1
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,832
Frank, the problem is all new Prime Ministers
want to cut either taxes or public expenditure.

2
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,468
Thank you. That's what Hacker wants, too.

3
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,710
Politicians are like children.

4
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,590
You can't just give them what they want.
It only encourages them!

5
00:00:54,759 --> 00:00:57,514
But let's be clear about this, Humphrey.

6
00:00:58,121 --> 00:01:02,512
The entire system hinges on you
as Cabinet Secretary controlling the PM

7
00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:06,911
and on me as Permanent Secretary
at the Treasury controlling the Chancellor.

8
00:01:07,081 --> 00:01:08,638
- Right?
- Right.

9
00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:13,509
And on both of us keeping an agreeable tension
between them, mistrust, hostility.

10
00:01:13,719 --> 00:01:17,507
Mind you, I think they'd manage that all right
even without us.

11
00:01:17,679 --> 00:01:22,674
The Chancellor will never forgive the Prime
Minister for beating him to Number 10

12
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,990
and the Prime Minister
will never trust the Chancellor.

13
00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:29,787
- One never trusts anyone one has deceived.
- Perhaps not.

14
00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:33,031
But tax cuts unite them. They get them both votes.

15
00:01:33,239 --> 00:01:38,028
Yes, but surely this tax cut is contingent
upon the Prime Minister's fantasy

16
00:01:38,198 --> 00:01:41,590
about cancelling Trident
and switching to conventional forces.

17
00:01:41,799 --> 00:01:46,429
Nevertheless, he is giving away
£1.5 billion of our money!

18
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:52,037
It's unthinkable, even if only proposals. I had
a real job getting the Chancellor to oppose it.

19
00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:54,230
How did you do it?

20
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,028
I used the one about our needing the money
for hospitals, schools and old people.

21
00:01:59,198 --> 00:02:02,192
- The kidney machine gambit.
- The caring Chancellor (!)

22
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,868
- Yes, that one.
- It usually works.

23
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,555
But would a tax cut matter all that much?
It's only £1.5 billion.

24
00:02:09,718 --> 00:02:14,633
I agree, it's not much in itself. My worry
is about you letting it get through so soon.

25
00:02:16,198 --> 00:02:18,714
If I were in your shoes at the Treasury,

26
00:02:18,879 --> 00:02:23,633
I'd be much more worried about the state
of the economy, low productivity.

27
00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,676
That's not our fault.

28
00:02:26,839 --> 00:02:31,071
It's the British worker - fundamentally lazy,
wants something for nothing.

29
00:02:31,238 --> 00:02:36,234
The figures for absenteeism are going up and up.
Nobody wants to do an honest day's work.

30
00:02:36,399 --> 00:02:39,072
- Shocking! I must rush.
- Busy afternoon?

31
00:02:39,278 --> 00:02:41,919
Yes, indeed. I gather England are 70 for 3.

32
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,988
(APPLAUSE)

33
00:02:50,399 --> 00:02:52,787
Whoa, whoa! Easy does it, Gerald.

34
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,232
Plenty more where that came from.
Cheers. To the Civil Service!

35
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,758
To the British Tobacco Group and its chairman.

36
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:02,911
Thank you.

37
00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,399
Ah!

38
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,073
I do love a good afternoon's cricket.

39
00:03:09,799 --> 00:03:13,792
You know, you chaps at BTG
are national benefactors really.

40
00:03:13,959 --> 00:03:15,950
We like to think so.

41
00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,591
You know, Gerald, I've got a small favour
to ask on behalf of the Royal Opera House.

42
00:03:21,758 --> 00:03:26,274
Now, as you know, Covent Garden
is more or less run from the Cabinet Office.

43
00:03:27,159 --> 00:03:32,792
But I'm told that one or more productions
are threatened next year, lack of funds.

44
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,832
Well, I've got the Minister for Sport
coming along this afternoon.

45
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,993
I know he wants to twist my arm on behalf
of Wimbledon or Brands Hatch or something.

46
00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:44,754
Covent Garden... We'll see what we can do.

47
00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:47,911
Oh, I don't know where we'd all be without you.

48
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,033
Tell me, have you ever invited Peter Thorne?

49
00:03:51,198 --> 00:03:54,397
- The Minister of Health?
- You always included them.

50
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,796
This one's been got at by the anti-smoking lobby.

51
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,069
Oh, silly man!

52
00:04:00,278 --> 00:04:04,066
Very silly. He hasn't got
much clout in Whitehall, has he?

53
00:04:04,278 --> 00:04:06,508
None at all. He's just a minister.

54
00:04:07,758 --> 00:04:09,750
Good shot!

55
00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:13,430
Was he out?

56
00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:18,757
Humphrey, this paper says that
if we cancel Trident and bring in conscription,

57
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,230
we shall have £1.5 billion for tax cuts,
and what do I find?

58
00:04:22,439 --> 00:04:26,432
- What do you find, Prime Minister?
- The Chancellor opposes me.

59
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,391
A great chance to be popular with the voters
and he says no. Doesn't that surprise you?

60
00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,192
No.

61
00:04:33,679 --> 00:04:35,831
Why doesn't it surprise you?

62
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,158
He's advised by the Treasury
and they don't believe in giving money back.

63
00:04:40,319 --> 00:04:44,790
- It's not theirs. It's the taxpayers'.
- That's not the view the Treasury takes.

64
00:04:45,401 --> 00:04:48,754
- Not once they've got it.
- But if they don't need it?

65
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,798
- Sorry?
- If they don't need it.

66
00:04:51,961 --> 00:04:55,749
- Taxation isn't about what you need.
- What is it about?

67
00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,996
The Treasury doesn't work out what they need
to spend and then think how to raise the money.

68
00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:04,191
What DOES it do?

69
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,354
They pitch for as much as they think they can
get away with, then think what to spend it on.

70
00:05:09,961 --> 00:05:13,271
If you start giving money back
because you don't need it,

71
00:05:13,441 --> 00:05:16,273
you're breaking with centuries of tradition.

72
00:05:16,441 --> 00:05:20,434
- What would happen to the British Navy?
- We still need a navy.

73
00:05:20,641 --> 00:05:25,634
We have four capital ships, so we need only
four admirals and one Admiral of the Fleet.

74
00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:28,639
- How many Admirals have we got?
- 60.

75
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,508
The Treasury's the most powerful department
as it controls all the money.

76
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,434
If you take away its money,
you take away its power, so they resist.

77
00:05:37,641 --> 00:05:41,838
- How will the Treasury agree to tax cuts?
- Get the Chancellor to agree.

78
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,112
- How will the Chancellor agree?
- Get the Treasury to agree.

79
00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:48,949
- This is impossible.
- Yes, Prime Minister, it is impossible.

80
00:05:49,158 --> 00:05:53,915
- We must be able to force the Treasury's hand.
- Yes, by forcing the Chancellor's hand.

81
00:05:54,121 --> 00:05:57,954
- How do I force the Chancellor's hand?
- By forcing the Treasury's hand.

82
00:05:58,158 --> 00:06:01,436
Can't YOU persuade the Chancellor?
He's your Cabinet colleague.

83
00:06:01,641 --> 00:06:05,269
That's the point.
I need help from somebody who's on my side.

84
00:06:06,401 --> 00:06:08,869
The Minister of State at the DHSS is here.

85
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,670
- Show him in. Thank you, Humphrey.
- Thank you, Prime Minister.

86
00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:15,833
- Dr Thorne, Prime Minister.
- Peter, come in.

87
00:06:16,879 --> 00:06:18,872
Sit down.

88
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,951
Now, you wanted to talk to me about...?

89
00:06:22,879 --> 00:06:25,473
- Cigarettes.
- Ah, yes.

90
00:06:25,641 --> 00:06:28,598
- You read my paper?
- Yes, absolutely.

91
00:06:28,759 --> 00:06:30,956
How did you react?

92
00:06:31,121 --> 00:06:34,829
Well, I...wonder if you could summarise it
in your own words.

93
00:06:37,319 --> 00:06:39,959
Those WERE my own words.

94
00:06:40,641 --> 00:06:43,312
Yes, yes, exactly, of course.

95
00:06:43,521 --> 00:06:49,072
But the Prime Minister often finds that a brief
summary focuses on the salient points.

96
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,629
Salient points, precisely.

97
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,675
Well, briefly, I'm proposing that the government
should take action to eliminate smoking,

98
00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:01,595
a complete ban
on all cigarette sponsorship and advertising,

99
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,157
£50 million to be spent on anti-smoking publicity,

100
00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:10,441
a ban on smoking in all public places and
progressive tax rises over the next five years

101
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,389
until a packet of 20 costs about the same
as a bottle of whisky.

102
00:07:16,441 --> 00:07:18,715
Isn't that rather drastic?

103
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,836
Absolutely. It should reduce smoking
by at least 80%, 90% if we're lucky

104
00:07:24,001 --> 00:07:26,561
and drive tobacco companies out of business.

105
00:07:27,401 --> 00:07:31,838
Yes. Well, Peter, of course,
you know I agree with you basically.

106
00:07:32,001 --> 00:07:34,355
Smoking should be stopped.

107
00:07:34,521 --> 00:07:37,592
No question. And we will stop it in due course.

108
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,949
At the appropriate juncture,
in the fullness of time.

109
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,032
- You mean forget it?
- No, absolutely not.

110
00:07:47,081 --> 00:07:50,470
But we must be realists.
You and I weren't born yesterday.

111
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,309
- No, and we didn't die yesterday.
- No. What?

112
00:07:55,401 --> 00:07:59,997
300 people did prematurely
as a result of smoking.

113
00:08:00,158 --> 00:08:03,039
100,000 deaths a year at least.

114
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,233
It's appalling,
but you know what the Treasury would say?

115
00:08:07,441 --> 00:08:11,753
They'd say that smoking brings in
£4 billion a year in revenue.

116
00:08:11,961 --> 00:08:15,715
- You can't beat the Treasury.
- Not with financial arguments.

117
00:08:15,879 --> 00:08:18,348
But this is a moral argument.

118
00:08:18,521 --> 00:08:20,512
Yes, but even...

119
00:08:21,521 --> 00:08:26,959
Wait a minute. I've got an idea.
This could be a way to beat the Treasury.

120
00:08:27,158 --> 00:08:30,516
- You mean you'll support me?
- You've made your point.

121
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,194
We'll give it a try.
I'll even read your report. Again!

122
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,949
This could be very interesting.
Thank you very much indeed.

123
00:08:40,158 --> 00:08:42,549
But will you support me?

124
00:08:42,719 --> 00:08:44,995
Yeah, well, not publicly.

125
00:08:45,158 --> 00:08:50,154
It would undermine my position, undermine
the argument if I supported you from the start.

126
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,511
I have to be seen as the impartial judge
swayed by the force of the argument.

127
00:08:55,719 --> 00:08:57,711
Yes, I see that.

128
00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:01,668
But off the record,
I'd like to see this pushed very hard indeed.

129
00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:05,719
Make some speeches on it.
Peter, thank you very much indeed.

130
00:09:08,199 --> 00:09:12,670
Thank you for your cigarette paper...
your paper on cigarettes.

131
00:09:15,598 --> 00:09:18,067
- Is this serious?
- What do you mean?

132
00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:20,348
It's always been the practice

133
00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:24,830
to discourage anti-smoking speeches
by ministers and not to distribute them.

134
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,951
Well, I want Peter's speeches distributed.
I want everybody to know.

135
00:09:29,158 --> 00:09:34,394
Yes, Prime Minister. Do you think you will win
this one? The tobacco lobby is very powerful.

136
00:09:34,598 --> 00:09:39,832
Well, some you win, some you lose, Bernard.
This one I shall definitely lose.

137
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,553
Then why?

138
00:09:41,719 --> 00:09:45,712
If you were the Treasury, would you rather do
without £1.5 billion in tax cuts

139
00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:48,235
or £4 billion in lost tobacco tax revenue?

140
00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:50,708
- The tax cuts.
- (PHONE RINGS)

141
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,389
Exactly. That's what I want
and that's what I shall get.

142
00:09:54,598 --> 00:09:57,192
- Can Sir Humphrey have a word?
- Of course.

143
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,429
Yes, come in, please.

144
00:10:02,438 --> 00:10:04,828
- Prime Minister...
- Humphrey.

145
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,308
Did you have an interesting chat with Dr Thorne?

146
00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:11,237
Yes. He proposed the elimination of smoking.

147
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,877
By a campaign of mass hypnosis perhaps!

148
00:10:18,839 --> 00:10:23,961
By raising tobacco taxes sky high
and simultaneously banning all advertising.

149
00:10:26,598 --> 00:10:31,197
- I think his position is admirably moral.
- Moral perhaps, but extremely silly.

150
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,317
No man in his right mind
could contemplate such a proposal.

151
00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:37,714
I'm contemplating it.

152
00:10:37,879 --> 00:10:42,156
Yes, of course, Prime Minister.
Please don't misunderstand me.

153
00:10:42,319 --> 00:10:47,313
It is quite right that you should CONTEMPLATE
all proposals that come from your government,

154
00:10:47,478 --> 00:10:49,947
but no sane man would ever SUPPORT it.

155
00:10:50,158 --> 00:10:53,674
- I'm supporting it.
- And quite right too, Prime Minister.

156
00:10:53,839 --> 00:10:59,312
The only problem is that the tax on tobacco is
a major source of revenue for the government.

157
00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:01,953
And a major source of death from diseases.

158
00:11:02,158 --> 00:11:06,277
Yes, but no definite causative link
has ever been proved, has it?

159
00:11:06,478 --> 00:11:09,391
- The statistics...
- You can prove anything with statistics.

160
00:11:09,598 --> 00:11:12,237
- Even the truth.
- Yes... No!

161
00:11:12,438 --> 00:11:19,116
It says here, ''Smoking-related diseases
cost the NHS £165 million a year.''

162
00:11:19,319 --> 00:11:21,708
Yes, but we've been into that.

163
00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:26,670
It has been shown that if those extra
100,000 people had lived to a ripe old age,

164
00:11:26,839 --> 00:11:31,072
they would have cost us even more
in pensions and social security

165
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,707
than they did in medical treatment.

166
00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:37,156
So financially speaking, it's unquestionably better

167
00:11:37,319 --> 00:11:40,516
that they continue to die at about the present rate.

168
00:11:41,961 --> 00:11:46,076
''When cholera killed 30,000 people in 1833,
we got the Public Health Act.

169
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,232
''When smog killed 2,500 people in 1952,
we got the Clean Air Act.''

170
00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:54,996
A commercial drug kills half a dozen people
and we get it withdrawn from sale.

171
00:11:55,598 --> 00:11:59,514
Cigarettes kill 100,000 people a year
and what do we get?

172
00:11:59,719 --> 00:12:02,357
£4 billion a year.

173
00:12:02,558 --> 00:12:07,031
25,000 jobs in the tobacco industry,
a flourishing cigarette export business,

174
00:12:07,199 --> 00:12:09,554
helping our balance of trade,

175
00:12:09,719 --> 00:12:13,632
250,000 jobs related to tobacco -
newsagents, packaging, transport...

176
00:12:13,839 --> 00:12:18,310
- These figures are just guesses.
- No, they're government st... They're facts.

177
00:12:20,719 --> 00:12:24,473
So your statistics are facts
and my facts are merely statistics?

178
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,877
I'm on your side. I'm merely giving you
some arguments you'll encounter.

179
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,958
Humphrey, I'm so glad to know
we'll have support such as yours.

180
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,589
It will be pointed out that the tobacco
companies are great sponsors of sport.

181
00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:42,355
Where would the BBC sports programmes be
if cigarette companies couldn't advert...

182
00:12:42,558 --> 00:12:45,630
couldn't SPONSOR the events that they televise?

183
00:12:46,719 --> 00:12:49,187
We're talking about 100,000 deaths a year.

184
00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:53,996
Yes, but cigarette taxes pay for a third
of the cost of the National Health Service.

185
00:12:54,158 --> 00:12:57,357
We're saving many more lives
than we otherwise could

186
00:12:57,519 --> 00:13:02,036
because of those smokers who voluntarily
lay down their lives for their friends.

187
00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:05,746
Smokers are national benefactors.

188
00:13:06,879 --> 00:13:08,871
So long as they live!

189
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,190
Not that any definite causal link
has ever been proved.

190
00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:18,156
It's time for your next Cabinet committee,
then the Minister of Sport wants an urgent word.

191
00:13:18,319 --> 00:13:20,786
- What about?
- Sponsorship.

192
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,549
Who tipped him off?
He's one of the tobacco lobby.

193
00:13:25,759 --> 00:13:28,433
A member of YOUR government?

194
00:13:28,598 --> 00:13:33,514
Yes, he's Minister for Sport. He has a vested
interest. He's also an MP for Nottingham.

195
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,147
Did you tell him? How did he know?

196
00:13:36,319 --> 00:13:38,833
The grapevine perhaps. Prime Minister...

197
00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:42,394
Tell the minister I'll see him at 2.30.

198
00:13:42,558 --> 00:13:47,031
- With pleasure, Prime Minister.
- Not with pleasure, but I'll see him anyway.

199
00:13:48,558 --> 00:13:51,027
The Minister for Sport, Prime Minister.

200
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:53,794
Oh, Leslie, my dear fellow. Hi.

201
00:13:56,279 --> 00:13:58,746
Do you mind if I smoke?

202
00:14:00,478 --> 00:14:02,993
Prime Minister, it's about the rumour

203
00:14:03,158 --> 00:14:07,232
that you intend to make a personal attack
on the tobacco industry.

204
00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:09,993
- I hadn't heard that rumour.
- It's not true?

205
00:14:10,158 --> 00:14:13,197
The Minister for Health is considering the matter.

206
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,748
There's no smoke without fire.

207
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,991
You'd be consulted.
As Minister for Sport, you have an interest.

208
00:14:20,199 --> 00:14:22,190
Never mind sport.

209
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:28,275
There are marginal seats in Bristol, Nottingham,
Glasgow, Basildon and Northern Ireland,

210
00:14:28,438 --> 00:14:30,634
all with tobacco workers.

211
00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:35,076
I've got 4,000 tobacco workers
in my constituency. What about my seat?

212
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,674
(COUGHS WHEEZILY)

213
00:14:38,279 --> 00:14:40,395
What about your lungs?

214
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,911
My lungs are fine.

215
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,871
He doesn't breathe through his seat.

216
00:14:47,399 --> 00:14:49,993
Oh, your seat, I see, I'm sorry.

217
00:14:50,158 --> 00:14:54,790
Thank you, Bernard. I see the difficulty,
but if something is right for the country,

218
00:14:54,961 --> 00:14:57,428
surely the government must pursue it.

219
00:14:57,598 --> 00:15:02,389
The government must do what's right,
but not if it affects marginal constituencies.

220
00:15:02,558 --> 00:15:05,312
- There is a limit.
- No decision has been taken.

221
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:08,192
For the good of the party, you can't do this.

222
00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:12,394
Weren't you a paid consultant
to the British Tobacco Group?

223
00:15:13,158 --> 00:15:17,790
Of course, the fact that the BTG
did pay me a small retainer,

224
00:15:17,961 --> 00:15:20,348
it's totally beside the point.

225
00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:26,036
They're a very generous corporation with a strong
sense of responsibility to the community.

226
00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:28,794
Look at all the money they give to sport!

227
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,466
They just do it to sell more cigarettes.

228
00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:34,473
No, they do it as a service to the community.

229
00:15:34,679 --> 00:15:40,312
Oh, that's all right, then. They can go on
giving the money anonymously if they like.

230
00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:42,987
Well, I'm sure they'd be happy to,

231
00:15:43,158 --> 00:15:47,630
provided they could publicise the fact
that they were doing it anonymously.

232
00:15:47,799 --> 00:15:52,714
Is it true that Peter Thorne is also trying
to change the government health warning?

233
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,397
Is it?

234
00:15:54,558 --> 00:16:00,031
He's proposing something like ''Dying of
lung cancer can seriously damage your health''.

235
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,230
It is not true!

236
00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:04,866
If we do nothing, in the next ten years,

237
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,190
in this country
we'll have one million premature deaths.

238
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:10,866
Yes, but evenly spread.

239
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,754
Not just in marginal constituencies.

240
00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:20,313
Listen, Jim, there is no conclusive proof
of any causal link

241
00:16:20,478 --> 00:16:22,629
between smoking and...

242
00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:25,154
(COUGHS)

243
00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,107
We at the DHSS
are profoundly worried about smoking.

244
00:16:30,319 --> 00:16:34,790
And we agree it's our duty to help
the Prime Minister achieve his objective,

245
00:16:34,961 --> 00:16:39,350
but with a third of the voters as smokers,
I can't raise taxes too high.

246
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:45,197
The Chancellor won't commit electoral suicide
and the inflationary effect is considerable.

247
00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:47,833
There is a moral principle involved.

248
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,156
Moral principle, yes.

249
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:56,036
We understand the PM's concern. In fact,
we earnestly believe in the moral principle.

250
00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,312
But where £4 billion of revenue is at stake,

251
00:17:00,478 --> 00:17:03,471
I think we should have
to consider very carefully

252
00:17:03,639 --> 00:17:06,153
whether we have the right to indulge ourselves

253
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,471
in the rather selfish luxury
of pursuing moral principles.

254
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,755
Where would the arts be without tobacco
sponsorship? At the mercy of the Arts Council.

255
00:17:15,921 --> 00:17:21,677
Exactly. Then those silly pressure groups
and fanatics like the Royal College of Physicians!

256
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,278
Fanatics!

257
00:17:23,439 --> 00:17:26,432
They want the government
to have a policy on the matter.

258
00:17:26,639 --> 00:17:29,631
It would be different
if the government were a team,

259
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,269
but in fact they're a loose confederation
of warring tribes.

260
00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:40,470
If only the PM could meet the tobacco people,
he could see what really nice chaps they were.

261
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,796
And genuinely concerned about the health risks.

262
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,756
There can't be anything wrong with them. BTG
have an ex-Permanent Secretary on their board.

263
00:17:49,961 --> 00:17:53,951
- And could well have more.
- In the fullness of time.

264
00:17:54,961 --> 00:17:59,192
I think we ought to raise some questions
about your minister, Ian.

265
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:03,238
What does he know about the subject?
Peter Thorne is only a doctor.

266
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,913
His sole purpose is keeping people alive!

267
00:18:06,121 --> 00:18:08,112
Must be biased.

268
00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:12,750
Seeing your patients die
must emotionally distort your judgement.

269
00:18:12,921 --> 00:18:17,675
It's very understandable,
but a great handicap to cool decision-taking.

270
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,157
Very true,
but can we find something a bit stronger?

271
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:25,750
Frank, I think the crucial argument
is that we're living in a free country.

272
00:18:25,921 --> 00:18:28,433
We must be free to make our own decisions.

273
00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:32,592
Government shouldn't be a nursemaid.
We don't want the nanny state.

274
00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:34,113
- Very good.
- Excellent.

275
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,430
The only problem is that is also the argument

276
00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:41,354
for legalising the sale
of marijuana, heroin, arsenic and gelignite.

277
00:18:41,558 --> 00:18:45,189
Maybe that's a good idea
if we put a big enough tax on them.

278
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,313
- Politically difficult.
- Pity.

279
00:18:48,519 --> 00:18:49,999
Yes.

280
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,753
Got it!

281
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,238
When the Prime Minister was
Minister for Administrative Affairs,

282
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,837
I used to get him to accompany me on regular
visits to Lord's, Wimbledon and Glyndebourne

283
00:19:04,041 --> 00:19:06,235
as a guest of BTG,

284
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,680
so he's thoroughly implicated
in receiving hospitality worth hundreds,

285
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,229
possibly thousands from them.

286
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,314
Now, if that were to leak...
shocking though a leak would be...

287
00:19:19,479 --> 00:19:22,392
- Oh, shocking.
- Shocking.

288
00:19:23,121 --> 00:19:26,715
It'd be profoundly embarrassing
for the Prime Minister.

289
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,712
I can't think why I didn't think of it before.

290
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,872
Nor can I.

291
00:19:35,921 --> 00:19:38,389
- Well, Bernard.
- Well, Prime Minister.

292
00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:41,159
Very well. Things are going very well indeed.

293
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,351
Oh, good.

294
00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:46,512
I've got the Treasury on the run and the Chancellor.

295
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,148
Is that good? He's in your own government.

296
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,349
Of course it's good. They've got to learn
to come to heel and learn to co-operate.

297
00:19:54,558 --> 00:19:58,599
- What do you mean, co-operate?
- I mean obey my commands!

298
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,278
I see.

299
00:20:00,479 --> 00:20:03,996
That's what ''co-operate'' means
when you're Prime Minister.

300
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:08,791
Why are these tax cuts in your interest?
It's your government too.

301
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,791
Bernard, it's simple. Cutting taxes by
£1.5 billion is going to win us masses of votes.

302
00:20:13,961 --> 00:20:18,829
My ministers are interested in getting money
for their departments, not in supporting me.

303
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,787
I'm using my support for Peter Thorne
as leverage on the Treasury.

304
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,720
- Your loyal support?
- Precisely.

305
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,314
In order to get THEIR loyal support.

306
00:20:28,479 --> 00:20:32,758
After you get the tax cut, you will withdraw
your support from Peter Thorne?

307
00:20:32,961 --> 00:20:36,191
- Bernard, how can you be so cynical?
- (PHONE RINGS)

308
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,032
I shall simply rearrange my priorities.

309
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,795
Sir Humphrey's waiting to see you outside.

310
00:20:41,961 --> 00:20:44,110
Send him in at once.

311
00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:48,273
Yes, Prime Minister. Your word is my co-operation.

312
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:55,509
- Humphrey!
- Prime Minister.

313
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,639
- Everything all right?
- Everything is very far from all right.

314
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,354
- What's the trouble?
- Your anti-smoking legislation.

315
00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:04,951
What about it?

316
00:21:05,121 --> 00:21:08,157
Notwithstanding the fact that your proposal

317
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,996
could encompass certain concomitant benefits
of a peripheral relevance,

318
00:21:12,159 --> 00:21:16,153
there is a countervailing consideration
of infinitely superior magnitude,

319
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,198
involving your personal complicity
and corroborative malfeasance,

320
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:25,354
with the consequence that the taint and stigma
of your former associations and diversions

321
00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:29,273
could irredeemably
and irretrievably invalidate your position

322
00:21:29,439 --> 00:21:34,229
and culminate in public revelations
and recriminations of a profoundly embarrassing

323
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,913
and ultimately indefensible character.

324
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,866
Perhaps I could have a précis of that.

325
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,909
- There's nicotine on your hands.
- What do you mean?

326
00:21:47,121 --> 00:21:50,999
All the hospitality
that we've enjoyed at BTG's expense.

327
00:21:51,159 --> 00:21:54,913
Champagne receptions,
the best seats at sporting and cultural events.

328
00:21:55,121 --> 00:21:59,351
- What's the problem?
- The tobacco companies may tell the press.

329
00:21:59,558 --> 00:22:04,555
So? I've had drinks at the Soviet embassy.
That doesn't make me a Russian spy.

330
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,192
Oh... Well... Oh.

331
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,988
- Does it?
- Well, no.

332
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:14,675
Let them do their worst. Anything else?

333
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,197
Well, Prime Minister,
there is another vital point to bear in mind.

334
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,874
A lot of eminent people, influential people

335
00:22:22,041 --> 00:22:25,920
argue that such legislation
would be a blow against freedom of choice.

336
00:22:26,121 --> 00:22:31,317
Rubbish! I'm not banning smoking. Does every
tax rise represent a blow against freedom?

337
00:22:31,519 --> 00:22:33,988
Well, it depends how big the tax rise is.

338
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,831
Fascinating! Does 20 pence
represent a blow against freedom?

339
00:22:38,041 --> 00:22:42,032
- Prime Minister...
- 25 pence? 30 pence? 31?

340
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,273
Is something a blow against freedom simply
because it can seriously damage your wealth?

341
00:22:47,479 --> 00:22:52,599
I must warn you of the difficulties.
I foresee all sorts of unforeseen problems.

342
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,392
Such as?

343
00:22:54,558 --> 00:22:57,756
If I could foresee them,
they wouldn't be unforeseen.

344
00:22:59,921 --> 00:23:02,639
You just said you COULD foresee them.

345
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,791
If we could set up
an inter-departmental committee,

346
00:23:05,961 --> 00:23:09,396
a Royal Commission,
perhaps a Treasury Committee...

347
00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,592
- Don't talk to me about the Treasury!
- Why not?

348
00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:16,753
The Treasury are blocking my plans
for a £1.5 billion tax cut.

349
00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:20,875
If only they could be more...flexible.

350
00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:25,759
Oh...

351
00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:31,831
Well, I don't think they're fully committed
on that other matter yet.

352
00:23:32,041 --> 00:23:33,554
Really?

353
00:23:34,639 --> 00:23:38,269
Absolutely not.
Oh, no, I'm sure they could find a way.

354
00:23:38,479 --> 00:23:40,470
Could they?

355
00:23:40,639 --> 00:23:45,157
The only stumbling block would be
if your anti-smoking proposals went through,

356
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,471
they'd be too busy with those
to find a way to help with the other cuts.

357
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,753
Well, of course, my anti-smoking proposals,
important though they are,

358
00:23:53,921 --> 00:23:57,470
don't have nearly such a high priority as defence.

359
00:23:58,159 --> 00:23:59,673
Ah.

360
00:24:00,479 --> 00:24:02,948
The Minister of State for Health is here.

361
00:24:03,121 --> 00:24:08,113
Prime Minister, if I might have one or two
minutes to make some phone calls. Thank you.

362
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:10,349
Show him in, Bernard.

363
00:24:11,639 --> 00:24:14,836
- Dr Thorne.
- Peter, what can I do for you?

364
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,467
I've just had some very exciting news.

365
00:24:17,639 --> 00:24:22,316
We've got full backing from the BMA
and eight top scientific and medical colleges.

366
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:25,750
Marvellous.

367
00:24:26,479 --> 00:24:29,471
But your legislation
can't be put through immediately.

368
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,233
It is announced as government policy within
three months, with a White Paper in a year.

369
00:24:35,439 --> 00:24:41,072
Yes, since we spoke, I've encountered
a few problems. The Treasury, you know.

370
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,479
- Can't be anything you didn't know already?
- Yes. I mean no... Well, yes.

371
00:24:45,639 --> 00:24:48,153
Peter, it's not as simple as you think.

372
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,787
Jim, I really am serious about this.

373
00:24:50,961 --> 00:24:55,476
It's the one really important and worthwhile
thing I believe I can do in politics.

374
00:24:55,639 --> 00:24:59,997
If you stall it, I'll have to resign. And say why.

375
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,990
Excuse me, Prime Minister. Could Sir Humphrey
see you urgently just for a moment?

376
00:25:05,159 --> 00:25:08,153
- Would you mind waiting outside, Peter?
- Of course.

377
00:25:11,439 --> 00:25:13,796
Prime Minister, it's quite all right.

378
00:25:13,961 --> 00:25:19,113
The Treasury have looked at your proposal again
and they can encompass your tax cut,

379
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:22,590
provided no work is needed
on the anti-smoking proposal.

380
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,314
That's fine, but there is another complication.

381
00:25:25,479 --> 00:25:27,948
Peter Thorne is going to resign if I drop it,

382
00:25:28,121 --> 00:25:32,634
go to the press and have me condemned
by all the doctors and scientists in Britain.

383
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,278
Oh...

384
00:25:34,439 --> 00:25:35,920
Help!

385
00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:41,831
You still have that government vacancy
in the Treasury?

386
00:25:42,558 --> 00:25:46,872
You mean...? It's a very big promotion,
a very rapid one.

387
00:25:47,081 --> 00:25:49,800
Nevertheless, for a very able minister.

388
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,470
Bernard, get Peter back in here and then get on
to the Department of the Environment.

389
00:25:55,639 --> 00:25:58,073
Get Leslie Potts over here at once.

390
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,028
Prime Minister, I think I'll just, erm...
If you'll excuse me.

391
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,191
Dr Thorne.

392
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,916
Peter, I've just remembered
we still have that vacancy at the Treasury.

393
00:26:10,081 --> 00:26:12,595
I've been racking my brains how to fill it,

394
00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:16,037
but your work on this paper
has impressed me enormously.

395
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,708
You're not trying to get rid of me?

396
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,679
Definitely not. Quite the reverse.

397
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,872
It's a terrific step up.

398
00:26:24,081 --> 00:26:26,470
But thoroughly merited.

399
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,639
How can I take it if it means dropping my bill?

400
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,354
Peter, sit down.

401
00:26:32,558 --> 00:26:35,198
Let me be absolutely honest with you.

402
00:26:37,121 --> 00:26:42,592
This legislation would have been...would be...
will be very difficult to get through.

403
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,192
The Treasury is the stumbling block,
not the Department of Health.

404
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,875
It'll take longer,
but if you were inside learning the ropes,

405
00:26:51,041 --> 00:26:56,317
we'd have a much better chance of a watertight,
foolproof Act when it gets to the statute book.

406
00:26:56,479 --> 00:26:59,756
- Believe me.
- So my proposals aren't dropped?

407
00:27:00,439 --> 00:27:02,749
Absolutely not.

408
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,750
- OK. I'll take the Treasury job.
- Good.

409
00:27:06,961 --> 00:27:09,555
Thanks a lot. Goodbye, Prime Minister.

410
00:27:15,041 --> 00:27:19,032
That leaves us with a vacancy
at the Department of Health. Now...

411
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,715
The Minister for Sport is here, Prime Minister.

412
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,788
- Come in.
- Mr Potts!

413
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:28,715
Leslie! My dear chap.

414
00:27:30,081 --> 00:27:32,595
Sit down. Now...

415
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,916
How would you like to be Minister of Health?

416
00:27:42,121 --> 00:27:44,634
- Me?
- Yes.

417
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,720
Well...

418
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,599
It's a considerable promotion.

419
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:51,990
But thoroughly merited.

420
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,834
You're very suitable for the job. You're not
one of the medical lobby like Dr Peter Thorne.

421
00:27:59,081 --> 00:28:03,595
Well, of course I can't refuse it.
Thank you, Prime Minister.

422
00:28:04,439 --> 00:28:07,034
Humphrey, meet our new Minister for Health.

423
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,555
Oh, congratulations.

424
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,308
I don't want the job
if it means attacking the tobacco industry.

425
00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:16,509
Ah, but it wouldn't.

426
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,308
You see, Leslie,
we in government have to be realists.

427
00:28:20,479 --> 00:28:23,596
I want you to work WITH the tobacco industry.

428
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,273
They're only trying to sort out the problems.

429
00:28:26,439 --> 00:28:31,958
They've got huge resources, nice chaps,
caring people and really fabulous employers.

430
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,189
They are really trying to help.

431
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,956
I want you to work with the industry, not against it.

432
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,067
- (COUGHS)
- All right?

433
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:46,750
What did he say?

434
00:28:46,921 --> 00:28:49,389
I think he said, ''Yes, Prime Minister.''

435
00:28:50,887 --> 00:28:59,321
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