1 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,320 Hello. Well, quite wonderfully, 2 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,400 BBC Four have agreed to give me their channel for an evening. 3 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,280 They asked me what I'd like to play, and I said, 4 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,280 I'd like to play science. 5 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,480 Science fiction, science documentaries. 6 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:45,240 I'd like to look back through the BBC's archives to choose, 7 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,960 well, re-watch the things I remembered watching 8 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,360 when I was little, 9 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,320 because these are all things from the '70s and '80s. 10 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,720 Also to invite some of my heroes onto a programme like this 11 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,160 so I can talk to them. 12 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,120 So I invited two of my science heroes onto this programme. 13 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,360 One is Professor Alice Roberts, 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,040 who makes, I think, some of the best documentaries on television today. 15 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:07,880 The other one is... should be Professor. 16 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,320 I should be a professor, yes. 17 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:12,000 Brian Blessed. I probably am in Tenerife! 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,960 I should say the reason I invited Brian... You probably understand 19 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:18,200 why I invited Alice onto the show, talk about science documentaries. 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,240 The reason I invited Brian on is that he has acted 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,120 in some of my favourite science-fiction television 22 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,360 across the decades, including one of the programmes 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,800 I have chosen to show, which, I call it Into Infinity. 24 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,800 Some other people call it The Day After Tomorrow. 25 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,000 Yes, The Day After Tomorrow, Into Infinity was written by a scientist. 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,400 Gerry Anderson deviated from his Thunderballs etc and said, 27 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,480 "I'm going..." Thunderbirds! 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,400 I beg your pardon, Thunderbirds. 29 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,840 Talking about science fiction, Alice, for you, 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,800 was that one of the motivations? I loved Star Trek. 31 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,200 We used to watch Star Trek as a family and I really enjoyed that... 32 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,280 Immersing yourself in imaginary worlds 33 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,560 and thinking about the possibilities, I suppose. 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,680 It blows open the possibilities, doesn't it, 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,520 rather than having dramas that are set in our world. 36 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,200 Having them set on other worlds where things are different, 37 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,560 where there are different animals, different plants, 38 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,520 different gravity, all of those things. 39 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,120 But I think for me, the thing which really drew me to science 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,560 was looking at much more everyday things, actually, 41 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,160 so it was the world around me 42 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:26,600 and particularly understanding plants and animals, and us as well. 43 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,600 You're a medical doctor, but it's also anthropology, isn't it? 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,200 Yeah, physical anthropology. So it's people. 45 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,360 But it was biology and plants and insects 46 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,400 that got you interested in the first place? 47 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,320 I remember being absolutely gripped by the idea 48 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,440 that you could see things which were invisible to the naked eye. 49 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,040 That's what really got me interested in biology. 50 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,600 And I had a microscope when I was younger 51 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,760 and I would stick everything I possibly could underneath it. 52 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:57,360 For me, one of the reasons I've chosen Into Infinity later, 53 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,240 I couldn't tell the difference between science fiction 54 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,520 and science fact at the time. It didn't matter to me. 55 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,120 It was about space flight and the exploration of space. 56 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,360 That was the thing that, I think, triggered my interest in science. 57 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,920 I know that you're going to go into space, aren't you? 58 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:14,080 I don't want to go on a tirade. 59 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,160 At the age of six, you know, we were told at infant school 60 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,320 that there were other worlds besides the Earth. 61 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,880 It took my head off as a child. 62 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:29,640 Mrs Gummersall said, "Yes, Brian, and one of the nearest ones is Mars 63 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:31,880 "and it's all red." 64 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,360 I painted Mars, and I couldn't get it out of my head. 65 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,360 You were at school... 66 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,920 Within 20 or 25 years later, we went to the moon. 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,760 Yes. Did you imagine that? We've got some clips. 68 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,760 It's one of my favourites, actually. 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,040 It's from Apollo, and particularly Apollo 13. 70 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,000 Houston, we've had a problem here. 71 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,200 This is Houston, say again, please. 72 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,760 Houston, we've had a problem. We've had a Main B bus undervolt. 73 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,520 Roger, Main B undervolt. 74 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,360 We had a pretty large bang 75 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,880 associated with the caution and warning there. 76 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,240 OK now, let's everybody keep cool. 77 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,920 We got limbs still attached, 78 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,440 let's make sure we don't blow the whole mission. 79 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,480 NEWSREADER: 'For a reason as yet unknown, 80 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,840 'some kind of explosion occurred in the spacecraft's main engine.' 81 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:19,520 Houston says that they will get back to Earth alive 82 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,960 only if the lunar module's systems work perfectly all the way. 83 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,120 So, for the first time in the history of American spaceflight, 84 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,240 there is no backup system to save them if anything goes wrong. 85 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,600 'When they come out of radio blackout, 86 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,800 'all anybody can do now is cross their fingers.' 87 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:41,040 Apollo Control to Houston, we've just had loss of signal from Honeysuckle. 88 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,600 With Apollo 13. 89 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,000 'Just about now, they should be going through 90 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,520 'the moment of maximum heat.' 91 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,040 30 seconds to go for blackout. 92 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,200 We will attempt to contact Apollo 13 93 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,280 through one of the ARIA aircraft. 94 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:04,360 Continuing to monitor this, Apollo Control, Houston. 95 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,200 Apollo 13 should be out of blackout at this time. 96 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,200 We are standing by for any reports of ARIA acquisition. 97 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,960 We have had a report that ARIA 4 aircraft has acquisition of signal. 98 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,280 They're through. 99 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,480 There they are! There they are! They've made it. 100 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,640 APPLAUSE 101 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,560 All three chutes out. 102 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,040 Extremely loud applause here in Mission Control. 103 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:52,480 Extremely loud applause as Apollo 13 on main chutes comes through 104 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,360 loud and clear on the television display here. 105 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,360 CRACKLING RADIO 106 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,720 I make it no more than five seconds late. 107 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,400 Photo one, splashdown at this time. 108 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,560 Oh, it's astonishing, isn't it? Gasping all the way through. 109 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,240 It's a great piece of broadcasting, isn't it? I think that silence... 110 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,200 I love the fact that James Burke is sat there with his fingers crossed. 111 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,400 Patrick goes very quiet, he doesn't say a word. 112 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,520 Because they were personal friends. 113 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,440 And the heat shield was a great sense of, 114 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,320 "Oh, my God, the heat shield! 115 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,360 "Will it hold?" 116 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,080 It went to four minutes. 117 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,760 You'd put money on the heat shield is gone. 118 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,680 They're dead, they vaporised. 119 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,960 Did they know the moment it splashed down, that they were alive inside? 120 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,880 Yeah, they had the radio commentary. 121 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,200 And I think Lovell talks to them as Commander all the way through, 122 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,920 so they knew once the chutes opened. 123 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,320 You talked about when you were growing up, 124 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,640 so this would be in the '40s? In the '40s, yes, yes. 125 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,320 By the '60s, we have this tremendously optimistic world, 126 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,480 but also a world that was rather frightened as well? Well, it was. 127 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:03,800 I... 128 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,200 Sometimes I get so irritated by it. 129 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,120 As a child... my biggest love in life is space. 130 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,600 I believe we are the children of stardust, 131 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,240 and we don't just belong here, come on! 132 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,360 So when I address the Interplanetary Society or I address NASA, 133 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:25,280 which to me, a working-class boy, I do say, "Get off your arses!" 134 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,440 "Sod gamma rays, sod cosmic rays, find a way!" 135 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,480 You know, "All right, Brian." 136 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:32,880 "Just do it!" 137 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,520 I've been waiting since a child. The '60s promised so much. 138 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,640 Do you feel this, certainly in space exploration terms, 139 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,280 that sense of optimism is not there at the moment? 140 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,080 We went from, well, my grandfather was born in 1900 141 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,320 before the Wright Brothers and saw Armstrong land on the moon, 142 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,600 one human lifetime. Do you see that in your area of science? 143 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,920 It seems that biological sciences, life sciences, 144 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,200 seems to be somewhat different because now seems to be the age 145 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,440 of optimism and acceleration. 146 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,840 I think children at school, looking at what is going on in space 147 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,000 at the moment and just the extraordinary, 148 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,080 being able to land something on Mars and bringing pictures of Mars back! 149 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,440 It's just utterly extraordinary, 150 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,120 and the probe that is circling the comet at the moment. 151 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,520 Yes, that's true. 152 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:22,280 Attempting to land a probe on a comet, that's extraordinary as well. 153 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,120 There are these kind of exciting projects that are really 154 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,280 at the limits of our abilities 155 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,680 and really testing our technological abilities. 156 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,520 But I do wonder, Brian, you would have been one of the people who, 157 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,640 centuries ago, you would have heard rumours of this thing, America, 158 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,120 and you would just have got on a boat and gone there, wouldn't you? 159 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,400 Yes! Well, you're going to go now, aren't you? 160 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,680 Yes, I've completed my space training. 161 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:47,720 We've got some clips of you going through astronaut training. 162 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,600 Let's have a look at those clips. 163 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,760 BRIAN: 'Every cosmonaut or astronaut 164 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,200 'going to the International Space Station 165 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,040 'must pass through these gates for testing and training. 166 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,040 'While the chair rotates, 167 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,960 'you're given simple tasks to do by the supervising doctor.' 168 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,600 HE RETCHES 169 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,000 I just... I couldn't understand that. 170 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:39,520 I don't understand, because the machine only goes round. 171 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,200 'The awful feeling stayed with us for days. 172 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,160 'It made my kidneys ache. 173 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,360 I should say that physically, that looks difficult. 174 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,080 Well, it's surprising, because I'd been on the centrifuge, 175 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,640 lots of the other big machines. 176 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,520 The most that anyone had ever sat on it was 50 seconds, a Russian. 177 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,440 No-one had gone beyond, on that little tiny thing! 178 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,520 How long did you stay on it for? I stayed on it for just over a minute! 179 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,600 I thought, "I'll beat the bastard!" 180 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,080 Dr Fong said I was unwise. 181 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,640 "Space is not THAT hard," he said. 182 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,880 How important do you think physical exploration is to us? 183 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,600 Are you one of the people that thinks this is what we should be 184 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,320 doing, we should be exploring, going out to the other planets? 185 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,920 When we look at the division of science funding, for instance, 186 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,520 we have to have room for some of that really exploratory stuff, 187 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,200 because we don't know what it will lead to. 188 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,960 We also know that an awful lot of good has come 189 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,080 from blue skies research in the past 190 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,680 and so we have to make sure that there is room 191 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:41,960 for that kind of reaching out totally into the unknown, where we 192 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,080 are not even able to predict what the possible outcomes might be. 193 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,360 How important do you think science on television is 194 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,160 for, I suppose, stimulating these debates? 195 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,640 I know we all share the view - I think we all share the view - 196 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,920 that we spend too little on scientific research. 197 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,120 I'm certainly always banging the... 198 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,480 How important do you think scientific documentaries are 199 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,600 in advancing that argument? 200 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,160 Do you think they SHOULD advance that argument? 201 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,120 I think that it's important that scientists engage 202 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,680 with social scientists and philosophers 203 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,560 in order to really understand what they're doing 204 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:19,760 in a social context as well, 205 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,080 so that it's not just, there it is on a plate. 206 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,440 It's about how that fits into society. 207 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,680 Then I think television has a role to play 208 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:28,800 in terms of airing those debates, 209 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,080 as well as just showing people the results of research. 210 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,520 I think actually we have some clips now 211 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,320 of what I would call the more polemical side 212 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,400 of science broadcasting. 213 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,840 I think there was a golden age of this for me, in the '70s and '80s. 214 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,920 For me, Bronowski, Jacob Bronowski embodies this, 215 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,760 this, I suppose, offering your opinion as a science broadcaster, 216 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,560 rather than just presenting the facts. 217 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:57,800 Let's have a look at some Bronowski. 218 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,440 It happens that there is a philosopher called Friedrich Hegel, 219 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,520 whom I must confess I specifically detest. 220 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,400 I am happy to share that profound feeling 221 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,000 with a far greater man, Gauss. 222 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,720 In 1800, Hegel published a thesis, if you please, 223 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,120 proving that although the definition of planets 224 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,360 had changed since the Ancients, 225 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,240 there still could only be, philosophically, seven planets. 226 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,760 Well, not only Gauss knew how to answer that, 227 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,040 Shakespeare had answered that long before! 228 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,720 There is a marvellous passage in King Lear 229 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,640 in which who else but the Fool says to the King, 230 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,520 "The reason why the seven stars are no more than seven 231 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,800 "is a pretty reason." 232 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,880 And the King wags sagely and says, "Because they are not eight." 233 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,240 The Fool says, "Yes, indeed! Thou wouldst make a good fool." 234 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,000 And so did Hegel. 235 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:08,240 ..Not until Newton turned this into a physical system, 236 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,200 that modern scientific method really begins. 237 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,800 We can see in this book, actually, where the stumbling blocks were. 238 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,800 For instance, I am convinced that it's because at section 12 239 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,120 on how does a sphere attract a particle, 240 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,280 that we see the immense mathematical difficulties 241 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,520 that he had to overcome before he could publish. 242 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,680 When Newton was challenged on such questions such as, 243 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:44,000 "You haven't explained WHY gravity acts," 244 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,120 "You haven't explained HOW action at a distance could take place," 245 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,200 or indeed, "You haven't explained WHY rays of light 246 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,600 "behave the way they do," he always answered in the same terms. 247 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,640 "I do not make hypotheses." 248 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,320 It's said that science will dehumanise people 249 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,560 and turn them into numbers. 250 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:07,280 That's false - tragically false. 251 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,360 Look for yourself. 252 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,560 This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. 253 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,240 This is where people were turned into numbers. 254 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,800 Into this pond were flushed the ashes 255 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,920 of some four million people. 256 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,080 That was not done by gas - it was done by arrogance, 257 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,880 it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. 258 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,520 When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, 259 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,560 with no test in reality, this is how they behave. 260 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,160 This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods. 261 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,600 Science is a very human form of knowledge. 262 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,280 We are always at the brink of the known, 263 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:02,360 we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. 264 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,240 Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error, 265 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,760 and is personal. 266 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,640 Science is a tribute to what we can know, 267 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,840 ALTHOUGH we are fallible. 268 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,000 In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell - 269 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,680 "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, 270 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,560 "think it possible you may be mistaken." 271 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,920 I owe it as a scientist to my friend Leo Szilard, 272 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,840 I owe it as a human being 273 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,640 to the many members of my family who died here, 274 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,480 to stand here as a survivor and a witness. 275 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,920 We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge 276 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,600 and power. 277 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,360 We have to close the distance between the... 278 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,760 ..push-button order and the human act. 279 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,440 We have to touch people. 280 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,040 I mean, one of the great speeches. 281 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,000 Wonderful, the whole nation shook when he said it. Yes. 282 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,120 The whole nation shown the bowels of Christ. 283 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,120 "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ." Yes. 284 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,880 That we can be mistaken, and it's such an important thing, isn't it? 285 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,600 And also of its time, 286 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,680 because I think that there were all these worries about where science 287 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,320 was taking us, and there still are today, 288 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,240 and I think to just rein it in and to say, "Actually, 289 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,240 "science isn't out there somewhere, science is something we are 290 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:57,640 "doing as humans and, you know, we can approach it with humanity." 291 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,520 I think that's such an important message. 292 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,240 Yes, and also that idea that science stands on the edge of the known, 293 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,760 looking out into the unknown, that nothing is certain. Yes. 294 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,080 That message is a very powerful one and you see it today in debates on 295 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,760 the so-called controversial areas - 296 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,600 GM crops, climate change, in particular, 297 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,200 you see this accusation that science is dogmatic... Yes. 298 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,280 ..and it's a beautiful answer. 299 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,520 I heard when we were watching those clips, actually, 300 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,040 you said that you wouldn't... 301 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,600 Not necessarily the last clip, 302 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,800 that would be broadcast if anyone had the power to do it any time, 303 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,760 but the previous clips of Bronowski 304 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,120 where he pauses and he thinks and he laughs to himself 305 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,280 and then he says that Hegel is a complete fool 306 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,280 and he has no time for Hegel. 307 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,280 You said when we were watching it, "We couldn't do that now." Why? 308 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,480 It would be interesting to talk about that somewhat. 309 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,560 We both make science documentaries now. Yes. 310 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,000 Why do you feel we can't do that now? 311 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,800 Where there is room for opinion and there is room for differences 312 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,440 of opinion, you are not necessarily allowed to do that, 313 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,560 and you have to present a balanced view, 314 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,280 but I think it's possible to... 315 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,880 It is possible to express your opinion 316 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,960 as long as you're very clear it is your opinion. 317 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,680 By "not allowed", what do you mean? 318 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,160 What is the process by which you are not allowed to do that? 319 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,240 There seems to be so much concern about... 320 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,120 showing both sides of an argument even when, perhaps, actually, 321 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,000 the balance is that the vast majority of people hold one opinion 322 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,840 which is based on what the evidence is saying, 323 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,880 and there is a very small number of people who argue against it, 324 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,160 and yet somehow we have to listen to those people. 325 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,000 I don't know how to deal with that, because you don't want to give 326 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,040 the impression that there is only one answer, 327 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,560 but on the other hand you don't want to muddy the water 328 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,480 by suggesting that there is a real division 329 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,720 when you have got the weight of the evidence very firmly resting 330 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,560 with one explanation of the way the world works. 331 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,480 I must say, when I watch Bronowski in particular, 332 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,680 I wonder whether we are doing the audience a bit of a disservice 333 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,040 in this rather more structured and balanced view that we present, 334 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,680 because the power and passion of his views, 335 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,360 some of which I don't agree with and some of which I do, 336 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,880 is refreshing to see. It's good, isn't it? 337 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,880 There's a question to you, is it good to watch 338 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,440 something on television that you think, "I don't agree, 339 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,800 "but I see you've got an opinion, you're intelligent, 340 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,360 "you've thought about it"? 341 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,920 I mean, do you fancy doing something like that in the future? 342 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,960 Do you fancy getting these television people 343 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,040 and going, "Right, this is what I'm going to say?" 344 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,400 When you are talking about science versus pseudoscience 345 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,880 or science versus a non-scientific worldview 346 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,440 then I think there is room for scientists 347 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,320 to be much more polemical than they have been. 348 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,360 And challenging. And challenging. And I will do that 349 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:51,120 when I'm talking about evolution versus creationism. 350 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:55,400 I am very clear that creationism is not a scientific perspective. 351 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,440 You don't think there's room for balance there? You don't think 352 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,440 we should have someone giving the opposing view? No! 353 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,080 And I must say I do not separate the Earth 354 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,920 and all the wonderful creatures 355 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,040 and the ponds and the plankton and so forth, 356 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,920 and mountains and lakes which I go and devour as a human being, 357 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,480 go round them and want it so much. 358 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,960 I find myself standing on Chimborazo near Cotopaxi, 359 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,520 which of course, on the bend of the Earth, 360 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,560 is the closest place to Mars. 361 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,760 And I put my hand out, and I am now the closest you can be. 362 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,080 Not on the top of Everest, but on the top of Chimborazo. 363 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,720 Since I was six, I want to go. 364 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,520 There is a race memory. 365 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,280 We are not just Earthbound. 366 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,040 Brian, what I really love is the poetry that you see in science 367 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,720 and it really is the argument 368 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,800 against the argument that science unweaves the rainbow, 369 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,280 that we get rid of all the wonder and the poetry and the awe 370 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,680 of looking at the world if we start to understand it. 371 00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,880 Yes. 372 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,240 On that topic, we have got some clips now from one of the greatest 373 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,760 scientists ever to have lived, Richard Feynman, 374 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,040 and in particular, he talks about the poetry of science 375 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,920 and in particular this idea of unweaving the rainbow. 376 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,560 I have a friend who is an artist 377 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,600 and has sometimes taken a view which I don't agree with very well. 378 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,160 He'll hold up a flower and say "Look how beautiful it is." 379 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,400 And I'll agree. Then he says, "You see, I, as an artist, 380 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,120 "can see how beautiful this is, 381 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,920 "but you, as a scientist, take this all apart 382 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,760 "and it becomes a dull thing." 383 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,400 I think that he is kind of nutty. 384 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,480 First of all, the beauty that he sees 385 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,320 is available to other people, and to me too. 386 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,000 I believe that, although I may not be quite as refined aesthetically 387 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,000 as he is, that I can appreciate the beauty of the flower. 388 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,000 At the same time, I see much more about the flower than he sees. 389 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,360 I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions, 390 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:57,160 which also have a beauty. 391 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,200 I mean, it is not just beauty at this dimension, at one centimetre, 392 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,520 there's also beauty at smaller dimensions. 393 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,160 We will have mostly atoms of one kind on one side 394 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,160 and atoms of the other kind on the other side. 395 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,600 Now, these atoms are jiggling around... 396 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,600 It's too small a box, you need more to get this effect. 397 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,320 Billions and billions of these atoms. 398 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,440 Now, these atoms are jiggling around. 399 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,840 LAUGHTER 400 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,960 I just put one more, but I'm getting tired of making it. 401 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,760 All the kids were playing in a field and one kid said to me, 402 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,880 "See that bird? What kind of bird is that?" 403 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,280 And I said "I haven't got the slightest idea of a bird it is." 404 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,360 He said, "It's a brown-throated thrush," or something. 405 00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:41,240 He says, "Your father doesn't tell you anything!" 406 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,640 But it was the opposite. 407 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,480 My father had taught me. Looking at a bird, he says, 408 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,880 "Do you know what that bird is? It's a brown-throated thrush. 409 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,920 "But in Portuguese, it's a honto la pero. In Italian, a chutera pikita." 410 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,640 He says "In Chinese, it's a chong-ong-tok. 411 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,280 "In Japanese, apatara kupudecha", etc. 412 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,520 He says, "Now you know all the languages you want to know 413 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,600 "what the name of that bird is, and when you finish with all that, 414 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,600 "you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird. 415 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,840 "You only know about humans in different places 416 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,440 "and what they call the bird. 417 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,400 "Now, let's look at the bird and what it's doing." 418 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,280 Little pictures like this are called Feynman diagrams, 419 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,640 after their inventor, Richard Feynman. 420 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,040 He won the Nobel Prize for what he worked out with them 421 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,480 about the electric force. 422 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,320 We can describe the phenomena of light in this way. 423 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,760 An electron on the sun, when it has just the right energy 424 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,160 and momentum, can emit a photon, 425 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,920 and that photon or light particle travels through space 426 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,720 and comes into our eye, where it shakes an electron in the eye 427 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,480 and we see it. 428 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,000 This can be represented in a diagram 429 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,800 which we can represent the electron in the sun moving, 430 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,960 and emitting a photon, which is absorbed by the electron in the eye. 431 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,200 REPORTER: Was it worth a Nobel Prize? 432 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,960 That's... 433 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,480 HE LAUGHS 434 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,360 I don't know anything about the Nobel Prize, I don't understand 435 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,480 what it is all about or what's worth what. 436 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,000 And if the people in the Swedish Academy decide that X,Y or Z 437 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,920 wins a Nobel Prize, then so be it. 438 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,480 I won't have anything to do with the Nobel Prize, it's a pain in the... 439 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,160 HE LAUGHS 440 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,960 I don't like honours. 441 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,320 I'm appreciated for the work I did 442 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,440 and for people who appreciate it 443 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,240 and I notice other physicists use my work. 444 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,240 I don't need anything else, 445 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,120 I don't think there's any sense to anything else. 446 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:44,800 I don't see that it makes any point that someone in the Swedish Academy 447 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,440 decides that this work was noble enough to receive a prize. 448 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,080 I've already got the prize - the prize is the pleasure 449 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,240 of finding the thing out, the kick in the discovery, 450 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,600 the observation that other people use it. 451 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,360 Those are the real things. 452 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,440 The honours are unreal to me. 453 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,000 I don't believe in honours. 454 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,920 People say to me, "Are you looking for the ultimate laws of physics?" 455 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,840 No, I am not, I'm just looking to find out more about the world. 456 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,560 And if it turns out there is a simple ultimate law that explains everything 457 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,800 so be it, that would be very nice to discover. 458 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,400 If it turns out it is like an onion with millions of layers 459 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,920 and we are just sick and tired of looking at the layers 460 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,160 then that's the way it is. 461 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,600 But whatever way it comes out, its nature is there 462 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,960 and she's going to come out the way she is. 463 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,240 Therefore, when we go to investigate it, 464 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,040 we shouldn't pre-decide what it is we are trying to do 465 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,760 except to find out more about it. 466 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,640 I don't feel frightened by not knowing things. 467 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,680 By being lost in a mysterious universe without having any purpose, 468 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,720 which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. 469 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,040 It doesn't frighten me. 470 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,000 You see Feynman there, who is obviously unique, 471 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,240 he's one of the greatest physicists that ever lived, 472 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:02,160 and he makes a great television personality as well, doesn't he? 473 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,760 Yes, he does. He is very eloquent. 474 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,600 I think one of the things the BBC has done right recently is, 475 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,720 and I would say this because I'm one of them, 476 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,920 but it's employed academics to present science programmes 477 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,320 and helped them and essentially 478 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,080 taught them how to present programmes. 479 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,240 Do you think that's a good thing to do to - to try and focus on 480 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,360 academics and researchers to present the science? 481 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:23,800 Well, of course, I'm going to say yes again, Brian, 482 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,560 because I'm one of them, too! 483 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,640 I think that what you get is the real enthusiasm, don't you? 484 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,000 It's not about pretending to be enthusiastic about something, 485 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,760 it's actually not about acting. 486 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,640 Um, it's about talking about subjects 487 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,440 that you are genuinely passionate about. 488 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,160 The other thing I like about Feynman, he's just fantastic, 489 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,720 is that he's funny. Yes, he's very funny. 490 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:45,920 He's unique. Yeah. 491 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,080 But there's also that element of authority. He's very single-minded, 492 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,280 he's very famous for being extremely single-minded and straightforward. 493 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,720 When you train to be a researcher, you are direct, 494 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,320 and we had the discussion earlier 495 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,840 about how direct you're allowed to be on television. 496 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,760 Do you think that's important as well? 497 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,560 There is a certain attitude that comes to exploring the unknown, 498 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,800 you've got to have a particular attitude. 499 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,000 You learn that when you do a PhD, actually, 500 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,600 when you defend the thesis. Yes, absolutely. 501 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,440 Intellectually aggressive, in a sense. Yes. 502 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,240 And the approach to evidence and the... 503 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,080 I think the scepticism. 504 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,960 I think that's incredibly important, isn't it, 505 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,960 that you never take things on authority. 506 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,920 You always look at the evidence behind. 507 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,960 Sagan, his mother was very sceptical, wasn't sure all the time, 508 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,960 and his father was a man with all the imagination and stories. 509 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,120 We've got some clips, actually, It's a good time to see them, 510 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:40,560 of the great Carl Sagan in action. 511 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,120 Are we alone in the cosmos? 512 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,600 Is it possible by some poignant and fathomless joke 513 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,920 that we are the only intelligent beings 514 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,520 in a vast and awesome universe? 515 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:04,840 Now, the possibility of life on a hypothetical planet 516 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,440 of some of these stars depends on a number of factors. 517 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,600 Many of them are obvious - 518 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,680 the evolution of intelligence, of technical civilisation. 519 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,960 But there is one other and that's the lifetime of 520 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,280 a technical civilisation. 521 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,440 If the civilisation destroys itself fast, 522 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,000 we are not going to know about it, and certainly, 523 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,360 the recent history of life on Earth suggests that civilisations 524 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:27,080 may, in fact, destroy themselves 525 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,200 shortly after reaching a stage of technical competence. 526 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,560 We are thinking beings, we are interested 527 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,360 and excited in understanding how the world is put together. 528 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:40,360 We seek out the extraordinary. 529 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,360 PATRICK MOORE: I am fascinated that you don't entirely discount 530 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:44,680 any kind of life on Mars. 531 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,480 If there is any life there, what form do you think it takes? 532 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,280 Nobody knows, any more than if we lived on Mars 533 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,680 and examined the Earth through a large telescope 534 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,080 we could deduce beings as strange-looking as we on the Earth. 535 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,600 We look the way we do as human beings and as salamanders and as... 536 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,960 fish... PATRICK LAUGHS 537 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,840 ..because of an enormous number of separate steps, 538 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,920 mutations and selection events in the four-billion year history 539 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,080 of life, which could never recur again on some other planet. 540 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,840 But, in general, how might one 541 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,440 go about performing such a communication? 542 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,240 How would you send a message to space? What would you say? 543 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,840 You obviously don't send out a message in English saying, 544 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,400 "Are you chaps Presbyterians?" 545 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,480 For one thing, they don't understand English up there. 546 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,920 The surface of the Earth is the shore of the cosmic ocean. 547 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,760 On this shore, we have learned most of what we know. 548 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,680 Recently, we have waded a little way out, maybe ankle-deep, 549 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,840 and the water seems inviting. 550 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,720 Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. 551 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,360 We long to return. 552 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,000 And we can, because the cosmos is also within us. 553 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,120 We are made of star stuff. 554 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,800 We are a way for the cosmos to know itself. 555 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,720 The journey for each of us begins here. 556 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,040 We're going to explore the cosmos in a ship of the imagination. 557 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,200 Unfettered by ordinary limits on speed and size, 558 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,320 drawn by the music of cosmic harmonies, 559 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,600 it can take us anywhere in space and time. 560 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:31,560 Perfect as a snowflake, organic as a dandelion seed, 561 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:37,200 it will carry us to worlds of dreams and worlds of facts. 562 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,280 Come with me. 563 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,680 Before us is the cosmos on the grandest scale we know. 564 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,200 I think Cosmos is the greatest science documentary of all time... 565 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,040 I agree. ..still. Alice doesn't, in fact! 566 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,040 We were talking about that earlier. I'll get you letters! 567 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,000 It'll be terrible on Twitter! 568 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,280 You've said that you're not a Carl Sagan fan, 569 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,280 which is a terrible thing to say. 570 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,800 It's a very personal thing, obviously. Redeem yourself! 571 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,600 I understand he's a great scientist 572 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,840 and I understand he's a great science communicator 573 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,960 and many people have watched his programmes and learnt about science 574 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,000 but I actually can't bear him. 575 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,840 He assumes that kind of role of scientist as prophet. 576 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,240 It's his style, isn't it? 577 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,760 I attended one of his lectures at Ithaca, in Cornell, 578 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,640 and he said, "You know..." 579 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,040 We talked about life on other planets, 580 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,400 probably trillions and trillions of planets, 581 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,920 not dissimilar to the Earth. 582 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,240 Well, the current number is 20 billion. 20 billion?! 583 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,080 The current best estimate, based on the Kepler data. Marvellous. 584 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,360 So he was always fascinating about that. 585 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,960 And Sagan said, "All that's in science fiction, 586 00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:02,040 "all that we imagine of life on other worlds, is human in concept. 587 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,680 "And it limits us, so that the life in the universe 588 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,640 "is much more varied and far different 589 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,480 "and far more complex than the human brain can envisage." 590 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,040 Well, he worked on the Viking programme, which was the first 591 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,400 spacecraft to land on Mars, the first to look for life. 592 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,320 Just on a scientific perspective, what do you think the chances are 593 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,400 of life emerging spontaneously elsewhere? 594 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,640 Let's say on Mars, or anywhere where there's liquid water, perhaps. 595 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,120 There are obviously a lot of planets out there which have the capacity 596 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,280 for supporting life in terms of being what we think of 597 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,760 as the right temperature and having water present 598 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,560 and all that sort of thing, and something like carbon or silicon 599 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,520 that you could base the structure of a body on, 600 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,240 but I don't know whether we've really got an understanding 601 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,320 of how unlikely our own presence is on the planet 602 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,800 and how much chance has a role to play. 603 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,680 Because I think it's probably likely that there are things like bacteria 604 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,400 out there - I'm not really interested. 605 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,960 I want things with potentially arms and legs and brains, actually. 606 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,680 I think intelligent life is probably extremely rare. 607 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,720 If I was to guess. I agree with you that I think microbes... 608 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,880 I wouldn't be surprised if the ExoMars Rover finds evidence 609 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,720 that there was, or perhaps still is, microbial life on Mars, 610 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,120 I wouldn't be surprised. 611 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,080 Or on some of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn 612 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,440 where there's liquid water. 613 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,520 But the more I think about and learn about evolution, 614 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,160 about your subject, the more I read about it, the more I think 615 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,600 that the journey to intelligence on this planet, 616 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,360 it certainly took 3.8 billion years to intelligence, in the sense of 617 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,160 a civilisation-building intelligence, 618 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,240 which is the way that SETI define it, actually. 619 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,480 They define intelligence as a civilisation that 620 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,280 can do astronomy, which I think is a reasonable definition. 621 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,760 The reason for that is sensible. 622 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,080 They want to communicate, 623 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,280 so they are looking for the number of civilisations 624 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,720 that we could possibly communicate with, and that means 625 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,120 you've built spacecraft or radio telescopes at least, 626 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,120 or you've emitted radio waves into the cosmos. 627 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,160 I wouldn't be surprised if there's only one intelligent civilisation. 628 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,880 I just think there are trillions and trillions, billions of planets 629 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,320 that have life forms throughout the universe. 630 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,240 Well, you want aliens, don't you? 631 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:15,200 I just think that beyond our imagination, limitless horizons, 632 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,240 limitless civilisations. With eagle's wings! 633 00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:20,480 Yes, winged warriors is what you want! That's right. 634 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,560 And we need warriors from Vultan and his Sky City and Flash Gordon. 635 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,600 I... 636 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,520 Do it, do it, "Gordon's alive." What? Do it! 637 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,760 GORDON'S ALIVE! 638 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,040 LAUGHTER 639 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,440 So, Brian, let's have a look at some of your work in science fiction now. 640 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,720 Oh, if you must(!) 641 00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:44,440 Skipper. 642 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,200 Skipper, we've gained a 0.5 degree error on launch. 643 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,040 Skipper. 644 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,880 I wouldn't wait too long, Skipper. The Altares is caught in 645 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,320 the gravitational pull of that sun out there. 646 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,520 Skipper, a black hole. We're being pulled into a black hole. 647 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:12,080 Ragna! 648 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,600 Look on this, an ancient scene, and see Yrcanos, a great warlord! 649 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,000 ALARM BLARES 650 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,040 And also Yrcanos, the even greater liberator! 651 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,080 He's certainly a man of little modesty. 652 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,360 Yrcanos? Eh? It's time we found Peri. 653 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,520 Of course! I need my queen to grace my moment of triumph! 654 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,960 Varoonik! 655 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:41,080 So you and those before you build your power on fear 656 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,720 and ruled them with it. 657 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:44,560 I ruled?! 658 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,480 I ruled a small prison planet 659 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,960 with never more than 500 people! 660 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,680 But with this, with this, I could rule 1,000 planets. 661 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,320 For that prize, do you think I would hesitate to kill you? 662 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,840 Now, take this ship back to Cygnus Alpha...now! 663 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,920 I was their priest! 664 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,960 I shall return to them a god! 665 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,360 ECHOING: A GOD! 666 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,320 I am Mentor, of the planet Psychon. 667 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,920 Why did you attack our ship? 668 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,560 We came in peace. 669 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,200 You send an armed ship to our planet and talk of peace? 670 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,120 That ship was a survey vessel, searching for minerals. 671 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,200 We had no way of knowing your planet was inhabited. 672 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,160 Yes, a familiar argument, commander, 673 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,880 one that has caused the death of millions of our people. 674 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,080 What do you think of these Alphans, Maya? 675 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,600 I teach you the priceless art of molecular transformation 676 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,080 and see how you use it. 677 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,640 Foolish games. I'd help in your work if you like. 678 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,440 No, no, there is a great deal about the work that I do 679 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,200 that you do not understand as yet. Oh, Father... Ah, ah. 680 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,400 Not yet. 681 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,200 There... 682 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,520 Unencumbered by death we shall leap from planet to planet, 683 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,040 from solar system to solar system, from galaxy to galaxy. 684 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,560 We shall be as gods in the universe. 685 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:21,720 Gods. 686 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,320 Alphans and Thulians will walk together into the future. 687 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,360 SCREAMING 688 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:39,400 SHE SCREAMS 689 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,560 I love Space 1999. 690 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,200 I've got a Space 1999 outfit. Have you? 691 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,920 Yeah, I had one made. 692 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,440 THEY LAUGH 693 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,720 For my 10th wedding anniversary party, honestly. 694 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:04,720 It was fancy dress and that was my favourite television show 695 00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,440 when I was growing up. 696 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,920 It's good science fiction, Space 1999. Yes, it is. Well written. 697 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,840 It is. Space 1999 is very well written, yes. 698 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,080 Do you enjoy acting in science fiction? 699 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,280 I do, I find it such fun, science fiction. 700 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,560 I'm going to do a big one next year which I have to be quiet about. 701 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,000 I am actually going to be an angel, really. 702 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,560 A very quiet angel, very angelic... 703 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,440 It's ever since I did Who Do You Think You Are? the other week, 704 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,920 being very quiet about my family. 705 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,080 And suddenly, I have been offered this kind of great big part 706 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,120 in this science-fiction film as this angel, lovely and gentle. 707 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,680 It's surely going to be your greatest acting challenge! Quiet?! 708 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,120 THEY LAUGH 709 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,840 Being very, very quiet indeed. 710 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:51,200 Where you will fall in love with me is as Boss Nass in Star Wars. 711 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,840 Phantom Menace? Yeah. The King of the Gungans. Yeah. 712 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,920 (AS BOSS NASS) Me sound like this. The big frog with the head. 713 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,760 Is that you? I didn't... That's me! 714 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,120 I didn't know that was you! 715 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,560 JIGGLES LIPS 716 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,880 (AS BOSS) Mesa like dis. 717 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,400 You no think you are no better than us Gungans. 718 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,760 Maybe we can be friends. 719 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,400 Lucas phoned me up afterwards and said, 720 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,920 "Brian, I want something extraordinary here, Brian. 721 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,160 "Cos all the Jedi are kneeling to you, 722 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,240 "everybody's begging you to save them." 723 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,880 SPEAKS GUNGAN 724 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,040 May... 725 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,000 Maybe we could be friends. 726 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,400 I like this. 727 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,720 Ha! 728 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:42,800 He said, "When you did that, Brian, 729 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,240 "it cost 365,000 quid in special effects to go with your face." 730 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:48,800 Yes! 731 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,400 You see, it's 80 feet long, my face, big Gungan, 732 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,280 and I'm the hero in it. 733 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,120 I didn't know that was you! That's me, for God's sake. 734 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,960 I've got to show some clips. 735 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,000 The great Patrick Moore who was probably broadcasting 736 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,480 on the radio and on television when you were ten years old. 737 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,400 That's right. Let's have a look at Patrick Moore, a pioneer. 738 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,520 Like many of your viewers, Mr Moore, I have often wondered 739 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,440 when and why you developed your intense interest in astronomy. 740 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,400 Well, I personally began taking a real interest in astronomy 741 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,280 when I was six years old, simply by reading a book. 742 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,480 Well, of course, there's always been this intense interest in astronomy 743 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,320 and I found that even when I was young, way back in the 1930s. 744 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,720 It's grown, obviously, 745 00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:32,360 but there are more people around and I don't personally think 746 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,080 that these space programmes have had everything to do with it. 747 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,360 Obviously, they have helped, but it is not the be all 748 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,360 and the end all of this increasing interest. 749 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,760 Consider the people who first maintained that the Earth 750 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,960 goes round the sun instead of the other way round. 751 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,720 People like Aristarchus in Greek times, 752 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:48,720 and Copernicus in the 16th century. They were regarded as eccentric, 753 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,880 and in the early part of the 17th century there was 754 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,440 a tremendous storm about it and it even lead to a trial in Rome 755 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,160 in which Galileo, the great scientist, was accused of impiety. 756 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,240 Because the stars are such a very long way away, 757 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,560 we want a good deal of space in which to operate, 758 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,080 and so we thought the best thing we could do was to utilise 759 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,040 a cricket field, where there is plenty of room, and ask 760 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,960 some of the Holmewood House boys to help us in our experiments. 761 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,480 I think I'd better show you, really, what it's all about, 762 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,000 and this is best done by means of a very simple experiment. 763 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,120 Will you please close one eye? 764 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,840 It doesn't matter which one. 765 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,280 And then hold up your finger and line your finger up 766 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,480 with my nose as you see it on the television screen. 767 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,160 Got that all right? 768 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,040 Now without moving anything, use the other eye, 769 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,240 and you will see that your finger is no longer lined up with my nose. 770 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,440 Now, there we have our set-up. 771 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,560 Paul, representing 61 Cygni, the nearby star, 772 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,920 is moving very obviously compared with the background stars. 773 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,240 Not because he's really moving, 774 00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:49,640 but because the camera is. 775 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,600 We've really exciting news. 776 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,880 Halley's Comet has been sighted for the first time in over 70 years. 777 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,000 SPEAKS GIBBERISH 778 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,880 What does that mean, actually? That means "How are all you?" 779 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,360 "I am very pleased to see you this afternoon." 780 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,560 How many languages can you speak? 781 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,920 I can speak, altogether, three of the space languages. 782 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,000 One is Venusian, 783 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,680 the second is Kruger, the planet Kruger 60B. Yes. 784 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,440 And Pluto. What about Martian? 785 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,000 Martian, I don't know much about their language. 786 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,080 It looks a most professional telescope, 787 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,200 and yet you tell me it is made out of odds and ends. 788 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,400 I find that hard to believe! 789 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,520 That's right, everything you see was obtained from a scrap yard. 790 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,640 The main difficulty, funnily enough, was to keep the rust down. 791 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,480 Obviously, it is all made of scrap, and rust has to be removed 792 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,720 before you can begin treating the whole thing to paint it. 793 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,360 I have rust problems as well. 794 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,000 The tube in my telescope is actually wooden, but the mounting 795 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,200 is mainly metal, of course, 796 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,320 and I'm only 500 yards from the sea, so I can sympathise. 797 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,120 THEY LAUGH 798 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,040 The great Sir Patrick Moore there, but interestingly, 799 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,560 we were talking earlier about professional scientists 800 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,120 and people like Feynman, but also professional scientists 801 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:02,440 presenting programmes. 802 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,800 Patrick Moore is the embodiment of an amateur. 803 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,240 Isn't he? Yes, absolutely. It's astonishing. 804 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:09,440 I mean, he played the xylophone, he was... 805 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,600 Of course, he was a pilot in the war. Yes. 806 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,000 In the Second World War, navigator and all of that. 807 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,960 An astonishing guy all round, 808 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,480 but he has the ingredient also of being selfless. 809 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,720 I was watching him in a studio once. 810 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:25,960 (AS SIR PATRICK MOORE) "Hello, Brian, hello, Brian!" 811 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,400 He said, "I want to do this about Barnard's Star... 812 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,800 "We've lost it again, oh, come, come, come! 813 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,680 "Let's get on with it! We're losing time, I want to make an episode." 814 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,600 "We're going to lose it. A very important point. You're back! 815 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,880 "Ladies and gentlemen, let me point this out..." 816 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,520 He was so intent on educating people and telling people 817 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,960 about the magic of the universe. Patrick just wasn't... 818 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,840 He was a servant, a total servant. Yes. 819 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,560 It made him so wonderfully free. 820 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,000 That is the great thing about the Sky At Night, I think. 821 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,800 It's an amateur astronomy programme. 822 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,600 It'd often have professionals on it. Yes. 823 00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,840 Whilst we are talking about science broadcasting, 824 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:01,320 let's have a look at, for me, 825 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,720 the greatest science presenter who wasn't actually a scientist. 826 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:09,800 Good evening. 827 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,120 It's James Burke. 828 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,400 I'm going, I'm going, 829 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,960 it's fantastic! It's unbelievable! 830 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,520 It's the most extraordinary feeling. 831 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,920 I can... I can't really control myself. 832 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,400 You should see the crew that are filming me, what they're up to. 833 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,600 MUSIC: The Blue Danube Waltz by Johann Strauss 834 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,400 What goes up tends to come down. 835 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:40,440 GUNSHOT 836 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,640 If you fire with sufficient power, 837 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,960 the rocket will come down halfway across the world, but at an angle. 838 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,840 Reach a speed of over 17,000 miles an hour, and the rocket will fall, 839 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,720 but miss the Earth, and go on missing it, like this. 840 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,920 Next you boost your speed to over 25,000 miles an hour, 841 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,080 and the rocket will follow a new orbit, 842 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,040 still trying to fall to Earth but going out over 250,000 miles 843 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,160 into space before doing so, like this. 844 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,040 If the rocket is intercepted at this point by the moon, 845 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,920 then the moon's gravitational field will attract the rocket 846 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,040 just enough to change its orbit, swing it round the back of the moon 847 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,080 and head to Earth. 848 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,120 A touch on the brake pedal, as it were, at the right moment, 849 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,720 and you stay in orbit round the Moon. 850 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:30,480 Another touch and you land. 851 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,600 All you have to do have to be able to do that is one of these. 852 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:36,920 A Saturn V. 853 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,040 MUSIC: O Fortuna by Carl Orff 854 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,120 If there was ever a piece of technology that appealed 855 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,920 to the emotions, it was the Saturn V lifting off on that July morning 856 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,760 in 1965, heading for the moon. 857 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,080 Remember? 858 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,120 I'm as emotional as anybody else. I won't forget it. 859 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,800 # Sors salutis 860 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,520 # Et virtutis 861 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,920 # Michi nunc contraria 862 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,440 # Est affectus 863 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,400 # Et defectus 864 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,840 # Semper in angaria 865 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,600 # Hac in hora 866 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,920 # Sine mora 867 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:36,040 # Corde pulsum tangite 868 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,280 # Quod per sortem 869 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,920 # Sternit fortem 870 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:47,880 # Mecum omnes plangite! # 871 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:53,840 The trouble was, that thing took off as much on euphoria 872 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,480 as on rocket fuel. 873 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,080 Because the public understood it as a great adventure, 874 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,960 and how many great adventures are you going to pay for 875 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,960 when the plot's the same every time? 876 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,480 So the taxpayer lost interest, and Apollo became this. 877 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:20,560 And before you say "Good - waste of money", 878 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:21,920 in the same period, 879 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,360 American women spent the same amount of money on cosmetics. 880 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,640 It was lack of understanding of the scientific reason behind Apollo 881 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:30,920 that killed it. 882 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,440 That, and the desire we all seem to have developed for novelty. 883 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,680 That's one of the effects of living with a high rate of change 884 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,640 like we do, that desire for novelty. 885 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,520 But it carries a price. 886 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,800 More novelty, less understanding. 887 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,720 More wrong attitudes towards things like what happened here. 888 00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:52,040 We've arrived at a point where, as somebody said, 889 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,960 if you understand something today, it must be obsolete. 890 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,760 The thing I tend to feel about your programmes... Yes? 891 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,560 I always feel, with a TV programme or a lecture situation, 892 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,560 preparation is tremendously important, 893 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,040 but it always seems to me that if that preparation 894 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,960 seems to revolve around gimmicky renderings of information, 895 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,760 it almost... It's rather like a pop tune, right? 896 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,400 You hear the hook line but not necessarily the song. 897 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,880 Don't you feel that's true? 898 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,640 Are you saying that the work I do is like pop and not like Beethoven? 899 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,800 I'm saying that your programmes revolve around gimmicks so much 900 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,840 that people notice the gimmicks and not the information. 901 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,120 Name one. 902 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,160 Like you rushing around with a hammer 903 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,360 and smashing up washing machines. I mean, people remember that, 904 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,160 they don't remember why you were doing it. 905 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,600 I credit people with more intelligence than you do, then. 906 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,400 Because I think they do recall that. 907 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,360 As a programme, as it happens, people, a couple of months later, 908 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,160 they remember one thing, right? 909 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,040 How much do you want them to remember? 910 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,200 I'd like them to remember the gist of the programme, 911 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,080 and they don't seem to remember the gist. 912 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,960 They seem to remember the incidents where you're being rather... 913 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,200 I don't mean to be offensive. No, go ahead, go ahead. 914 00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,920 I don't mean to be offensive. The way you're being melodramatic 915 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,760 in the way you approach your subject. How would you do it? 916 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,440 I just feel if it revolves around gimmicks, people will watch it 917 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,240 for the gimmicks and not for the information, that's what I feel. 918 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:10,760 Do you think more people would be interested in a programme 919 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,720 about probability and mathematics if I started by saying, "0 to 1, 920 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,520 "how many numbers between 0 and 1? There are an infinite 921 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,480 "number of numbers and integers," and so on, or if I flipped a coin 922 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,240 and said, "How do you know it's going to be one or the other?" 923 00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:26,360 I mean, surely, it's no more than a key. 924 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,880 Gimmicky or not, I think what I'm trying to do is teach. 925 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,240 I'm trying to get people stimulated by the excitement of knowledge 926 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:33,800 because knowledge is power. 927 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,480 Is that what you see yourself as, then - 928 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,560 a teacher rather than a presenter, historian, scientist or whatever? 929 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,040 That's all I've ever been. Yes, that's all I've ever been. 930 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,280 Art, philosophy, politics, music, literature 931 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,480 are interpretations of the world. 932 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,960 They tell you more about the guy who's talking 933 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,280 than about the world he's talking about. 934 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,080 Second-hand views of the world, 935 00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,960 made third-hand by your interpretation of them. 936 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,200 Things like that, as opposed to this. 937 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,240 Know what it is? 938 00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:08,400 It's a bunch of amino acids, 939 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,000 the stuff that goes to build up a worm or a geranium... 940 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,040 or you. 941 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,400 This stuff's easier to take, isn't it? 942 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,520 Understandable. It's got people in it. 943 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,840 This, scientific knowledge, is hard to take, 944 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,480 because it removes the reassuring crutches of opinion, ideology, 945 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,480 and leaves only what is demonstrably true about the world. 946 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,720 I find that wonderful. Yes. 947 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:39,280 And what's interesting about James Burke... 948 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,480 I personally, actually, for me, 949 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,560 he's the best, technically, the best science presenter I have seen, 950 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,320 as I remember. 951 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,120 We all have opinions on that. 952 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,440 But what's interesting about him, first of all, 953 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,960 he was an English lecturer, and you see that. 954 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,080 I'm going to show one of the films later, it's one of my choices, 955 00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,320 is one of James Burke's documentaries. 956 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,800 I actually disagree with some of what he says in the documentary 957 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,960 because I find it objectionably postmodern 958 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,600 and I don't like postmodernism at all. 959 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,640 No, he's a bit relativistic, isn't he? 960 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,840 Yeah, but he's a powerful intellect 961 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,720 and he offers his opinion. 962 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,560 What do you think? 963 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,920 We saw those clips there, it's different to what we see today. 964 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,560 Again, it's going back to that polemical style, 965 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,520 but it's his view. 966 00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,840 I think all of the communicators we've seen, 967 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,560 some of them are scientists, 968 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,960 some of them have a non-scientific background, 969 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,160 but I think of all them, he is my favourite, 970 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,000 and I think it's because 971 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,240 he seems to be having a conversation with his audience, 972 00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:48,240 and he's also not ashamed of getting into 973 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:50,960 interesting philosophical arguments 974 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,640 and describing interesting philosophical positions, 975 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,480 so I think it's great, yeah, I do like it. 976 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,480 But I agree with you, I don't think that just because you disagree 977 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:06,160 with some of what he says means that he's not a good communicator. 978 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,600 Do you remember Burke? Yes, big fan, like yourself. 979 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,480 He didn't act at all, as you were saying. 980 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,560 He was completely, wonderfully natural, 981 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,400 but had this tremendous intellect you always felt all the time. 982 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,760 But yet he could relate to the public, couldn't he? He simplified. 983 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,760 He never underestimated simplicity, did he? 984 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,640 And what do you think about his reaction there to that challenge? 985 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,400 I was watching it, thinking, "I'd welcome that." 986 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:29,800 I rarely... 987 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,160 We don't get the chance to sit in a studio 988 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,720 and take questions from people, and you must be the same as me. 989 00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:38,480 You have people who like your work and you have people who say... 990 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:39,880 As they were doing to James Burke, 991 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,400 it's almost impossible to imagine to James Burke, saying, 992 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,280 "You've dumbed this down, it's full of gimmicks." 993 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,480 Actually, to me now, when I get that kind of thing, it's about me 994 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,240 not being anywhere near as full of information in my programmes 995 00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:52,440 as James Burke's were. 996 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,680 It's interesting to see someone having a go at James. 997 00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,840 Would you welcome that? Do you get a lot of that? 998 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,440 Yes, I suppose it does tend to be 999 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:03,320 more criticism through social media, and some of it can be... 1000 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,480 I mean, I felt that was quite, in a way, nasty. Yes. 1001 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:11,360 I thought the young guy that was criticising James Burke 1002 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,200 was quite arrogant, actually, 1003 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,960 and also talking about him being gimmicky 1004 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,720 whilst wearing a cravat I thought was quite interesting! 1005 00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:21,360 Yeah, the confidence. 1006 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:26,280 In terms of criticism, that Burke hadn't thought about 1007 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,240 how he was getting his message across. And occasionally, 1008 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:31,880 I don't know whether you've had that but I've had certainly had 1009 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,800 those kind of criticisms where people say, "You haven't thought 1010 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,560 "about how this message is coming across 1011 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,600 "or how much content there is." 1012 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,640 And I don't think they realise 1013 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,240 quite how much goes into making a television documentary 1014 00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,320 and quite how much thought does go in, 1015 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,120 so even if they might not agree with the outcome of it, 1016 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,840 and think we have gone into too much detail or too little detail 1017 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,520 or it's too gimmicky or it's not gimmicky enough, it is important, 1018 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,080 I think, that people understand that thought has gone into it. 1019 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,840 It's a difficult challenge, isn't it? 1020 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,920 There's a large audience that you'd like to get to. 1021 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,000 I think it is actually easier to make extremely complicated 1022 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,240 scientific documentaries than it is to make one with broad appeal. Yes. 1023 00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:17,200 I think what's really brave about these series, though, is that they 1024 00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,920 are long series, and we don't see much of that going on nowadays so... 1025 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,800 13 episodes was the standard form. 1026 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,480 When I watch those older clips, 1027 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,840 I do envy the freedom of James Burke 1028 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,880 and of Bronowski and of Sagan. 1029 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:36,200 And, actually, I think that's probably our fault, 1030 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,720 because when I watch that, I think, "I COULD do more of that." 1031 00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:42,560 No-one's going to stop me. 1032 00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,200 I do think there are things we can learn from looking at these 1033 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,600 documentaries and partly by turning the lens on ourselves. 1034 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,880 I'm also slightly concerned that we've had a lot of very good 1035 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,680 science programming, especially on the BBC, in recent years, 1036 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,920 and I really hope that we're not riding the crest of a wave 1037 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,400 and we're going to start dipping down again. 1038 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,360 You know, there's been an impact in terms of children 1039 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,680 being interested in science, and applications to university, 1040 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,720 particularly to study things like physics, 1041 00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:11,720 and so I don't want that to change, 1042 00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:14,440 I don't want this to be a cyclical phenomenon. 1043 00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,240 Yes, we don't want it to go out of fashion 1044 00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:18,640 and gardening programmes to come back in again, 1045 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,680 or home improvement to make a comeback! 1046 00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,440 I do think we need to link in with other media better as well, 1047 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,720 so I think that we probably need to view television programmes 1048 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:31,440 as something which light the fire, 1049 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,120 which get people interested, and they always have been that, 1050 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,440 so there have been books to read beyond Carl Sagan's Cosmos, 1051 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,600 and we should be linking much more effectively 1052 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,720 and using the internet more effectively and linking people 1053 00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:47,640 into original sources of scientific research as well. 1054 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,280 Yeah, I agree with you completely. 1055 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,480 I think television should be seen as part of the education system. 1056 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,440 In particular, the BBC, because what is it? 1057 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,200 It's a publicly funded broadcaster. Absolutely. 1058 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,080 I am a child of the BBC. Absolutely. 1059 00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,840 I think the answer to your question is 1060 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,720 I don't see how the wave can drop as long as the BBC remembers 1061 00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:08,720 that its job is to keep... 1062 00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:12,840 science, but also history and all academic disciplines 1063 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:14,480 up at the top of the wave. 1064 00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,240 Are you optimistic about our trajectory 1065 00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:19,200 at the moment as a civilisation? 1066 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:20,520 I do think it's interesting, 1067 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,720 particularly when we watch episode one of Cosmos this evening, 1068 00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,120 you'll see that it's suffused with the.. 1069 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,600 It's not long after the Cuban Missile Crisis, 1070 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,440 it's right at the heart of the Cold War, 1071 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,360 and you'll see there's a darkness to it, there's a sense of threat 1072 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,120 to it, and Sagan almost pleading with the audience, 1073 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:37,440 "just this tiny speck", 1074 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,000 and he was always referring to the armies and the generals 1075 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,680 that march around on this speck, claiming parts of it temporarily. 1076 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:49,080 We don't see that much any more, perhaps because we feel more secure, 1077 00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,640 but do you think we're on the right trajectory? 1078 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,800 I think so, and I think that when you look at the history of science 1079 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,640 together with the history of society, 1080 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,840 that, you know, very clearly what we see 1081 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,120 is the transformative power of science. 1082 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,600 If you look at the whole trajectory, I think what you can do is, 1083 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,840 with hindsight, look back on it and say, 1084 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,600 "Actually, "what we have done, using science, 1085 00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,640 "is to improve human life immeasurably." 1086 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,920 We have extended our lives, 1087 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,760 we have improved the quality of our lives, 1088 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,520 we have drastically reduced childhood mortality 1089 00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,960 in developed countries where we can get the science 1090 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,120 and use it to its best effect. 1091 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,480 And I think that then we have a moral responsibility 1092 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:33,880 to carry on doing that. 1093 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,800 It hasn't stopped. We can carry on improving life. 1094 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,720 I personally feel that television, 1095 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,440 because it's the most important cultural medium, 1096 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,720 in the sense that it reaches the widest number of people, 1097 00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,160 then I think it has a responsibility 1098 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,760 to say the things that you have just said, quite loudly. 1099 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,800 Do you think... 1100 00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,200 First of all, do you think it does have a responsibility 1101 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,400 and do you think it takes that responsibility seriously enough? 1102 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,000 It has a huge responsibility because, you know, still in this 1103 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:09,000 era of the internet, television is an extremely powerful tool. 1104 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,800 As a scientist, I know about my own narrow field 1105 00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,360 but I rely on television to tell me, to share with me, 1106 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,200 the stories from the rest of science. 1107 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,080 Well, all that remains is for me to thank Brian Blessed. 1108 00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,160 Thank you, Brian. 1109 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,800 And Alice. And we've come to a conclusion, I think, 1110 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,520 which is that we need more science and more science fiction 1111 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,000 on television, and we pledge to make it happen. 1112 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,760 Good night. 1113 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,960 # Science is real 1114 00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,760 # Science is real 1115 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:45,440 # Science is re-e-e-eal 1116 00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:53,840 # Science is real. # 1117 00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,960 GORDON'S ALIVE! 1118 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,720 Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd