1 00:00:40,014 --> 00:00:43,609 Ah, Bernard, how is our great statesman this afternoon? 2 00:00:43,774 --> 00:00:47,164 - Very cheerful. - What has he found to be cheerful about? 3 00:00:47,334 --> 00:00:51,327 - Well, at Question Time he did very well. - In whose opinion? 4 00:00:51,494 --> 00:00:54,930 Everyone was impressed with his answer on tapping MPs' phones. 5 00:00:55,094 --> 00:00:59,724 - I heard about that, but regrettably not from you. - I didn't see any point. 6 00:00:59,894 --> 00:01:04,763 I coordinate all government security. Why was the question not referred to me first? 7 00:01:04,934 --> 00:01:09,485 - It was an unforeseen supplementary. - A foreseeable unforeseen supplementary. 8 00:01:09,654 --> 00:01:14,648 It was a good answer. "Much as I respect and value the opinions of this house, 9 00:01:14,814 --> 00:01:21,572 "I have no desire to listen to honourable members for any longer than I have to." Got a good laugh. 10 00:01:21,734 --> 00:01:24,123 - From you. - Yes, and from his own party. 11 00:01:24,294 --> 00:01:27,286 Ones hoping to be promoted or afraid of being sacked? 12 00:01:27,454 --> 00:01:29,843 That's just about all of them. 13 00:01:30,014 --> 00:01:34,530 I gather he denied that he'd authorised the bugging of an MP's phone. 14 00:01:34,694 --> 00:01:39,563 Well, yes. Well, he hasn't, has he? Has he? He has? Crikey! 15 00:01:40,294 --> 00:01:44,765 It's all here, Bernard, including the transcripts. Shall we... um... 16 00:01:44,934 --> 00:01:48,927 Can't we wait? He doesn't get many moments of unalloyed pleasure. 17 00:01:49,094 --> 00:01:51,085 I suppose he gets all he deserves. 18 00:01:52,174 --> 00:01:54,210 - Prime Minister. - Ah, come in! 19 00:01:54,374 --> 00:01:58,765 - I want to talk about PM's Question Time. - I accept your congratulations! 20 00:01:58,934 --> 00:02:03,530 - Wasn't I brilliant? Didn't you think so? - Well, I wasn't there, but... 21 00:02:03,694 --> 00:02:05,685 - Wasn't I brilliant, Bernard? - Er... 22 00:02:05,854 --> 00:02:10,086 - Your replies will not be quickly forgotten. - Let me tell you what happened. 23 00:02:10,254 --> 00:02:16,045 The first question was about that cock-up over the shortage of prison officers. Masterly reply! 24 00:02:16,214 --> 00:02:20,685 I said, "I refer the honourable member to the speech I made on October 28th." 25 00:02:20,854 --> 00:02:23,448 - Did he remember what you'd said? - No. 26 00:02:23,614 --> 00:02:26,811 Neither did I, come to that. Still, it shut him up. 27 00:02:26,974 --> 00:02:31,252 The next one was, "Did the Department of Employment fiddle the figures?" 28 00:02:31,414 --> 00:02:37,364 Restructure the base from which the statistics have been derived without telling the public? 29 00:02:37,534 --> 00:02:40,207 - Exactly. Fiddle the figures. - Of course they do. 30 00:02:40,374 --> 00:02:44,128 I know they do. I said I'd found no significant evidence of it. 31 00:02:44,294 --> 00:02:47,525 - You haven't looked. - And we haven't shown you. 32 00:02:47,694 --> 00:02:52,688 Well done. Then we went on to a googly about the Dept of Energy's plans for nuclear waste. 33 00:02:52,854 --> 00:02:56,449 - He wanted me to admit Cabinet was divided. - Well, it is. 34 00:02:56,614 --> 00:02:59,924 I know. So I said, "My cabinet took a unanimous decision." 35 00:03:00,094 --> 00:03:03,484 You threatened to dismiss anyone who wouldn't agree. 36 00:03:03,654 --> 00:03:06,646 It certainly made them agree unanimously. 37 00:03:06,814 --> 00:03:09,647 My back benchers were cheering my every word. 38 00:03:09,814 --> 00:03:14,524 Oh, yes, then we had a question about why our new anti-missile missile 39 00:03:14,694 --> 00:03:18,733 was scrapped as obsolete the day before it came off the production line. 40 00:03:18,894 --> 00:03:23,285 - And how did you wriggle out of that one? - That was my masterstroke! 41 00:03:23,454 --> 00:03:25,445 My reply was sheer genius. 42 00:03:25,614 --> 00:03:31,325 I said our policy had not been as effective as we'd hoped. Clearly we had got it wrong. 43 00:03:31,494 --> 00:03:34,486 - You admitted that? - Yeah. Brilliant! 44 00:03:34,654 --> 00:03:37,248 Took the wind right out of his sails! 45 00:03:40,614 --> 00:03:43,492 Honesty always gives you the advantage of surprise in the House of Commons. 46 00:03:43,654 --> 00:03:49,286 The PM was also asked when he would request the resignation from the responsible minister. 47 00:03:49,454 --> 00:03:53,447 I said, "When he makes a mistake that could've been seen at the time 48 00:03:53,614 --> 00:03:55,809 "and not with the benefit of hindsight." 49 00:03:55,974 --> 00:03:59,649 They were on their feet cheering, stamping, waving their order papers! 50 00:03:59,814 --> 00:04:03,727 I gather there was a question about the bugging of an MP's phone. 51 00:04:03,894 --> 00:04:07,682 - Yes, I got a terrific laugh with that. I said... - Bernard told me. 52 00:04:07,854 --> 00:04:10,687 - I said, "Much as I respect..." - Bernard told me. 53 00:04:10,854 --> 00:04:15,609 Oh. Well, anyway, that was stupid. Why should we bug Hugh Halifax's phone? 54 00:04:15,814 --> 00:04:19,523 One of my own administration! Where did they get such a daft idea? 55 00:04:19,694 --> 00:04:22,162 - Sheer paranoia. - The only thing is... 56 00:04:22,334 --> 00:04:26,532 Why should we listen in to MPs? Boring, stupid, ignorant windbags! 57 00:04:26,694 --> 00:04:28,889 I do my best not to listen to them. 58 00:04:29,054 --> 00:04:34,447 And he's only a PPS. I can't find out what's going on at Defence. What could he know? 59 00:04:34,614 --> 00:04:39,165 So I gather you denied that Mr Halifax's phone had been bugged? 60 00:04:39,334 --> 00:04:44,613 It was the one question to which I could give a clear, simple, straightforward, honest answer. 61 00:04:44,774 --> 00:04:49,609 Yes, unfortunately, although the answer was clear, simple and straightforward, 62 00:04:49,774 --> 00:04:56,168 it is difficult to justifiably assign to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement... 63 00:04:56,334 --> 00:05:00,930 ...inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated 64 00:05:01,094 --> 00:05:04,803 and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated 65 00:05:04,974 --> 00:05:08,284 is such as to cause epistemological problems 66 00:05:08,454 --> 00:05:13,767 of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language 67 00:05:13,934 --> 00:05:18,086 a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear. 68 00:05:18,254 --> 00:05:20,563 Epistemological? What are you talking about? 69 00:05:22,374 --> 00:05:24,763 You... told a lie. 70 00:05:25,894 --> 00:05:28,886 - A lie? - A lie. 71 00:05:29,054 --> 00:05:32,046 - What do you mean, a lie? - I mean, you... 72 00:05:33,414 --> 00:05:35,609 ...lied. 73 00:05:35,774 --> 00:05:39,767 I know this is a difficult concept to get across to a politician. 74 00:05:39,934 --> 00:05:41,890 You... er... (MUTTERS) 75 00:05:42,054 --> 00:05:44,204 Ah, yes, you did not tell the truth. 76 00:05:44,374 --> 00:05:46,251 We ARE bugging his phone? 77 00:05:46,414 --> 00:05:48,405 - We were. - When did we stop? 78 00:05:48,574 --> 00:05:51,646 Um... 17 minutes ago. 79 00:05:51,814 --> 00:05:56,092 - Well, you can't call that lying! - What is the opposite of telling the truth? 80 00:05:56,254 --> 00:06:00,611 I mean, there was no intent. I'd never knowingly mislead the House. 81 00:06:00,774 --> 00:06:05,211 - Nonetheless you have done so. - It wasn't my fault. I didn't know! 82 00:06:05,374 --> 00:06:09,731 - You are deemed to have known. - Why wasn't I told? 83 00:06:09,894 --> 00:06:13,284 The Home Secretary might not have felt the need to inform you. 84 00:06:13,454 --> 00:06:16,048 - Why? - Perhaps he didn't know either. 85 00:06:17,014 --> 00:06:20,404 Or perhaps he'd been advised that you did not need to know. 86 00:06:20,574 --> 00:06:23,372 - I did need to know. - The fact you needed to know 87 00:06:23,534 --> 00:06:27,527 was not known at the time that the now-known need to know was known. 88 00:06:27,694 --> 00:06:32,290 Those that needed to advise the Home Secretary felt that the information he needed 89 00:06:32,454 --> 00:06:35,924 as to whether to inform the highest authority was not yet known, 90 00:06:36,094 --> 00:06:39,131 so there was no authority for the authority to be informed 91 00:06:39,294 --> 00:06:42,331 because the need to know was not known or needed. 92 00:06:43,134 --> 00:06:45,125 What? 93 00:06:45,294 --> 00:06:50,129 - We could not know you'd deny it in the House. - I would if I didn't know and were asked. 94 00:06:50,294 --> 00:06:52,649 We did not know you'd be asked when you didn't know. 95 00:06:52,814 --> 00:06:56,807 I was bound to be asked when I didn't know if I didn't know! 96 00:06:56,974 --> 00:06:58,726 - What? - What? 97 00:06:59,494 --> 00:07:02,691 It was thought that it was better not to inform you. 98 00:07:02,854 --> 00:07:08,053 Halifax is one of your government team. It was thought it was better not to create distrust. 99 00:07:08,214 --> 00:07:11,411 - We only tell you when you should be aware. - When's that? 100 00:07:11,574 --> 00:07:14,327 You should now be aware because you've denied it. 101 00:07:14,494 --> 00:07:17,804 It would've been helpful if I'd been aware before I denied it. 102 00:07:17,974 --> 00:07:21,808 If you had been aware before you denied it, you wouldn't have denied it. 103 00:07:21,974 --> 00:07:26,013 - But I needed to know! - We do not always tell you about bugging. 104 00:07:26,174 --> 00:07:28,529 At times we need you not to know. 105 00:07:28,694 --> 00:07:31,288 - Why did you decide I didn't? - I didn't. 106 00:07:31,454 --> 00:07:35,606 - Who did? - Nobody. It was just nobody decided to tell you. 107 00:07:36,694 --> 00:07:39,003 - It's the same thing! - On the contrary. 108 00:07:39,174 --> 00:07:44,168 To decide to conceal information from you is a heavy burden for any official to shoulder, 109 00:07:44,334 --> 00:07:48,805 but to decide not to reveal information to you is routine procedure. 110 00:07:48,974 --> 00:07:51,329 Humphrey, I need to know everything. 111 00:07:51,494 --> 00:07:53,405 - Everything? - Everything. 112 00:07:55,014 --> 00:07:57,209 Very well. 113 00:07:57,374 --> 00:08:01,572 Stationery deliveries this week. Four dozen packets... 114 00:08:01,734 --> 00:08:06,330 No, Humphrey, Humphrey, don't be silly. I mean important things. 115 00:08:06,494 --> 00:08:09,486 Who should decide what is important? 116 00:08:10,574 --> 00:08:15,204 - How can you defend this cock-up? - As you said in the House, we got it wrong. 117 00:08:15,374 --> 00:08:20,573 - YOU got it wrong. - I am merely a humble servant, a lowly official. 118 00:08:20,734 --> 00:08:25,205 - The Home Secretary made the decision. - Any reason I shouldn't ask him to resign? 119 00:08:25,374 --> 00:08:28,684 You should only ask him to resign when he's made a mistake 120 00:08:28,854 --> 00:08:32,847 which could've been seen at the time and not with the benefit of hindsight. 121 00:08:33,454 --> 00:08:37,288 The trouble has arisen because of your error of judgement in making this denial. 122 00:08:37,454 --> 00:08:40,924 - What? - You shouldn't have denied what you didn't know. 123 00:08:41,094 --> 00:08:44,291 That was your fault. You admitted keeping secrets from me. 124 00:08:44,454 --> 00:08:48,652 The system works perfectly well as long as the PM tells the Civil Service 125 00:08:48,814 --> 00:08:51,408 everything he's going to say before he says it. 126 00:08:51,574 --> 00:08:57,171 Lf, precipitantly, he says something without first clearing it with us, he has only himself to blame. 127 00:08:57,334 --> 00:09:03,284 You must not say anything without clearing it. With respect, PM, you must learn discretion. 128 00:09:03,454 --> 00:09:08,164 - There was nothing to be discreet about! - There's always something to be discreet about. 129 00:09:08,334 --> 00:09:12,088 Anyway, why are we bugging Hugh Halifax? Is he talking to the Russians? 130 00:09:12,254 --> 00:09:15,485 No, the French, actually. That's much more serious. 131 00:09:16,694 --> 00:09:19,891 - Why? - The Russians already know what we're doing. 132 00:09:23,854 --> 00:09:28,325 But the French are our trusted allies, whatever you think of them. And who doesn't? 133 00:09:28,494 --> 00:09:33,090 No, Prime Minister, actually the French are our mistrusted allies. 134 00:09:33,254 --> 00:09:37,725 That is why talking directly to the French is regarded as an act of treason 135 00:09:37,894 --> 00:09:40,203 by the Foreign Office... who authorised it. 136 00:09:40,374 --> 00:09:43,764 - I don't know. - You... don't know what? 137 00:09:43,934 --> 00:09:48,086 - Who authorised it. Who authorised it? - Is there an echo? 138 00:09:48,254 --> 00:09:52,452 - Who authorised this bugging? - The Foreign Office! I've just said. 139 00:09:52,614 --> 00:09:57,051 Anyway, the less said the better. Wouldn't you agree, Prime Minister? 140 00:09:57,214 --> 00:10:00,923 - About what? - About everything. 141 00:10:04,614 --> 00:10:07,651 One cannot refuse to appear before a House committee. 142 00:10:07,814 --> 00:10:10,806 - No, sir. - One shall have to tell them everything. 143 00:10:10,974 --> 00:10:15,365 - Everything they can find out from other sources. - Precisely. 144 00:10:15,534 --> 00:10:21,325 But they are likely to ask me if the PM has ever authorised the bugging of an MP's telephone. 145 00:10:21,494 --> 00:10:24,645 So how should a loyal public servant reply? 146 00:10:24,814 --> 00:10:30,013 Er, you could say it was a question for the PM or the Foreign Secretary or the Home Office. 147 00:10:30,174 --> 00:10:33,052 Or it was a security matter - can't confirm or deny. 148 00:10:33,214 --> 00:10:37,207 If I dodge the question, do you know what the next question will be? 149 00:10:37,374 --> 00:10:42,846 Why will I not give the same clear denial that the PM gave the House yesterday? 150 00:10:43,014 --> 00:10:45,608 - Ah. - What should I say then, Bernard? 151 00:10:45,774 --> 00:10:49,767 Well, you could say the Prime Minister knows more about it than you do. 152 00:10:51,494 --> 00:10:54,327 Then they'd know I was lying. 153 00:10:55,454 --> 00:10:59,003 - So... what will you do? - I don't know, Bernard. 154 00:10:59,174 --> 00:11:02,166 I thought you should be aware of the dilemma. 155 00:11:02,334 --> 00:11:07,454 - Would you like a glass of sherry, Bernard? - Oh, yes, thank you. Sweet. 156 00:11:07,614 --> 00:11:09,605 There's only dry. 157 00:11:11,134 --> 00:11:14,604 Incidentally, Bernard, the BBC rang this morning. 158 00:11:14,774 --> 00:11:18,483 - The BBC know about it? - No, of course not. 159 00:11:18,654 --> 00:11:21,771 They want to interview me for a documentary 160 00:11:21,934 --> 00:11:25,324 they're making on Radio 3 about the structure of the government. 161 00:11:25,494 --> 00:11:27,689 Gosh. You won't do it, will you? 162 00:11:27,854 --> 00:11:30,493 - Why not? - They may want you to say things. 163 00:11:32,054 --> 00:11:34,363 That is quite normal on radio. 164 00:11:34,534 --> 00:11:38,288 No, no, I mean interesting things. Controversy. 165 00:11:39,294 --> 00:11:43,572 On the other hand, one has a duty to put the record straight. 166 00:11:43,734 --> 00:11:47,443 - You mean you want to do it? - Well, not for oneself, of course. 167 00:11:47,614 --> 00:11:51,368 No inclination for petty vanity, you know, being a celebrity. 168 00:11:51,534 --> 00:11:56,654 - But... one can be too self-effacing. - I thought we were supposed to be faceless. 169 00:11:56,814 --> 00:11:59,612 They don't show your face on radio. 170 00:11:59,774 --> 00:12:03,210 They've said if I don't do it, Arnold has said he would. 171 00:12:03,374 --> 00:12:05,763 Perhaps that would be better. 172 00:12:07,334 --> 00:12:10,326 Arnold? For myself, I would rather not do it. 173 00:12:10,494 --> 00:12:13,884 But one's sense of duty compels one to see that Arnold 174 00:12:14,054 --> 00:12:16,887 is not held up as an example of a top civil servant. 175 00:12:17,654 --> 00:12:22,250 You'll need clearance from the Prime Minister, but that won't be a problem. 176 00:12:22,414 --> 00:12:26,407 - How do you know? - Well, it's on Radio 3. Nobody'll be listening. 177 00:12:31,134 --> 00:12:33,329 - Ah, Prime Minister. - Humphrey. 178 00:12:33,494 --> 00:12:36,292 The Cabinet agenda, Prime Minister. 179 00:12:36,454 --> 00:12:38,843 - Is it today you do your interview? - Oh, yes. 180 00:12:39,014 --> 00:12:41,369 - Any problems? - Oh, no, no, no. 181 00:12:41,534 --> 00:12:45,322 I have some experience in dealing with difficult questions. 182 00:12:45,494 --> 00:12:50,887 If you're evasive or confusing on the radio, they edit you out. You've really got to say something. 183 00:12:51,054 --> 00:12:54,046 - Say something? - Something simple and interesting. 184 00:12:54,214 --> 00:12:56,682 Simple and interesting. 185 00:12:56,854 --> 00:13:02,087 Perhaps you could advise me, Prime Minister, particularly if the questions are aggressive. 186 00:13:02,254 --> 00:13:05,246 Even better. That puts listeners on your side. 187 00:13:05,414 --> 00:13:10,408 - I may have to answer them. - Why? You've never answered my questions. 188 00:13:10,574 --> 00:13:13,566 No, no, no, that's different, Prime Minister. 189 00:13:15,574 --> 00:13:19,408 Ludovic Kennedy might ask me some perceptive questions. 190 00:13:21,494 --> 00:13:25,612 His researchers mentioned that lots of people are interested to know 191 00:13:25,774 --> 00:13:28,493 why so much power is centralised in my hands. 192 00:13:28,654 --> 00:13:32,647 Lots of people? Hardly anybody's ever heard of you, Humphrey! 193 00:13:33,454 --> 00:13:38,926 - Perhaps they meant lots of Radio 3 listeners. - That's a contradiction in terms! 194 00:13:39,094 --> 00:13:44,293 If he does say that lots of people want to know the answer to that question, say, "Name six." 195 00:13:44,454 --> 00:13:49,084 That'll fix him. He'll never be able to remember more than two. 196 00:13:49,254 --> 00:13:52,052 Oh, excellent, Prime Minister. Any more tricks? 197 00:13:52,214 --> 00:13:55,411 Tricks, Humphrey? This is technique. 198 00:13:55,574 --> 00:14:01,570 Attack one word in the sentence. Like frequently. "Frequently? What do you mean, frequently?" 199 00:14:01,734 --> 00:14:06,933 Or attack the interviewer. "You've clearly never read the white paper, have you?" 200 00:14:07,094 --> 00:14:09,085 Or else ask your own question. 201 00:14:09,254 --> 00:14:13,293 "That was a very interesting question. Now let me ask you a question." See? 202 00:14:14,094 --> 00:14:16,244 Oh, thank you, Prime Minister. 203 00:14:17,814 --> 00:14:21,807 That reminds me, I have shortly to appear before the committee 204 00:14:21,974 --> 00:14:25,444 to answer questions about the alleged bugging of an MP's phone. 205 00:14:25,614 --> 00:14:31,166 Yes. Yes, Bernard told me. Well, you'll just have to confirm what I said in the House. 206 00:14:32,134 --> 00:14:35,524 - But that would be lying. - Well, nobody'd know. 207 00:14:37,454 --> 00:14:40,685 Oh, what a tangled web we weave. 208 00:14:41,774 --> 00:14:44,971 You must. Otherwise it'll look as though I was lying. 209 00:14:46,014 --> 00:14:48,050 Humphrey, you have a loyalty. 210 00:14:49,814 --> 00:14:52,248 To the truth. 211 00:14:52,414 --> 00:14:58,364 I'm sorry, Prime Minister, I cannot become involved in some shabby cover-up. 212 00:15:02,494 --> 00:15:08,091 Whereas there must be some element of shared responsibility for the governance of Britain, 213 00:15:08,254 --> 00:15:12,645 as between the legislators on the one hand and the administration on the other, 214 00:15:12,814 --> 00:15:18,810 the precise allocation of cause to consequence or agency to eventuality in any particular instance 215 00:15:18,974 --> 00:15:23,411 is invariably so complex as to be ultimately invalid if not irresponsible. 216 00:15:23,574 --> 00:15:26,372 I see, but could you be a bit more precise? 217 00:15:26,534 --> 00:15:30,322 How far is the Civil Service to blame for the level of unemployment? 218 00:15:30,494 --> 00:15:33,372 Yes, of course, unemployment is a single name applied by the media 219 00:15:34,494 --> 00:15:37,691 to what is a wide range of socio-economic phenomena 220 00:15:37,854 --> 00:15:41,324 whose most politically visible manifestation happens to be... 221 00:15:41,494 --> 00:15:46,124 - Could you be a little bit more precise... - I'm so sorry, Mr Kennedy. 222 00:15:46,294 --> 00:15:50,082 You've asked me the question. Do allow me to answer it. 223 00:15:50,254 --> 00:15:53,052 There happens to be a current frequency 224 00:15:53,214 --> 00:15:57,412 of weekly registrations on the National Unemployment Register 225 00:15:57,574 --> 00:16:01,772 which is deemed to be above what has been held to be an acceptable level. 226 00:16:01,934 --> 00:16:07,167 But even separating out the component causes, let alone allocating responsibility for them, 227 00:16:07,334 --> 00:16:09,928 is a task of such analytical delicacy 228 00:16:10,094 --> 00:16:15,691 as not to be susceptible of compression within the confines of a popular radio programme. 229 00:16:15,854 --> 00:16:19,767 Sir Humphrey Appleby, thank you very much. 230 00:16:19,934 --> 00:16:25,406 If that was a popular programme, what would an unpopular programme be like? 231 00:16:25,574 --> 00:16:28,566 Thank you, Sir Humphrey. Absolutely splendid. 232 00:16:28,734 --> 00:16:32,249 My pleasure. Was I all right? 233 00:16:32,414 --> 00:16:35,611 Couldn't you have said a bit more about unemployment? 234 00:16:35,774 --> 00:16:38,971 - Such as? - Well... the truth. 235 00:16:39,134 --> 00:16:41,694 - (HUMPHREY LAUGHS) - Why do you laugh? 236 00:16:41,854 --> 00:16:46,325 Oh, my dear Ludo, nobody tells the truth about unemployment. 237 00:16:46,494 --> 00:16:49,804 - Why not? - Because everybody knows you can halve it. 238 00:16:49,974 --> 00:16:52,568 - But how? - Cut off all Social Security 239 00:16:52,734 --> 00:16:55,328 to any claimant who refuses two job offers. 240 00:16:55,494 --> 00:16:59,885 There's genuine unemployment in the north, but the south is awash with layabouts, 241 00:17:00,054 --> 00:17:03,649 many of them graduates living off the dole and housing benefit 242 00:17:03,814 --> 00:17:07,170 plus quite a lot of cash they pick up without telling anybody. 243 00:17:07,334 --> 00:17:10,804 - You mean moonlighting? - Well, sunlighting, really. 244 00:17:10,974 --> 00:17:16,446 Most employers will tell you they're short-staffed, but offer the unemployed a street-sweeping job, 245 00:17:16,614 --> 00:17:20,323 they'd be off the register before you could say "parasite". 246 00:17:20,494 --> 00:17:25,488 This country can have as much unemployment as it's prepared to pay for in Social Security. 247 00:17:25,654 --> 00:17:28,566 No politicians have got the guts to do anything. 248 00:17:28,734 --> 00:17:32,727 - (LUDOVIC) Oh, I do wish you'd said that. - (HUMPHREY) I'm sure you do. 249 00:17:37,974 --> 00:17:40,169 - Sir Humphrey... - Oh, come along. 250 00:17:40,334 --> 00:17:43,531 - What's this for? - The BBC have just sent me this tape. 251 00:17:43,694 --> 00:17:49,564 Apparently, it's part of my interview. They say it's particularly interesting. 252 00:17:50,574 --> 00:17:54,772 - Your interview? - You're surprised I said something interesting? 253 00:17:54,934 --> 00:18:00,531 No, no, it's just that I thought you intended to say nothing, as always. I mean... 254 00:18:00,694 --> 00:18:03,766 Switch it on, Bernard. You may learn something. 255 00:18:06,294 --> 00:18:09,491 ... Ludo, nobody tells the truth about unemployment. 256 00:18:09,654 --> 00:18:13,806 - Why not? - Because everyone knows you can halve it... 257 00:18:14,814 --> 00:18:19,569 Cut off all Social Security to all claimants who refuse two j'ob offers... 258 00:18:19,734 --> 00:18:22,726 (WINDS TAPE FORWARD) 259 00:18:22,894 --> 00:18:26,443 No politicians have got the guts to do anything. 260 00:18:27,494 --> 00:18:30,486 Sir Humphrey, that wasn't you, was it? 261 00:18:31,614 --> 00:18:35,607 - Yes, Bernard. - But how could you say such things? 262 00:18:35,774 --> 00:18:37,765 Is there any more? 263 00:18:46,454 --> 00:18:50,003 - Yes, Bernard. - As damaging as what we've just heard? 264 00:18:52,014 --> 00:18:54,323 More damaging. 265 00:18:54,494 --> 00:18:57,292 I believe I referred to... parasites. 266 00:18:57,454 --> 00:19:00,924 - How could you be so indiscreet? - The interview was over! 267 00:19:01,094 --> 00:19:04,848 - We were just chatting! It was off the record! - It was on the tape! 268 00:19:06,214 --> 00:19:10,093 Oh, my God, I've just realised! Blackmail. 269 00:19:10,254 --> 00:19:12,688 - Blackmail? - Read that. 270 00:19:12,854 --> 00:19:17,689 "Here is a copy of your off-the-record part of the interview. Very interesting. 271 00:19:17,854 --> 00:19:21,529 - "We will contact you shortly." - What do they want of me? 272 00:19:21,694 --> 00:19:24,686 The BBC? Licence fee up 50%? 273 00:19:26,094 --> 00:19:29,689 - Maybe it's a private blackmail by the producer. - Maybe. 274 00:19:29,854 --> 00:19:32,573 Doesn't he know I'm a poor man? 275 00:19:32,734 --> 00:19:36,522 Maybe he hasn't read you live in abject poverty on 81,000 a year. 276 00:19:41,054 --> 00:19:44,649 - What am I going to do? - Keep your mouth shut in future. 277 00:19:44,814 --> 00:19:49,285 And so must you! Don't breathe a word about this to anyone! Anyone! 278 00:19:49,454 --> 00:19:52,446 - My duty to the... - (SPLUTTERS) 279 00:19:55,534 --> 00:19:57,729 Oh, Bernard, what am I going to do? 280 00:19:57,894 --> 00:20:02,206 Well, put out a press statement expressing sympathy for the unemployed. 281 00:20:02,694 --> 00:20:05,686 - Sympathy? - You may be joining them any moment. 282 00:20:14,774 --> 00:20:17,607 - Yes, Bernard? - Excuse me, are you busy? 283 00:20:17,774 --> 00:20:23,644 I am. I'm expecting Humphrey. I've got to decide what to tell the Cabinet about this bugging. 284 00:20:23,814 --> 00:20:27,489 Do I tell them the truth... or do I tell them what I told the House? 285 00:20:27,654 --> 00:20:33,206 Perhaps you should behave to the Cabinet as you would expect them to behave to you. 286 00:20:34,214 --> 00:20:37,604 You're quite right. I'll tell them what I've told the House. 287 00:20:38,574 --> 00:20:40,565 (COUGHS SIGNIFICANTLY) 288 00:20:40,734 --> 00:20:44,010 - Something else? - Yes, there is something you need to know. 289 00:20:44,694 --> 00:20:48,448 - Need to know? - Yes, it's about Sir Humphrey's broadcast. 290 00:20:49,934 --> 00:20:52,528 - Boring? - Initially, yes. 291 00:20:52,694 --> 00:20:56,050 Then it livened up as he became more and more indiscreet. 292 00:20:56,214 --> 00:20:58,250 Humphrey? Indiscreet? 293 00:20:58,414 --> 00:21:02,805 He thought the broadcast was over. He was chatting, but the tape was still running. 294 00:21:02,974 --> 00:21:05,169 - He fell for that old dodge? - Yes. 295 00:21:05,334 --> 00:21:09,646 You should always treat every microphone as if it were live. Doesn't he know that? 296 00:21:09,814 --> 00:21:13,204 - He hasn't done a lot of broadcasting. - What did he say? 297 00:21:13,374 --> 00:21:17,492 We could halve unemployment, but the government hasn't the guts. 298 00:21:17,654 --> 00:21:22,011 - What?! - He didn't know he was being recorded. 299 00:21:22,174 --> 00:21:28,693 And the BBC has the original? You know what this means. All over the papers. Do something! 300 00:21:28,854 --> 00:21:33,405 I already have. I had lunch with the producer. He and I were at Oxford together. 301 00:21:33,574 --> 00:21:35,963 He never intended to release the tape, 302 00:21:36,134 --> 00:21:40,173 so I got him to give me the indiscreet bit from the master tape. 303 00:21:41,014 --> 00:21:43,005 This is the original? 304 00:21:45,174 --> 00:21:48,052 Does Humphrey know you've got it? 305 00:21:54,694 --> 00:21:57,413 - Shall I tell him? - Why? 306 00:21:58,974 --> 00:22:02,171 - I think he'd like to know. - I'm sure he would. 307 00:22:02,334 --> 00:22:04,723 But does he NEED to know? 308 00:22:05,774 --> 00:22:10,245 Ah, somebody needs to know, but now you know, Sir Humphrey doesn't need to know. 309 00:22:10,414 --> 00:22:15,568 You need to know Sir Humphrey doesn't know, but he doesn't need to know you know. 310 00:22:15,734 --> 00:22:19,249 Thank you, Bernard, I couldn't have put it less clearly myself. 311 00:22:19,414 --> 00:22:22,212 - Like to hear the tape? - Can you play this? 312 00:22:22,374 --> 00:22:25,764 Oh, no, not that. I got him to give me a copy. 313 00:22:25,934 --> 00:22:30,405 Oh, no, hold on a minute. I think this deserves a wider audience. 314 00:22:30,574 --> 00:22:33,964 - I think Humphrey ought to hear this. - (BUZZER) 315 00:22:35,774 --> 00:22:37,093 Yes? 316 00:22:37,254 --> 00:22:39,927 Oh. It is Sir Humphrey. 317 00:22:40,094 --> 00:22:43,848 What a happy coincidence. Ask him to join us, Bernard. 318 00:22:44,014 --> 00:22:49,725 Will you hold on a moment? Prime Minister, I did tell you all this in confidence. 319 00:22:49,894 --> 00:22:52,124 And I respect your confidence. 320 00:22:55,094 --> 00:22:59,849 - This is serious, you know, Bernard. - Oh, er, yes, Prime Minister. 321 00:23:05,454 --> 00:23:07,445 Sir Humphrey. 322 00:23:07,614 --> 00:23:11,209 Ah, Humphrey, come in, come in, come in! (CHUCKLES) 323 00:23:12,214 --> 00:23:16,048 - How did your broadcast go? - Oh, very well, very well. 324 00:23:16,774 --> 00:23:19,811 - What did you say? - Oh, nothing in particular. 325 00:23:19,974 --> 00:23:24,252 I pointed out some of the difficulties in allocating responsibilities 326 00:23:24,414 --> 00:23:27,326 as between politicians and civil servants. 327 00:23:27,494 --> 00:23:31,123 - But you were discreet? - Why do you ask? 328 00:23:31,294 --> 00:23:33,285 - Were you or weren't you? - Yes. 329 00:23:33,454 --> 00:23:36,412 - Yes, you were or yes, you weren't? - Yes. 330 00:23:36,574 --> 00:23:40,283 - Humpy? - Wouldn't you expect me to be discreet? 331 00:23:40,454 --> 00:23:43,252 - Of course. - There you are, then. 332 00:23:43,414 --> 00:23:45,484 Good. Well, that's all right, then. 333 00:23:47,734 --> 00:23:49,531 Why do you ask? 334 00:23:49,694 --> 00:23:52,288 It's just that the BBC sent me a tape. 335 00:23:54,894 --> 00:23:57,931 - A tape? What tape? - A tape of your broadcast. 336 00:23:58,094 --> 00:24:00,130 I thought we might listen to it. 337 00:24:00,294 --> 00:24:02,603 - No, no, no, no, no! - Why not? 338 00:24:02,774 --> 00:24:04,969 - It isn't interesting. - Not interesting? 339 00:24:05,134 --> 00:24:08,490 - The Cabinet Secretary talking to the nation? - Not VERY. 340 00:24:08,654 --> 00:24:11,612 You mean you were too discreet? 341 00:24:11,774 --> 00:24:14,083 Play it, would you, Bernard? 342 00:24:14,254 --> 00:24:17,007 Nobody tells the truth about unemployment. 343 00:24:17,174 --> 00:24:20,769 - Why not? - Because everyone knows you can halve it. 344 00:24:20,934 --> 00:24:23,528 - How? - Cut off all Social Security 345 00:24:23,694 --> 00:24:26,606 to all claimants who refuse two j'ob offers. 346 00:24:26,774 --> 00:24:28,765 There's genuine unemployment... 347 00:24:28,934 --> 00:24:31,926 - Humphrey! - I'm terribly sorry. I didn't know! 348 00:24:32,094 --> 00:24:35,291 - The interview was over! - The indiscretion! 349 00:24:35,454 --> 00:24:37,604 - The irresponsibility! Any more? - No. 350 00:24:37,774 --> 00:24:40,971 - Yes. - Play it, Bernard. 351 00:24:41,134 --> 00:24:44,683 ... be off the register before you could say "parasite". 352 00:24:44,854 --> 00:24:49,882 This country can have as much unemployment as it's prepared to pay for in Social Security. 353 00:24:50,054 --> 00:24:54,332 - No politicians have the guts to do anything. - You said that?! 354 00:24:56,894 --> 00:24:58,885 It was Mike Yarwood. 355 00:25:04,014 --> 00:25:07,768 I'm in somewhat of a difficulty as to know what to do about this. 356 00:25:07,934 --> 00:25:12,086 I need advice. Perhaps I ought to play it to the Cabinet, get their reaction. 357 00:25:12,254 --> 00:25:14,722 - Oh, please! - Or the Privy Counsel. 358 00:25:14,894 --> 00:25:18,682 - Or... Her Majesty? - Oh, God! 359 00:25:18,854 --> 00:25:22,642 Do you realise what damage it would do if it got into the papers? 360 00:25:22,814 --> 00:25:26,409 I could say I got it wrong! I've checked and it isn't true! 361 00:25:26,574 --> 00:25:28,565 - But it is. - I could say it isn't! 362 00:25:28,734 --> 00:25:32,966 - Nobody can prove it, it's never been tried! - You'd tell an untruth in public? 363 00:25:33,134 --> 00:25:39,482 - Yes, for YOU! We can issue a clarification. - You've already made yourself very clear. 364 00:25:39,654 --> 00:25:45,092 Prime Minister, a clarification is not to make oneself clear, it is to put oneself in the clear. 365 00:25:45,974 --> 00:25:48,090 Oh, what a tangled web we weave. 366 00:25:50,214 --> 00:25:55,163 Give me the tape, would you, Bernard? Now I've got something to tell you. 367 00:25:55,334 --> 00:25:57,131 This is a copy, 368 00:25:57,294 --> 00:26:01,492 but this is the original, the master. 369 00:26:01,654 --> 00:26:04,612 - You mean... - They were retrieved from the BBC. 370 00:26:05,414 --> 00:26:07,211 By whom? 371 00:26:08,374 --> 00:26:10,444 Intelligence. 372 00:26:11,094 --> 00:26:13,528 So... no one else will ever know? 373 00:26:13,694 --> 00:26:16,731 That rather depends on what I choose to tell them. 374 00:26:16,894 --> 00:26:20,887 Of course, I could just hand over the tapes or... 375 00:26:21,854 --> 00:26:27,565 ...I could hold onto them while I consider the security and disciplinary implications. 376 00:26:27,734 --> 00:26:31,568 I certainly have no intention of joining "some shabby cover-up". 377 00:26:32,374 --> 00:26:37,368 Oh, that reminds me, have you decided yet what you'll tell the Privileges Committee? 378 00:26:37,534 --> 00:26:42,927 Oh, yes, yes, Prime Minister. I've decided that, in the interests of national security, 379 00:26:43,094 --> 00:26:47,770 that, um, the only honourable course is to support your statement in the House. 380 00:26:47,934 --> 00:26:51,529 And say that Hugh Halifax's phone has never been bugged? 381 00:26:51,694 --> 00:26:54,049 - And say I have no evidence... - No! 382 00:26:54,214 --> 00:26:58,844 And say the government has never authorised the bugging of MPs' phones. 383 00:26:59,014 --> 00:27:04,372 And say... the government has never author... Supposing they find out the truth? 384 00:27:04,534 --> 00:27:07,844 You'll just have to say that nobody told you 385 00:27:08,014 --> 00:27:11,211 because you didn't need to know. 386 00:27:11,374 --> 00:27:13,524 - Agreed? - (SIGHS) 387 00:27:13,694 --> 00:27:15,685 Splendid. That's settled, then. 388 00:27:16,294 --> 00:27:18,854 May one have one's tapes back? 389 00:27:22,654 --> 00:27:24,451 Tomorrow. 390 00:27:26,094 --> 00:27:29,848 After the Committee on Privileges. All right, Humphrey? 391 00:27:31,414 --> 00:27:33,405 Yes, Prime Minister.