1 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,880 Long ago, in the years before CGI, 2 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,640 it was a time of giants in Hollywood - 3 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:31,000 an elite group of film-makers who controlled great riches 4 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,120 and told grand stories by mobilising huge armies 5 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:36,400 of cast and crew. 6 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,040 These were heroic tales, 7 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,080 some new, some handed down through generations. 8 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,200 They devised new ways of telling them 9 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,360 in the biggest, widest and most colourful ways they could. 10 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,640 The public came in their millions to marvel at these great works 11 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,160 and they were called...epics! 12 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,240 So, what constitutes a Hollywood epic? 13 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,240 There are different interpretations but most of the films 14 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,760 we're looking at here share some key ingredients. 15 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,000 The setting is usually historical, 16 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,600 often biblical. 17 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,240 I am the god of thy father. 18 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:26,600 The god of Abraham. 19 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,120 The god of Isaac. 20 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,400 And the god of Jacob. 21 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,040 The sets are huge, budgets lavish, 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,000 screens as wide as possible. 23 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,720 The casts number thousands. 24 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,400 And the duration, well... 25 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,880 ..three hours or more wasn't unusual. 26 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,800 The intermissions were as much of a godsend 27 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,880 as some of the storylines. 28 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,080 And then, as we shall see repeatedly, 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,640 there's the Charlton Heston factor, 30 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,360 the actor who, over the years, 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,680 became so associated with the epic 32 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,200 that he once said a film only qualified to be one 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,200 if he was starring in it. 34 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,480 I think the epic film is the most difficult genre 35 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,040 in which to succeed creatively. 36 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,360 Er... 37 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,200 Or, to put it another way, 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,600 it's the easiest film to make lousy. 39 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,080 LAUGHTER 40 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,120 It's terribly easy to let the whole thing just dissolve in kind 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,400 of a seething minestrone of extras with torches 42 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,960 in which individual performers disappear completely. 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,880 Of course, Charlton Heston isn't the only figure inextricably 44 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,040 linked with epics. 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,640 The man usually credited with creating the genre 46 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:55,000 is the legendary producer Cecil B DeMille. 47 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,280 He was one of Hollywood's founding fathers. 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,400 In the 1920s, DeMille made The Ten Commandments 49 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,400 and King Of Kings. 50 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,480 In the '30s, he made Cleopatra 51 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,360 and in the '40s, he had a huge hit with Samson And Delilah. 52 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,240 Then in 1956, he remade The Ten Commandments, 53 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,680 a film that is considered one of the key epics. 54 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,680 Great Pharaoh... 55 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,000 ..I stand in the shadow of your justice. 56 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,320 Whose work is this? 57 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,920 I warned you of his treason, my father. 58 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,320 NEW SPEAKER: Treason? 59 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,920 Judge now if I spoke truly. 60 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,040 The evil star foretold him as the destroyer of Egypt 61 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,880 and deliverer of slaves. 62 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,480 It is not possible. 63 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,160 A prince of Egypt? He is not a prince of Egypt. 64 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,840 He's not the son of your sister. 65 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,320 He's the son of Hebrew slaves. 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:03,920 CROWD MURMUR 67 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,800 DeMille's motivation as a movie-maker was, of course, 68 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,560 partly a desire to make an epic profit. 69 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:16,520 But he was also a man who believed he had a mission from above, 70 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,200 as he explained on a visit to the UK in 1957. 71 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,480 Why did you choose to remake The Ten Commandments 30 years 72 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:25,880 after the first version? 73 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,920 If you could read the letters that I receive - thousands and thousands 74 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,720 and thousands of them - 75 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,640 you would understand why I made the picture 76 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,280 and why I take no financial reward for it. 77 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:42,120 Letters from children and all ages, 78 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,360 up to 96. 79 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:49,520 People would say, "This picture has made God real to me." 80 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,000 That is reward enough in itself? 81 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,800 All the reward that any man can ask in life if he has accomplished that. 82 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,360 Yeah. If he's carried the Word of God 83 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,240 to the hundreds of millions of people 84 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,800 that I have, around the world, he can ask no more. 85 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,960 If he can make God...change God from a myth to so many, 86 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,120 to a reality that they can lean on and have all through their lives 87 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,920 and know and be with them and have an understanding of him. 88 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,360 The Ten Commandments of course had Charlton Heston 89 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,480 playing the central role of Moses. 90 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,640 But Heston wasn't the first actor cast in the film. 91 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,040 That honour went to Yul Brynner, 92 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,000 who played the Egyptian pharaoh Rameses 93 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,880 and got the call during the interval of a stage performance of 94 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,120 The King And I. 95 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,960 Where is this would-be deliverer who would set the Hebrews free? 96 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:51,800 Who can say, Immortal Prince? 97 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,560 They do not confide in me. 98 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:57,880 But it is possible to learn. 99 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,720 No doubt. 100 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,520 You have a rat's ears and a ferret's nose. 101 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,640 To use in your service, son of Pharaoh. 102 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,880 Add to them the eyes of a weasel and find me this deliverer. 103 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,080 I had a rule that nobody could come and see me backstage 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,720 during the play 105 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,560 or in the intermission. 106 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,760 Only after the final curtain. 107 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,680 And the doorman 108 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,720 at the St James Theatre came to me 109 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,920 and said, "There's a grey-haired gentleman 110 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,600 "that says he's Cecil B DeMille 111 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,400 "and he must see you now during the intermission." 112 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,120 I said, "If he doesn't mind seeing me naked, tell him to come in." 113 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,160 He came in and shook my hand. 114 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,960 And he had a wonderful kind of squint and a glint in his eyes. 115 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,960 He was a marvellous man, anyway. 116 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,160 He said, "Mr Brynner, how would you like to be in a movie 117 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,120 "that your great-grandchildren will see?" 118 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,960 I said, "I'd like that very much." 119 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,600 He said, "Well, in that case, please accept to play the Pharaoh 120 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,000 "in The Ten Commandments." 121 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,040 We shook hands and that was our deal. 122 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,960 So Yul Brynner got a handshake from DeMille. 123 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,520 Charlton Heston's casting was down to a hand wave. 124 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,320 I was then working on the Paramount lot, 125 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,120 where he had his independent unit set up. 126 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,080 And I had made a film, was going back to New York to do a play, 127 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,480 was out briefly, and... 128 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,880 ..was very young, very callow then. 129 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,000 But I had been introduced to him. 130 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,280 He'd been one of the major sights of Hollywood 131 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,480 and I was driving off the lot one day in a convertible 132 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,120 with the top down, and passed his building on the steps 133 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,400 of which he was standing with 134 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,480 some key members of his staff, including his secretary who, 135 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,360 contrary to legend, did not take down everything he said 136 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,760 but took down a good bit of it. 137 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,520 And as I drove by, I saw him, of course. 138 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,280 He was instantly recognisable 139 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,720 and I thought, "Well, I've met him. I suppose I should wave." 140 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,920 So I waved. And he nodded graciously and waved back. 141 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,320 And as was later reported to me, 142 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,080 he then turned to Henry Wilcoxon, his associate producer, and said, 143 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,920 "Who was that?" 144 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,000 And Henry didn't know. 145 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,440 And the secretary did and flipped back through her book 146 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:34,000 and she said, "That's Charlton Heston, a New York actor 147 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,560 "who was signed to do a picture by Hal Wallis. 148 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:42,400 "He made the picture. It's called Dark City. You ran it ten days ago, 149 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,240 "you didn't like it." 150 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,120 He said, "Yeah, but I like the way he waved." 151 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,560 LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE 152 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,520 For years afterward, I waved to everybody! 153 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,600 And that's how you got the part of Moses, in fact. Yes. 154 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,000 Amazing. What's it like playing...? You took on this part 155 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,320 in The Ten Commandments. 156 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,800 What interests me is how you play a part like that 157 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,520 unselfconsciously. 158 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,400 How do you unselfconsciously become Moses? 159 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,320 In the case of Moses, as in many other parts, to be on the ground... 160 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,400 The first shot I did as Moses 161 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,160 was to walk barefoot down Mount Sinai. 162 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:29,520 Now, I propose to you, 163 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,720 it's very hard to be in that situation and not feel a little... 164 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:39,760 ..a little capable of leading the Israelites out of the wilderness. 165 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,400 Along with a walk down Mount Sinai, 166 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,440 one of The Ten Commandments' most famous scenes 167 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,360 was the parting of the Red Sea. 168 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,560 Not surprisingly, this was a huge undertaking 169 00:09:55,560 --> 00:10:00,800 and very expensive to shoot, as well as being spectacular. 170 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,360 It was also the source of a much-repeated tall tale. 171 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,040 Well, we did have three cameras on the scene 172 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,520 and there were 8,000 people and 5,000 animals. 173 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,800 And it did take for ever to get them through the shot even. 174 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,280 It's the only DeMille joke I ever heard DeMille laugh at. 175 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,640 It is an apocryphal story, but it is funny, 176 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,440 and it has entered the language. 177 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,960 We finally get them all through 178 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,560 and he turns to the cameraman on the number-one camera, 179 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,640 with the close lens, and he says, "How was that, Fred?" 180 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,480 And he says, "Mr DeMille, I'm sorry, but that camel fell down 181 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,320 "right in front of my lens." He said, "I've got 50 feet 182 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,240 "of marvellous stuff but by the time they dragged him out the way, 183 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,240 "the shot, we were out of film." 184 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,880 And he said. "It's all right, OK, OK." 185 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,320 He said, "You had the 40 on over there, didn't you? How was that?" 186 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,040 He said, "Mr DeMille, my assistant left the lens cap on. 187 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,040 "We got nothing. Not one foot." 188 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,400 Mr DeMille kept control of himself and picked up the loudspeaker. 189 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,520 There was a long camera about a quarter of a mile away, on a ridge. 190 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,560 He said, "How was it for you, Fred?" 191 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,360 He said, "Anytime you're ready, CB!" 192 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,440 LAUGHTER 193 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,440 APPLAUSE 194 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,920 An epic that predated The Ten Commandments was Quo Vadis, 195 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,280 directed by Mervyn LeRoy, 196 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,800 who was a huge admirer of Cecil B DeMille. 197 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,000 There was a man in our business who was pretty well-known - 198 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,840 called Cecil B DeMille - 199 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:49,080 who made a lot of the Roman pictures and big epics, 200 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:50,480 as you know. 201 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,640 And as I was leaving Hollywood, 202 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,640 I called Mr DeMille and I said, "CB..." We were very good friends. 203 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,480 I said, "Why did you make all these spectacles 204 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,520 "and all these things about Rome?" 205 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,920 And he had a great answer, which I think you'd like to hear, 206 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,280 and his answer was, he said, 207 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,440 "Mervyn, why should I let 2,000 years of publicity go to waste?" 208 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,680 And that's a true story. And every day that I shot Quo Vadis, 209 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:16,280 I thought of what he said. 210 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,560 CROWD CHEERING 211 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,400 As with any epic worthy of the name, 212 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,240 the crowd scenes in Quo Vadis 213 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,120 involved thousands of extras. 214 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,280 For most, this would be their first and only acting experience. 215 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,240 But in this case, one future superstar did stand out 216 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,600 from the crowd. 217 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,640 Her name - Sophia Loren. 218 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,000 On Quo Vadis, I went to Rome 219 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,080 and we didn't... 220 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,200 ..even have the money to make a phone call. 221 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,720 So we walked from the station 222 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,320 to Cinecitta 223 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,400 because we knew that Quo Vadis was... 224 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,520 They were shooting Quo Vadis. 225 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,240 And they needed a lot of people to be extras in it. 226 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,520 So just to make a little money, 227 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,720 we went there to Cinecitta, 228 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,800 and we saw Mervyn LeRoy, 229 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,600 and he spotted me right away 230 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,880 and he said, "Come, come." 231 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,360 So... He did this, so I understood it. He said, "Come." 232 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,800 Because I didn't speak a word of English. 233 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,680 So, I did go in his office and he started to ask me many questions 234 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:34,560 and my mother say, "You always say yes. You always say yes. 235 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:37,160 "No matter what he asks you, you say yes." 236 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,240 And finally after half an hour, he really found out 237 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,600 that I didn't speak any word of English, because otherwise 238 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,960 he would have given me my first chance in an American film, 239 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,920 in Quo Vadis, a small part. 240 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,600 But I had to speak English. 241 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,280 But the fact that you took that part, as an extra, 242 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,720 that wasn't really the thing that made you decide, 243 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,120 "I must be an actress"? 244 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,120 You'd already decided that way back? On the trip. Oh, yes, absolutely. 245 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,880 And then... I wanted... 246 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,760 Maybe it was the feeling I wanted to get...out of anonymity. 247 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,120 I wanted to do something. 248 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,720 I needed to work. I didn't have any money. 249 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,840 I had no future, I had nothing. 250 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,280 Two years after Quo Vadis came The Robe... 251 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,720 ..starring Richard Burton as a Roman soldier 252 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,480 whose life is transformed 253 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,000 after the crucifixion of Jesus. 254 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,800 It was notable for being the first feature film shot 255 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,920 in the widescreen CinemaScope format... 256 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,680 ..which presented the actors with a set of unfamiliar challenges. 257 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,760 Well, now, let's move on to The Robe. 258 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,080 This was the first CinemaScope picture ever. 259 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Yes. And there must have been a difference surely for you 260 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,120 in making this? 261 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,480 Well, nobody knew quite what the technique was. 262 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,520 Everybody thought there was going to be a great depth of focus and, 263 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,720 consequently, we had to be ourselves 264 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,080 and not use doubles, for instance, in any dangerous sequence. 265 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,320 It actually turned out not to be like that. 266 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,080 Also, we shot everything in great long takes. 267 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,560 Instead of the normal 40 or 40 seconds or a minute and a half, 268 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,680 you suddenly were doing five and six-minute takes. 269 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,640 Which involves a lot of memory and mental work. 270 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,160 Yes, and it's not anything like as easy as it sounds. 271 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,200 People thought that stage actors would be more adaptable to this 272 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,640 but it's not really so because, unlike the stage, 273 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,800 you have to hit minute spots, you know, for lights and so on. 274 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,560 Yes. And it's a very trying business altogether. 275 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,320 Well, Richard, let's have a look at this excerpt from The Robe. 276 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,040 And this is the part where Richard Burton as the tribune fights 277 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,760 as a Christian for the first time, 278 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,440 against a centurion who's defied him. 279 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,960 Well, what are you waiting for? 280 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,560 Finish it. 281 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,800 You may give that order now, centurion. 282 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,360 It was quite a scrap. How long did it take to work it out? 283 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,600 It took about three months' rehearsal. Mm-hm. And... 284 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,920 But, unfortunately, it should have been shot in one day 285 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,920 but the cut that I received in the arm is real cut. 286 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,720 It wasn't meant... How deep? It wasn't very deep, no, 287 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,600 but it sort of was funny and painful, 288 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,480 so we had to stop shooting for three weeks. 289 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,320 In actual fact, it took a long time to shoot. 290 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,960 Would you call that an occupational hazard? Sort of, yes. 291 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,760 It looked like a full-blooded swipe to me, you know. It was. 292 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,920 Huge battles and spectacular fights 293 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,760 sat right at the heart of most epics, 294 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,960 giving stuntmen and effects teams plenty of opportunities 295 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,240 to surpass themselves. 296 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:28,040 An example, one of the most celebrated scenes in cinema - 297 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,760 the chariot race from 1959's Ben-Hur, 298 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,080 starring that man again... 299 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,400 ..Charlton Heston. 300 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,480 I did not, I hasten to add, do the jump. 301 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,000 The man who did the jump, Joe Canutt, 302 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,880 interestingly enough, is the man that directed all our... 303 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,480 ..action sequences in Antony And Cleopatra. 304 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,080 Yes. He's, I think, the best stuntman in the world, and rapidly 305 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,800 becoming, as his father was before him... Yes. 306 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,040 ..the, one of the best second-unit directors. 307 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,320 But the scene in which the... Ben-Hur's chariot jumps 308 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,960 a wrecked chariot was... Yes. ..that was Joe. 309 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,880 CROWD ROARS 310 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,280 APPLAUSE 311 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,480 We really could see that sequence 100 times 312 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,480 and still pick things out of it which are... 313 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,400 Every time I see it, I get anxious, thinking, 314 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,480 "What if I don't win this time?" 315 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:04,760 LAUGHTER 316 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,640 Was that most demanding part, you think, physically demanding, 317 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,080 that you had to play? 318 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,920 Well, learning to drive the chariot was certainly 319 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,120 an enormously complicated problem for me. Yes. 320 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,840 Even to learn to drive it in a fixed race! Yes. 321 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,320 Fortunately, I had three months in which to learn it before... 322 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,360 And... Which was...an enormous asset. 323 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:29,640 It's... It implanted in me a lifelong resolve, 324 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,920 whenever I have to learn to do anything difficult, 325 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,240 like capturing Spain 326 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,720 or parting the Red Sea... 327 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,920 ..to get a lot of lead time! 328 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,880 Ben-Hur became one of the biggest-grossing films 329 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,880 of all time. 330 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,520 But, interestingly, it wasn't Heston's favourite 331 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,360 of his epic films. 332 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:57,600 He preferred El Cid, a three-hour extravaganza he made in 1961 333 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,880 based on the life of the 11th-century Spanish folk hero 334 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,920 Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar. 335 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,160 The character was an enormously attractive one. 336 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,200 It had an advantage over Ben-Hur in that it was a real person. 337 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,760 The Cid was undoubtedly one of the most remarkable men 338 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,880 of the Middle Ages... 339 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,880 ..and very much, apparently, on the 340 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,120 not insignificant record, very much 341 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,800 as we sketched him in the film. 342 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,040 CHEERING 343 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,960 El Cid is one of the films I would love to be able to make again. 344 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,640 I think... I think it's perhaps true to say it's a good film. 345 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,080 I think, given the material and the character, it could be 346 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,200 a great, great film. 347 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,440 The character offers as much potential for a truly great film, 348 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,240 perhaps the definitive epic film, as any I've ever read, and I think 349 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,080 I've read most of the material for all the epic films that have been 350 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,560 made in the last 15 years! 351 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,520 In fact, the only thing Heston didn't seem too enamoured with 352 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,000 in El Cid was his love interest, 353 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,840 that former face in the crowd, Sophia Loren. 354 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,320 El Cid was the advent of hormone replacement therapy, 355 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,560 because although you aged, Sophia Loren didn't! 356 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,480 But... It irritated me at the time, but I've since thought 357 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,560 that it was necessary to have Jimena, the mythic beauty, 358 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,640 throughout the film... Staying beautiful. 359 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,440 My daughter was not born when that picture was made, but they 360 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,680 rereleased it about eight years later, and I said, "Honey, I want 361 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,320 "you to see this film. 362 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,120 "It has a lot of battles in it, but it's a love story, and I think 363 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,520 "you'll like it." So I took her to the theatre, and when the lights 364 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,080 went up afterwards, why, she'd been weeping appropriately 365 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,320 through the movie, and I said "Well, what did you think, honey?" 366 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,920 And she said, "Oh, Daddy, you were beautiful then!" 367 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,600 Ahhh! 368 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,680 El Cid was directed by Anthony Mann, best known for some 369 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,200 classic Hollywood Westerns. 370 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,880 A year before, in 1960, Mann had been directing 371 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,640 another epic, Spartacus. 372 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,160 But he was fired after just a few days, following a disagreement 373 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,160 with Kirk Douglas, and he was replaced 374 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,040 by the brilliant Stanley Kubrick. 375 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,480 Douglas had been spurred into making the film after missing out 376 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,480 on the lead role in Ben-Hur, and, as he was the producer as well 377 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,720 as the star, on Spartacus, he always got what he wanted. 378 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,960 I didn't have any intentions of becoming a movie mogul 379 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,680 and making a lot of movies, it's just that I wanted to have 380 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,160 more control in the process of making films. 381 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,200 You know, I wanted to play a part in the making of films 382 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,680 and picking films, like Lonely Are The Brave, The Vikings, 383 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,040 Spartacus, Seven Days In May, Paths Of Glory. 384 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,560 I mean, those are movies that my company, Bryna, made, 385 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,320 and I'm proud of them. 386 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,720 He came to me and said, "Listen, I'm going to do this picture. 387 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,720 "I've got this great cast. I need you for a couple of weeks' work." 388 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,240 I says, "Fine, great." 389 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,360 Nine months later... 390 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:32,640 What kind of work did you do? 391 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,080 A singer of songs. 392 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,680 A singer of songs? 393 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,120 In Spartacus, all of us were slaves. 394 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,400 Where did Kirk Douglas come up with that crewcut? 395 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,440 Did he go to the barber in Beverly Hills and say, 396 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,720 "Give me a crewcut - I'm doing this scene in the arena"? 397 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,320 I mean, I never got over that one! 398 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,400 I won't let them crucify you. 399 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:06,800 What are you doing? Do you realise 400 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,240 how long it takes to die on the cross? I don't care! 401 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,560 Forgive me, Antoninus. 402 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,680 Spartacus told the story of a slaves' uprising 403 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,680 against their Roman masters 404 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,240 and drew parallels with America's history of slavery. 405 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,320 It also helped kill off the notorious Hollywood blacklist. 406 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,960 Its writer, Dalton Trumbo, 407 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,040 was accused of being a Communist sympathiser 408 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,640 and had been forced to work under several aliases. 409 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,560 Despite protests, Kirk Douglas decided that Trumbo deserved 410 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,600 a proper screen credit and broke the ban. 411 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,040 Douglas also made sure he was surrounded with some of the finest 412 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,680 acting talent around - Laurence Olivier, 413 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,400 Charles Laughton and Peter Ustinov, who donned a toga for 414 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,600 an Oscar-winning performance as the owner of the gladiator school. 415 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,520 People have said it's the most intelligent epic of all. 416 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,840 Do you reckon that's justified? Yes. It may not be saying much! 417 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,600 No, no, but I really think Kirk Douglas deserves all sorts 418 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,040 of laurel wreaths for his courage... 419 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,200 ..in countenancing such a thing, but I think he's always been slightly 420 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,040 a man who knew exactly how to swim, 421 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,880 where to swim but occasionally chose, 422 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,560 not for no reason, to swim against the tide. Mm. 423 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,600 There are moments in history where you can create a different 424 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,240 movement, and I think he was always conscious of that. And he had 425 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,960 ambitions to be a great producer. I think it's interesting - 426 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,160 to risk whatever it was, $15 million, which at that time 427 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,000 was a huge amount of money, on an adventure like that, 428 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,240 I think was a very brave thing to do and only someone 429 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,320 with his sort of star power could have persuaded the money men 430 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,440 to let him do it. I don't know whether he saw it as a vehicle for 431 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,360 all kinds of different styles of acting. No. 432 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:34,560 I think he saw himself as a kind of superman, but also, 433 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:40,480 when he was dubbing his part and was on the cross, I entered the 434 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,800 dubbing theatre, because somebody gave me a message to deliver to him, 435 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,840 and he was lying on the floor in the position of a crucified man, 436 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,120 but on the floor doing the lines, and he was crucified on the stage. 437 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,880 So I lay down next to him as though I was the man on the next cross 438 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,840 and said, "There's a message." 439 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,080 The thing is, he didn't enjoy it very much, I must say. 440 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,120 Well, you can't go on as long as that 441 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,560 and on that scale without it being troubled, I don't think. Mm. 442 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,760 I know that the producers, the money people, were most nervous of all. 443 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,960 The film went on for so long with all the retakes, and I flew out 444 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,440 to do a retake after it had opened. 445 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,400 Did you? I arrived at night, 446 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,600 did it in the morning and was back on the next plane, which is an awful 447 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,280 long way to go for one line. 448 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,320 And my daughter, that was born at the beginning of it, 449 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,160 by the end of it, was old enough to answer questions 450 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,000 in her kindergarten. "What does your father do?" 451 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000 She was able to say... LITTLE-GIRL VOICE: "..Spartacus!" 452 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,400 Ustinov may have found Spartacus a challenging experience, 453 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,200 but it was nothing compared to one of the most fraught and expensive 454 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,600 productions in cinema history, 455 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,800 Cleopatra. Filming started at Pinewood Studios in 1960, 456 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,240 but then Elizabeth Taylor, the first actor ever paid a million dollars 457 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,240 for a role, fell ill. 458 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,920 The sets were destroyed and the whole production was moved to Italy. 459 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,880 The delay meant a change of cast that saw Rex Harrison brought in 460 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,720 to play Julius Caesar and Richard Burton cast 461 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,360 as Mark Antony. 462 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,800 And so began one of Hollywood's legendary romances... 463 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,480 ..the Burton/Taylor affair, an epic within an epic. 464 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,320 I'd known him since I was 19, and I used to say, "Well, I'm not 465 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,560 "going to be another notch on his belt! Huh!" 466 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,800 And the first day that we worked together, he was suffering 467 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,840 from a hangover. Surprise! 468 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,840 LIVELY CHATTER 469 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,960 And he was looking so vulnerable in his little Roman dress. 470 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,280 And his hands were all shaky. He looked such a mess. 471 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,360 And he was trying to drink a cup of coffee, and his hand 472 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,120 was going like that. 473 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,680 And I said, "Would you like me to help you?" 474 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,720 So I held the cup to his lips 475 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,320 and our eyes locked. 476 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,800 And he drank the whole cup and we just kept looking at each other. 477 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,480 Looking back on your career, it seems to be divided in two, almost 478 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,920 exactly, by Cleopatra. 479 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,040 Would you agree with that, that it changed course 480 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,040 completely after Cleopatra? 481 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,160 Well, I think my life was changed by a woman, you know, 482 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,400 who's called Elizabeth Taylor. 483 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,480 I'm not entirely sure what exactly she did to me. 484 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,920 Well, no, I mean, I adore Elizabeth Taylor, 485 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,640 but, I mean, we did have a certain amount of problems on that. 486 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,200 And I'm very fond of Richard. 487 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,640 But it was a sort of film... It was going very, very well. 488 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,880 We sailed along, Elizabeth and I, for about the usual time, doing 489 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,520 three minutes a day. 490 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,360 We did about three months together as Caesar and Cleopatra, 491 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,240 and then old Richard 492 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,480 came on the scene and then the balloon went up, you see. Right. 493 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,320 And he'd be a... Because he'd been hanging about 494 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,800 in Rome not doing anything, for three or four months. 495 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,040 And so he was determined to put things right when he came 496 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,360 on, because Elizabeth was always apt to be very late on the set. 497 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,240 There was always something wrong, some legitimate excuse. 498 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,760 But she was always keeping us waiting, I must admit. 499 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,640 And so Richard came on determined to sort of put all that right. 500 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,920 So then he started to do a huge he-man act with Elizabeth 501 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,560 and ordering about and things like that, and the company, 502 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,000 Fox, liked that. They said, "You've got her under control." 503 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,880 And then, of course, the great romance started, 504 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,400 which was fine as far as I was concerned, 505 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,440 except I was kept hanging about as Caesar, 506 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,200 because if by some mischance they were incapacitated 507 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,040 in any way, they didn't want to close the studio, so they kept 508 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,240 poor old me waiting around with a few key scenes to play 509 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:24,920 in case of accidents. 510 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,520 I got very fed up with this. 511 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:27,720 I mean, they were paying me, 512 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,960 but I was then doing nothing, like Richard had. 513 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,880 So one day, I decided to play truant and I got on a plane, came to London 514 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,160 and I was trying out a powerboat in Poole Harbour, of all places. 515 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,640 I thought, "I'm safe here. Nobody's going to know. 516 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,880 "They're not going to find me here." 517 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,120 And as I brought the boat back in to the quay, there were a lot 518 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,360 of little men saying, "Hey! Hi! Hi! Quickly, here!" 519 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,800 And of course, Fox had found me. God knows how! 520 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,040 They said, "Now, get on a plane quickly, get to Rome." 521 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,120 I said, "I can't do that immediately." 522 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,600 In Poole! I'd better get a car up, and I'd get the first plane over. 523 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,400 They were very angry with me. 524 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,240 But they couldn't do anything very much. 525 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,360 I'd done too much of the film for them to sack me then. 526 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,120 It promoted, of course, or provoked the great one-liner, didn't it, 527 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,400 allegedly made by a film extra? 528 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,880 "Who do you have to sleep with to get OFF this movie?" 529 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,240 When Cleopatra flopped dismally at the box office, 530 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,960 the age of the epic seemed to be coming to an end. 531 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,520 The 1965 film, The Greatest Story Ever Told 532 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,360 felt like the final nail in the coffin. 533 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,040 For more than four hours, it depicted the life of Christ... 534 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,720 ..and - who else? - Charlton Heston as John the Baptist. 535 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,840 The film is now chiefly remembered for the ridicule prompted 536 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,840 by John Wayne's brief cameo... 537 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,320 ..as the most un-Roman-sounding centurion, 538 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,760 witnessing the crucifixion. 539 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,920 THUNDER CRASHES 540 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,320 HE DRAWLS: Truly, this man was the Son of God. 541 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,000 Of course, despite John Wayne's efforts, 542 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,440 the epic WOULD rise again over the years 543 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,200 in various styles and lengths. 544 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,120 And then in 1998, came a film that seemed to promise a disaster 545 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,360 of Cleopatra-style proportions... 546 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,800 ..Titanic. 547 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,200 It was the first film 548 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,800 to cost a budget-busting $200 million. 549 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,600 The director, James Cameron, 550 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,920 had a reputation as the scariest man in Hollywood. 551 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,440 The cast and crew got sick 552 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,120 from spending so much time filming in water. 553 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,880 But somehow Titanic defied all expectations, 554 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,480 becoming a phenomenon 555 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,360 and then the most successful film ever made! 556 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,720 Its success was down not just to the effects and spectacle 557 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:49,680 but also the romantic story of its two central characters, 558 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,400 played by Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet. 559 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,240 To me, it was an extraordinary love story and 560 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:02,600 remains to be that. 561 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,240 And when I read the treatment, I think it is very rare that 562 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,440 as an actor and an individual, you can be genuinely moved by a novel 563 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,040 or a script. 564 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,680 I was on an aeroplane when I read it and was just in floods of tears 565 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,080 at the end. And a treatment is very different to a script, 566 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:23,000 it's more a sort of a precis version of what will eventually be said 567 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,280 and has more description, as opposed to dialogue, 568 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,280 but nevertheless, floods of tears. And I thought, "I've got to do this. 569 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,680 "I've really got to do this." 570 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,280 All right. Open your eyes. 571 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,600 I'm flying! 572 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,840 Now, while the film was being made and the budget was getting bigger 573 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,320 and bigger and bigger 574 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,160 and the cynics around the place were saying, "This is going to be 575 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,400 "the biggest turkey of all time," did you get at all discouraged? 576 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,760 Did you at any point think, "What the hell am I doing?!"? 577 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,720 No, I never got discouraged, because I had so much sort of belief in it. 578 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,600 Leo and I... Well, we all did. 579 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,240 But Leo and I particularly were adamant that this love story 580 00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:18,480 was going to be the thing that made people connect with this film. 581 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,080 You know, to us it was never about a sinking ship, it was 582 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,920 never another Titanic movie. 583 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,800 And we believed that if we really stuck together, we could make people 584 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,600 forget that it was, you know, the Titanic. 585 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:30,880 Now it's opened, 586 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,320 and of course, I mean, all those critics and cynics have been totally 587 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,280 refuted, because it's a huge success in America, isn't it? Yes! 588 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,160 Yeah, yeah, right. 589 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,680 Were you at all surprised by that, that it opened so big in America 590 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,840 with not only popular acclaim but critical acclaim? 591 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,880 Jim Cameron doesn't do things half-heartedly, 592 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,400 so I always knew that he was adamant that this was going to be right 593 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,240 across the board and a big, epic thing. 594 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,080 I think part of me was sort of slightly afraid of connecting 595 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,520 with that, because I didn't really want to think about what it might do 596 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,600 in terms of my career, because I so want to kind of be 597 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,640 at home and see my family and work because I love my job, 598 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,120 not for any other kind of commercial reason. 599 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,120 So I never entertained much thought in that direction. 600 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,960 But now that that is happening, it's incredibly exciting. 601 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:25,720 The new technology that helped sink the Titanic 602 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:30,560 was used in equally stunning effect in another modern epic... 603 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,200 ..Gladiator, starring Russell Crowe and directed by Ridley Scott... 604 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,840 ..and with echoes of Spartacus. 605 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,200 The film had crowds cheering in cinemas as well as 606 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,640 in its own CGI-created arenas. 607 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,760 When he comes out, that shot is not just 360 degrees, it's about 608 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,600 420 degrees, because it keeps on going. 609 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,080 They painted that in with sampling shots of the existing arena 610 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,640 that I'd built, sampling crowd that I had, 611 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,160 though I never had more than 3,000 people. 612 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,160 And then they put in 56,000 people, five tiers, 613 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,640 and the whole giant arena plus the velarium. 614 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,800 Graphics were also used to create scenes featuring Oliver Reed, 615 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,840 who died during the film's production. 616 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,120 I too want to stand in front of the emperor... 617 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,720 ..as you did. 618 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:36,560 Then listen to me. Learn from me. 619 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,760 I wasn't the best because I killed quickly. 620 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,680 I was the best because the crowd loved me. 621 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,000 I will give them something they've never seen before. 622 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,920 CHEERING 623 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,400 But something that was very real were the tigers, 624 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,360 bringing a true sense of danger to the fight scenes. 625 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,640 The thing about those tigers is they won't do as they're told. 626 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,880 They're basically about 11 feet from the tip of their tail 627 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,360 to the tip of their nose, and they're about 600 pounds. 628 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,000 The worst thing about them is that when you say, "Action," they never 629 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,040 follow through on what they've been trained to do, they tend to wander 630 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,200 off and sit down and scratch themselves. 631 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,920 But then occasionally, he would be on his feet and the whole camera 632 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,320 crew unit would scramble, and there'd be four cameras left 633 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,640 like little islands, unmanned! 634 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:44,280 Another director pushing the boundaries of computer graphics 635 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,080 is Peter Jackson, 636 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,960 the man who turned JRR Tolkien's Lord Of The Rings saga 637 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:57,200 into an epic film trilogy and somehow repeated the trick 638 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:01,560 with Tolkien's much shorter story, The Hobbit. 639 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,160 Right from the very beginning, back in the Rings, back, you know, 640 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,800 probably 15 years ago now, 641 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,920 we set about making them feel as historical as possible, giving them 642 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,520 an authentic feel, which is what 643 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,840 the languages and the subtitles are great for. 644 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,760 They're languages that Tolkien created himself. 645 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,360 The king has never let Orc filth roam our lands, 646 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,880 yet he would let this Orc pack cross our borders and kill our prisoners. 647 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,360 It is not our fight. 648 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,320 It IS our fight. 649 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,200 Once you have somebody talking in a language you don't understand, with subtitles, 650 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,920 you get a sort of a sense of authenticity about it, no matter 651 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,760 how fantastical the story is. 652 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,640 I do mourn the fact that cinema is becoming... 653 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,320 ..harder to attract young people to go and, you know, spend their money 654 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,960 and sit down and plump themselves in a cinema. 655 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,520 God, when I was a kid, I used to... Every weekend, I'd go to the movies. 656 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,800 Sometimes I watched three movies in a row. 657 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,720 Your parents thought, "He's wasting his life away," did they? 658 00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:08,560 Yeah, they did, they did, to some degree. 659 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,560 The tales and songs fall utterly short of your enormity, 660 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,840 O Smaug the Stupendous. 661 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,160 The one thing I don't want to think about is the fact that most people... 662 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,160 Probably more people will end up seeing this movie of ours 663 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,600 on an iPad or an iPhone than what's going to see it on the big screen. 664 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,840 Don't be shy. 665 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,480 Step into the light. 666 00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,880 It's the entertainment business. That's what it's called. 667 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,520 And that's what we are in. We're in the entertainment business. 668 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,480 So do smaller screens and cinema-averse audiences 669 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,520 mean the epic is facing extinction? 670 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,640 Perhaps. 671 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,000 But consider this, 672 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,920 Peter Jackson's final episode of The Lord Of The Rings trilogy - 673 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,360 The Return Of The King, 674 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:04,960 James Cameron's Titanic... 675 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,040 ..and Ben-Hur 676 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:13,320 all share the record for the most Academy Awards won by a single film. 677 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,200 Each of them grabbed an epic-sounding 11 Oscars. 678 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:26,280 So when it comes to cinema's ultimate indicator of success... 679 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:32,000 ..the epic is still reigning supreme, 680 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,400 even in the 21st century.