1 00:00:41,698 --> 00:00:43,689 - Morning. - Morning. 2 00:00:43,858 --> 00:00:47,168 You have to leave for the TV studios in five minutes. 3 00:00:47,338 --> 00:00:51,650 - Do you remember what the interview's about? - Local government. 4 00:00:51,818 --> 00:00:54,013 The one thing I can do nothing about. 5 00:00:54,178 --> 00:00:58,968 These wretched councils are run by a bunch of corrupt morons who are too clever by half. 6 00:00:59,138 --> 00:01:04,496 The most a moron can be is less clever by half. These councillors are democratically elected. 7 00:01:04,658 --> 00:01:09,448 Depends how you define democracy. Only about 25% of people vote in a local election. 8 00:01:09,618 --> 00:01:13,896 Those who do regard it as a popularity pole for the real leaders in Westminster. 9 00:01:14,058 --> 00:01:18,256 - But councillors are still representatives. - Who do they represent? 10 00:01:18,418 --> 00:01:22,172 Nobody knows who their councillor is. Do you know who yours is? 11 00:01:22,338 --> 00:01:25,057 - No. - Well, no, of course you don't. 12 00:01:25,218 --> 00:01:27,209 The councillors know this, 13 00:01:27,378 --> 00:01:32,168 so they spend four totally unaccountable years on a publicly subsidised ego trip. 14 00:01:32,338 --> 00:01:35,887 They ruin the inner cities, let the schools fall to bits, 15 00:01:36,058 --> 00:01:40,051 they demoralise the police and undermine law and order, then blame me. 16 00:01:40,858 --> 00:01:44,328 - Will you say that? - I've just said it. Didn't you hear me? 17 00:01:45,178 --> 00:01:49,888 - No, I mean on television. - Of course not. It'd make me sound intolerant. 18 00:01:50,898 --> 00:01:53,696 Houndsworth Council leader, Agnes Moorhouse, 19 00:01:53,858 --> 00:01:57,567 threatens to withhold police funds and ban them from council property. 20 00:01:57,738 --> 00:02:01,048 She can't do that. Section 5 of the Police Act, 1964. 21 00:02:01,218 --> 00:02:04,608 Councils must provide an adequate and efficient police force. 22 00:02:04,778 --> 00:02:09,488 She says that until the police force is 50% black, it can't be adequate or efficient. 23 00:02:10,378 --> 00:02:14,166 - She can't prove that. - Unfortunately, her own police force 24 00:02:14,338 --> 00:02:17,728 is the most inadequate and least efficient in the country. 25 00:02:17,898 --> 00:02:21,288 - Everybody's terrified that she will prove it. - (KNOCK AT DOOR) 26 00:02:22,418 --> 00:02:26,013 Humphrey, we've got to do something about Agnes Moorhouse. 27 00:02:26,178 --> 00:02:29,170 - Her borough's practically a no-go area. - Indeed. 28 00:02:29,338 --> 00:02:32,569 - What? - How about a strongly worded letter? 29 00:02:32,738 --> 00:02:37,937 And get a more strongly worded letter in reply, copied to the newspapers? Asking for trouble. 30 00:02:38,098 --> 00:02:41,408 - Draw her attention to the law. - She is a lawyer. 31 00:02:41,578 --> 00:02:46,094 - Getting round the law is what she's paid for. - Why not just ignore her? 32 00:02:46,258 --> 00:02:50,968 Have everyone say I'd handed over control of the inner cities to the militant loonies? 33 00:02:51,138 --> 00:02:55,973 She's a wild woman, Humphrey. No, someone's got to have a word with her. 34 00:02:56,138 --> 00:02:59,210 - Point out the security implications. - A law officer? 35 00:02:59,378 --> 00:03:02,848 No. Can't be a political confrontation. Has to be an official. 36 00:03:03,018 --> 00:03:07,330 Somebody with responsibility for security. 37 00:03:07,498 --> 00:03:10,376 (MUTTERS) Somebody with responsibility... 38 00:03:11,018 --> 00:03:15,330 No, no, no, no, Prime Minister, no! She's a monster! 39 00:03:15,498 --> 00:03:20,891 No, i-i-it's up to Scotland Yard, the Home Office, the Security Branch, er, Special Branch, I mean, 40 00:03:21,058 --> 00:03:25,734 the... the Ml5, the Lord Chancellor, Department of the Environment... 41 00:03:25,898 --> 00:03:28,970 - The White Fish Authority? - White Fish... No, no, no! 42 00:03:29,138 --> 00:03:32,335 - Don't you coordinate the security services? - Yes, yes... 43 00:03:32,498 --> 00:03:37,208 - Or should we give that job to someone else? - No, no, no, no, no. 44 00:03:37,378 --> 00:03:41,417 That's agreed, then. A quiet word. Come to a gentlemen's agreement. 45 00:03:41,578 --> 00:03:43,773 But she's not a gentleman! 46 00:03:43,938 --> 00:03:45,929 She's not even a lady! 47 00:03:46,938 --> 00:03:50,089 I want YOU to handle her. Come on. 48 00:03:51,338 --> 00:03:53,135 Handle her? 49 00:03:57,658 --> 00:04:01,446 - Agnes Moorhouse to see you, Sir Humphrey. - Right. 50 00:04:04,738 --> 00:04:10,813 Oh, my dear lady, how very nice to meet you. Come in. Won't you come and sit down? Now... 51 00:04:12,738 --> 00:04:18,495 Um... right... Would you get Miss Moorhouse a cup of tea. Or is it Mrs Moorhouse? 52 00:04:19,098 --> 00:04:22,488 - Is my marital status really your concern? - Er, no, no. 53 00:04:22,658 --> 00:04:26,412 It's just... You know, I was just... worried about whether the... er... 54 00:04:26,578 --> 00:04:29,570 Er, would you get... her a cup of tea? 55 00:04:31,578 --> 00:04:36,413 - What should I call you? Ms Moorhouse? - Call me Agnes. What shall I call you? 56 00:04:36,578 --> 00:04:38,409 Um... 57 00:04:38,578 --> 00:04:41,297 ...well, you can call me Sir Humphrey. 58 00:04:41,458 --> 00:04:43,449 Now, my dear lady... 59 00:04:44,458 --> 00:04:49,134 I'm not your "dear lady". Don't patronise me and cut out the sexist crap, OK? 60 00:04:52,738 --> 00:04:54,968 Er... OK, Agnes. 61 00:04:55,138 --> 00:04:59,529 I wanted us to have this meeting so we could try and understand one another. 62 00:04:59,698 --> 00:05:02,132 - I'm sure we're in agreement. - Really? 63 00:05:02,298 --> 00:05:05,495 You have your own views about how Britain should be run, 64 00:05:05,658 --> 00:05:09,207 but I'm sure we agree on a fundamental basis of order and authority. 65 00:05:09,378 --> 00:05:11,812 - That's half true. - Half true? 66 00:05:11,978 --> 00:05:15,414 - You agree, I don't. - But it's obvious! 67 00:05:15,578 --> 00:05:20,777 Yes, if you've got it made under this system, you use authority to preserve your privileges. 68 00:05:20,938 --> 00:05:24,328 What about the homeless, the unemployed, the poor? 69 00:05:24,498 --> 00:05:26,454 I know all about them. 70 00:05:26,618 --> 00:05:29,815 - (HUMPHREY CHUCKLES) - Really? What do you know? 71 00:05:29,978 --> 00:05:34,369 I've read all the published papers. I've seen all the statistics. 72 00:05:34,538 --> 00:05:37,575 Believe me, dear lady... Agnes, I... I... 73 00:05:38,938 --> 00:05:41,930 - I do know all about them. - Fine. 74 00:05:42,098 --> 00:05:45,090 What does half a pound of margarine cost? 75 00:05:45,898 --> 00:05:49,493 - What? - What does half a pound of margarine cost? 76 00:05:49,658 --> 00:05:52,092 Oh... er... How should I know? Er... 20p. 77 00:05:52,258 --> 00:05:56,331 - 20p?! - £2.40! I don't know! 78 00:05:56,498 --> 00:06:00,696 Right. Why should you? What time do Social Security offices open? 79 00:06:03,018 --> 00:06:06,533 How long can you run a one-bar fire with 50 pence in the meter? 80 00:06:06,698 --> 00:06:08,689 I'm not entirely sure I follow. 81 00:06:08,858 --> 00:06:13,886 If you knew that, you wouldn't agree about using authority to support the system. 82 00:06:14,058 --> 00:06:18,529 I do understand. I do sympathise. It'd be marvellous if there was no poverty. 83 00:06:18,698 --> 00:06:22,168 - But we haven't the resources to achieve that. - Who hasn't? 84 00:06:22,338 --> 00:06:25,330 - The nation. - Really? 85 00:06:26,858 --> 00:06:30,851 Does this desk belong to the nation? This china? 86 00:06:31,018 --> 00:06:34,055 - Porcelain. - Porcelain. 87 00:06:34,218 --> 00:06:39,008 - These portraits? Or are they your own? - They're government property. 88 00:06:39,178 --> 00:06:42,773 Oh, good. They should fetch about - what? - 80,000. 89 00:06:42,938 --> 00:06:46,897 That'll keep 20 one-parent families for a year. What about your salary? 90 00:06:47,058 --> 00:06:51,449 - That has nothing to do with it! - Good, then we'll have that, too. 91 00:06:51,618 --> 00:06:55,213 Leave you £100 a week. That's 70,000 a year for the needy. 92 00:06:55,378 --> 00:06:59,496 My salary is merely part of a complex economic structure. 93 00:06:59,658 --> 00:07:01,455 We'll simplify it. 94 00:07:01,618 --> 00:07:06,533 After all, you don't want to make a profit out of serving your country, do you? 95 00:07:09,858 --> 00:07:11,655 Ah, tea. 96 00:07:12,498 --> 00:07:15,217 Over here, Eileen. Um... 97 00:07:15,378 --> 00:07:18,973 How very nice. Thank you so much. Shall I be mother? 98 00:07:24,538 --> 00:07:27,416 Tell me, um... Agnes... 99 00:07:27,578 --> 00:07:32,527 ...this policy of yours of only allowing free-range eggs 100 00:07:32,698 --> 00:07:35,770 to be sold in your borough, how does this help poverty? 101 00:07:35,938 --> 00:07:41,251 Animals have rights too, you know. A battery chicken's life isn't worth living. 102 00:07:41,418 --> 00:07:46,253 Would you want to spend your life packed in with 600 other squawking, smelly creatures, 103 00:07:46,418 --> 00:07:50,206 unable to breathe fresh air, unable to move, unable to think? 104 00:07:50,378 --> 00:07:54,132 Certainly not. That's why I never stood for Parliament. 105 00:07:55,618 --> 00:07:57,415 - Sugar? - No, thank you. 106 00:07:57,578 --> 00:08:01,776 Now, let's turn to this matter of the police. 107 00:08:01,938 --> 00:08:07,012 You want to withhold funds from the police, ban them from council property, 108 00:08:07,178 --> 00:08:10,966 sack the Chief Constable, and allow several no-go areas. 109 00:08:11,138 --> 00:08:14,847 - That's it. - But can't you see 110 00:08:15,018 --> 00:08:19,728 that an adequate police enforcement is in all our interests? 111 00:08:19,898 --> 00:08:24,813 And it is especially in the interests of all those poor, ordinary folk 112 00:08:24,978 --> 00:08:28,050 who dwell in the high-crime housing estates. 113 00:08:28,218 --> 00:08:30,527 - I don't accept that. - Oh. 114 00:08:30,698 --> 00:08:34,771 You want them to be in danger of being mugged and raped and bombed? 115 00:08:34,938 --> 00:08:38,135 - Can't be helped. - But this could lead to the overthrow 116 00:08:38,298 --> 00:08:42,689 - of our system of government, our way of life! - Yours, not theirs. 117 00:08:42,858 --> 00:08:45,850 - You would be happy to abolish Parliament? - Yes. 118 00:08:46,018 --> 00:08:47,815 - The courts? - Yes. 119 00:08:47,978 --> 00:08:50,538 - The monarchy?! - Of course. 120 00:08:51,538 --> 00:08:56,692 Perhaps you'd like to burn down my office! That matches are over here! 121 00:08:56,858 --> 00:08:59,372 - No, certainly not. - Why? 122 00:09:00,698 --> 00:09:02,689 I may need it. 123 00:09:06,018 --> 00:09:08,293 - You know that Agnes Moorhouse woman? - Yes? 124 00:09:08,458 --> 00:09:12,736 - I told Humphrey to have a word with her. - Interesting experiment. 125 00:09:12,898 --> 00:09:17,926 He says it went well, but he didn't want to talk about it and had four whiskies in ten minutes. 126 00:09:18,738 --> 00:09:20,933 What is it about local government? 127 00:09:21,098 --> 00:09:26,092 I've had trouble with the town hall. They've cancelled the old people's Christmas party. 128 00:09:26,258 --> 00:09:30,137 - Why? - New staff overtime agreements. 129 00:09:30,298 --> 00:09:34,769 "It's your husband's fault. Tell him to give us the money and you can have the party." 130 00:09:34,938 --> 00:09:39,932 Every piece of stupidity and incompetence in every town hall in Britain is blamed on me. 131 00:09:40,098 --> 00:09:42,089 - (DOORBELL) - That'll be Dorothy. 132 00:09:42,258 --> 00:09:48,049 I asked her up here to have a word about that very thing. Dorothy, come in. 133 00:09:48,218 --> 00:09:53,212 Come and sit down. Now, tell me, what is wrong with local government? 134 00:09:53,378 --> 00:09:56,051 Well, it's a them-and-us situation. 135 00:09:56,218 --> 00:10:00,211 - The local authority ought to be us. - Us the people or us the government? 136 00:10:00,378 --> 00:10:04,371 - In a democracy that ought to be the same thing. - We all know it isn't. 137 00:10:04,538 --> 00:10:08,531 I mean us, the people. They ought to be running things for us. 138 00:10:08,698 --> 00:10:14,091 But they're running things for them. For their power, their convenience and their benefit. 139 00:10:14,258 --> 00:10:16,726 - I know that. - So what's the answer? 140 00:10:16,898 --> 00:10:19,935 - Fight them. - No. Make them us. 141 00:10:20,098 --> 00:10:23,727 - How do you mean? - How do you stop a major government project? 142 00:10:23,898 --> 00:10:25,889 Join the Civil Service. 143 00:10:27,138 --> 00:10:29,174 If you're an ordinary person. 144 00:10:29,338 --> 00:10:34,571 - I can't remember what that was like. - Judging from opinion polls, you'll soon find out. 145 00:10:34,738 --> 00:10:38,970 - Just imagine you're an ordinary person, Jim. - Well, I'll try. 146 00:10:39,138 --> 00:10:44,337 Imagine you want to stop a road-widening scheme or an airport being built. What do you do? 147 00:10:44,498 --> 00:10:47,058 - Write to your MP. - That does the trick? 148 00:10:47,218 --> 00:10:51,848 Of course not, but that's what ordinary people do 'cause ordinary people are stupid. 149 00:10:52,018 --> 00:10:55,806 - Is that why they elected you? - Stop barracking, darling, please. 150 00:10:55,978 --> 00:10:58,776 I'm trying to understand what Dorothy's driving at. 151 00:10:58,938 --> 00:11:03,090 Ordinary people form a group to fight official plans they don't want 152 00:11:03,258 --> 00:11:05,977 and this group represents the local people. 153 00:11:06,138 --> 00:11:08,936 This group is different from the local authority 154 00:11:09,098 --> 00:11:12,852 because the local authority doesn't really represent the local people. 155 00:11:13,018 --> 00:11:17,409 - Why not? - Councillors are all drawn from tiny local parties. 156 00:11:17,578 --> 00:11:21,776 When a local community really cares about an issue, they form a committee, 157 00:11:21,938 --> 00:11:25,931 and then they talk to people in the supermarkets and on the doorstep. 158 00:11:26,098 --> 00:11:28,532 They drum up support and raise money. 159 00:11:28,698 --> 00:11:34,091 And this money isn't like the rates. It's spent on what people actually want it spent on. 160 00:11:34,258 --> 00:11:38,410 I bet ordinary people would like the old folks to have a Christmas party. 161 00:11:38,578 --> 00:11:41,376 The town hall would rather have a new town hall 162 00:11:41,538 --> 00:11:45,053 or a councillors' fact-finding mission to the Bahamas. 163 00:11:45,218 --> 00:11:48,528 - What do you do? - It's obvious. Abolish them. 164 00:11:48,698 --> 00:11:51,496 Invest all power in the central government. 165 00:11:51,658 --> 00:11:55,412 - That's exactly what Humphrey would say. - See? What? 166 00:11:55,578 --> 00:11:59,776 Jim, you've completely missed the point of everything I've been saying. 167 00:11:59,938 --> 00:12:05,570 The idea is to return power to ordinary people and take it away from the town-hall machine. 168 00:12:05,738 --> 00:12:09,413 - Make local government genuinely accountable. - Yes, but how? 169 00:12:09,578 --> 00:12:13,890 It's all in an article in this month's "Political Review" by Professor Marriott. 170 00:12:14,058 --> 00:12:16,856 Now, you create little voting districts. 171 00:12:17,018 --> 00:12:22,012 200 or so households electing their own little parish council, a city village. 172 00:12:22,178 --> 00:12:27,730 The chairman of this little parish council is their representative on the local authority. 173 00:12:27,898 --> 00:12:30,856 You'd have about 500 councillors to each borough. 174 00:12:31,018 --> 00:12:34,215 That's right. So they'd elect an executive council. 175 00:12:34,378 --> 00:12:37,768 The local authority would have a parliament and a cabinet. 176 00:12:37,938 --> 00:12:41,135 Parliament don't elect the Cabinet. We don't want that. 177 00:12:41,298 --> 00:12:45,610 - That'd be taking participation to extreme lengths. - These councils would. 178 00:12:45,778 --> 00:12:51,011 Each councillor would be in door-to-door contact with the people who voted for him. 179 00:12:51,178 --> 00:12:55,649 Dorothy, this could be like the Great Reform Act of 1832. 180 00:12:55,818 --> 00:12:58,730 These councils are like old rotten boroughs. 181 00:12:58,898 --> 00:13:03,050 Half a dozen people deciding who'll be in the town hall for the next four years. 182 00:13:03,218 --> 00:13:06,654 - Precisely. - And I shall be the great reformer! 183 00:13:08,018 --> 00:13:11,010 Hacker's Reform Bill. I shall introduce it myself. 184 00:13:12,178 --> 00:13:15,966 The power of this country does not lie in offices and institutions, 185 00:13:16,138 --> 00:13:21,258 it lies in the stout hearts and strong wills of the yeomen of Britain! 186 00:13:21,418 --> 00:13:24,216 Women have the vote, too! 187 00:13:24,378 --> 00:13:26,369 The yeowomen of Britain. 188 00:13:27,378 --> 00:13:30,176 Yeopersons. Yeopeople? No. 189 00:13:30,338 --> 00:13:33,136 ...the people of this island race. 190 00:13:33,298 --> 00:13:35,493 On their broad and wise shoulders... 191 00:13:35,658 --> 00:13:37,694 You can't have wise shoulders. 192 00:13:37,858 --> 00:13:43,091 On their broad shoulders and wise hearts... heads... 193 00:13:43,258 --> 00:13:46,568 In their wise heads lies our destiny. 194 00:13:46,738 --> 00:13:49,536 We must give back power to the people! 195 00:13:49,698 --> 00:13:53,008 And I shall be the one to introduce this... um... 196 00:13:53,178 --> 00:13:55,328 What shall I call this new scheme? 197 00:13:55,498 --> 00:13:57,648 Democracy? 198 00:14:02,018 --> 00:14:05,010 - You wanted to see me? - Oh, yes, Bernard. 199 00:14:05,178 --> 00:14:09,649 Bernard, I want to have a word with you about Professor Marriott's article. 200 00:14:09,818 --> 00:14:13,015 - I think it's time we reformed local government. - Do you? 201 00:14:13,178 --> 00:14:14,975 Yes. 202 00:14:17,258 --> 00:14:19,249 At least I think I did. 203 00:14:20,498 --> 00:14:23,092 That is, I'm not wholly against it. 204 00:14:24,098 --> 00:14:30,128 Although there are many... convincing, some might say conclusive, arguments against it. 205 00:14:30,298 --> 00:14:32,687 Some might indeed, Bernard. 206 00:14:32,858 --> 00:14:34,610 Yes. Why? 207 00:14:34,778 --> 00:14:36,848 Because once you create 208 00:14:37,018 --> 00:14:41,409 genuinely democratic local communities, it won't stop there. 209 00:14:41,578 --> 00:14:44,615 - Won't it? - Well, of course it won't. 210 00:14:44,778 --> 00:14:49,977 You see, once they get established, they'll insist on more power. 211 00:14:50,138 --> 00:14:54,893 Politicians will be too frightened to withhold them, so you'll get regional government. 212 00:14:55,058 --> 00:14:59,051 - Would that matter? - Bernard, come and sit down. 213 00:15:00,338 --> 00:15:05,048 What happens at the moment if there is some vacant land in, say, Nottingham 214 00:15:05,218 --> 00:15:09,177 and there are rival proposals for its use - hospital, college, airport? 215 00:15:09,338 --> 00:15:15,527 We set up an inter-departmental committee. Health, Education, Transport, Environment. 216 00:15:15,698 --> 00:15:20,249 Ask for papers, hold meetings, propose, discuss, revise, report back, re-draft. 217 00:15:20,418 --> 00:15:23,808 Precisely. Months of fruitful work. 218 00:15:25,738 --> 00:15:28,730 Leading to a mature and responsible conclusion. 219 00:15:28,898 --> 00:15:33,289 But if you have regional government, they decide it all in Nottingham! 220 00:15:33,458 --> 00:15:37,246 Probably in a couple of meetings! Complete amateurs! 221 00:15:37,418 --> 00:15:40,649 - It is their city. - And what happens to us? 222 00:15:40,818 --> 00:15:44,970 - Well, much less work. - Yes, much less work! 223 00:15:45,138 --> 00:15:50,610 So little that ministers might be able to do it on their own, so we'd have much less power! 224 00:15:51,298 --> 00:15:53,334 I don't know if I want power. 225 00:15:53,498 --> 00:15:57,093 If the right people don't have power, know what happens? 226 00:15:57,258 --> 00:15:59,249 The wrong people get it! 227 00:16:00,658 --> 00:16:07,097 - Politicians, councillors, ordinary voters! - But aren't they supposed to in a democracy? 228 00:16:07,258 --> 00:16:12,048 - This is a British democracy, Bernard! - How do you mean? 229 00:16:12,218 --> 00:16:16,052 British democracy recognises that you need a system 230 00:16:16,218 --> 00:16:18,686 to protect the important things of life 231 00:16:18,858 --> 00:16:22,248 and keep them out of the hands of the barbarians! 232 00:16:24,378 --> 00:16:26,369 Things like the opera... 233 00:16:27,498 --> 00:16:29,295 ...Radio 3... 234 00:16:30,778 --> 00:16:33,338 ...the countryside... the law... 235 00:16:34,338 --> 00:16:36,374 ...the universities. 236 00:16:36,538 --> 00:16:38,529 Both of them. 237 00:16:41,058 --> 00:16:44,334 - And we are that system. - Gosh! 238 00:16:44,498 --> 00:16:48,491 We run a civilised, aristocratic government machine 239 00:16:48,658 --> 00:16:51,616 tempered by occasional general elections. 240 00:16:53,058 --> 00:16:58,451 Since 1832, we have been gradually excluding the voter from government. 241 00:16:58,618 --> 00:17:03,009 Now we've got them to a point where they just vote once every five years 242 00:17:03,178 --> 00:17:06,648 for which buffoons will try to interfere with OUR policies 243 00:17:06,818 --> 00:17:09,537 and you are happy to see all that thrown away? 244 00:17:09,698 --> 00:17:11,654 Well, no, no, I didn't mean... 245 00:17:11,818 --> 00:17:16,812 Bernard, do you want the Lake District turned into a gigantic caravan site? 246 00:17:17,818 --> 00:17:22,016 The Royal Opera House into a bingo hall? 247 00:17:23,018 --> 00:17:27,216 The National Theatre into a carpet sale warehouse? 248 00:17:27,378 --> 00:17:29,608 Well, it looks like one, actually. 249 00:17:31,898 --> 00:17:35,891 We gave the architect a knighthood so that nobody would ever say that. 250 00:17:39,658 --> 00:17:45,449 Do you want Radio 3 to broadcast pop music 24 hours a day? 251 00:17:45,618 --> 00:17:49,611 How would you feel if they took all the culture programmes off television? 252 00:17:49,778 --> 00:17:54,090 - I never watch them. - Neither do I, but it's vital to know they're there! 253 00:17:54,978 --> 00:17:58,175 You said local government was corrupt and incompetent. 254 00:17:58,338 --> 00:18:04,334 So it is, Bernard. So corrupt and incompetent that even ministers recognise it. 255 00:18:04,498 --> 00:18:07,092 Which means that they centralise. 256 00:18:07,258 --> 00:18:11,092 They give all the responsible jobs to us. 257 00:18:11,258 --> 00:18:15,456 We... are the flower of government, Bernard. 258 00:18:16,298 --> 00:18:19,096 Local government may be a dunghill... 259 00:18:20,378 --> 00:18:23,768 ...but it grows beautiful roses. 260 00:18:24,978 --> 00:18:26,775 You mean... 261 00:18:28,098 --> 00:18:30,214 Yes, that's right, Bernard. 262 00:18:30,378 --> 00:18:34,371 But if we try to clean up the dunghill 263 00:18:34,538 --> 00:18:38,133 and... lose our balance... 264 00:18:38,298 --> 00:18:42,086 - We land in the... - Thank you, Bernard. 265 00:18:45,178 --> 00:18:47,487 That's very good of you. Thank you. 266 00:18:49,378 --> 00:18:52,768 So you see why I'm so worried, Arnold. 267 00:18:52,938 --> 00:18:58,331 This Marriott scheme is the thin end of the wedge. It could eventually undermine the Civil Service. 268 00:18:58,498 --> 00:19:03,014 Oh, I don't think there's any danger of that. Not if you play it right. 269 00:19:04,338 --> 00:19:07,171 Hacker's just grasping at straws. 270 00:19:07,338 --> 00:19:12,571 It's the old logical fallacy. All cats have four legs. My dog has four legs... 271 00:19:13,578 --> 00:19:16,138 Therefore my dog is a cat. 272 00:19:17,338 --> 00:19:20,057 He's suffering from politician's logic. 273 00:19:20,218 --> 00:19:23,051 Something must be done therefore we must do it. 274 00:19:23,218 --> 00:19:26,415 But doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing. 275 00:19:26,578 --> 00:19:29,297 Doing anything is worse than doing nothing. 276 00:19:29,898 --> 00:19:34,926 After all, what is the one thing that obsesses politicians throughout their careers? 277 00:19:35,098 --> 00:19:40,047 Well, obviously publicity and popularity. Name in the paper, face on the telly. 278 00:19:40,218 --> 00:19:43,210 - Anything to help get them re-elected. - Quite. 279 00:19:43,378 --> 00:19:48,577 Government is fame and glory and importance and big offices and chauffeurs 280 00:19:48,738 --> 00:19:51,730 and being interviewed by Terry Wogan. 281 00:19:53,098 --> 00:19:56,693 Opposition is impotence and insignificance 282 00:19:56,858 --> 00:20:00,168 and people at parties asking you if you know Robin Day. 283 00:20:00,898 --> 00:20:07,212 But, Arnold, reforming the Civil Service might win them popularity. 284 00:20:08,018 --> 00:20:11,408 But it can't ever happen... can it, Humphrey? 285 00:20:12,418 --> 00:20:16,252 - Er... why not, Arnold? It's the same as in local government. 286 00:20:16,418 --> 00:20:20,889 Constituencies of 60,000 are far too big for people to know their MP. 287 00:20:21,058 --> 00:20:25,654 Electors make up their minds on the basis of the telly and the radio and the press. 288 00:20:25,818 --> 00:20:28,616 Yes, they pick their favourite party leader, 289 00:20:28,778 --> 00:20:34,569 then they vote for whatever clown a few people in their party have chosen as their candidate. 290 00:20:34,738 --> 00:20:39,175 - I do understand how the system works, Arnold. - But do you? 291 00:20:39,898 --> 00:20:45,052 Listen, Humphrey, if a politician lives or dies by his media image, 292 00:20:45,218 --> 00:20:49,052 then his survival depends on the Civil Service publicity machine 293 00:20:49,218 --> 00:20:56,090 helping him with his fatuous speeches and articles and photo opportunities. 294 00:20:56,258 --> 00:20:58,977 Politicians are dependent on us. 295 00:20:59,138 --> 00:21:03,529 A thousand press officers to publicise their little triumphs. 296 00:21:03,698 --> 00:21:08,294 The Official Secrets Act to conceal their daily disasters. 297 00:21:09,178 --> 00:21:12,966 So what you're saying is that under Professor Marriott's scheme, 298 00:21:13,138 --> 00:21:18,576 MPs would be elected on their local reputation rather than on their leader's media image. 299 00:21:18,738 --> 00:21:22,731 Yes, governments and ministers would have to earn their votes. 300 00:21:22,898 --> 00:21:27,210 Actually do what the electors want instead of leaving us to do it our way 301 00:21:27,378 --> 00:21:29,369 while they do the fame and glory bit. 302 00:21:30,258 --> 00:21:31,976 Frightening thought. 303 00:21:32,898 --> 00:21:36,208 Frightening to us, but what about the Prime Minister? 304 00:21:39,098 --> 00:21:41,566 Of course. Even more frightening. 305 00:21:41,738 --> 00:21:45,447 Reforming the Civil Service would remove his life-support system. 306 00:21:46,578 --> 00:21:49,968 It would kick away the ladder that's put him where he is. 307 00:21:50,138 --> 00:21:53,050 While he's still standing on it. 308 00:21:53,778 --> 00:21:55,769 That's right. 309 00:21:55,938 --> 00:22:01,058 The only way to reform the Civil Service system is to reform the political system. 310 00:22:01,218 --> 00:22:05,211 No government's going to reform the system that put it into power. 311 00:22:07,138 --> 00:22:10,926 The thing is to get the Prime Minister to see the danger. 312 00:22:11,098 --> 00:22:13,089 That's your job. 313 00:22:14,098 --> 00:22:19,570 I know. I'll tell him it'll be the most courageous thing he's ever done. 314 00:22:21,698 --> 00:22:23,893 That always does the trick. 315 00:22:25,218 --> 00:22:27,413 - (KNOCK AT DOOR) - Yes? 316 00:22:27,578 --> 00:22:31,776 - Agnes Moorhouse, Sir Humphrey. - Ah, Agnes. 317 00:22:31,938 --> 00:22:33,929 Why don't you sit over here? 318 00:22:36,418 --> 00:22:41,253 Agnes, the Prime Minister's really worried about your attitude to the police. 319 00:22:41,418 --> 00:22:43,010 Oh, good. 320 00:22:43,978 --> 00:22:49,575 So he's proposing a wholesale reform of local government. 321 00:22:50,298 --> 00:22:54,257 Street representatives, voting communities of 200 households, 322 00:22:54,418 --> 00:22:59,412 total involvement of the borough electorate in the selection of candidates. 323 00:22:59,578 --> 00:23:02,615 - This isn't serious? - Oh, I'm afraid it is. 324 00:23:04,698 --> 00:23:08,293 This strikes at the heart of our democratic social reforms. 325 00:23:08,458 --> 00:23:12,770 Do you mean the people don't want your policies? 326 00:23:12,938 --> 00:23:18,934 Of course they would if they could understand, but the ordinary voters are simple people. 327 00:23:19,098 --> 00:23:22,693 They don't see their needs. They can't analyse problems. 328 00:23:22,858 --> 00:23:25,577 They need leadership to guide them. 329 00:23:25,738 --> 00:23:29,617 And don't you think "the people" would vote for such leadership? 330 00:23:29,778 --> 00:23:36,729 - People don't understand what's good for them. - Oh... I do so agree with you. 331 00:23:37,418 --> 00:23:39,613 - Do you? - Of course! 332 00:23:39,778 --> 00:23:43,771 That's how the Civil Service has survived for centuries. 333 00:23:43,938 --> 00:23:48,216 We made this country what it is, but nobody would ever vote for us! 334 00:23:48,898 --> 00:23:52,368 - We know what's right for this country! - So do we! 335 00:23:52,538 --> 00:23:57,453 The only way is to have a small group in charge and let the people have a vote every few years. 336 00:23:57,618 --> 00:24:00,451 If they knew the people they were voting for... 337 00:24:00,618 --> 00:24:05,214 If they actually talked to them, they'd fall for all the silly conventional ideas! 338 00:24:06,098 --> 00:24:08,293 - Humphrey... - Agnes? 339 00:24:10,058 --> 00:24:12,492 This would be a disaster for you, too. 340 00:24:12,658 --> 00:24:14,569 I know. 341 00:24:14,738 --> 00:24:18,128 Community councils always lead to regional government. 342 00:24:18,298 --> 00:24:22,257 Agnes... we must stop the Prime Minister! 343 00:24:23,178 --> 00:24:26,966 - You want to stop him, too? - Of course. And you must help me. 344 00:24:27,138 --> 00:24:30,733 - How? - Well, I think I know how to do it. 345 00:24:30,898 --> 00:24:35,130 I want your written assurance that you will stop harassing your local police. 346 00:24:35,298 --> 00:24:39,610 I mean, stop making them democratically accountable to you. 347 00:24:39,778 --> 00:24:41,769 It will remove some of the urgency. 348 00:24:43,178 --> 00:24:46,011 Right. What do you want me to say? 349 00:24:46,178 --> 00:24:48,169 Well, I thought... 350 00:24:49,338 --> 00:24:51,932 ...it might go something like this. 351 00:24:57,218 --> 00:24:59,493 Oh, Humphrey... 352 00:25:00,498 --> 00:25:03,251 ...you're a great loss to the militant revolution. 353 00:25:04,938 --> 00:25:06,929 And you, my dear Agnes... 354 00:25:08,018 --> 00:25:10,816 ...are a great loss to the Civil Service. 355 00:25:18,378 --> 00:25:22,530 - Why does Humphrey want me to see Marriott? - He must have an ulterior motive. 356 00:25:22,698 --> 00:25:26,247 - Why? - All Humphrey's motives are ulterior. 357 00:25:26,418 --> 00:25:30,411 Has he, Bernard? What does Humphrey really think about this plan? 358 00:25:30,578 --> 00:25:32,773 Well, er... Well, I think... 359 00:25:32,938 --> 00:25:35,930 That is, I'm sure, if it's what you want... 360 00:25:36,098 --> 00:25:38,692 - I'm sure Sir Humphrey would... - (DOOR OPENS) 361 00:25:38,858 --> 00:25:41,736 - He would... er... - As bad as that? 362 00:25:42,698 --> 00:25:46,486 - Professor Marriott is outside. Will you see him? - Yes, of course. 363 00:25:46,658 --> 00:25:52,369 - Bernard, I wonder if you'd be kind enough. - What's your view of the Marriott plan? 364 00:25:52,538 --> 00:25:56,531 It is a brilliant way of bringing real democracy into the government of Britain. 365 00:25:56,698 --> 00:26:00,293 - So you're in favour? - That's not what he said. 366 00:26:00,458 --> 00:26:06,055 If you want real democratic government, you will have my unquestioning support. 367 00:26:07,778 --> 00:26:09,097 Professor Marriott. 368 00:26:09,258 --> 00:26:12,648 Professor, come in. Good of you to come. Do sit down. 369 00:26:12,818 --> 00:26:16,015 - What an honour to meet you. - Yes, I know. 370 00:26:17,938 --> 00:26:23,410 Professor Marriott has a sequel to his original article that's due to be published next month. 371 00:26:23,578 --> 00:26:26,775 It is even more exciting than the first one. 372 00:26:26,938 --> 00:26:31,773 - Tell me more, Professor. - Tell the PM about the benefits to Parliament. 373 00:26:31,938 --> 00:26:35,533 Well, as you know, under my local government scheme, 374 00:26:35,698 --> 00:26:39,976 each borough would have its 500 street representatives. 375 00:26:40,138 --> 00:26:44,654 This means the local MP would be able to talk to them all in one hall. 376 00:26:44,818 --> 00:26:46,615 They'd get to know him. 377 00:26:46,778 --> 00:26:51,215 And tell all the people in their street about him. Word-of-mouth recommendation. 378 00:26:51,378 --> 00:26:56,054 - Sounds terrific. - Where would the constituency party come in? 379 00:26:56,218 --> 00:26:58,209 Ah, that's the marvellous thing. 380 00:26:58,378 --> 00:27:01,848 Party organisations would be completely bypassed. 381 00:27:02,018 --> 00:27:05,727 - MPs would become genuinely independent. - What? 382 00:27:05,898 --> 00:27:10,892 If they were known to all their constituents or their committee representatives, 383 00:27:11,058 --> 00:27:16,007 then getting re-elected would be nothing to do with whether the party backed them or not 384 00:27:16,178 --> 00:27:19,727 but on whether the constituents felt they were doing a good job. 385 00:27:19,898 --> 00:27:22,890 If the MP wasn't dependent on his party machine, 386 00:27:23,058 --> 00:27:26,209 he could vote against his own party and get away with it. 387 00:27:26,378 --> 00:27:28,369 There'd be no official candidates. 388 00:27:28,538 --> 00:27:34,135 Election would depend on an MP's reputation, not the image of the party leader. 389 00:27:34,298 --> 00:27:38,086 An end of the party machine. An end to the power of the whips. 390 00:27:38,258 --> 00:27:43,651 How would the government gets its unpopular legislation through without twisting the odd arm? 391 00:27:43,818 --> 00:27:46,412 - How would it command a majority? - It couldn't. 392 00:27:46,578 --> 00:27:51,777 There could only be legislation if a majority of the MPs were actually in favour of it. 393 00:27:51,938 --> 00:27:54,611 Parliament would become genuinely democratic. 394 00:27:54,778 --> 00:28:00,614 Prime Minister, it is the most courageous policy you have ever proposed. 395 00:28:02,858 --> 00:28:06,055 Professor, thank you so much. Fascinating. Goodbye. 396 00:28:08,578 --> 00:28:10,967 Thank you, Prime Minister. 397 00:28:11,138 --> 00:28:13,572 Prime Minister, it's a splendid idea. 398 00:28:13,738 --> 00:28:16,775 - Real democracy. - It's out of the question. 399 00:28:16,938 --> 00:28:20,931 The Marriott scheme was our way of controlling the local authority. 400 00:28:21,098 --> 00:28:26,297 - What will we do about Agnes Moorhouse? - I've had another word with her. 401 00:28:26,458 --> 00:28:31,248 To put it simply, Prime Minister, certain informal discussions took place 402 00:28:31,418 --> 00:28:37,015 involving a full and frank exchange of views, out of which there arose a series of proposals 403 00:28:37,178 --> 00:28:40,887 which proved to indicate certain promising lines of inquiry, 404 00:28:41,058 --> 00:28:45,848 which, when pursued, led to the realisation that the alternative courses of action 405 00:28:46,018 --> 00:28:50,614 might, in fact, in certain circumstances, be susceptible of discreet modification, 406 00:28:50,778 --> 00:28:53,770 leading to a reappraisal of the areas of difference 407 00:28:53,938 --> 00:28:58,728 and pointing the way to encouraging possibilities of compromise and cooperation 408 00:28:58,898 --> 00:29:03,096 which, if bilaterally implemented with appropriate give and take on both sides, 409 00:29:03,258 --> 00:29:07,251 might, if the climate were right, have a possibility, at the end of the day, 410 00:29:07,418 --> 00:29:11,809 of leading, rightly or wrongly, to a mutually satisfactory resolution. 411 00:29:14,378 --> 00:29:16,846 What the hell are you talking about? 412 00:29:19,218 --> 00:29:21,209 We did a deal. 413 00:29:23,538 --> 00:29:28,328 Oddly enough, she didn't seem to like the idea of democracy any more than you. 414 00:29:28,498 --> 00:29:31,331 - Or you. - Quite so, dear lady. 415 00:29:31,498 --> 00:29:37,209 Well, I think we're all agreed that the nation isn't quite ready for total democracy. 416 00:29:37,378 --> 00:29:39,494 Perhaps... er... next century? 417 00:29:40,818 --> 00:29:44,606 Well, you could still be Prime Minister next century. 418 00:29:45,498 --> 00:29:48,456 - Well, the one after that. - Yes, Prime Minister.