Ah, Bernard, how is our great statesman this afternoon?
- Very cheerful. - What has he found to be cheerful about?
- Well, at Question Time he did very well. - In whose opinion?
Everyone was impressed with his answer on tapping MPs' phones.
- I heard about that, but regrettably not from you. - I didn't see any point.
I coordinate all government security. Why was the question not referred to me first?
- It was an unforeseen supplementary. - A foreseeable unforeseen supplementary.
It was a good answer. "Much as I respect and value the opinions of this house,
"I have no desire to listen to honourable members for any longer than I have to." Got a good laugh.
- From you. - Yes, and from his own party.
Ones hoping to be promoted or afraid of being sacked?
That's just about all of them.
I gather he denied that he'd authorised the bugging of an MP's phone.
Well, yes. Well, he hasn't, has he? Has he? He has? Crikey!
It's all here, Bernard, including the transcripts. Shall we... um...
Can't we wait? He doesn't get many moments of unalloyed pleasure.
I suppose he gets all he deserves.
- Prime Minister. - Ah, come in!
- I want to talk about PM's Question Time. - I accept your congratulations!
- Wasn't I brilliant? Didn't you think so? - Well, I wasn't there, but...
- Wasn't I brilliant, Bernard? - Er...
- Your replies will not be quickly forgotten. - Let me tell you what happened.
The first question was about that cock-up over the shortage of prison officers. Masterly reply!
I said, "I refer the honourable member to the speech I made on October 28th."
- Did he remember what you'd said? - No.
Neither did I, come to that. Still, it shut him up.
The next one was, "Did the Department of Employment fiddle the figures?"
Restructure the base from which the statistics have been derived without telling the public?
- Exactly. Fiddle the figures. - Of course they do.
I know they do. I said I'd found no significant evidence of it.
- You haven't looked. - And we haven't shown you.
Well done. Then we went on to a googly about the Dept of Energy's plans for nuclear waste.
- He wanted me to admit Cabinet was divided. - Well, it is.
I know. So I said, "My cabinet took a unanimous decision."
You threatened to dismiss anyone who wouldn't agree.
It certainly made them agree unanimously.
My back benchers were cheering my every word.
Oh, yes, then we had a question about why our new anti-missile missile
was scrapped as obsolete the day before it came off the production line.
- And how did you wriggle out of that one? - That was my masterstroke!
My reply was sheer genius.
I said our policy had not been as effective as we'd hoped. Clearly we had got it wrong.
- You admitted that? - Yeah. Brilliant!
Took the wind right out of his sails!
Honesty always gives you the advantage of surprise in the House of Commons.
The PM was also asked when he would request the resignation from the responsible minister.
I said, "When he makes a mistake that could've been seen at the time
"and not with the benefit of hindsight."
They were on their feet cheering, stamping, waving their order papers!
I gather there was a question about the bugging of an MP's phone.
- Yes, I got a terrific laugh with that. I said... - Bernard told me.
- I said, "Much as I respect..." - Bernard told me.
Oh. Well, anyway, that was stupid. Why should we bug Hugh Halifax's phone?
One of my own administration! Where did they get such a daft idea?
- Sheer paranoia. - The only thing is...
Why should we listen in to MPs? Boring, stupid, ignorant windbags!
I do my best not to listen to them.
And he's only a PPS. I can't find out what's going on at Defence. What could he know?
So I gather you denied that Mr Halifax's phone had been bugged?
It was the one question to which I could give a clear, simple, straightforward, honest answer.
Yes, unfortunately, although the answer was clear, simple and straightforward,
it is difficult to justifiably assign to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement...
...inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated
and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated
is such as to cause epistemological problems
of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language
a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.
Epistemological? What are you talking about?
You... told a lie.
- A lie? - A lie.
- What do you mean, a lie? - I mean, you...
...lied.
I know this is a difficult concept to get across to a politician.
You... er... (MUTTERS)
Ah, yes, you did not tell the truth.
We ARE bugging his phone?
- We were. - When did we stop?
Um... 17 minutes ago.
- Well, you can't call that lying! - What is the opposite of telling the truth?
I mean, there was no intent. I'd never knowingly mislead the House.
- Nonetheless you have done so. - It wasn't my fault. I didn't know!
- You are deemed to have known. - Why wasn't I told?
The Home Secretary might not have felt the need to inform you.
- Why? - Perhaps he didn't know either.
Or perhaps he'd been advised that you did not need to know.
- I did need to know. - The fact you needed to know
was not known at the time that the now-known need to know was known.
Those that needed to advise the Home Secretary felt that the information he needed
as to whether to inform the highest authority was not yet known,
so there was no authority for the authority to be informed
because the need to know was not known or needed.
What?
- We could not know you'd deny it in the House. - I would if I didn't know and were asked.
We did not know you'd be asked when you didn't know.
I was bound to be asked when I didn't know if I didn't know!
- What? - What?
It was thought that it was better not to inform you.
Halifax is one of your government team. It was thought it was better not to create distrust.
- We only tell you when you should be aware. - When's that?
You should now be aware because you've denied it.
It would've been helpful if I'd been aware before I denied it.
If you had been aware before you denied it, you wouldn't have denied it.
- But I needed to know! - We do not always tell you about bugging.
At times we need you not to know.
- Why did you decide I didn't? - I didn't.
- Who did? - Nobody. It was just nobody decided to tell you.
- It's the same thing! - On the contrary.
To decide to conceal information from you is a heavy burden for any official to shoulder,
but to decide not to reveal information to you is routine procedure.
Humphrey, I need to know everything.
- Everything? - Everything.
Very well.
Stationery deliveries this week. Four dozen packets...
No, Humphrey, Humphrey, don't be silly. I mean important things.
Who should decide what is important?
- How can you defend this cock-up? - As you said in the House, we got it wrong.
- YOU got it wrong. - I am merely a humble servant, a lowly official.
- The Home Secretary made the decision. - Any reason I shouldn't ask him to resign?
You should only ask him to resign when he's made a mistake
which could've been seen at the time and not with the benefit of hindsight.
The trouble has arisen because of your error of judgement in making this denial.
- What? - You shouldn't have denied what you didn't know.
That was your fault. You admitted keeping secrets from me.
The system works perfectly well as long as the PM tells the Civil Service
everything he's going to say before he says it.
Lf, precipitantly, he says something without first clearing it with us, he has only himself to blame.
You must not say anything without clearing it. With respect, PM, you must learn discretion.
- There was nothing to be discreet about! - There's always something to be discreet about.
Anyway, why are we bugging Hugh Halifax? Is he talking to the Russians?
No, the French, actually. That's much more serious.
- Why? - The Russians already know what we're doing.
But the French are our trusted allies, whatever you think of them. And who doesn't?
No, Prime Minister, actually the French are our mistrusted allies.
That is why talking directly to the French is regarded as an act of treason
by the Foreign Office... who authorised it.
- I don't know. - You... don't know what?
- Who authorised it. Who authorised it? - Is there an echo?
- Who authorised this bugging? - The Foreign Office! I've just said.
Anyway, the less said the better. Wouldn't you agree, Prime Minister?
- About what? - About everything.
One cannot refuse to appear before a House committee.
- No, sir. - One shall have to tell them everything.
- Everything they can find out from other sources. - Precisely.
But they are likely to ask me if the PM has ever authorised the bugging of an MP's telephone.
So how should a loyal public servant reply?
Er, you could say it was a question for the PM or the Foreign Secretary or the Home Office.
Or it was a security matter - can't confirm or deny.
If I dodge the question, do you know what the next question will be?
Why will I not give the same clear denial that the PM gave the House yesterday?
- Ah. - What should I say then, Bernard?
Well, you could say the Prime Minister knows more about it than you do.
Then they'd know I was lying.
- So... what will you do? - I don't know, Bernard.
I thought you should be aware of the dilemma.
- Would you like a glass of sherry, Bernard? - Oh, yes, thank you. Sweet.
There's only dry.
Incidentally, Bernard, the BBC rang this morning.
- The BBC know about it? - No, of course not.
They want to interview me for a documentary
they're making on Radio 3 about the structure of the government.
Gosh. You won't do it, will you?
- Why not? - They may want you to say things.
That is quite normal on radio.
No, no, I mean interesting things. Controversy.
On the other hand, one has a duty to put the record straight.
- You mean you want to do it? - Well, not for oneself, of course.
No inclination for petty vanity, you know, being a celebrity.
- But... one can be too self-effacing. - I thought we were supposed to be faceless.
They don't show your face on radio.
They've said if I don't do it, Arnold has said he would.
Perhaps that would be better.
Arnold? For myself, I would rather not do it.
But one's sense of duty compels one to see that Arnold
is not held up as an example of a top civil servant.
You'll need clearance from the Prime Minister, but that won't be a problem.
- How do you know? - Well, it's on Radio 3. Nobody'll be listening.
- Ah, Prime Minister. - Humphrey.
The Cabinet agenda, Prime Minister.
- Is it today you do your interview? - Oh, yes.
- Any problems? - Oh, no, no, no.
I have some experience in dealing with difficult questions.
If you're evasive or confusing on the radio, they edit you out. You've really got to say something.
- Say something? - Something simple and interesting.
Simple and interesting.
Perhaps you could advise me, Prime Minister, particularly if the questions are aggressive.
Even better. That puts listeners on your side.
- I may have to answer them. - Why? You've never answered my questions.
No, no, no, that's different, Prime Minister.
Ludovic Kennedy might ask me some perceptive questions.
His researchers mentioned that lots of people are interested to know
why so much power is centralised in my hands.
Lots of people? Hardly anybody's ever heard of you, Humphrey!
- Perhaps they meant lots of Radio 3 listeners. - That's a contradiction in terms!
If he does say that lots of people want to know the answer to that question, say, "Name six."
That'll fix him. He'll never be able to remember more than two.
Oh, excellent, Prime Minister. Any more tricks?
Tricks, Humphrey? This is technique.
Attack one word in the sentence. Like frequently. "Frequently? What do you mean, frequently?"
Or attack the interviewer. "You've clearly never read the white paper, have you?"
Or else ask your own question.
"That was a very interesting question. Now let me ask you a question." See?
Oh, thank you, Prime Minister.
That reminds me, I have shortly to appear before the committee
to answer questions about the alleged bugging of an MP's phone.
Yes. Yes, Bernard told me. Well, you'll just have to confirm what I said in the House.
- But that would be lying. - Well, nobody'd know.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave.
You must. Otherwise it'll look as though I was lying.
Humphrey, you have a loyalty.
To the truth.
I'm sorry, Prime Minister, I cannot become involved in some shabby cover-up.
Whereas there must be some element of shared responsibility for the governance of Britain,
as between the legislators on the one hand and the administration on the other,
the precise allocation of cause to consequence or agency to eventuality in any particular instance
is invariably so complex as to be ultimately invalid if not irresponsible.
I see, but could you be a bit more precise?
How far is the Civil Service to blame for the level of unemployment?
Yes, of course, unemployment is a single name applied by the media
to what is a wide range of socio-economic phenomena
whose most politically visible manifestation happens to be...
- Could you be a little bit more precise... - I'm so sorry, Mr Kennedy.
You've asked me the question. Do allow me to answer it.
There happens to be a current frequency
of weekly registrations on the National Unemployment Register
which is deemed to be above what has been held to be an acceptable level.
But even separating out the component causes, let alone allocating responsibility for them,
is a task of such analytical delicacy
as not to be susceptible of compression within the confines of a popular radio programme.
Sir Humphrey Appleby, thank you very much.
If that was a popular programme, what would an unpopular programme be like?
Thank you, Sir Humphrey. Absolutely splendid.
My pleasure. Was I all right?
Couldn't you have said a bit more about unemployment?
- Such as? - Well... the truth.
- (HUMPHREY LAUGHS) - Why do you laugh?
Oh, my dear Ludo, nobody tells the truth about unemployment.
- Why not? - Because everybody knows you can halve it.
- But how? - Cut off all Social Security
to any claimant who refuses two job offers.
There's genuine unemployment in the north, but the south is awash with layabouts,
many of them graduates living off the dole and housing benefit
plus quite a lot of cash they pick up without telling anybody.
- You mean moonlighting? - Well, sunlighting, really.
Most employers will tell you they're short-staffed, but offer the unemployed a street-sweeping job,
they'd be off the register before you could say "parasite".
This country can have as much unemployment as it's prepared to pay for in Social Security.
No politicians have got the guts to do anything.
- (LUDOVIC) Oh, I do wish you'd said that. - (HUMPHREY) I'm sure you do.
- Sir Humphrey... - Oh, come along.
- What's this for? - The BBC have just sent me this tape.
Apparently, it's part of my interview. They say it's particularly interesting.
- Your interview? - You're surprised I said something interesting?
No, no, it's just that I thought you intended to say nothing, as always. I mean...
Switch it on, Bernard. You may learn something.
... Ludo, nobody tells the truth about unemployment.
- Why not? - Because everyone knows you can halve it...
Cut off all Social Security to all claimants who refuse two j'ob offers...
(WINDS TAPE FORWARD)
No politicians have got the guts to do anything.
Sir Humphrey, that wasn't you, was it?
- Yes, Bernard. - But how could you say such things?
Is there any more?
- Yes, Bernard. - As damaging as what we've just heard?
More damaging.
I believe I referred to... parasites.
- How could you be so indiscreet? - The interview was over!
- We were just chatting! It was off the record! - It was on the tape!
Oh, my God, I've just realised! Blackmail.
- Blackmail? - Read that.
"Here is a copy of your off-the-record part of the interview. Very interesting.
- "We will contact you shortly." - What do they want of me?
The BBC? Licence fee up 50%?
- Maybe it's a private blackmail by the producer. - Maybe.
Doesn't he know I'm a poor man?
Maybe he hasn't read you live in abject poverty on 81,000 a year.
- What am I going to do? - Keep your mouth shut in future.
And so must you! Don't breathe a word about this to anyone! Anyone!
- My duty to the... - (SPLUTTERS)
Oh, Bernard, what am I going to do?
Well, put out a press statement expressing sympathy for the unemployed.
- Sympathy? - You may be joining them any moment.
- Yes, Bernard? - Excuse me, are you busy?
I am. I'm expecting Humphrey. I've got to decide what to tell the Cabinet about this bugging.
Do I tell them the truth... or do I tell them what I told the House?
Perhaps you should behave to the Cabinet as you would expect them to behave to you.
You're quite right. I'll tell them what I've told the House.
(COUGHS SIGNIFICANTLY)
- Something else? - Yes, there is something you need to know.
- Need to know? - Yes, it's about Sir Humphrey's broadcast.
- Boring? - Initially, yes.
Then it livened up as he became more and more indiscreet.
Humphrey? Indiscreet?
He thought the broadcast was over. He was chatting, but the tape was still running.
- He fell for that old dodge? - Yes.
You should always treat every microphone as if it were live. Doesn't he know that?
- He hasn't done a lot of broadcasting. - What did he say?
We could halve unemployment, but the government hasn't the guts.
- What?! - He didn't know he was being recorded.
And the BBC has the original? You know what this means. All over the papers. Do something!
I already have. I had lunch with the producer. He and I were at Oxford together.
He never intended to release the tape,
so I got him to give me the indiscreet bit from the master tape.
This is the original?
Does Humphrey know you've got it?
- Shall I tell him? - Why?
- I think he'd like to know. - I'm sure he would.
But does he NEED to know?
Ah, somebody needs to know, but now you know, Sir Humphrey doesn't need to know.
You need to know Sir Humphrey doesn't know, but he doesn't need to know you know.
Thank you, Bernard, I couldn't have put it less clearly myself.
- Like to hear the tape? - Can you play this?
Oh, no, not that. I got him to give me a copy.
Oh, no, hold on a minute. I think this deserves a wider audience.
- I think Humphrey ought to hear this. - (BUZZER)
Yes?
Oh. It is Sir Humphrey.
What a happy coincidence. Ask him to join us, Bernard.
Will you hold on a moment? Prime Minister, I did tell you all this in confidence.
And I respect your confidence.
- This is serious, you know, Bernard. - Oh, er, yes, Prime Minister.
Sir Humphrey.
Ah, Humphrey, come in, come in, come in! (CHUCKLES)
- How did your broadcast go? - Oh, very well, very well.
- What did you say? - Oh, nothing in particular.
I pointed out some of the difficulties in allocating responsibilities
as between politicians and civil servants.
- But you were discreet? - Why do you ask?
- Were you or weren't you? - Yes.
- Yes, you were or yes, you weren't? - Yes.
- Humpy? - Wouldn't you expect me to be discreet?
- Of course. - There you are, then.
Good. Well, that's all right, then.
Why do you ask?
It's just that the BBC sent me a tape.
- A tape? What tape? - A tape of your broadcast.
I thought we might listen to it.
- No, no, no, no, no! - Why not?
- It isn't interesting. - Not interesting?
- The Cabinet Secretary talking to the nation? - Not VERY.
You mean you were too discreet?
Play it, would you, Bernard?
Nobody tells the truth about unemployment.
- Why not? - Because everyone knows you can halve it.
- How? - Cut off all Social Security
to all claimants who refuse two j'ob offers.
There's genuine unemployment...
- Humphrey! - I'm terribly sorry. I didn't know!
- The interview was over! - The indiscretion!
- The irresponsibility! Any more? - No.
- Yes. - Play it, Bernard.
... be off the register before you could say "parasite".
This country can have as much unemployment as it's prepared to pay for in Social Security.
- No politicians have the guts to do anything. - You said that?!
It was Mike Yarwood.
I'm in somewhat of a difficulty as to know what to do about this.
I need advice. Perhaps I ought to play it to the Cabinet, get their reaction.
- Oh, please! - Or the Privy Counsel.
- Or... Her Majesty? - Oh, God!
Do you realise what damage it would do if it got into the papers?
I could say I got it wrong! I've checked and it isn't true!
- But it is. - I could say it isn't!
- Nobody can prove it, it's never been tried! - You'd tell an untruth in public?
- Yes, for YOU! We can issue a clarification. - You've already made yourself very clear.
Prime Minister, a clarification is not to make oneself clear, it is to put oneself in the clear.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave.
Give me the tape, would you, Bernard? Now I've got something to tell you.
This is a copy,
but this is the original, the master.
- You mean... - They were retrieved from the BBC.
By whom?
Intelligence.
So... no one else will ever know?
That rather depends on what I choose to tell them.
Of course, I could just hand over the tapes or...
...I could hold onto them while I consider the security and disciplinary implications.
I certainly have no intention of joining "some shabby cover-up".
Oh, that reminds me, have you decided yet what you'll tell the Privileges Committee?
Oh, yes, yes, Prime Minister. I've decided that, in the interests of national security,
that, um, the only honourable course is to support your statement in the House.
And say that Hugh Halifax's phone has never been bugged?
- And say I have no evidence... - No!
And say the government has never authorised the bugging of MPs' phones.
And say... the government has never author... Supposing they find out the truth?
You'll just have to say that nobody told you
because you didn't need to know.
- Agreed? - (SIGHS)
Splendid. That's settled, then.
May one have one's tapes back?
Tomorrow.
After the Committee on Privileges. All right, Humphrey?
Yes, Prime Minister.