They're chucking bricks, bottles, bolts, even traffic cones. 465 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,320 The water cannon's been brought up. 466 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,360 Incoming! 467 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,480 An officer has just been hit just there. 468 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,400 My God! They're having to drag him away. 469 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,800 The water cannon's being used now, look. 470 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,720 This is going to go on for hours, I fear. 471 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,920 There obviously was a peace process, but there wasn't a resolution 472 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,160 of the fundamental issues that are dividing the society. 473 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,240 So there is now management of stalemate. 474 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,720 And there have got to be advances made in bringing communities 475 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,360 together and integrating them, 476 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,360 getting them to live together. 477 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,720 It's going to take a long time, but this situation here, 478 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,560 this is a small part of the story of Northern Island 479 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,760 and it's a small part of the story of the island of Ireland. 480 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,880 The violence I saw was the only trouble over the entire weekend. 481 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,520 Even just a few streets away, life continued as usual. 482 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,160 For the majority of people living in Belfast, 483 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,320 sectarianism and tribal conflict is largely a thing of the past. 484 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:30,360 You realise quite quickly there's a lot of leafy, middle class suburbs here. 485 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,040 And of course to most of the people who live here, 486 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,280 they'll say, "Well, yes - of course there are." 487 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:40,480 But to many outsiders who still think of Belfast as being a gritty, 488 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,440 grimy city of conflict, they perhaps don't realise that this exists here. 489 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,080 But Belfast is not all flags and fighting. 490 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,000 A lot of it is just very, very normal. 491 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,360 Some of the barriers here are coming down - 492 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,080 the barriers in people's minds. 493 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,760 I'm off to summer school! 494 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,000 Linda Ervine come from a family of leading Unionists, 495 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,320 but she's become a champion of the Irish language and a teacher. 496 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,000 You're from what some would say is the Loyalist royal family, 497 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,440 almost, here in Belfast. 498 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,200 So it's quite unusual that you started to learn 499 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,880 and love the language, because that's the standard view 500 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,240 of Gaelic Irish speakers, that they would be Catholic. 501 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,400 Yeah. And some people would regard the language as something divisive, 502 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,600 something that's saying, you know, that you're nationalist, 503 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,560 that you're in favour of an all-Ireland, for instance. 504 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,080 But, for me, with the language, the Gaelic language actually unites us 505 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,520 and for anybody to deny that, they need to look in their British passport. 506 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,560 Because if they look in their British passport, 507 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,840 it's written in three languages. It's in English, Welsh and Gaelic. 508 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,800 Gaelic is a language of the British Isles. 509 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,080 That is a good point. 510 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,120 And as somebody who uses that passport quite a lot, I think I'd forgotten that. Yeah. 511 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,760 One of the things I don't want to do is I don't want to go down the road 512 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,800 of "We're taking it back" - there's enough of that in Northern Ireland. 513 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,360 What we always wanted to do was just take our place within the Irish language community. 514 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,960 The Irish language, or Gaelic, is associated with being Catholic 515 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,000 and nationalist, but many of the early Protestant settlers here in the north spoke Gaelic. 516 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,720 SHE SPEAKS IRISH GAELIC 517 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,560 I was thinking that this was the real muppet beginner class, 518 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,640 which was probably appropriate for me, but... Did you not know that this is for the fluent speakers? 519 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,840 Yes, I think this is quite advanced, isn't it? We're doing grammar. 520 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,760 We're going to have to get someone to teach Simon some Gaelic. 521 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,200 Um, please. Thank you. Two fried eggs! 522 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,040 You'll also need "Sassenach". Sassenach. 523 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,040 Sassenach - cos you're an Englishman. 524 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,320 SHE SPEAKS IRISH GAELIC 525 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,920 HE REPEATS IN IRISH GAELIC 526 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,800 Linda teaches in an Irish-language school in a Loyalist area. 527 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,280 The schools are springing up across Northern Ireland. 528 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,480 Why do you think so many people are now wanting to learn Irish? 529 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,800 So it's kind of strange. It can totally change your outlook 530 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,800 and I think the work that Linda has done and is doing 531 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:26,160 and the work that's happening in east Belfast is miles ahead, 532 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,360 streets ahead, in terms of community relations. 533 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,440 You look at it. It's 16 years since the Good Friday Agreement. 534 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,480 All the work has been done in a divisive way. 535 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,360 So it's all about - we'll have ten Protestants and ten Catholics 536 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,680 and if we talk about St Patrick's Day, we'll talk about the Boyne. 537 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,960 Everything focuses on difference. 538 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,880 And, for me, all we do is, you know, 539 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:50,680 we're not interested in we'll have 50% Catholics and 50% Protestants - we're offering a language. 540 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,200 Come and learn a language. 541 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,160 And we don't take a note of whether you're Catholic or Protestant 542 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,320 cos I'm not interested. 543 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,840 I'm interested in people who want to learn the language. 544 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,440 And that's what we need to do in Northern Ireland, bring 545 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,600 people together in a way that they can meet, integrate and something 546 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,240 that interests them, rather than focusing on how they're different. 547 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,760 This is home, so to travel to part of my own country 548 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,440 and learn about the situation there has been really fascinating. 549 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,640 I'm leaving Belfast now. I'm leaving Northern Ireland, in fact, 550 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,360 and I'm heading south, continuing my journey. 551 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,320 I travelled down the east coast, crossed the border 552 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,240 into the Republic of Ireland and headed towards the town of Drogheda. 553 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:48,160 In 1649, English forces under Oliver Cromwell attacked 554 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,000 and took Drogheda under an epic siege and battle. 555 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,800 As a result, Cromwell became a hate figure in much of Ireland. 556 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,360 But what exactly happened during the attack is still being 557 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:03,800 argued about to this day. 558 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,840 Tom Reilly is a local historian who has made an extremely 559 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,360 detailed study of first-hand accounts of the period. 560 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,280 Oh, goodness! 561 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,080 Tom, why have we come here? 562 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,680 We've come here because this is the site of exactly where 563 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,320 Cromwell broke into the town. 564 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:24,920 Just over here. The church? 565 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,560 On the wall, yes. Oh, the wall, I see. 566 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,640 In 1649, Cromwell and his Puritan supporters 567 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,880 had just overthrown King Charles I. 568 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,920 Then Cromwell turned his attention to Ireland and Drogheda, 569 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,600 a vital port that was supporting the King. 570 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,040 These are the medieval town walls. 571 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,520 Old Drogheda here. Yeah. You're inside the town walls. 572 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:50,600 And who was inside? 573 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,200 Royalists. This is essentially an extension of the English Civil War. 574 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,160 Why did he want to take Drogheda, then? 575 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,640 Because there was a possibility, a very strong possibility, that an army from Ireland 576 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,280 could have been assembled, could have gone to England, 577 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,440 and could have put the king back on the throne. 578 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,880 Cromwell and his 12,000 troops surrounded the town. 579 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,080 The siege went on for a week. 580 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,560 Cromwell brought in heavy artillery by sea 581 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,280 and pounded the defensive walls. 582 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,680 Eventually, they broke through. 583 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,520 Do we know where the breach was? Yeah, so there's a breach here. 584 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,240 So the wall has been... Well, it looks as though this has been 585 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:35,200 rebuilt a bit. It has. So, this... The breach was from here to there. 586 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,400 Yeah, exactly. 587 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,560 So, if you were standing here, 1649, about five o'clock, 588 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,560 you would hear psalms being sung. You'd be walking on bodies 589 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:44,560 and you'd want to run, 590 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,600 because Cromwell is coming up with a bodyguard 591 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,800 and he means trouble. 592 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,040 Cromwell and his army entered the town. 593 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,560 What happened after that is what is still disputed today. 594 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,240 What is the conventional story of what happened here? 595 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,480 Well, like everybody is still being taught, 596 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,520 I was effectively told that Cromwell, this monster, this ogre, 597 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,200 this blacker than black individual 598 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,680 came to my town and killed, essentially, all the civilians in it. 599 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,320 And this resonated through my childhood. Everybody's childhood. 600 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,120 Not just in this town, but in Ireland. Anyone. 601 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,720 He epitomises English oppression. 602 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,320 And what's your version of what happened here? 603 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,600 My take on that is that Cromwell came to Ireland, 604 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,920 encountered what was essentially an English town, 605 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,400 they took the English town 606 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,400 but they kept the battle in a military context. 607 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,440 You're saying that Cromwell was framed. 608 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,320 I'm exactly saying that. 609 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,120 He wrote a document in 1649, after Drogheda, 610 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,080 and ten times in that document he says, 611 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,760 "Civilians are to be left out of the war." 612 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,360 It's all very clear. There's a mountain of evidence. 613 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,360 Tom's version of events is controversial but fascinating. 614 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,880 Hatred of Cromwell and what he's said to have done in Drogheda 615 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,640 further poisoned the relationships between the Brits and the Irish. 616 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,280 Many Irish schoolchildren are still taught he's the devil incarnate. 617 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,520 Does this all matter, now, in the 21st century? 618 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,360 As I'm concerned, it's history. 619 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,440 All of these things happened in the past. 620 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,280 But, in Ireland, we are still inspired by our history. 621 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,480 We hold our nationalism dear to our hearts 622 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:25,920 and so we hate Cromwell. 623 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,800 If you take Cromwell away, what are we going to hate? 624 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,840 What's not disputed is that after capturing Drogheda, 625 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,640 Cromwell tightened the English grip on the rest of Ireland. 626 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,320 It was another 250 years before Ireland achieved independence. 627 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,240 30 miles south of Drogheda, 628 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,080 I arrived into Dublin, the Republic's capital. 629 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,160 Irish nationalists were staging their own parade here, 630 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,360 organised by Sinn Fein, the republican political party. 631 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:04,120 It was nearly 100 years 632 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,400 since the Easter, 1916 uprising that led to Irish independence, 633 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,400 and they were beginning a series of events to mark the occasion. 634 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,480 This is an extraordinary story 635 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,000 and it's the story of the birth of a nation. 636 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,520 Irish nationalism, in many ways, has gone into the background 637 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:25,880 in the Republic. 638 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,160 It's not front and centre in people's minds. 639 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,120 They've got other concerns 640 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,240 and this is part of a series of events that Sinn Fein are using 641 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:37,200 to try and reawaken that sense of Irish national identity, 642 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:38,640 of one Ireland. 643 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,000 At the beginning of the 20th century, 644 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,160 support for an independent Ireland was gathering speed. 645 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,800 By 1915, public meetings by members of the Republican movement 646 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,000 were banned, so they used the funeral of a revered activist, 647 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,120 O'Donovan Rossa, as a call to arms. 648 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,680 Today, Sinn Fein was staging a re-enactment 649 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,480 of the funeral, attended by party leaders. 650 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,160 It included a reading from a fiery speech by Patrick Pearse, 651 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,440 a nationalist leader at the time. 652 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,920 "We pledge to Ireland our love 653 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,760 "and we pledge to English rule in Ireland our hate. 654 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,520 "Life springs from death 655 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,200 "and from the graves of patriot men and women, spring living nations. 656 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,160 "They think they have provided against everything. 657 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,760 "But the fools, the fools, the fools! 658 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,800 "They have left us our Fenian dead 659 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,160 "and while Ireland holds these graves, 660 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,880 "Ireland, unfree, 661 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,280 "shall never be at peace." 662 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,560 As much as anything, 663 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,600 it was that speech that sparked 664 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,240 the revolution that led to the creation of the Irish Republic. 665 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,560 The Irish Free State was established in 1922, 666 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,240 but the revolutionaries had only won a partial victory. 667 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:12,680 The island was partitioned and six out of 32 counties, 668 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,320 Northern Ireland, remained part of the United Kingdom. 669 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,680 I suppose it's the events, the historic events, 670 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,640 and what's happened here that has inspired this sort of fervency in the extremes. 671 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,360 The sense I get here, though, 672 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,000 is there is still passion for nationalism. 673 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,440 There is still passion for a united Ireland, 674 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,680 but there's not the fire. 675 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,920 Things are changing. Things are developing. 676 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,320 But the dream of the united Ireland, 677 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,840 I think, is gone, certainly for this generation. 678 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,360 The Irish government had held its own ceremony just a few hours earlier. 679 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,680 The Sinn Fein commemoration was a bit of a stunt, 680 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,120 but they need to keep the dream alive for the next generation. 681 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,240 The key event that freed Ireland from the Brits occurred 682 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:12,200 just eight months after O'Donovan Rossa's funeral. 683 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,280 In Easter, 1916, a group of revolutionaries, 684 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,680 mostly volunteers, 685 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,760 launched a bloody rebellion against British rule. 686 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,680 Manchan Magan is a descendent of one of the leaders of the uprising. 687 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,560 We met up in the heart of Dublin. 688 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,800 So we have come to one of the most important, well, areas, 689 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,440 but one of the most important buildings in the history of modern Ireland, haven't we? 690 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,680 This is the Post Office. 691 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,960 This is the hub of any empire. 692 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,360 This was where all telecommunications, 693 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,440 the telegraph came, all mail came. The only way you could control 694 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,240 the realms beyond your own front door was through this building. 695 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,760 If you could destroy this, 696 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,320 you could basically destroy the stranglehold Britain had. 697 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,440 On Easter Monday, 1916, 698 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,240 score of rebels approached the General Post Office. 699 00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:12,720 One of their leaders was Manchan's great grand-uncle, 700 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:14,160 known as The O'Rahilly. 701 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,840 Despite being relatively untrained, 702 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,680 they caught the guards unawares, and seized the building. 703 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,640 So, when they came in here through the doors, 704 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,760 they knew they were most likely not going to leave. 705 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,360 If you're a tiny little group of volunteers 706 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,800 fighting against the might of a massive empire, 707 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,120 you all will be hung or executed at the end. 708 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,680 It's inevitable. 709 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,120 So they wanted a glorious blood sacrifice. 710 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,760 The rebels hoped to take advantage of the British Army being 711 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,840 distracted by the First World War, 712 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,480 but the British government sent thousands of troops 713 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,240 and heavy artillery into Dublin. 714 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,800 A Royal Navy gunboat sailed up the River Liffey. 715 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,600 The British responded with overwhelming force. 716 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,320 The gunboat was dropping bombs 717 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,160 and eventually it starts dropping bombs on top of this building. 718 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:05,800 The roof goes on fire and they decide, 719 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,240 "We need to get out of this building, otherwise the roof is going to fall in on us. 720 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:13,480 "We won't be martyred in a blood bath. We'll just be crushed by a building." 721 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,080 So they decide, "Let's try and escape the side door of the GPO, 722 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,960 "run down Henry Street into Moore Street," 723 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,800 but right at the edge there, there's this whole barricade, 724 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,680 with a Lewis sub-machine gun 725 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,320 and my great grandad, The O'Rahilly, 726 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,080 has his sword out. He's charging and suddenly he's ripped with 727 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,240 bullets from the shoulder, right down to the belly, right across and 728 00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:35,920 he manages to crawl into a doorway here, on what was called Moore Lane. 729 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,480 It's now called O'Rahilly Parade after him. 730 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,880 And, slowly, he dies there. 731 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,280 As it was founded in blood, 732 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,680 you had an identity. 733 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,240 You had a real sense of yourselves. 734 00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,360 Has that helped or has it been a hindrance 735 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,360 or has it just been what it is? Yeah. 736 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,800 Because the fight was so glorious, because it was led by poets 737 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,760 and leaders and idealists, it was a glorious fight 738 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,800 and then we became infused by the myth of that fight and that 739 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,280 did have bad results. 740 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,360 That led to the whole Northern Ireland question. 741 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,800 The strength and passion of the fight clearly was so potent that it 742 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,360 was like an intoxicating dream that has dizzied us all for a century. 743 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,520 And I worry, now, 2016, 744 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,800 that we're going to mire ourselves in the past. 745 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,440 Our only chance now, as a nation, as a world, is to put behind us these 746 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,920 ridiculous dreams of nationhood and struggles for nationality we had 747 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,600 and to try and become pan-global, sort of, human-focused. 748 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,480 The Catholic church was central to the identity of the new nation. 749 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,400 The future Archbishop of Dublin even helped draft the constitution. 750 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,480 Some say the Republic became almost a colony of the Vatican. 751 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,440 But in recent years, the Church has been losing its influence, 752 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,360 largely due to a series of child sex abuse scandals. 753 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,160 Four out of five Catholics went to weekly mass in the 1980s, 754 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,120 compared to one in five today. 755 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,440 That's an enormous change for what was one of the most 756 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,360 conservative and religious countries in the world. 757 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:14,400 In May 2015, Ireland took the world by surprise 758 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,600 and became the first country to vote in a referendum to legalise 759 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,080 gay marriage, 760 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,320 despite fierce opposition from the Church. 761 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,920 I went to Dublin's LGBT film festival 762 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,960 to find out how this dramatic change came about. 763 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:31,200 Hello. 764 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,080 I don't have an invitation but I'm with him. 765 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,640 Is it OK to come in? Thank you. 766 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,920 The curtain raiser for the festival was 767 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,480 a film about the campaign for equal marriage. 768 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,520 I was with film-maker Anna Roberts 769 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,680 and festival organiser Ger Philpott for a gala screening. 770 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,720 It feels like this is such a colossal event in Irish history. 771 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,400 It is. The nation was unified. Yeah. 772 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,040 And when you see the response of people on the screen and why, 773 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,640 it's amazing and it doesn't get tired. 774 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,520 I've watched it quite a few times because it reminds me 775 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,200 of what happened that day. 776 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,240 The Yes vote won by a landslide. 777 00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:19,320 Almost two thirds of Irish people voted in favour of equal marriage. 778 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:23,840 APPLAUSE 779 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,440 VOICE ON FILM: "..a message from this small, independent Republic 780 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:33,320 "to the entire world is one of dignity and freedom and tolerance. 781 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,720 "Liberte, fraternite, egalite!" 782 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,440 CHEERS 783 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,000 CHEERS AND APPLAUSE 784 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,440 There's a calm sense of celebration, I would say. 785 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,320 You've lived through quite an extraordinary evolution, 786 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,080 transition, whatever you want to call it, in Ireland's culture, 787 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,560 in its society. 788 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:10,080 Homosexuality was profoundly illegal here until very recently. 789 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,840 It was pretty awful. I was a criminal in my country. 790 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,000 I certainly shed a lot of tears on the 23rd of May 791 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,680 when the results were coming through. 792 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,720 Was it a victory for your community or was it actually a defeat 793 00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:26,480 for the Church and for the old way of doing things and the old ideas? 794 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,800 I think it was a defeat for the Church in many respects 795 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,640 and I think because of the way society has unfolded here, 796 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,680 and the Catholic Church and the child sexual abuse issues, 797 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,400 people said, "Well, actually, no, thank you. 798 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,360 "We don't have to be dictated to. We can do what we want to do." 799 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,280 It feels to me like you stopped listening to the Church. 800 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,840 Yes, I think so. I think that's probably what it really comes down to. 801 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,600 They lost their grip on us. They lost their power over us. 802 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,400 If the Irish have that fundamental belief in the Church taken 803 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:02,080 away from them, is there a risk that they lose a sense of their identity? 804 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,440 No, I don't think so. 805 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,960 I think that the results on the 23rd of May showed that Irish 806 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:10,040 people are accepting. They're tolerant. They're embracing 807 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,840 and they're welcoming. 808 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,320 That's what Irish people are. 809 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,360 Who would have thought that homosexuality would unify Ireland? 810 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:18,760 I mean, that's pretty amazing. 811 00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,600 Both homosexuality and divorce are now legal, 812 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,480 but the Church hasn't lost all it's power. 813 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:30,080 It's the Church, not the state that runs most of the education system. 814 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,600 CAR RADIO: 'OK, we've go music on the way from Westlife.' 815 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,320 Many think the Church has a role to play in defining Irish identity. 816 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,880 At a radio station on the outskirts of Dublin, I met broadcaster, 817 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,760 Wendy Grace, a spokeswoman for pro-Church group, Catholic Comment. 818 00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:49,440 You are listening to the Morning Show on Spirit Radio. 819 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,320 That track is called Stars Go Dim 820 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,360 and You Are Loved on the Morning Show. 821 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,880 And our next guest is an intrepid explorer. 822 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,040 We're delighted to have him in the studio to tell us 823 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,040 what he's been up to in Ireland, Simon Reeve. 824 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,920 How are you doing, Simon? I'm doing very well. 825 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,680 Thank you very much for having us in here. 826 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,120 You've been to so many amazing places all over the world. 827 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,040 Tell us a little about why you decided to come to Ireland? 828 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,240 Ireland was, until very recently, 829 00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:12,800 quite possibly one of the most 830 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,040 religiously minded, orientated countries in the world. 831 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,520 Church attendance across the board has completely plummeted. 832 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,960 I'm fascinated to know what is happening, 833 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,400 why is it happening, and are people who love the Church, 834 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,120 who are associated with the Church, are they worried about it? 835 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,640 Only last week I was in a church I'd never been in before 836 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,120 and, again, it was full. 837 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,800 And there was young people my age, so I'm often kind of perplexed 838 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,960 because I keep hearing about this kind of, you know, 839 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,360 declining figures and stuff, 840 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,880 but my experience has been very, very different. 841 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,280 I only got ten minutes on the radio and then our time was up. 842 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,000 Right, thank you for having us in. 843 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,360 Can we go and have a cup of tea? Yeah, we can have a cup of tea. 844 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,520 After you. 845 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,080 The Church itself says, "We're in trouble. 846 00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,400 "We've lost a grip on the young, particularly." 847 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,200 It just feels like the tide has changed in Ireland. 848 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,440 The sense of what it is to be Irish has moved away from being, 849 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,280 "Well, we are Catholic. We are traditional," 850 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,320 to being something slightly different. 851 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,560 For so long, like you were saying, 852 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,440 the Church had such an influence in every area of life 853 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,800 that the pendulum has almost swung in the other direction, 854 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,720 where it's kind of the other extreme. 855 00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:27,440 I wonder what our identity is in Ireland at the moment, actually. 856 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,360 I think we're kind of being absorbed into this globalised, 857 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,280 commercial world, where, really, do we have an identity that we can...? 858 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,320 They've swapped Catholicism for consumerism? 859 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,360 I think so, yeah. 860 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,000 Ireland's had a roller-coaster ride. 861 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,640 The Republic's been through a series of incredible transformations. 862 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,160 As recently as the 1980s, 863 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,120 a third of the population here lived below the poverty line. 864 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,360 In just a generation, it's been both a poor European backwater 865 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,480 and a tiger economy. 866 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,680 It's been devoutly religious and now commercialised and globalised. 867 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,960 As the world changes around them, what values will people hold on to? 868 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,920 I'm heading south out of Dublin now. 869 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,920 I am near the end of my journey around the island of Ireland. 870 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,320 But I've still got a couple more things 871 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,120 I'd like to see before I finish. 872 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,600 It's only about five miles from the outskirts of Dublin 873 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,120 to the border with County Wicklow and a stunning national park. 874 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,840 It's one of the most beautiful corners of Europe. 875 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,360 I was heading to meet someone who, as Ireland has changed 876 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,000 around him, has held true to his own set of principles and values. 877 00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:54,040 I'm in the Wicklow mountains now 878 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,120 but I can't tell you exactly where I am 879 00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,760 because I'm heading to a secret sanctuary. 880 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:03,200 Here we go. 881 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:05,840 Secret turn. 882 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,120 Aargh! Is it safe to proceed? 883 00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,000 The only thing is the emus love... 884 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,800 the newer, the shinier the car... Did you say, "the emus"? Yes. 885 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,000 He's waiting for you. 886 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,920 Willie Heffernan lives in this remote sanctuary with 887 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,160 a menagerie of rather unusual rescued animals. 888 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,440 So, this is your bit of paradise by the looks of it. 889 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,080 Well, it's my last retreat. 890 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:29,640 Where are we going? 891 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,040 To the monkeys. 892 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:32,160 To the monkeys? 893 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,880 To see the monkeys, yeah. Let's go and have a look. 894 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,760 Monkeys, then? Well, I got an e-mail... Ah...! It's OK. 895 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:41,840 WILLIE LAUGHS 896 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,040 Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's OK. 897 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,560 I did have a big breakfast, but... 898 00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:50,160 Willie wanted to introduce me to his longest-serving residents. 899 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,600 There's Charlie. Charlie! 900 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,320 Yeah, he likes his treats. 901 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,640 He's an old-timer, you know? 902 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,960 Charlie is a black capuchin monkey who was used in laboratory 903 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,640 experiments for more than a decade. 904 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,400 15 years is a long time in the clink. 905 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,800 You mean Charlie was in a lab? He was being experimented on or what? 906 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,760 Yeah. Here, throw him a crabstick. 907 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,360 Wave it to him. Throw him? Yeah. 908 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,400 Go for the big leaves. 909 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,520 Is that your action of throwing? 910 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,560 Well, I was waving it about. 911 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,000 This is the first time in my life, Willie, I've had to show 912 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:29,640 a crabstick to a monkey. 913 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,600 I know that might come as a surprise, but... Incoming! 914 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:35,440 Oh, nice. 915 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,320 Charlie and the crabstick! 916 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,760 Willie has set up Ireland's first and only monkey sanctuary. 917 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,120 He takes in primates from around the world, 918 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,360 most of which have been used in laboratory experiments. 919 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,400 Here you go. Here you go. Give Sam one. 920 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:07,960 Here you go, Sam. 921 00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:16,200 The monkeys live on islands Willie's carved out of acres of bogland. 922 00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:20,520 I let them go past so they can relax. There are monkeys everywhere! 923 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,160 He's an old-timer, you know? 924 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,240 Charlie's still on the crabstick. 925 00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,840 He took me for a proper introduction with Charlie. 926 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,880 So we're landing on the island? Yeah. Excellent. 927 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,520 This is Charlie's and Sam's island. 928 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,240 There we go. Look at this. Aren't they wonderful? 929 00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:40,840 How is that after 15 years in a cage in the laboratory? 930 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,720 The transformation. 931 00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:46,720 They screamed for six months when they first came, with madness, you know? 932 00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:49,000 So they were completely institutionalised? 933 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,960 And controlled, down to the very grape, the very peanut. 934 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:54,840 You set them free? Yeah. 935 00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,320 How many monkeys have you got? 936 00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:03,560 There's 25 at the moment. I keep getting offered more monkeys. 937 00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,280 You'd take more if you could? 938 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,680 Yeah, absolutely. I was offered 300 the other day, you know? 939 00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,520 What happens to most primates, 940 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,320 most monkeys who are used 941 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:19,040 in laboratories and research centres when their time is up? 942 00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,320 I'd say most of them are euthanized. 943 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,120 That's the way it goes. They're put down. 944 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,000 Yeah, yeah. Sadly, that's it. 945 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,400 Tens of thousands of primates are still being 946 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,040 used in laboratories around the world at any one time. 947 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,120 It's an enormous moral issue. 948 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,600 Many are subjected to horrific experiments, 949 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,920 often for our medical benefit. 950 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,200 Hey, you can't have two. Give him another one. Yeah? 951 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:44,440 Oh, you can. All right. 952 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:47,680 No, you can't fit three in there. 953 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,960 Tell us how you keep the place going. 954 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,600 My old age pension. That's it. 955 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,960 Are you serious? Yeah. 956 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,480 That and donations? 957 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,160 Well, on food, yeah. We don't get any financial support. 958 00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:06,600 At all? No, no. 959 00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:11,080 Willie, I hope that you don't think that I'm exaggerating... No. 960 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,640 ..but this is the most extraordinary place I've been to in Ireland. Fair play to you. 961 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,680 What you have done here is really inspiringly amazing. 962 00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,960 Well, the monkeys tell me that every day. 963 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,360 A monkey sanctuary is the last thing 964 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,120 I expected to find on my travels around Ireland. 965 00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,160 Jesus, I'll need a pint after all this! 966 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,080 He might be unconventional, 967 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,840 but the thing about Willie is that he just really cares 968 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,680 and in that, surely, there's a lesson for us all. 969 00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,720 It's quite a blustery day, but beautiful. 970 00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,960 I'm getting to the end of my journey around Ireland now. 971 00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,160 But look at that view! 972 00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,600 So, just over there is Roslere. 973 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,760 That's where I started my journey around Ireland, 974 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,840 but this is where I finish. 975 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,520 I have loved Ireland and I have loved the Irish. 976 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,760 Being up in the north, of course, felt just like being at home, 977 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,600 but - shh, don't tell them - here in the south 978 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,040 feels pretty familiar as well. 979 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,240 History may have divided us, 980 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,760 but we're really pretty similar. 981 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,160 The Irish are a wonderful bunch and this is a beautiful island. 982 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,800 With the Open University, you can further explore Ireland's 983 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,840 rich history and culture. 984 00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,960 To find out more, go to our website 985 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,400 and follow the links to the Open University.