1 00:00:21,140 --> 00:00:25,500 'Once upon a time, most women aspired to be ladies.' 2 00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:27,700 Lady Catherine de Bourgh. 3 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:30,260 'A lady was easy to define. 4 00:00:30,260 --> 00:00:35,500 'She wore corsets and voluminous skirts and rode side-saddle. 5 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:39,220 'She had impeccable manners.' How do you do, Mr Ferris? 6 00:00:39,220 --> 00:00:41,820 'And above all, a lady knew her place. 7 00:00:43,140 --> 00:00:47,740 'That veiled Victorian ideal of a decorous femininity 8 00:00:47,740 --> 00:00:52,820 'was ripped away by a century of sexual and political progress for women. 9 00:00:52,820 --> 00:00:57,100 'The lady became associated with male oppression and inequality. 10 00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:59,420 'Her prim ways had no place in a world 11 00:00:59,420 --> 00:01:02,580 'where women could behave as badly as men. 12 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:06,020 'The lady was, well, a bit ridiculous.' 13 00:01:06,020 --> 00:01:10,060 Two ladies for tea, please! Yes, of course, this way. 14 00:01:12,980 --> 00:01:15,420 'My name is Rachel Johnson 15 00:01:15,420 --> 00:01:17,940 'and I believe we've been a bit hasty 16 00:01:17,940 --> 00:01:20,860 'in giving the lady her marching orders. 17 00:01:20,860 --> 00:01:25,540 'Somehow a global recession and a royal wedding 18 00:01:25,540 --> 00:01:27,940 'have led to a renewed interested in all things ladylike, 19 00:01:27,940 --> 00:01:33,740 'not least as an alternative to the ladette excesses of the noughties. 20 00:01:33,740 --> 00:01:36,780 'Given the years I spent editing The Lady magazine, 21 00:01:36,780 --> 00:01:40,380 'you may think I would say that. But just look around you 22 00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:42,900 'at the way we're encouraged to behave and dress 23 00:01:42,900 --> 00:01:46,820 'and at who our latest style icon is. 24 00:01:46,820 --> 00:01:49,140 'In this film, I'm going to take a closer look 25 00:01:49,140 --> 00:01:52,580 'at this unlikely return of the lady 26 00:01:52,580 --> 00:01:55,860 'and find out what it takes to be one today. 27 00:01:57,060 --> 00:02:02,020 'From etiquette classes in how to be ladylike...' THEY LAUGH 28 00:02:02,020 --> 00:02:05,300 '..to the reinvention of the debutante's ball, 29 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:08,660 'and I'll even learn to ride side-saddle.' 30 00:02:08,660 --> 00:02:11,940 This is very Downton. It's very Lady Mary, this. 31 00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:17,140 'So is the lady revival part of a marked return to all things refined and restrained?' 32 00:02:17,140 --> 00:02:20,300 It's about bringing a kind of formality and elegance 33 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:22,980 back into a culture which is really quite vulgar. 34 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:27,460 'Or is it an attempt to fashion a more socially-conservative, 35 00:02:27,460 --> 00:02:31,700 'economically-secure future for young females?' 36 00:02:31,700 --> 00:02:35,060 I think it was a good thing that we got away from the lady 37 00:02:35,060 --> 00:02:38,860 and I don't want to see her back. 38 00:02:38,860 --> 00:02:44,540 'This is my quest to find out how the idea of the lady has changed over time 39 00:02:44,540 --> 00:02:47,140 'and what it means to be a lady now.' 40 00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:06,580 'As your self-appointed guide for this programme, 41 00:03:06,580 --> 00:03:08,940 'I need to put something out there. 42 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:12,660 'I'm not entirely sure that I can claim to be a lady.' 43 00:03:13,740 --> 00:03:18,180 I don't, in all situations, put others first. 44 00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:22,700 I can be rude, I can be abrupt, I can be pushy. 45 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:28,820 Am I a lady? Well, my husband defines me as everything a lady is not. 46 00:03:28,820 --> 00:03:32,380 He says his definition of a lady is everything I am not. 47 00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:36,900 Which is fair-minded and generous of him. 48 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:39,060 SHE LAUGHS 49 00:03:45,780 --> 00:03:48,980 'The original definition dates back to the chivalrous age 50 00:03:48,980 --> 00:03:51,740 'of fair maidens and gentile parfit knights, 51 00:03:51,740 --> 00:03:57,100 'when a woman of royal blood or high birth was given the title Lady. 52 00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:59,940 'It reflected her rank in society 53 00:03:59,940 --> 00:04:03,540 'and was the equivalent to male titles such as Lord. 54 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:11,060 'But what began as a term of aristocratic respect 55 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:16,940 'gradually evolved into something much broader and indefinable. 56 00:04:18,380 --> 00:04:21,180 'Being a lady became almost a job description 57 00:04:21,180 --> 00:04:24,580 'rather than a signifier of rank. It was a profession, 58 00:04:24,580 --> 00:04:28,660 'and like all professions, it had its willing apprentices.' 59 00:04:28,660 --> 00:04:31,580 What is it you want? 60 00:04:31,580 --> 00:04:35,020 I wanna be a lady in a flower shop 61 00:04:35,020 --> 00:04:37,500 instead of selling on the corner of Tottenham Court Road, 62 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:40,020 but they won't take me 'less I talk more gentile. 63 00:04:40,020 --> 00:04:44,340 'Therefore there had to be compendious guide books and magazines 64 00:04:44,340 --> 00:04:49,260 'to set out what it took to achieve the exalted state.' 65 00:04:51,660 --> 00:04:57,020 "What is a lady? The question is not one of birth, position or means. 66 00:04:57,020 --> 00:05:00,340 "True ladyhood is of the heart rather than of the head..." 67 00:05:00,340 --> 00:05:05,420 'It all sounded rather romantic and, let's be honest, a bit vague. 68 00:05:05,420 --> 00:05:07,540 'So with these etiquette books to guide me, 69 00:05:07,540 --> 00:05:10,940 'I set out to see whether Pygmalion was still possible. 70 00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:14,380 'Is a lady to the manor born or made?' 71 00:05:23,580 --> 00:05:27,460 "The first attribute of a lady is habitual courtesy, 72 00:05:27,460 --> 00:05:31,460 "not only to her nearest and dearest but to everyone who crosses her path." 73 00:05:31,460 --> 00:05:35,060 'I'd heard about a company called The English Manner 74 00:05:35,060 --> 00:05:39,740 'that claimed to teach accomplishments to aspirant young ladies, 75 00:05:39,740 --> 00:05:44,500 'so I travelled to Cheshire to attend a crash course in flower arranging and table manners, 76 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:47,420 'hosted by William Hanson and Diana Mather.' 77 00:05:47,420 --> 00:05:49,780 Hello. How do you do? I'm Diana Mather. 78 00:05:49,780 --> 00:05:52,660 Hello, Diana. Rachel Johnson. Hello, Rachel. Nice to meet you. 79 00:05:52,660 --> 00:05:55,780 May I introduce first of all William Hanson? Hello. How do you do? 80 00:05:55,780 --> 00:05:57,940 Hello, William, I'm Rachel Johnson. 81 00:05:57,940 --> 00:06:00,180 And then our other students. 82 00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:04,580 So, one of the first things to teach you is a proper handshake. 83 00:06:04,580 --> 00:06:08,020 So, if you'd like to stand up please, girls, and shake each other's hands 84 00:06:08,020 --> 00:06:11,100 and judge your handshake and the other person's handshake. 85 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:13,940 What can you learn? Rachel, I'll shake your hand. 86 00:06:13,940 --> 00:06:16,220 Yes, that's not a bad one. 87 00:06:16,220 --> 00:06:18,820 I would say just a couple... Not a bad one? Yes. 88 00:06:18,820 --> 00:06:22,260 I would say there are a few too many pumps there. Few too many pumps? 89 00:06:22,260 --> 00:06:24,380 OK, let's try again. 90 00:06:24,380 --> 00:06:26,940 Hello, I'm Rachel. Perfect. 91 00:06:26,940 --> 00:06:29,300 You mean I went on too long? Yes, a little bit. 92 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,220 The Americans would go on for seven seconds. Seven seconds? 93 00:06:32,220 --> 00:06:34,980 Yes, but we do, "Hello, how do you do? I'm Diana." 94 00:06:34,980 --> 00:06:37,500 You're right, I do carry on. I carry on shaking. 95 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:40,380 And it can be very nice, but in the end, nobody knows when to stop. 96 00:06:40,380 --> 00:06:44,300 It's just, "How do you do?" really. 97 00:06:45,460 --> 00:06:49,780 'This isn't a great start. Even my handshake is unladylike. 98 00:06:49,780 --> 00:06:54,140 'Would I fare any better in the next task, Jeffrey Archer balancing?' 99 00:06:55,700 --> 00:06:58,580 Now, the old cliche of finishing schools 100 00:06:58,580 --> 00:07:00,860 is a book on the head. 101 00:07:00,860 --> 00:07:04,260 We have Jeffrey Archer here, he's quite small and compact and easy. 102 00:07:04,260 --> 00:07:06,660 Now, why a book on the head? 103 00:07:06,660 --> 00:07:09,740 Well, young ladies were taught to glide 104 00:07:09,740 --> 00:07:13,860 because they had their full, long dresses and you shouldn't even have thought they had feet. 105 00:07:13,860 --> 00:07:16,140 They would look as though they went on wheels. 106 00:07:16,140 --> 00:07:20,020 This is going to be hopeless. I think I've got a pointy head. 107 00:07:20,020 --> 00:07:22,340 Seriously, some people have. I do have an egg head. 108 00:07:22,340 --> 00:07:25,420 The Japanese cannot do this because they have such pointy heads. 109 00:07:25,420 --> 00:07:28,460 That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Right. 110 00:07:28,460 --> 00:07:31,980 Look straight ahead. Relax. Relax the arms. 111 00:07:31,980 --> 00:07:34,580 Relax the arms. A little bit faster. 112 00:07:34,580 --> 00:07:38,060 That's it. Slight... THEY LAUGH 113 00:07:38,060 --> 00:07:40,500 Now, come on, girls, heads up. 114 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:43,140 That's good. Now off you go. 115 00:07:43,140 --> 00:07:46,260 'Deportment, the art of walking gracefully, 116 00:07:46,260 --> 00:07:48,300 'with or without a book on your head, 117 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:51,140 'was an essential part of a lady's training. 118 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:55,180 'In the early '60s, women were even being taught 119 00:07:55,180 --> 00:07:59,020 'the right way to get out of a car...' Come along, get out. 120 00:07:59,020 --> 00:08:01,620 '..with or without a car.' 121 00:08:01,620 --> 00:08:04,900 Ghastly, isn't it? Now, you must remember 122 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:08,300 that the secret of getting in and out of a car seat 123 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:11,700 is to get your seat well back into the car seat. 124 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:15,220 Now knees together, swing them both forward, 125 00:08:15,220 --> 00:08:19,060 both legs together. That's very much better. 126 00:08:19,060 --> 00:08:22,220 'We've always described these rules of ladylike behaviour 127 00:08:22,220 --> 00:08:25,340 'as etiquette, a French phrase meaning ticket of admission, 128 00:08:25,340 --> 00:08:28,100 'that dates back to the 17th century 129 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:30,700 'and the strict code of aristocratic conduct 130 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:33,260 'devised in the court of Louis XIV. 131 00:08:34,420 --> 00:08:39,900 'Nowadays it's recognised that etiquette is good business practice, too.' 132 00:08:41,300 --> 00:08:44,980 Etiquette is the code of rules by which a society lives. 133 00:08:44,980 --> 00:08:47,740 And that changes from time to time and country to country 134 00:08:47,740 --> 00:08:50,020 and society to society. 135 00:08:50,020 --> 00:08:55,420 So what we are really teaching is international business etiquette that will take you anywhere, 136 00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:59,940 and also formal parties and dining. 137 00:08:59,940 --> 00:09:03,260 So, the way you enter a room is really important, 138 00:09:03,260 --> 00:09:06,540 that you actually capture your audience immediately, 139 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:08,540 as William is going to demonstrate. 140 00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:11,100 Here's how to leave a room correctly. 141 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:14,300 You say goodbye to everyone, we're not worrying about what you say, 142 00:09:14,300 --> 00:09:17,380 you say goodbye to everyone, you walk up to the door, 143 00:09:17,380 --> 00:09:19,900 open it, say, "Nice to see you all. Bye-bye." 144 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:22,140 Ah! That was great! 145 00:09:22,140 --> 00:09:24,780 And then close the door. And when you're coming in... 146 00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:31,020 Close the door, door goes behind you, 147 00:09:31,020 --> 00:09:34,060 and they've seen your face and you go and shake their hand, like so. 148 00:09:34,060 --> 00:09:37,940 And you've got the eye contact and they've got your eye contact immediately. 149 00:09:37,940 --> 00:09:41,340 And for something like a job interview, this can be really important. 150 00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:43,900 Plus that fact, it's most elegant. And funnily enough, 151 00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:49,700 the two executive women we've had on the course said that was the most important thing they learned. 152 00:09:49,700 --> 00:09:53,620 That's really good. Which is extraordinary considering everything else we taught them. 153 00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:56,580 But she found that so useful. She works in a male environment 154 00:09:56,580 --> 00:10:00,220 and to come in, standing there, using her space, 155 00:10:00,220 --> 00:10:03,020 making her presence felt, that's what it's all about. 156 00:10:03,020 --> 00:10:05,220 Bye, Rachel. 157 00:10:05,220 --> 00:10:08,580 THEY LAUGH 158 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:16,300 It's supposed to have been fixed! 159 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:19,140 THEY LAUGH 160 00:10:19,140 --> 00:10:21,860 'I can't even open a door without breaking it, 161 00:10:21,860 --> 00:10:24,260 'so I can see the point of her course. 162 00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:28,660 'But I'm keen to know what these young ladies expect to get out of it.' 163 00:10:28,660 --> 00:10:33,180 And Hattie, are you here because you want to be more ladylike? 164 00:10:33,180 --> 00:10:37,420 Erm, I'm not sure it's a question of wanting to be more ladylike, 165 00:10:37,420 --> 00:10:42,820 I think it's a question of acquiring some basic skills and manners. 166 00:10:42,820 --> 00:10:47,580 But I think it's about gaining some self-respect and self-confidence, 167 00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:51,660 which William and Diana were speaking about earlier, for example, opening a door, 168 00:10:51,660 --> 00:10:56,340 and kind of giving you some easy tips and tricks to make your life a bit easier 169 00:10:56,340 --> 00:10:58,540 and a bit more comfortable 170 00:10:58,540 --> 00:11:00,780 and being confident and gaining respect 171 00:11:00,780 --> 00:11:06,260 from your partner or your friends or in a business situation, really. 172 00:11:06,260 --> 00:11:09,540 And Pippa, what do you think you're going to get out of it? 173 00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:12,620 Erm, I like the door, 174 00:11:12,620 --> 00:11:15,780 not leaving your backside open to everybody. 175 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:18,180 And the meal, how you... 176 00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:22,100 I always get confused with which is my glass and which is my plate. 177 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:24,740 But William was saying earlier that it's BMW, 178 00:11:24,740 --> 00:11:28,180 so it's bread, main and wine. 179 00:11:29,260 --> 00:11:32,300 'The rules that the etiquette gurus teach today 180 00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:36,620 'might prepare a woman for a formal dinner or a Japanese business meeting, 181 00:11:36,620 --> 00:11:40,660 'but Diana suggested such efforts reflected a more profound return 182 00:11:40,660 --> 00:11:43,820 'to all things ladylike.' 183 00:11:43,820 --> 00:11:46,780 So you think that this move towards young women 184 00:11:46,780 --> 00:11:49,020 wanting to act and be treated like ladies 185 00:11:49,020 --> 00:11:51,220 is to do with a sense of security, 186 00:11:51,220 --> 00:11:54,980 that we've got so far that we can now, in a sense, go back. 187 00:11:54,980 --> 00:11:57,220 Because I think we are secure enough, 188 00:11:57,220 --> 00:12:01,260 we've got to high enough positions, we've been working as equals for long enough. 189 00:12:01,260 --> 00:12:05,180 Men and women are different, thank God. Vive la difference. 190 00:12:05,180 --> 00:12:08,700 And so we now should be secure in our own genders 191 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:11,660 not to have to behave like men to be taken seriously, 192 00:12:11,660 --> 00:12:13,740 cos we know we can do the job just as well, 193 00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:16,180 to keep our femininity, and I think that's quite important. 194 00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:22,860 No woman can be really esteemed accomplished 195 00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:26,260 who does not also possess a certain something in her air, 196 00:12:26,260 --> 00:12:29,100 in the manner of walking, in the tone of her voice, 197 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:31,220 her address and expressions. 198 00:12:37,140 --> 00:12:40,700 'So many of our notions about what it means to be a lady 199 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:44,780 'seem to be drawn from period dramas and 19th-century novels, 200 00:12:44,780 --> 00:12:48,900 'with their haughty aristocrats and long-suffering heroines. 201 00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:53,140 'But as historian Emma Clery explained, 202 00:12:53,140 --> 00:12:57,340 'it's in the work of Jane Austen that the very idea of the lady 203 00:12:57,340 --> 00:13:00,860 'begins to be questioned and redefined.' 204 00:13:00,860 --> 00:13:03,860 It's very experimental in the way that it takes up 205 00:13:03,860 --> 00:13:06,900 the notion of the lady, and I think does challenge 206 00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:12,180 various, sort of, conventions of fashionable ladyhood. 207 00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:18,620 Pride And Prejudice, in the scene where Elizabeth arrives at Netherfield 208 00:13:18,620 --> 00:13:23,220 to visit her sister who's fallen ill at Mr Bingley's residence. 209 00:13:26,020 --> 00:13:29,340 And, of course, she rejects the idea of going in a carriage, 210 00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:32,860 she walks across country, she arrives with a muddy hem, 211 00:13:32,860 --> 00:13:35,540 the soiled slippers, 212 00:13:35,540 --> 00:13:39,300 and is sneered at for that by Bingley's sister. 213 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:41,900 I could hardly keep my countenance. 214 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:45,740 What did she mean by scampering about the country because her sister has a cold? 215 00:13:45,740 --> 00:13:48,900 Her hair, Louisa! Her petticoat! 216 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:53,340 'And yet she's held up as a kind of counter-example 217 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:57,300 'of naturalness and real feeling, proper sensibility, 218 00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:01,740 'by contrast to these artificial women in the great house.' 219 00:14:01,740 --> 00:14:06,340 Is Jane Austen playing with the notion that you could be a lady 220 00:14:06,340 --> 00:14:09,460 both by birth and breeding and also by behaviour? 221 00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:12,940 I think there's a strong egalitarian impulse in Austen 222 00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:16,180 and perhaps you see that very clearly 223 00:14:16,180 --> 00:14:19,260 in the famous scene towards the end of Pride And Prejudice 224 00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:26,420 where Elizabeth is discussing Mr Darcy with Lady Catherine de Bourgh. 225 00:14:26,420 --> 00:14:29,460 So here you have a lady by birth 226 00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:32,300 staking a claim to Darcy 227 00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:36,060 on behalf of her daughter, another lady by birth, 228 00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:40,380 and on the other hand, Elizabeth saying that 229 00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:42,700 simply by virtue of being a gentleman's daughter, 230 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:46,340 she has as good a right to the kind of glorious future 231 00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:49,340 which marriage to Mr Darcy might offer. 232 00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:54,780 So she's very much challenging the status quo in that way. 233 00:14:54,780 --> 00:14:58,820 It was the favourite wish of his mother as well as hers. 234 00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:02,660 While she was in her cradle, we planned the union. 235 00:15:02,660 --> 00:15:06,700 And now to be prevented by the upstart pretensions 236 00:15:06,700 --> 00:15:11,460 of a young woman without family, connections or fortune? 237 00:15:11,460 --> 00:15:14,780 Is this to be endured? It shall not be! 238 00:15:14,780 --> 00:15:18,580 Your alliance would be a disgrace! 239 00:15:18,580 --> 00:15:22,220 Your name would never even be mentioned by any of us. 240 00:15:22,220 --> 00:15:24,820 These would be heavy misfortunes indeed. 241 00:15:24,820 --> 00:15:29,260 Obstinate, headstrong girl! I'm ashamed of you! 242 00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:32,180 'In Austen's world, a title alone was not enough. 243 00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:35,220 'As manners maketh man, it took something deeper, 244 00:15:35,220 --> 00:15:38,260 'something spiritual, even, to make a lady.' 245 00:15:38,260 --> 00:15:42,660 It's all about developing this core strength, you could say, 246 00:15:42,660 --> 00:15:47,020 this inner strength which will carry you through all the privations 247 00:15:47,020 --> 00:15:51,500 and frustrations and annoyances which are women's lot in life. 248 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:55,220 You make being a lady sound like an endless pilates lessons 249 00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:59,180 where a woman has to endlessly strengthen her moral backbone 250 00:15:59,180 --> 00:16:02,940 in order to survive life. I think that probably is how they saw it. 251 00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:06,060 I think there was an acknowledgement that it was pretty tough being a lady. 252 00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:09,500 'At a time when a dirty petticoat was scandalous 253 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:12,020 'and bonnets alone were a full-time job, 254 00:16:12,020 --> 00:16:14,540 'one of the toughest challenges facing a lady 255 00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:16,500 'was the way she dressed.' 256 00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:30,420 "A true lady is always well because suitably dressed. 257 00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:33,500 "She sacrifices extremes of fashion to comfort, 258 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:36,300 "puts her clothes on carefully and properly, 259 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:39,180 "is scrupulously particular of her shoes..." 260 00:16:39,180 --> 00:16:44,500 'Today, the fashion press will preach that this season's look is ladylike. 261 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:46,660 'But at the end of the 19th century, 262 00:16:46,660 --> 00:16:50,220 'ladylike was an obligation rather than a trend. 263 00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:54,140 'I wanted to know more about the strict uniform of the lady 264 00:16:54,140 --> 00:16:57,860 'in an age when there were gloves and hats for every occasion. 265 00:16:57,860 --> 00:17:01,820 'So I delved into the back issues of The Lady magazine 266 00:17:01,820 --> 00:17:05,380 'with the help of our resident archivist, Wendy Wilson.' 267 00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:09,180 This would've been the first reference to 268 00:17:09,180 --> 00:17:13,900 trend or fashion or what the aristocracy were wearing. 269 00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:20,180 So what does it tell us about what a lady was supposed to be like 270 00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:22,460 in the 19th century? 271 00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:25,300 I think it shows us, in these ads here, 272 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:29,420 well-presented, somewhat over-the-top hats, 273 00:17:29,420 --> 00:17:33,740 millinery was clearly very important. Big. 274 00:17:33,740 --> 00:17:36,380 As was corsetry and... 275 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:39,060 So those are the original Spanx, really. Do you see? 276 00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:41,140 The speciality corset. Absolutely. 277 00:17:41,140 --> 00:17:44,060 Gloves, hosiery, corsets, hats. 278 00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:47,420 And hair. Hair pieces and hair tongs? Yes. 279 00:17:47,420 --> 00:17:53,220 To curl. The maintenance that goes into hair is genuinely overwhelming. 280 00:17:53,220 --> 00:17:55,260 Was then. Still is. 281 00:17:56,420 --> 00:18:00,220 High-class mourning! THEY LAUGH 282 00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:03,380 I think there were huge constraints 283 00:18:03,380 --> 00:18:06,460 of the way a woman had to present herself 284 00:18:06,460 --> 00:18:09,140 to the public, to society. 285 00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:12,780 Women's appearance was very restricted. 286 00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:15,860 Literally restricted by these whalebone corsets. Yes. 287 00:18:15,860 --> 00:18:18,060 Look at this. 288 00:18:18,060 --> 00:18:21,780 'As these endless ads for stays and corsets reveal, 289 00:18:21,780 --> 00:18:24,580 'being a lady meant sacrificing your freedom of movement 290 00:18:24,580 --> 00:18:28,780 'on the uncomfortable altar of sartorial correctitude. 291 00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:34,540 'Even women riders were hobbled by the most rigid dress codes 292 00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:39,940 'and there was only one way for a true lady to ride - side-saddle. 293 00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:48,140 'I assumed that the Queen was one of the last practitioners 294 00:18:48,140 --> 00:18:52,420 'of this most ladylike skill, till I heard about the Flying Foxes, 295 00:18:52,420 --> 00:18:55,460 'a group of women who are seeking to revive the technique, 296 00:18:55,460 --> 00:18:58,380 'even dressing in period costume. 297 00:18:58,380 --> 00:19:02,940 'Rider Sian Lowes showed me her moves while Becca Holland told me more.' 298 00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:05,980 She's actually riding my horse, Henry, this afternoon. 299 00:19:05,980 --> 00:19:09,420 He's 14 years old now, a very good side-saddle horse, 300 00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:11,500 very experienced. 301 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:14,220 He's very comfortable, which is important for a horse, 302 00:19:14,220 --> 00:19:16,420 and he's got a very good temperament, as well, 303 00:19:16,420 --> 00:19:19,420 he puts up with us and all our skirts and hats and things. 304 00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:22,340 And does she hunt side-saddle, Sian? Yeah, absolutely. 305 00:19:22,340 --> 00:19:26,260 We all can be seen out on the hunting field. 306 00:19:26,260 --> 00:19:29,780 Always side-saddle. I always now hunt side-saddle. 307 00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:32,620 Couldn't dream of doing it another way? No, absolutely. 308 00:19:32,620 --> 00:19:36,020 To be honest, everyone always says to me, "Gosh, you're terribly brave 309 00:19:36,020 --> 00:19:40,100 "going out hunting side-saddle." But I think it's the other way around. 310 00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:42,900 I'd much rather be side-saddle. Is it safer? Much. 311 00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:46,180 Why it is safer? Cos you fall off one end? 312 00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:49,740 You're far less likely to fall off side-saddle than you are astride. 313 00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:53,900 There's very little chance of coming off a side-saddle on a good horse. 314 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:57,700 Whereas astride, there are lots of emergency exits. I was always coming off. 315 00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,700 Whereas on one of these, you're actually really quite gripped on. 316 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:08,220 'The very first side-saddle was designed for Princess Anne of Bohemia in 1382 317 00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:12,140 'and was partly intended to safeguard the royal virginity. 318 00:20:12,140 --> 00:20:16,780 'Riding side-saddle soon became associated with proper aristocratic behaviour. 319 00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:21,260 'And women who continued to ride astride a horse 320 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:23,540 'were the subject of bawdy comment. 321 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:28,740 "Pray, sir, is this to way to Stretchet?" one cartoon asked. 322 00:20:28,740 --> 00:20:32,020 "Shiver my topsails, my lass, if I know a better way." 323 00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:40,340 There was no question of a lady riding with a leg on each side, 324 00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:42,500 certainly in the Victorian period. 325 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:45,060 For a start, it was about comfort. 326 00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:48,180 Women didn't wear any undergarments at all. 327 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:52,820 Certainly in Ancient Rome and Greece, women didn't wear knickers. Went commando. 328 00:20:52,820 --> 00:20:57,660 And if you're sitting on a horse astride with bare legs, 329 00:20:57,660 --> 00:20:59,900 it would actually be really uncomfortable. 330 00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:02,700 When we ride today, we wear long leather boots 331 00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:07,140 and specially-padded trousers. This is a total eye-opener! 332 00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:09,820 But if you're riding a horse with no knickers on, 333 00:21:09,820 --> 00:21:14,580 basically, sitting with a leg on each side would be quite uncomfortable. Chaffing. Yeah. 334 00:21:14,580 --> 00:21:16,900 And also, it's a modesty thing. 335 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:20,380 If you can imagine trying to get on a horse with a big, long skirt and no knickers, 336 00:21:20,380 --> 00:21:23,340 and trying to get your leg over. Or a short skirt and no knickers. 337 00:21:23,340 --> 00:21:25,980 Well, if that's what you like doing, absolutely. 338 00:21:25,980 --> 00:21:28,620 Let's say a toga. Yeah, completely. 339 00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:32,980 There's a very good chance of you exposing yourself to all and sundry. 340 00:21:32,980 --> 00:21:37,540 So I've explained a little bit about the history, Rachel, 341 00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:42,580 but what I would really like to know from you is, how do you fancy having a go? 342 00:21:42,580 --> 00:21:45,380 Yeah, I'm up for it. Are you wearing knickers? 343 00:21:45,380 --> 00:21:47,620 THEY LAUGH Let's go. 344 00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:50,500 'Of course, a true lady wouldn't ever be asked that question. 345 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:56,620 'But never mind. Time to go the whole side-saddle hog and get into costume.' 346 00:21:56,620 --> 00:22:00,060 Riding wear, certainly for a side-saddle lady, 347 00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:05,420 is actually very reminiscent of what men wore in the 18th century. 348 00:22:05,420 --> 00:22:07,860 And that's actually quite a theme. 349 00:22:07,860 --> 00:22:12,540 A lot of historical riding clothing comes from male fashion. 350 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:15,580 And it's really interesting. 351 00:22:15,580 --> 00:22:20,860 Certainly when women were quite often wearing very soft, feminine clothes, 352 00:22:20,860 --> 00:22:26,100 when they rode... Domestically. ..they weren't soft or feminine at all in any way. 353 00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:29,420 And they actually adopted very masculine styles. 354 00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:34,140 So, now we're going to get your jacket on. 355 00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:39,020 And we shall do you up. It's quite hot, isn't it? 356 00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:43,100 Yes. You will glow a little wearing this, I'm afraid. 357 00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:46,020 A lady only gently glows. Yes, absolutely. 358 00:22:46,020 --> 00:22:49,660 And then, last but not least, we've got your top hat. 359 00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:53,900 And, of course, you've got your veil, as well. 360 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:57,660 These originally started off being worn for very practical reasons. 361 00:22:57,660 --> 00:23:00,700 When ladies were riding along the road, they would wear a veil 362 00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:03,300 to protect their skin from the sun 363 00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:05,940 and stop the dirt getting on their faces, as well. 364 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:08,580 But nowadays, the veil has changed slightly 365 00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:12,500 and it's just become a very traditional, formal thing for a woman to wear. 366 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:17,260 Do you wear this? Yeah, absolutely. If I was hunting for a day, I'd wear a veil all day. Why? 367 00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:20,300 Just because you're not correctly dressed without one. 368 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:23,340 It's just so weird. I feel like something out of Spider-Man. 369 00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:26,060 SHE LAUGHS Well, you look incredibly elegant. 370 00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:29,540 But you are definitely missing just one more thing at the moment. 371 00:23:29,540 --> 00:23:33,780 A horse. Yeah, absolutely. We need to go and get you on a horse. 372 00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:36,820 One, two, three, up. 373 00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:39,420 Up. Up you go. Push, push. 374 00:23:39,420 --> 00:23:42,140 That's it. Sit on the saddle with your legs over. That's it. 375 00:23:42,140 --> 00:23:45,700 Perfect. Seamless. Then... Where does that go? 376 00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:48,980 Put that leg over the top, like that, bring that leg into there. 377 00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:54,340 And that is it. That's it! And then arrange your skirts. 378 00:23:54,340 --> 00:23:56,380 Bob's your uncle! 379 00:23:56,380 --> 00:23:59,460 Well, on the left-hand side of the saddle, 380 00:23:59,460 --> 00:24:03,460 there are two pommels, like so, 381 00:24:03,460 --> 00:24:06,660 and your right leg crooks over the top one 382 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:11,420 and the left one tucks in underneath this one, 383 00:24:11,420 --> 00:24:16,620 which is the leaping head, and that's what holds you in your saddle when you're jumping. 384 00:24:16,620 --> 00:24:20,300 So how does it feel, Rachel? Very comfortable. 385 00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:25,060 Surprisingly comfortable. And do you grip the pommel between your knees? 386 00:24:25,060 --> 00:24:27,780 Basically, squeeze your legs together 387 00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:31,660 and you'll be very, very nicely gripped on. Come on. 388 00:24:31,660 --> 00:24:35,460 This is very Downton. It's very Lady Mary, this. 389 00:24:35,460 --> 00:24:37,220 Isn't it? 390 00:24:38,500 --> 00:24:40,940 'I couldn't help feeling rather queenly 391 00:24:40,940 --> 00:24:43,500 'while perching on top of Henry. 392 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:46,340 'I could see why Becca and Sian were fascinated by the dress 393 00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:49,380 'and customs of a golden age of riding. 394 00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:52,340 'But I didn't quite believe you could divorce it 395 00:24:52,340 --> 00:24:55,780 'from all its connotations of female subjugation.' 396 00:24:57,860 --> 00:25:01,700 I'm sure the weather will hold and you'll be able to return without delay. Goodbye. 397 00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:06,260 Bye-bye, Jane! Goodbye, Jane! 398 00:25:06,260 --> 00:25:08,700 'So much of what it meant to be a lady 399 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:11,900 'seemed to be wrapped up in notions of control and restraint, 400 00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:14,940 'with a dollop of sexual prudery. 401 00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:18,860 'If a woman straddling a horse was regarded as obscene, 402 00:25:18,860 --> 00:25:22,980 'imagine the utter horror a device like this caused.' 403 00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:27,060 At a time when women were discouraged 404 00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:30,540 even from sitting on see-saws, a contraption like this 405 00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:33,380 would've been regarded by right-minded folk with horror. 406 00:25:33,380 --> 00:25:36,500 The combination of saddle and friction 407 00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:39,700 was fraught with depraved possibility. 408 00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:42,900 Indeed, one French expert went so far to claim 409 00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:45,060 that women shouldn't bicycle at all 410 00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:49,420 because doing so would ruin their feminine organs... 411 00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:52,420 Oh! ..of matrimonial necessity. 412 00:25:54,060 --> 00:25:56,620 SHE LAUGHS AND RINGS BELL 413 00:25:58,060 --> 00:26:02,500 # Up to my house I'll show you what I mean 414 00:26:03,660 --> 00:26:08,180 # Well, I just got wise and built me a loving machine... # 415 00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:12,940 To conceal the fact that women were riding astride, 416 00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:15,420 they came up with something called a cherry screen. 417 00:26:15,420 --> 00:26:19,900 And even saddles were perforated to relieve so-called harmful pressure 418 00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,180 on female undercarriage. 419 00:26:22,180 --> 00:26:25,980 # Well, I headed to the tip and built me a loving machine... # 420 00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:30,420 'A society that considered the bike a threat to a lady's modesty 421 00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:34,340 'was not one that encouraged physical activity among women. 422 00:26:36,980 --> 00:26:40,620 'But in the unlikely setting of Dartford in Kent, 423 00:26:40,620 --> 00:26:43,060 'one lady set out to challenge this. 424 00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:47,500 'Her name was Madame Martina Osterberg 425 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,780 'and she was a Swedish gym instructor with radical ideas 426 00:26:50,780 --> 00:26:54,220 'about liberating ladies from a strict dress code. 427 00:26:54,220 --> 00:26:56,300 'We're talking gym slips, 428 00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:59,500 'as historian Jackie Farr revealed.' 429 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:03,660 She had grown up in quite a liberal era in Sweden 430 00:27:03,660 --> 00:27:06,380 and had travelled extensively in Europe 431 00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:08,540 and then trained in Swedish gymnastics 432 00:27:08,540 --> 00:27:11,340 before taking an appointment with the London School Board. 433 00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:15,500 The London School Board were trying to introduce Swedish gymnastics to schools 434 00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:19,700 because they were concerned about the health and physicality of children in schools. 435 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:22,020 So before we had Madame Osterberg, 436 00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:25,700 what was the tradition of girls taking physical exercise, 437 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:28,860 when they were deemed to swoon if they even picked up a saucer? 438 00:27:28,860 --> 00:27:33,380 There were no requirements for girls to take part in PE in schools at all till 1873. 439 00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:36,740 So these were very radical, unconventional images. 440 00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:41,660 Yes. So this is at a time when women wouldn't be showing an ankle. Mm. 441 00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:47,860 She and others found this attire quite restricting 442 00:27:47,860 --> 00:27:50,740 in terms of playing games and taking part in gymnastics. 443 00:27:50,740 --> 00:27:54,860 And it was a student, Mary Tate, who designed what we know as the gym slip, 444 00:27:54,860 --> 00:27:57,820 which is in all these photos here. What, a student here in the college 445 00:27:57,820 --> 00:28:00,980 designed the gym slip? Yeah. 446 00:28:00,980 --> 00:28:03,900 Which is adopted for schools all over the world. 447 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:07,500 It's the emblem of St Trinian's. Yeah. It's everything. 448 00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:11,540 But in its day, it must have been dramatically radical. 449 00:28:11,540 --> 00:28:13,980 Yeah, radical and almost shocking. Yeah. 450 00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:16,860 And, I mean, there's another fantastic example, 451 00:28:16,860 --> 00:28:20,540 although it was after her death, she died in 1915, 452 00:28:20,540 --> 00:28:25,380 in 1918, George V visited here for a demonstration event with Mary 453 00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:30,780 and he was delighted to watch the girls do this. Probably never seen anything so racy. 454 00:28:30,780 --> 00:28:33,500 Yes. However, she was fairly shocked 455 00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:36,260 to watch handstands in the gym slips. 456 00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:40,980 So this is a moment when we saw female sartorial convention 457 00:28:40,980 --> 00:28:43,100 just breaking apart. 458 00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:45,660 Because you have the Queen in her long habit 459 00:28:45,660 --> 00:28:49,420 and these other women, who are in the uniform 460 00:28:49,420 --> 00:28:53,100 of what's become the uniform of school girls all over the world. 461 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:56,540 And a significant profession. Yes, it's quite a pivotal moment 462 00:28:56,540 --> 00:28:59,060 this photograph represents, I should think. 463 00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:04,100 So what do we now owe to Madame Osterberg? 464 00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:06,340 OK, well, her legacy, really, 465 00:29:06,340 --> 00:29:10,820 the one that you'd recognise, is netball. 466 00:29:10,820 --> 00:29:16,020 This is a very early image of a game of netball. 467 00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:19,100 A Dr Toll came across from the States 468 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:21,700 to introduce basketball to the students, 469 00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:25,180 and when he left, he didn't leave any written rules. 470 00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:27,420 And so over a period of time, 471 00:29:27,420 --> 00:29:31,900 the girls had to recreate and amend and adapt their rules as the college grew. 472 00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:35,220 So we know that this is an image of very early netball. 473 00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:44,340 'Innovations like netball and the gym slip 474 00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:47,740 'helped free women's bodies from the restrictive uniform 475 00:29:47,740 --> 00:29:50,100 'that had been the lady's lot. 476 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:52,860 'But liberating their minds from stifling convention 477 00:29:52,860 --> 00:29:55,980 'and intellectual prejudice was another matter.' 478 00:29:57,060 --> 00:29:59,700 "Generally speaking, it is injudicious for ladies 479 00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:01,780 "to attempt arguing with gentlemen 480 00:30:01,780 --> 00:30:04,740 "on political or financial topics. 481 00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:08,420 "All the information that a woman can possibly acquire 482 00:30:08,420 --> 00:30:10,500 "or remember on these subjects 483 00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:13,860 "is so small in comparison with the knowledge of men 484 00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:16,460 "that the discussion will not elevate them 485 00:30:16,460 --> 00:30:18,980 "in the opinion of masculine minds." 486 00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:26,100 'The etiquette guides of the 19th century 487 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:29,140 'would lead you to believe that a lady was someone 488 00:30:29,140 --> 00:30:32,100 'whose intellectual horizons stretched no further 489 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:35,940 'than needlework and the occasional piano forte recital. 490 00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:41,380 'But all that would change as education for ladies began to improve 491 00:30:41,380 --> 00:30:44,380 'in the second half of the 19th century.' 492 00:30:45,940 --> 00:30:49,420 So I'm now driving to Cheltenham in Gloucestershire 493 00:30:49,420 --> 00:30:54,020 because this is the home of Cheltenham Ladies' College, 494 00:30:54,020 --> 00:30:57,780 which is the alma mater of my own grandmother. 495 00:30:57,780 --> 00:31:02,660 My father would've liked me to have gone to Cheltenham Ladies' College 496 00:31:02,660 --> 00:31:06,020 just as he would've liked me to have become a lady. 497 00:31:06,020 --> 00:31:09,020 But unfortunately, I had other plans 498 00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:11,820 and refused even to look round this school, 499 00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:15,220 so this is the first time I'm ever going to see the place 500 00:31:15,220 --> 00:31:17,540 which educated my own grandmother. 501 00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:20,700 She went on to Oxford, so it clearly did its job very well. 502 00:31:29,820 --> 00:31:33,900 # I went to school in Cheltenham 503 00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:38,740 # At a fashionable ladies' college 504 00:31:38,740 --> 00:31:42,700 # Where I learnt what's what and acquired a lot 505 00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:47,540 # Of exceedingly practical knowledge 506 00:31:51,940 --> 00:31:56,140 # I loved my school in Cheltenham 507 00:31:56,140 --> 00:32:00,980 # With a chestnut tree so shady 508 00:32:00,980 --> 00:32:05,420 # And I now embrace all the charm and grace 509 00:32:05,420 --> 00:32:09,380 # Of a typical English lady... # 510 00:32:09,380 --> 00:32:13,140 We have a desk here that would've been used in the 1920s. 511 00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:15,420 Should I... Yes, do sit. 512 00:32:15,420 --> 00:32:19,020 'My grandmother was a Cheltenham lady in the 1920s 513 00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:21,660 'and archivist Rachel Roberts helped me search for her 514 00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:23,900 'in the school records.' 515 00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:27,300 So she's a Williams, 516 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:30,900 Yvonne Eileen Irene, 517 00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:33,620 and there's her sister, Denise Madeline. Yes. 518 00:32:33,620 --> 00:32:36,260 One, two, what does that mean? That means they're siblings. 519 00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:41,140 So she was known as Williams One and she was known as Williams Two? Yes. 520 00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:44,620 So my granny was 13 years 4 months 521 00:32:44,620 --> 00:32:48,580 and she was in class 21B. Yes. 522 00:32:48,580 --> 00:32:52,540 'Female members of my own family reaped the benefits of the mission 523 00:32:52,540 --> 00:32:54,900 'to improve the education of young ladies 524 00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:57,860 'that began here in 1853.' 525 00:32:57,860 --> 00:33:00,060 In the 1850s, 526 00:33:00,060 --> 00:33:03,420 generally it was a very limited education for girls 527 00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:05,980 and tended to focus on accomplishments 528 00:33:05,980 --> 00:33:09,020 such as music, dancing and the arts. 529 00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:11,180 And then why did that change 530 00:33:11,180 --> 00:33:14,420 and why was Cheltenham founded? 531 00:33:14,420 --> 00:33:17,380 Cheltenham Ladies' College was founded 532 00:33:17,380 --> 00:33:21,820 so that the girls could have exactly the same education as boys, 533 00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:24,780 and largely through the efforts of Dorothea Beale, 534 00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:27,540 the second principal at the college, 535 00:33:27,540 --> 00:33:34,580 she developed other lessons and introduced maths and science into the curriculum. 536 00:33:34,580 --> 00:33:38,260 'Beale's presence and her aims are still alive today in the college, 537 00:33:38,260 --> 00:33:41,820 'with her belongings kept as relics in the school museum. 538 00:33:41,820 --> 00:33:44,660 'Although she had little formal education herself, 539 00:33:44,660 --> 00:33:49,940 'she was determined that her ladies would learn more than a few nebulous accomplishments. 540 00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:53,460 'Beale was passionate about unfeminine subjects like maths, 541 00:33:53,460 --> 00:33:56,660 'even if they had to be taught by stealth.' 542 00:33:56,660 --> 00:34:00,420 Initially, there was a fair amount of opposition to the introduction 543 00:34:00,420 --> 00:34:03,300 of maths and science into the curriculum. 544 00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:09,020 Dorothea Beale got round this by calling science teaching Physical Geography 545 00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:12,780 because, she said, not many boys' schools taught geography at that date, 546 00:34:12,780 --> 00:34:15,460 and so few parents could object. 547 00:34:15,460 --> 00:34:18,460 There was also a good deal of biology teaching 548 00:34:18,460 --> 00:34:22,140 which took place under the guise of botany, as well. Oh, really? 549 00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:25,580 Did fathers, I assume, or was it also mothers, 550 00:34:25,580 --> 00:34:29,420 think that ladies should be protected from knowing too much? 551 00:34:29,420 --> 00:34:33,820 Yes. And also, it was felt that the rigours of an academic education 552 00:34:33,820 --> 00:34:36,380 would prove too much for the girl's physique 553 00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:39,260 and she was too delicate to cope with it. 554 00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:42,020 And how far did she want to challenge the orthodoxy 555 00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:46,700 that girls should just sit around until marriage sewing samplers? 556 00:34:46,700 --> 00:34:51,140 She wanted them to be able, eventually, to earn their own living 557 00:34:51,140 --> 00:34:53,220 with dignity, as she saw it. 558 00:34:53,220 --> 00:34:57,980 She went on to found St Hilda's College in Oxford 559 00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:03,260 so that her girls could automatically go and take degree courses. 560 00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:06,020 'A glance at the crowded honours board 561 00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:10,100 'reveals the revolution Dorothea Beale and her successors set in motion, 562 00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:13,540 'helping to establish the graduates of Cheltenham, at least, 563 00:35:13,540 --> 00:35:16,660 'as ladies of scholarship.' 564 00:35:16,660 --> 00:35:20,620 And do you call girls who've been here "old girls" or "old ladies"? 565 00:35:20,620 --> 00:35:23,860 We call them guild members. 566 00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:26,220 You get round it! Yes! 567 00:35:26,220 --> 00:35:30,180 # Give three cheers for Cheltenham 568 00:35:30,180 --> 00:35:35,300 # Where the chestnut trees are shady 569 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:39,700 # When I learnt of vice and all things nice 570 00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:45,420 # Like a typical English lady... # 571 00:35:56,780 --> 00:35:59,500 'After learning more about Dorothea Beale, 572 00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:03,580 'I felt I'd done a disservice to the guild members of Cheltenham.' 573 00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:07,980 I simply couldn't imagine myself in an institution 574 00:36:07,980 --> 00:36:11,420 that called itself Cheltenham Ladies' College, 575 00:36:11,420 --> 00:36:15,740 so I was clearly prejudiced against it simply because of its name, 576 00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:21,620 much as people are prejudiced against The Lady magazine because it's called The Lady. 577 00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:24,420 So, you know, this is a double-edged sword here. 578 00:36:24,420 --> 00:36:29,580 The Lady will attract and repel people in equal measure. 579 00:36:29,580 --> 00:36:32,300 The word in itself will, anyway. 580 00:36:33,340 --> 00:36:36,620 'There was one ladylike tradition in particular 581 00:36:36,620 --> 00:36:39,900 'that had begun to seem hideously out of sync with the times 582 00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:42,300 'by the late 1950s. 583 00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,780 'The presentation of a debutante before the Queen.' 584 00:36:53,980 --> 00:36:58,140 "In fashionable society, a girl has no recognised position 585 00:36:58,140 --> 00:37:00,460 "until she has been presented at court, 586 00:37:00,460 --> 00:37:04,260 "which is equivalent to saying that so soon as she has arrived at an age 587 00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:06,420 "when the schoolroom may be quitted 588 00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:09,060 "and a more responsible position assumed in life, 589 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:14,700 "a girl's first duty is to pay her respects to her queen." 590 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:17,660 'For 200 years, the daughters of the upper class 591 00:37:17,660 --> 00:37:21,140 'were presented before the Queen in a ceremony that marked 592 00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:24,700 'their coming of age and the beginning of the social season.' 593 00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:27,140 The debutante was a girl 594 00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:30,540 who was generally a member of a fairly distinguished family 595 00:37:30,540 --> 00:37:32,580 who was presented at court. 596 00:37:32,580 --> 00:37:34,860 It was a mark of perfection. 597 00:37:34,860 --> 00:37:39,060 She had the mark that she was the girl 598 00:37:39,060 --> 00:37:43,300 worthy of being produced in the presence of the Queen. 599 00:37:49,420 --> 00:37:53,660 'I wanted to know more about this courtly ritual of ladyhood 600 00:37:53,660 --> 00:37:57,420 'so I travelled to Yorkshire to meet writer Fiona MacCarthy, 601 00:37:57,420 --> 00:38:01,180 'one of the last debutantes to be presented before the Queen 602 00:38:01,180 --> 00:38:03,500 'in 1958.' 603 00:38:04,780 --> 00:38:08,340 This is presentation week of '58? 604 00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:10,620 It was presentation week, 605 00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:15,300 cos there were a record number of applicants to be presented, 606 00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:19,460 because everyone knew that it was the last presentation. 607 00:38:19,460 --> 00:38:23,820 So really, below-age girls were being presented just to get them in 608 00:38:23,820 --> 00:38:26,140 before the presentations finished. 609 00:38:26,140 --> 00:38:30,660 So we were in these incredibly flimsy wild silk dresses 610 00:38:30,660 --> 00:38:35,020 and little hats and long white gloves, 611 00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:39,700 and it was a bit of an ordeal, of course, but everyone was keyed up with excitement about it. 612 00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,220 Except you. Except for me. 613 00:38:42,220 --> 00:38:44,700 I was a little cynical already. 614 00:38:46,220 --> 00:38:48,980 'As a girl from an aristocratic family, 615 00:38:48,980 --> 00:38:51,420 'Fiona MacCarthy had grown up with the knowledge 616 00:38:51,420 --> 00:38:55,340 'that her childhood would climax in a curtsey to the Queen 617 00:38:55,340 --> 00:38:58,900 'and a heady social world of balls known as the season.' 618 00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:02,700 I think in those days, in the late 1950s, 619 00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:06,940 girls of 17 or 18 weren't really expected to have opinions. 620 00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:10,820 There was never any question that I wasn't going to do the season. 621 00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:13,980 It was somehow built into my upbringing. 622 00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:20,140 I had shown signs of rebellion in that I'd actually got myself a place at Oxford, 623 00:39:20,140 --> 00:39:23,980 and this was not an advantage when I was doing the season, 624 00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:28,860 because I was thought of as rather a little bit peculiar, frightfully brainy, 625 00:39:28,860 --> 00:39:33,380 and frightfully brainy was actually a pretty rude term in those circles. 626 00:39:35,820 --> 00:39:40,300 Looking back on it, it was a very interesting period to be growing up in 627 00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:44,140 because these restrictions and these formalities 628 00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:47,940 were going to go, they were just on the edge. 629 00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:51,700 'What had begun as a ceremony designed to reinforce the bond 630 00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:54,260 'between the monarchy and the aristocratic elite 631 00:39:54,260 --> 00:39:58,340 'came to seem anachronistic in an less deferential era. 632 00:39:58,340 --> 00:40:03,260 'Even within the palace and even before the '60s started swinging in earnest, 633 00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:06,660 'there was a feeling that the debs had run their course.' 634 00:40:06,660 --> 00:40:09,820 The Duke of Edinburgh, who was an impatient young man in those days, 635 00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:14,780 said, "I really can't face another 400 debs curtseying to me," 636 00:40:14,780 --> 00:40:19,220 so I think he was an influence in the thing going. 637 00:40:19,220 --> 00:40:23,820 And there was also feeling that maybe a few people 638 00:40:23,820 --> 00:40:27,540 were just being filtered in that shouldn't have been there. 639 00:40:27,540 --> 00:40:29,660 Princess Margaret, "Every tart in London." 640 00:40:29,660 --> 00:40:34,060 Yes, Princess Margaret was complaining every tart in London was getting in. 641 00:40:34,060 --> 00:40:39,500 So there were lots of feelings coming together 642 00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:44,100 to bring about the end of this peculiar ritual 643 00:40:44,100 --> 00:40:46,140 which had gone on for 200 years. 644 00:40:48,660 --> 00:40:52,500 Ladies were becoming a little bit ridiculous by that time. 645 00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:56,420 There'd been this rather satiric play, 646 00:40:56,420 --> 00:41:00,860 The Reluctant Debutante, William Douglas-Home. 647 00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:05,860 It had made people laugh at the whole debutante scene. 648 00:41:05,860 --> 00:41:08,580 Satire was beginning to come in. 649 00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:14,220 Ladies were beginning to seem, you know, just verging on the ridiculous. 650 00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:16,380 And then as the years went by, 651 00:41:16,380 --> 00:41:19,740 by the early '60s, they were totally beyond the pale. 652 00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:22,220 Nobody wanted to be a lady 653 00:41:22,220 --> 00:41:24,620 because they just seemed so silly. 654 00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:30,340 'There was no place for white gloves and tiaras 655 00:41:30,340 --> 00:41:32,780 'in a world that was in the active throws 656 00:41:32,780 --> 00:41:35,820 'of social change and sexual revolution.' 657 00:41:37,020 --> 00:41:40,900 It all changed rather overnight. 658 00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:45,660 It changed, I suppose, around 1960, 1961, 659 00:41:45,660 --> 00:41:49,340 and you didn't want to be seen dead looking like your mother any more 660 00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:51,660 and you didn't want to be ladylike. 661 00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:54,820 People's clothes had changed. 662 00:41:54,820 --> 00:41:59,180 And the sort of social differences weren't so obvious any more. 663 00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:04,340 'In an era when hemlines were rising 664 00:42:04,340 --> 00:42:08,300 'and women were challenging stereotypes and demanding equality, 665 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:13,380 'the traditional lady suddenly felt like an unfashionable and unwanted throwback. 666 00:42:14,620 --> 00:42:17,660 'But still, she never vanished completely. 667 00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:21,780 'Subsequent efforts to update the lady met with mixed results. 668 00:42:21,780 --> 00:42:25,580 'In the '80s, wannabe debutantes were presented 669 00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:29,140 'not in Buckingham Palace but in a trendy London nightclub.' 670 00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:34,700 The beautiful people, the rich, the famous and the influential, arrive at Wedgies. 671 00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:38,180 I think what I might do at this stage, if it is possible, 672 00:42:38,180 --> 00:42:41,420 is to get each of the debs, if they would, 673 00:42:41,420 --> 00:42:44,420 to hold their plate up when I call out their name 674 00:42:44,420 --> 00:42:46,900 and eat a mouthful of their delicious caviar. 675 00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:49,140 Right? Would you mind that? 676 00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:53,020 CHEERING Right. What a lovely eater. 677 00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:57,180 'And now, after the vulgar excesses of the greed-is-good '80s, 678 00:42:57,180 --> 00:43:00,500 'the debutante is making a proper comeback.' 679 00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:02,260 # Lady 680 00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:08,660 # For so many years I thought I'd never find you 681 00:43:10,460 --> 00:43:13,260 # You have come into my life 682 00:43:13,260 --> 00:43:15,460 # And 683 00:43:15,460 --> 00:43:18,260 # Made me whole... # 684 00:43:20,580 --> 00:43:24,100 'In recent years, the debs ball has been resurrected 685 00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:27,740 'along the old traditional lines for a global market, 686 00:43:27,740 --> 00:43:32,940 'with showpiece events in London, Paris, Shanghai and Dubai.' 687 00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:35,940 # Let me hear you whisper softly 688 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,300 # In my ear... # 689 00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:43,140 'Young ladies are once again being decked out in ball gowns 690 00:43:43,140 --> 00:43:46,540 'and briefed in the rules of royal etiquette.' 691 00:43:46,540 --> 00:43:51,500 You will obviously curtsey to anyone who is a prince or princess. 692 00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:56,380 Princess Susan al Said of Oman has also been invited. 693 00:43:56,380 --> 00:44:00,740 She is the wife of the brother of the Sultan of Oman. 694 00:44:00,740 --> 00:44:04,900 She is a princess. You will curtsey in the way that you have curtseyed 695 00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:07,980 to Princess Katarina of Yugoslavia 696 00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:11,340 and the other royals you have met during your year. 697 00:44:11,340 --> 00:44:13,540 So it's very, very important... 698 00:44:13,540 --> 00:44:16,900 'I was intrigued to know what this old-fashioned and ornate ritual 699 00:44:16,900 --> 00:44:21,380 'had to offer young women in the dark economic times of today. 700 00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:26,660 'So I went to meet the organiser of the self-styled London Season, Jennie Hallam-Peel.' 701 00:44:26,660 --> 00:44:29,300 Why would a girl who'd been through the London Season 702 00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:32,420 be any more ladylike than one who hasn't? 703 00:44:32,420 --> 00:44:34,820 Because I think it's a grooming process. 704 00:44:34,820 --> 00:44:37,860 I know I found that when I was a deb. 705 00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:40,660 Because the average 17-year-old 706 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:43,300 is really quite scruffy 707 00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:49,180 and is really very much involved in herself. 708 00:44:49,180 --> 00:44:52,860 She hasn't been trained to look outside herself, 709 00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:57,020 to be aware of other people in a social situation. 710 00:44:57,020 --> 00:45:00,780 It's totally different with their friends. They can be exactly what they want to be, 711 00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:04,260 totally non-communicative with parents, parents' friends, 712 00:45:04,260 --> 00:45:08,780 but after a year of being a deb, you know how to... 713 00:45:08,780 --> 00:45:11,740 you know how to interact with people of all age groups 714 00:45:11,740 --> 00:45:14,620 because you're forced into those kinds of situations 715 00:45:14,620 --> 00:45:16,900 and you suddenly look outside yourself 716 00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:21,060 and realise that you need to make other people feel comfortable, 717 00:45:21,060 --> 00:45:23,940 not be wrapped up in your own little world. 718 00:45:23,940 --> 00:45:26,500 So, in a way, it's a growing up process. 719 00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:28,660 'That so-called grooming process 720 00:45:28,660 --> 00:45:31,500 'involves a year of etiquette classes, 721 00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:33,900 'social events and charity fundraising 722 00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:37,300 'for the 40 girls selected. By the end of it all, 723 00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:42,220 'they become ambassadors of a unique brand, the English lady.' 724 00:45:42,220 --> 00:45:44,220 I think I would consider us all as ladies. 725 00:45:44,220 --> 00:45:49,060 We all hold ourselves in the correct manner, we act correctly. 726 00:45:49,060 --> 00:45:53,740 There's nothing to suggest that we're not. THEY LAUGH 727 00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:56,460 We try to. Yes, we try. 728 00:45:56,460 --> 00:45:58,900 I think it's kind of a work in progress 729 00:45:58,900 --> 00:46:01,900 and hopefully doing the season and doing the etiquette lessons 730 00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:04,100 for when you're abroad and everything, 731 00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:08,460 they help you kind of reach that goal in the end. 732 00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:13,700 So do you find there's growing appetite internationally for the English lady product? 733 00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:19,100 I think whenever we go abroad, everyone wants to see total Englishness. 734 00:46:19,100 --> 00:46:24,660 So that's exactly what we give them, because by the end of the year, that's exactly what they are. 735 00:46:24,660 --> 00:46:27,100 Why do you think that makes them particularly English, 736 00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:31,180 the fact that they have manners? I think we have a code of behaviour 737 00:46:31,180 --> 00:46:36,300 which everyone abroad considers to be the height of good manners. 738 00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:39,820 And lots of other countries don't have that. 739 00:46:39,820 --> 00:46:42,140 But I think it might be courteous 740 00:46:42,140 --> 00:46:48,380 if you are being specifically introduced to a sheik from one of the Emirates or his wife 741 00:46:48,380 --> 00:46:51,260 that you do actually cover your shoulders. 742 00:46:52,260 --> 00:46:55,580 These emerging wealthy economies 743 00:46:55,580 --> 00:46:57,740 and the emergence of the super-rich class, 744 00:46:57,740 --> 00:47:00,700 what they want above all for their own daughters 745 00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:03,340 is for them to be young English ladies. 746 00:47:03,340 --> 00:47:08,460 Of course. So they are giving something, 747 00:47:08,460 --> 00:47:11,820 both sides are giving something. It's really interesting. 748 00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:15,340 What do you think they are giving? What do you think we're giving them? 749 00:47:15,340 --> 00:47:17,380 I think we're giving... 750 00:47:17,380 --> 00:47:20,940 They have everything financially 751 00:47:20,940 --> 00:47:24,860 but they don't have that indefinable quality 752 00:47:24,860 --> 00:47:29,660 which they term, not my term, they term as class. 753 00:47:29,660 --> 00:47:31,820 And we have it in spades 754 00:47:31,820 --> 00:47:34,900 and that is what is attractive to them. 755 00:47:34,900 --> 00:47:38,620 And we can export it now, via our... We can export it. ..young English ladies. 756 00:47:38,620 --> 00:47:44,300 And at the same time, we can raise millions for Children In Need. 757 00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:47,060 What can possibly be wrong with that? It's win-win. 758 00:47:47,060 --> 00:47:49,380 THEY LAUGH 759 00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:53,260 'There was something a bit disconcerting about this idea of 760 00:47:53,260 --> 00:47:56,580 'a glorified trade fair of perfect English ladies. 761 00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:00,300 'So I was almost relieved to discover 762 00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:03,700 'there had been the occasional lapse in etiquette.' 763 00:48:05,260 --> 00:48:08,420 Have you had any huge bloopers with any of the girls? 764 00:48:08,420 --> 00:48:11,180 Yes. Yes. SHE LAUGHS 765 00:48:11,180 --> 00:48:14,900 We had a total nightmare in Macedonia. 766 00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:18,980 We went to... We were accompanied by Princess Katarina 767 00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:25,340 and we went to her former shooting lodge, which is now a winery. 768 00:48:25,340 --> 00:48:28,380 And we were given the most magnificent lunch there 769 00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:30,780 but, of course, because it's a winery, 770 00:48:30,780 --> 00:48:35,100 they also wanted everyone to taste all their glorious wines. 771 00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:38,580 And so each girl was presented with, 772 00:48:38,580 --> 00:48:41,580 well, first of all, there was going to be a seven-course lunch, 773 00:48:41,580 --> 00:48:45,260 and there were nine glasses in front of them. 774 00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:49,740 The one thing we'd forgotten to say to them is, 775 00:48:49,740 --> 00:48:55,740 "You do not drink the whole glass when there are nine glasses you're going to taste." 776 00:48:55,740 --> 00:48:59,740 Of course, they were just knocking it back. I was glaring at them 777 00:48:59,740 --> 00:49:02,820 and, of course, they were just completely... 778 00:49:02,820 --> 00:49:05,060 knocking back every single glass. 779 00:49:05,060 --> 00:49:07,580 So at the end of the lunch, 780 00:49:07,580 --> 00:49:10,700 they were slumped over their plates. SHE LAUGHS 781 00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:13,940 We had to drag them into the coach, 782 00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:17,100 praying their parents wouldn't see it. SHE LAUGHS 783 00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:19,940 So, yes, there are some things we forget about. 784 00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:29,540 'It's a funny old world where young ladies are groomed 785 00:49:29,540 --> 00:49:33,260 'for a nostalgic recreation of the debutante's ball 786 00:49:33,260 --> 00:49:37,540 'but still get totally lashed on a coach trip to Macedonia. 787 00:49:37,540 --> 00:49:40,940 'So it's not surprising that a book's been published 788 00:49:40,940 --> 00:49:44,220 'to help the modern lady tiptoe her way through it. 789 00:49:44,220 --> 00:49:47,020 'This important tome comes, of course, 790 00:49:47,020 --> 00:49:52,020 'from that blue-blooded authority on establishment protocol, Debrett's. 791 00:50:00,060 --> 00:50:03,140 'Given my own husband's comment that I'm not a lady, 792 00:50:03,140 --> 00:50:06,100 'I was keen to find out more about etiquette for girls, 793 00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:08,700 'so I met up with editor Jo Bryant. 794 00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:12,380 'The old guides offered advice on letter-writing and where to sit in church. 795 00:50:12,380 --> 00:50:14,740 'The new one was far more contemporary.' 796 00:50:14,740 --> 00:50:18,660 "The one-night stand, ONS, is a bit like fast food. 797 00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:21,220 "Tempting but with nauseating afterthoughts." 798 00:50:21,220 --> 00:50:25,060 "The sendoff is an ideal opportunity to steal a first kiss. 799 00:50:25,060 --> 00:50:27,860 "Set this up with a silent, smiling..." 800 00:50:27,860 --> 00:50:32,260 "If you're at his, the ONS is not over until the walk of shame, 801 00:50:32,260 --> 00:50:35,100 "going home in last night's dishevelled clothes." 802 00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:37,620 "Steel yourself for the aftermath." 803 00:50:37,620 --> 00:50:42,420 'Walks of shame? One-night stands? In Debrett's?' 804 00:50:42,420 --> 00:50:45,100 I think there was an element of surprise that we'd suddenly 805 00:50:45,100 --> 00:50:48,460 jumped into the 20th century, and I think Debrett's has been known 806 00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:51,220 for peerage and baronetage and titled people 807 00:50:51,220 --> 00:50:54,220 and all of a sudden there was this book about how young women live. 808 00:50:54,220 --> 00:50:57,740 We're not telling people to go out and have one-night stands. 809 00:50:57,740 --> 00:51:00,580 It was more trying to create a guide that was actually realistic 810 00:51:00,580 --> 00:51:02,820 on how some women do choose to live. 811 00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:06,180 And if we hadn't included some of the more risque subject matters, 812 00:51:06,180 --> 00:51:09,460 it wouldn't have been moving on at the pace that we really need to. 813 00:51:09,460 --> 00:51:12,820 And was this guide inspired in any way 814 00:51:12,820 --> 00:51:15,020 by the rise of the ladette 815 00:51:15,020 --> 00:51:19,620 and girls being potty-mouthed tramps who drank too much? 816 00:51:19,620 --> 00:51:22,980 We've been asked that a lot. It wasn't really a reaction against anything, 817 00:51:22,980 --> 00:51:25,900 it was more an idea that we looked at what we felt there was a need for 818 00:51:25,900 --> 00:51:29,740 and we felt that the role of young women now was actually quite a difficult one. 819 00:51:29,740 --> 00:51:32,820 We've got old-fashioned rules and codes of conduct 820 00:51:32,820 --> 00:51:35,620 and also this huge idea of a relaxed society, 821 00:51:35,620 --> 00:51:39,540 that we can go out and drink, we can have boys as friends, 822 00:51:39,540 --> 00:51:42,940 we can live in a much more relaxed way, even in a way that our mothers couldn't. 823 00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:47,060 And society and manners and etiquette was changing so quickly, 824 00:51:47,060 --> 00:51:49,260 we thought that we should take a snapshot 825 00:51:49,260 --> 00:51:51,740 and try and replicate a young woman's life, 826 00:51:51,740 --> 00:51:54,260 absorbing all different elements on how she can live. 827 00:51:54,260 --> 00:51:57,940 Did you have any particular ladylike role models in mind? 828 00:51:57,940 --> 00:52:01,220 Or did you find that difficult in today's market? 829 00:52:01,220 --> 00:52:05,220 It was very difficult. We spent a long time deciding whether we'd have a foreword to the book, 830 00:52:05,220 --> 00:52:08,660 and we actually couldn't come up with a single person we felt encapsulated 831 00:52:08,660 --> 00:52:12,500 all the different roles and situations that we talked about inside the book. 832 00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:15,060 We also felt it would stamp it with too much of a character, 833 00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:18,540 that when people were reading it, they might think of a certain individual. 834 00:52:18,540 --> 00:52:21,940 Being a lady is a sort of faceless ideal, in that case, isn't it? 835 00:52:21,940 --> 00:52:26,380 To a degree. It's more the idea that it's equipping of self-confidence. 836 00:52:26,380 --> 00:52:28,660 It is this idea that you can go out... 837 00:52:28,660 --> 00:52:30,980 As a young woman, we have so many different roles. 838 00:52:30,980 --> 00:52:35,780 We've got careers, some girlfriends, you might be a wife, you might have children. 839 00:52:35,780 --> 00:52:38,460 And all of a sudden, we have all these different hats to wear 840 00:52:38,460 --> 00:52:41,180 and all these different scenarios and we all do so much more, 841 00:52:41,180 --> 00:52:43,940 we socialise differently, we get asked to do different things 842 00:52:43,940 --> 00:52:46,220 through work or through our social lives, 843 00:52:46,220 --> 00:52:50,140 and all of us have all these situations where we think, "What do I wear? How do I behave? 844 00:52:50,140 --> 00:52:53,180 "Is it rude to do this? Is it right to do that?" 845 00:52:53,180 --> 00:52:56,980 So the idea was just to kind of present it as an accessible way 846 00:52:56,980 --> 00:52:59,700 of decoding all these different elements of our lives. 847 00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:02,340 'The old etiquette books 848 00:53:02,340 --> 00:53:05,580 'once laid out the boundaries a lady had to respect. 849 00:53:05,580 --> 00:53:07,820 'This guide seemed to offer women 850 00:53:07,820 --> 00:53:09,900 'a way of exerting some control 851 00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:12,380 'in a world of unlimited freedom. 852 00:53:12,380 --> 00:53:15,300 'So did the idea of the lady, 853 00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:18,820 'with its connotations of decorum and restraint, 854 00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:22,380 'offer modern women an alternative code of behaviour? 855 00:53:22,380 --> 00:53:25,940 'It was an idea I put to feminist writer Bidisha.' 856 00:53:27,020 --> 00:53:30,540 So why do you think there's interest in the concept of the lady now? 857 00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:33,020 I think a lot of things have come together 858 00:53:33,020 --> 00:53:37,820 to make women ask themselves what the future of womankind 859 00:53:37,820 --> 00:53:41,380 and the future of ladyhood actually is. 860 00:53:41,380 --> 00:53:43,700 On the one hand, at the most shallow level, 861 00:53:43,700 --> 00:53:45,900 you could say, OK, it's to do with fashion, 862 00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:49,940 that we don't like the kinds of representations of us that are out there in the media, 863 00:53:49,940 --> 00:53:52,140 they seem very cheapening, very objectifying, 864 00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:54,580 there's often more flesh than cloth. 865 00:53:54,580 --> 00:53:58,980 So you turn on music videos, you look in a tits paper, 866 00:53:58,980 --> 00:54:01,460 like The Sun or The Star, and you think, 867 00:54:01,460 --> 00:54:05,140 "That's not the model of womanhood that I respond to. 868 00:54:05,140 --> 00:54:10,340 "And I'm sure lots of women and lots and lots of intelligent men who appreciate women don't, either. 869 00:54:10,340 --> 00:54:14,620 "So what's another way?" And a reaction to that is to cover up 870 00:54:14,620 --> 00:54:17,700 and then you have this movement towards looking at those... 871 00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:20,500 You know those reissued books which are like rules of style? 872 00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:23,180 Yes. Etiquettes of style? Absolutely, we've looked at them. 873 00:54:23,180 --> 00:54:28,020 They are brilliant because it's not about being this fake lady-type lady. 874 00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:31,180 I think it's about bringing a kind of formality and elegance 875 00:54:31,180 --> 00:54:34,060 back into a culture which is really quite vulgar. 876 00:54:34,060 --> 00:54:38,260 'Bidisha wasn't just advocating ladylike fashion, 877 00:54:38,260 --> 00:54:42,300 'she was proposing a wholesale reinvention of the lady.' 878 00:54:44,100 --> 00:54:49,420 I think that it's now divorced from notions of class and background, 879 00:54:49,420 --> 00:54:51,660 which is what it was weighed down with before, 880 00:54:51,660 --> 00:54:53,940 and we can do with it what we want. 881 00:54:53,940 --> 00:54:57,780 We're at a perfect time to subvert the idea of the lady. 882 00:54:57,780 --> 00:55:00,700 I think it has been very problematic in the past, 883 00:55:00,700 --> 00:55:04,540 but that if you look at things like fashion 884 00:55:04,540 --> 00:55:09,100 and new trends just in lifestyle, and also you look at culture, 885 00:55:09,100 --> 00:55:13,420 there's a great space, I think, to take back the notion of the lady 886 00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:16,860 as someone who is empowered and strong. 887 00:55:16,860 --> 00:55:20,180 So you're saying not only let's keep the word lady and the term lady, 888 00:55:20,180 --> 00:55:23,860 but let's multiply it by many millions, the number of ladies out there. 889 00:55:23,860 --> 00:55:26,380 We'd completely transform the word 890 00:55:26,380 --> 00:55:28,900 and we'd transform the definition. 891 00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:32,180 We turn it into something which is associated with 892 00:55:32,180 --> 00:55:36,100 just being a brilliant, strong, sisterly woman. 893 00:55:37,220 --> 00:55:40,260 'With now even an ardent feminist like Bidisha 894 00:55:40,260 --> 00:55:42,900 'seeking to reclaim the lady for a new age, 895 00:55:42,900 --> 00:55:46,500 'just how far had we come from that high Victorian ideal 896 00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:50,020 'with its taint of privilege and inequality?' 897 00:55:51,660 --> 00:55:55,980 A young woman without family, connections or fortune? 898 00:55:55,980 --> 00:55:58,740 Is this to be endured? It shall not be! 899 00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:04,180 'Women are no longer bound by strict codes of etiquette and behaviour. 900 00:56:07,620 --> 00:56:13,540 'We're no longer forced to conform to elaborate rules of dress and deportment.' 901 00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:16,300 A little slicker please, dear. 902 00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:20,300 'We can straddle horses and bikes with impunity. 903 00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:24,140 'So why might women still aspire to be ladies?' 904 00:56:26,460 --> 00:56:29,580 I think it was Simone de Beauvoir who said that 905 00:56:29,580 --> 00:56:32,820 you are not born a woman, you become one. 906 00:56:32,820 --> 00:56:37,540 So the idea that you have to become a lady on top of a woman 907 00:56:37,540 --> 00:56:40,820 is a whole added area of complexity and endeavour. 908 00:56:40,820 --> 00:56:45,780 'The fact that women are still prepared to take on that extra challenge 909 00:56:45,780 --> 00:56:48,820 'suggests Diana Mather might be right.' 910 00:56:48,820 --> 00:56:51,220 We now should be secure in our own genders 911 00:56:51,220 --> 00:56:53,940 not to have to behave like men to be taken seriously, 912 00:56:53,940 --> 00:56:55,940 cos we know we can do the job just as well, 913 00:56:55,940 --> 00:56:58,620 but to keep our femininity, and I think that's quite important. 914 00:56:58,620 --> 00:57:01,820 'Thanks to decades of advancement, 915 00:57:01,820 --> 00:57:04,740 'are women really so secure they can afford to revisit 916 00:57:04,740 --> 00:57:07,780 'the customs and practices of a bygone age 917 00:57:07,780 --> 00:57:11,580 'where girls curtsied to a cake and never raised their voices? 918 00:57:14,060 --> 00:57:17,980 'I think the real reason for the resurgence of the lady 919 00:57:17,980 --> 00:57:21,900 'is more likely to be that in times of economic insecurity, 920 00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:24,900 'society becomes more conservative. 921 00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:27,140 'And in a competitive job market, 922 00:57:27,140 --> 00:57:31,340 'the gloss the training lends a lady in waiting is an asset. 923 00:57:31,340 --> 00:57:34,860 'A little elegance and formality goes a long way.' 924 00:57:34,860 --> 00:57:37,460 If you're walking into a job interview, 925 00:57:37,460 --> 00:57:40,900 or even meeting the boyfriend's parents, 926 00:57:40,900 --> 00:57:43,420 or that kind of thing, it's just nice to know 927 00:57:43,420 --> 00:57:47,180 what the protocol is and what's acceptable and what isn't. 928 00:57:49,380 --> 00:57:53,700 'But in the end, I'm not sure I approve. 929 00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:58,900 'It seems strange to go backwards to white gloves and tiaras in order to go forwards. 930 00:57:58,900 --> 00:58:03,020 'But still, if a middle-class girl from Berkshire 931 00:58:03,020 --> 00:58:05,260 'can become a princess, 932 00:58:05,260 --> 00:58:09,780 'anyone with the right training can also become a lady.' 933 00:58:09,780 --> 00:58:13,260 THEY LAUGH Bye! Bye! Excellent. 934 00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:15,260 'Maybe even me.' 935 00:58:15,260 --> 00:58:18,020 # You're once 936 00:58:18,020 --> 00:58:19,980 # Twice 937 00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:25,260 # Three times a lady 938 00:58:26,860 --> 00:58:31,940 # And I love you 939 00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:36,940 # Yes, you're once 940 00:58:36,940 --> 00:58:38,780 # Twice 941 00:58:40,580 --> 00:58:43,860 # Three times a lady... #